Attendance Down, Revenue Up

[jade1]

How doesn't enchanted tales have a theme?

Exactly.

Gaston has a great spot as well, and he is awesome.

Which is just down from Arial's Grotto in the LM attraction.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

There should be a shopping element and a meet and greet is likely as well. Most are unsure if there will be any dining element whether it just be snacks or quick service.

I do try to be fair...but it's leaning towards very underwhelming.

If it's simply an innings eater...I'm ok with that.

But then they need two new whoppers to follow.

 

[dreiwhit]

That is a completely flawed business model in every sense. If your target audience is the general public, you never want to alienate half of them. If you make toilet paper, you can't charge double and hope that half your customers will continue buying.

I agree. My own experience was with an insurance company I had used for homeowners/renters insurance for 20 years (and auto, until they went up.) I got a letter from them saying that unless I listed my autos with them and spent more money, they were canceling my homeowners policy. What did I do? I went with another company for homeowners and dropped them. I later got a letter from the new CEO (the old one was fired) begging me to come back. I never did. From inside knowledge, the insurance company is still trying to build its customer base back to the level it was before their stupid move.

The danger to Disney is that if you make enough people mad, or make enough people think they aren't getting their money's worth, you will lose customers that may never come back. IMHO, running off current and potential customers is never a good business solution, but it drives me up a wall that many companies don't have a problem with that!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Exactly.

Gaston has a great spot as well, and he is awesome.

Which is just down from Arial's Grotto in the LM attraction.

You really need to get over the character fetish...I mean...we get it.

Running somebody out in a costume making $9.50 an hour with a queue isn't groundbreaking, high quality entertainment.

That combined with the fireworks obsession makes your opinions look very simplistic.

And you're better than that...honestly.

It's more of a technology world everyday...Disney has to compete in it. This isn't much of a breaking story...at least not fall behind. If not they should sell the parks/shut them down.

 

[rteetz]

I do try to be fair...but it's leaning towards very underwhelming.

If it's simply an innings eater...I'm ok with that.

But then they need two new whoppers to follow.

I don't think toy story is supposed to be overwhelming. DHS needs things to do and this is one of those things they need. It also offers family attractions which is something DHS also lacks. They want to go for overwhelming with Star Wars.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I don't think toy story is supposed to be overwhelming. DHS needs things to do and this is one of those things they need. It also offers family attractions which is something DHS also lacks. They want to go for overwhelming with Star Wars.

It's for crowd control, which is needed badly.

 

[jade1]

You really need to get over the character fetish...I mean...we get it.

Running somebody out in a costume making $9.50 an hour with a queue isn't groundbreaking, high quality entertainment.

That combined with the fireworks obsession makes your opinions look very simplistic.

And you're better than that...honestly.

It's more of a technology world everyday...Disney has to compete in it. This isn't much of a breaking story...at least not fall behind. If not they should sell the parks/shut them down.

"We get it"? One person actually said there is not much separation at WDW in M&G's, live shows and night shows because....wait for it....some people working at US used to work at WDW. Oooookay.

M&G's are a big draw for many visitors, that's all I'm saying.

But I noticed you latched on the M&G's.

What about live shows and night shows? No theming there? No gap separation there?

Point is do "any" of these "categories have importance to WDW guests?

Do any of these categories add theme to a park experience?

Are any of these non ride attractions more important than rides to many WDW guests, at least on a case by case basis?

Regardless WDW has a wide lead in these categories.

 

[jade1]

Running somebody out in a costume making $9.50 an hour with a queue isn't groundbreaking, high quality entertainment.

I personally know some characters, and they would come through this computer right now if they knew anybody was this narrow minded and insulting.

WDW has this M&G as well now, only a better themed area:

That combined with the fireworks obsession makes your opinions look very simplistic.

Again, "fireworks". What about Fantasmic and live shows?

And why are the "fireworks" shows always packed if its just me?

Simplistic is just wanting thrill rides.

 

[Tekneek]

The business management model of fee/rate increases and service cutbacks is a recipe for failure. Management hopes to somehow keep the ball rolling until they check out, knowing that it is inevitable that it will catch up with the company (and be somebody else's cross to bear). Unfortunately for Iger, it seems it may have caught up with them sooner than he had hoped.

 

[JimmyV]

One person actually said there is not much separation at WDW in M&G's, live shows and night shows because....wait for it....some people working at US used to work at WDW. Oooookay.

And those people built Hogsmeade and Diagon Alley. By any measure, those are the best themed areas of any amusement park ever built. And yet you insist that Disney has separation over the best of the best. Do you think that Toy Story land is going to match those areas? Do you think that Gaston's Tavern and gift shop, cute as they are, create separation from Diagon Alley? Not through any lens other than Disney Goggles. Cars Land is great. No argument there. But it is mostly visual, (which at this point, I will take). The main attraction there is well done too. Even though it is just a Test Track redux, I won't complain. But the other attractions have a distinct "Dinoland quality" about them. Nevertheless, guess what? DLR has seen an increase in attendance. Coincidence? I think not.

 

[luisov]

And those people built Hogsmeade and Diagon Alley. By any measure, those are the best themed areas of any amusement park ever built. And yet you insist that Disney has separation over the best of the best. Do you think that Toy Story land is going to match those areas? Do you think that Gaston's Tavern and gift shop, cute as they are, create separation from Diagon Alley? Not through any lens other than Disney Goggles. Cars Land is great. No argument there. But it is mostly visual, (which at this point, I will take). The main attraction there is well done too. Even though it is just a Test Track redux, I won't complain. But the other attractions have a distinct "Dinoland quality" about them. Nevertheless, guess what? DLR has seen an increase in attendance. Coincidence? I think not.

