Attendance Down, Revenue Up

[Tekneek]

That's not necessarily imagineerings fault. That is that individual parks managements fault.

I know all of that, but it doesn't change much from a guest experience point of view. Either it works as intended or it does not. My point being that Imagineering making mind-blowing attractions that the parks division won't (or cannot, as has been the case for some wonderful attractions from the past) maintain is simply wasted effort and only creates new problems.

 

[rteetz]

I actually know that, just was pointing out "former" imagineers. But heck yea like I say that is awesome and I love that.

Either way, US/IOA and the rest are way behind WDW in M&G's, live shows and night shows.

Maybe the funds will be released and the shackles removed one day. I hope so.

Funds at universal aren't the problem. Look at where universal is located they can't put on a nightly fireworks spectacular because of that. As for meet and greets they don't really have lovable characters that everyone wants to meet. Universal is rather focused on creating amazing experiences like potter or Kong than nighttime shows.

 

[rteetz]

I know all of that, but it doesn't change much from a guest experience point of view. Either it works as intended or it does not. My point being that Imagineering making mind-blowing attractions that the parks division won't (or cannot, as has been the case for some wonderful attractions from the past) maintain is simply wasted effort and only creates new problems.

We here on the disboards aren't the average WDW guest. We might notice of something is not working but that average or first time guest isn't going to know the difference. Imagineering and the parks division work together they aren't separate. Imagineers work on the refurbs. Everything tends to wear out or breakdown after a while.

 

[jade1]

Funds at universal aren't the problem. Look at where universal is located they can't put on a nightly fireworks spectacular because of that. As for meet and greets they don't really have lovable characters that everyone wants to meet.

Now your getting it.

Although they could easily have a World of Color or ROL type show.

And if funds aren't a problem, why does it close so early so often?

I would think thrill junkies would tend to be later hours (think teens and early twenties) and I have been to HP in the dark a few times and its awesome.

 

[jade1]

We here on the disboards aren't the average WDW guest. We might notice of something is not working but that average or first time guest isn't going to know the difference. Imagineering and the parks division work together they aren't separate. Imagineers work on the refurbs. Everything tends to wear out or breakdown after a while.

And some times its no fault of their own.

Dueling Dragons was far better when the "dueled" at the same time, but as Dragon Challenge they send them off staggered.

 

[rteetz]

Now your getting it.

Although they could easily have a World of Color or ROL type show.

And if funds aren't a problem, why does it close so early so often?

I would think thrill junkies would tend to be later hours (think teens and early twenties) and I have been to HP in the dark a few times and its awesome.

They close early because people buy them out for the night. They also have special events like grad nights where they close to the general guest early. For example the Dis rented out diagonal alley last year for their disapalooza event.

 

[rteetz]

And some times its no fault of their own.

Dueling Dragons was far better when the "dueled" at the same time, but as Dragon Challenge they send them off staggered.

I wasn't talking about universal...

We are getting far too off topic so I'm going to stop.

 

[jade1]

They close early because people buy them out for the night. They also have special events like grad nights where they close to the general guest early. For example the Dis rented out diagonal alley last year for their disapalooza event.

Interesting, in the last month IOA closed at 6PM 6 times and 7PM 23 times. Lots of buyouts I guess.

Skipped a response on a ROL WOC type show, hmm.

 

[jade1]

I wasn't talking about universal...

We are getting far too off topic so I'm going to stop.

Sorry, I just meant it's not always imagineers faults at either park (I know they are not called imagineers at US by the way).

 

[rteetz]

Interesting, in the last month IOA closed at 6PM 6 times and 7PM 23 times. Lots of buyouts I guess.

I'm not saying that's the case every time but often it is.

 

[jade1]

I'm not saying that's the case every time but often it is.

Not sure how "often" but I doubt that much (certainly hope not), either way they sell the night to someone else-not a great excuse to a regular guest IMO if its almost every night the last month and minimal other options for guests. WDW gives more options on party nights.

 

[Tekneek]

We here on the disboards aren't the average WDW guest. We might notice of something is not working but that average or first time guest isn't going to know the difference. Imagineering and the parks division work together they aren't separate. Imagineers work on the refurbs.

Relying on the guest's ability to notice is setting a pretty low bar. Interesting how you swung from "not Imagineering's fault" to "they work together." So, they are equally to blame for the successes and the failures. They both share the blame for a Yeti that hasn't moved in almost eight years or so. They both share the blame for a Splash Mountain that is always amazing coming out of refurb and then has pieces stop working months later (if they keep going that long). Amazing attraction, and one of my favorites of all time, but it is a somewhat rare experience to see it all operating the way it was meant to be. The original attraction at Imagination was also amazing, when it was actually running properly.

DisneySea is so amazing because of The Oriental Land Company. They don't mind paying top dollar for design and maintaining what they are given.