Well, you could argue neither Hogsmeade nor Diagon Alley were created by the Universal team. The experiences were. Everything else was created by the people who actually made the movies. Almost every single piece of theming you see was previously designed for the movies, which was a really clever move from Universal, don't get me wrong.

If you are looking for true Imagineering magic, it's called DisneySea.

 

[rteetz]

If you are looking for true Imagineering magic, it's called DisneySea.

Agreed 100%. I think one could argue some of AK is true imagineering magic as well.

 

[jade1]

And those people built Hogsmeade and Diagon Alley. By any measure, those are the best themed areas of any amusement park ever built. And yet you insist that Disney has separation over the best of the best. Do you think that Toy Story land is going to match those areas? Do you think that Gaston's Tavern and gift shop, cute as they are, create separation from Diagon Alley? Not through any lens other than Disney Goggles. Cars Land is great. No argument there. But it is mostly visual, (which at this point, I will take). The main attraction there is well done too. Even though it is just a Test Track redux, I won't complain. But the other attractions have a distinct "Dinoland quality" about them. Nevertheless, guess what? DLR has seen an increase in attendance. Coincidence? I think not.

No doubt about it (although K Safari isn't bad), but that has nothing to do with the "quote" you used below on the WDW theme gap lead in M&G's/Live shows/Night shows.

That is all I am saying-those categories you responded to.

Help is on the way for the rest, I hope.

IMO the big separation in "Theming" WDW makes is shows, night shows, M&G's etc. That and park open hours.

I get that, its still a big separation from the rest at this point, and a large part of the reason many families even go.

A big separation from Busch Gardens Williamsburg; Busch Gardens Tampa; Universal Studios and Islands of Adventure? Not sure what definition of "separation" one has to use to make that claim. US/IOA was largely built by laid off Imagineers, or Imagineers who got better offers up the road. I don't think that they lost their flair for theming during the 10 mile drive up the highway.

 

[luisov]

Agreed 100%. I think one could argue some of AK is true imagineering magic as well.

There are some really outstanding pieces of Imagineering magic pretty much in every park (in some more so than in others). I mean, who would've thought something like Disneyland was even possible back in the 50's? But yeah, for today's standards, DisneySea really is something else.

 

[jade1]

Well, you could argue neither Hogsmeade nor Diagon Alley were created by the Universal team. The experiences were. Everything else was created by the people who actually made the movies. Almost every single piece of theming you see was previously designed for the movies, which was a really clever move from Universal, don't get me wrong.

If you are looking for true Imagineering magic, it's called DisneySea.

Yep agreed. Imagineers at US are very likely as good or better than WDW. I love that and take advantage of what is created/offered.

But there are limits to the tools available (IP, Characters etc) but also paying for and creating live shows and paying for and creating later park hours and night shows.

No biggie-we just head back to WDW for those. Many folks don't and don't care.

They (US/IOA) count almost entirely on rides. Not a bad thing and many guests only want that.

 

[rteetz]

There are some really outstanding pieces of Imagineering magic pretty much in every park (in some more so than in others). I mean, who would've thought something like Disneyland was even possible back in the 50's? But yeah, for today's standards, DisneySea really is something else.

No doubt. I think Main Street and building the berm around Disneyland to keep the outside world out are part of that magic. Everything I've seen from
DisneySea is incredible. If there is any non US park I want to go to its that one.

 

[rteetz]

Yep agreed. Imagineers at US are very likely as good or better than WDW. I love that and take advantage of what is created/offered.

But there are limits to the tools available (IP, Characters etc) but also paying for and creating live shows and paying for and creating later park hours and night shows.

No biggie-we just head back to WDW for those. Many folks don't and don't care.

They (US/IOA) count almost entirely on rides. Not a bad thing and many guests only want that.

The Creative team at Universal (they aren't called imagineers) is actually made up of a lot of former Disney imagineers. Universal almost went on a poaching spree and got a lot of former Disney imagineers around the time they got the potter rights.

 

[Tekneek]

These days, Imagineering magic to dream and build whatever is just part of the equation. The ability and willingness to maintain it going forward is the other half of the battle. When an attraction only looks as intended within the first 6 months of opening or immediately after each refurb period, the amount of "magic" that went into it has less meaning.

 

[rteetz]

These days, Imagineering magic to dream and build whatever is just part of the equation. The ability and willingness to maintain it going forward is the other half of the battle. When an attraction only looks as intended within the first 6 months of opening or immediately after each refurb period, the amount of "magic" that went into it has less meaning.

That's not necessarily imagineerings fault. That is that individual parks managements fault. Take the Pirates refurb that happened last year. It was supposed to be a major 6+ refurb because of years of deglect. MK management cut it down to 4.5 months and imagineers had to work as fast as they could to get as much as they could done in that time frame. Not everything was completed but the ride does look a lot better. It's completely normal for rides needing to be refurbed especially when they operate 365 days of the year. Some of these attractions are 40+ years old.

 

[jade1]

The Creative team at Universal (they aren't called imagineers) is actually made up of a lot of former Disney imagineers. Universal almost went on a poaching spree and got a lot of former Disney imagineers around the time they got the potter rights.

I actually know that, just was pointing out "former" imagineers. But heck yea like I say that is awesome and I love that.

Either way, US/IOA and the rest are way behind WDW in M&G's, live shows and night shows.

Maybe the funds will be released and the shackles removed one day. I hope so.