 

[rteetz]

Relying on the guest's ability to notice is setting a pretty low bar. Interesting how you swung from "not Imagineering's fault" to "they work together." So, they are equally to blame for the successes and the failures. They both share the blame for a Yeti that hasn't moved in almost eight years or so. They both share the blame for a Splash Mountain that is always amazing coming out of refurb and then has pieces stop working months later (if they keep going that long). Amazing attraction, and one of my favorites of all time, but it is a somewhat rare experience to see it all operating the way it was meant to be. The original attraction at Imagination was also amazing, when it was actually running properly.

DisneySea is so amazing because of The Oriental Land Company. They don't mind paying top dollar for design and maintaining what they are given.

They do work together though. Imagineering is included in the parks and resorts division they aren't seperate.

The disboards and Disney fan community is not the majority. They are going to notice when something isn't working or isn't right. The average guest though isn't necessarily going to know the different if say an animatronic in splash mountain is working or not. That's not my opinion that's what Disney thinks about the average guest.

It's not imagineerings fault if Disney management won't close a ride to fix something.

DisneySea yes is owned by OLC and they know how to properly invest in their parks and it shows. Those two parks are some of the most visited in the world if not the most (I've seen numbers that TDL is actually above MK). Imagineering is still in charge of details and theming there though.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I personally know some characters, and they would come through this computer right now if they knew anybody was this narrow minded and insulting.

WDW has this M&G as well now, only a better themed area:



Again, "fireworks". What about Fantasmic and live shows?

And why are the "fireworks" shows always packed if its just me?

Simplistic is just wanting thrill rides.

I'm sure your character friends are real violent types (kidding)

I'm not in anyway taking away from what they do/contribute...

I'm criticizing the conglomerate that has become over reliant/exploitive of them due to the low cost reality of it.

And shows are great...but good god, they ride them for far too long...nearly to oblivion.

Fantasmic was really cool when i first saw it...that was 17 years ago...same with illuminations 2.0.

It just stretches on into oblivion. And you're defense is the tired pro-Disney stance: "can't get this anywhere else"

Well...there are things you can't get at WDW now too: namely any attempt to recognize evolving tastes in entertainment and recognition as a valued consumer/customer beyond a box in MS Excel in Burbank somewhere.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

They do work together though. Imagineering is included in the parks and resorts division they aren't seperate.

The disboards and Disney fan community is not the majority. They are going to notice when something isn't working or isn't right. The average guest though isn't necessarily going to know the different if say an animatronic in splash mountain is working or not. That's not my opinion that's what Disney thinks about the average guest.

It's not imagineerings fault if Disney management won't close a ride to fix something.

DisneySea yes is owned by OLC and they know how to properly invest in their parks and it shows. Those two parks are some of the most visited in the world if not the most (I've seen numbers that TDL is actually above MK). Imagineering is still in charge of details and theming there though.

The more time goes on...the more I think imagineering IS the problem...not the antidote.

It's possible that it's irrevocably broken.

 

[rteetz]

The more time goes on...the more I think imagineering IS the problem...not the antidote.

It's possible that it's irrevocably broken.

How so? They don't make the decisions Burbank does.

Look I'll admit that yes imagineering is spending crazy and can't do many things on a reasonable budget but they do some great things when it comes down too it.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The Creative team at Universal (they aren't called imagineers) is actually made up of a lot of former Disney imagineers. Universal almost went on a poaching spree and got a lot of former Disney imagineers around the time they got the potter rights.

That's on Eisner and continues with CMB...

But in order to be "poached"...there has to be conditions for it to happen. And that is Disneys fault.

The reality that most casual observers or non former employee don't get is this: Disney staff is low paid for the money they pull in as a unit. They've had it that way and they want to exploit it more.

Very much at parks. For every 1 server a chef mickeys that makes $85,000 pouring juice - there are dozens of managers who bust tail making $30,000...or thousands of college program ("interns" that are really just indentured servants) that are subsidized by the federal government down to almost nothing for Disney due to "education"' and "jobs" programs.

Same with creative...they want more at lower or stagnant wages. That used to be offset by the name and benefits - but those were taken down to American bloodsucker levels long ago and the name is just a name anymore.

They keep increasing prices and they'll blame "costs"...but that's a complete lie. It's not going to wages - it's being drained to the California teachers pension funds hedge managers...

...and that's why Iger has got to go. It's time, Skippy.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Look I'll admit that yes imagineering is spending crazy and can't do many things on a reasonable budget

You answered your own question there

 

[rteetz]

You answered your own question there

That doesn't mean its imagineerings fault that the Orlando parks have been stagnant. I think you could possibly place some blame on them for Shanghai but that's what happens when you get in bed with China.

 

[rteetz]

and that's why Iger has got to go. It's time, Skippy.

I agree but people including the board love him, we can only hope his contract isn't extended and that they find someone outside the company that doesn't make things worse.