Asked to Prove you are ASD or turned away?

[Hannathy]

We are going in November. My son is high functioning but can't wait long. 15 to 20 min max. We got a GAC at Disneyland a couple years ago and it was great. We didnt abuse it. Just used it when there were really long waits or couldnt get a FP. If I can't get a GAC at DW it will cut down on the rides we will be able to go on. It will just cause meltdown after meltdown.

But I thought that wasn't what a GAC was for? I thought it wasn't to be used to shorten waits?

This is why it gets abused. Like wheelchairs used to do.

 

[buffettgirl]

they might as well just start allowing all strollers in lines - what's the big deal with this? Just reconfigure the holding areas and all people to take them in lines if they want. Stroller as a wheelchair seems like it's the new thing.

And unless shorter wait times was the actual benefit people wouldn't use it. So you know it's happening -people are asking for GAC to get shorter waits and they're getting them.

 

[mistysue]

they might as well just start allowing all strollers in lines - what's the big deal with this? Just reconfigure the holding areas and all people to take them in lines if they want. Stroller as a wheelchair seems like it's the new thing.

And unless shorter wait times was the actual benefit people wouldn't use it. So you know it's happening -people are asking for GAC to get shorter waits and they're getting them.

Now that strollers are more regularly being used as a sort of "child containment device" it would be a nice idea.

Re: wait times- if using the regular line means you might have to keep leaving and re-trying, you eventually require that perk of not having to re-wait. Unfortunately the solution to abuse of this would likely be sending people through the line, making them have a problem- then giving them a pass to get back. Now it couldn't be abused, but there are some serious moral issues there.
In my particular case, I am worried about waiting an hour in a line, having to rush out of there, then never being able to ride unless we re-do the whole hour +. If I could wait an hour, rush out to keep DD somewhere safer for a few, then redo my wait minus the hour- I would find that perfect. Maybe the advanced line systems are really being setup to be able to do things like that. (like your meat counter ticket, it holds your place, you just have to be there when your place is called)

 

[Nik's Mom]

I wish all of these people who are faking things to get a GAC, could see what it's really like to live in our shoes.

How disgusting must you be that you would encourage your child to lie like that?

 

[EvangelineG]

Downside of this also is; a diagnosis says little if anything about actual needs. And even when it comes to needs, we see enough topics on here already about docs that are....... thinking they know it all and/or have all the power (including my GP ) and hand out notes for "fotl access". For the most weird reasons where many times even the individual themselves say they're not looking for it as there is no need. So even without looking to abuse, it is offered already in notes.



Don't hit me over the head until you hear me out. Not playing the "it's all in your head" game, but would you think that your own sentiment might be of influence? It can easily influence communication on both how you communicate to the CM and how you interprete the CM's words. When worrying about something, it's easier to hear something that can come across a negative way more easily. A human thing, but can be a real pain in the you-know-what.

Next time perhaps it helps to look at it in another way? They are not trying to deny you anything. They are looking to find out as much as possible about each boys needs. On the one hand this can result in helping them in the best way possible on the other hand it reduces abuse where possible. Which of itself is another great help to both your boys. No need to fear when needs are there. Even more so since you have done the parks before. Explain their needs, use an example of how in the past something turned into a problem and how the GAC made a difference on situation such-and-so on another trip. Ask questions you have got, as even after many trips sometimes they are there. Actually your genuinity is gold. Abuse and fake is mostly about learning something and repeat it. There lies the difference for you also. Heck, go crazy, why NOT mention your worry? DO! By all means. It just shows what is in your mind and emotion anyway. Paints a picture of how the guests and families are and what is important for them. And not in the least bit; only when the CM knows about your worry can they address them.

Let's go out on a huge limb here and say you find things are changed. Different stamps. Oops; stress!!!!!!!! When communicatin your worry, this gives the CM room to go into it. Explain why different stamps. Turns out in this example they have gotten different stamps, word it differently, are strickter but for your boys it doesn't change things that the bottomline experience is negatively impacted. Or you still have some questions; they can go into it some more.

After having spent quite some time in GS and talking to quite a few CM's about this, I have found many of them have a great sense of knowledge what to look for. Esp. when it comes to something as common (to them) like ASD, anxiety etc. But also when it comes to signs of abuse. My syndrome is very rare, it's hard to find a doc who knows anything about it. Let alone explain it to any CM. And you know what? They know what to look for because their training is proper enough for that.

I can understand the sentiment but the biggest help for yourself I think would be in drawing strength from the fact that you know the needs, know they are there and that asking questions is not done to deny them but to optimize something that hopefully benefits the boys for centuries to come.

You're right about diagnoses not necessarily illustrating needs as they relate to touring the parks, and the possibility of Dr.s participating in abuse of the system or disseminating inaccurate info about FOTL passes etc. I am just saying that for my family it would be easier and less stressful to be able to produce documentation than to rely on having to convince a stranger of my sons' needs in a few minutes on a busy day when my own anxiety is very high, when my sons appear perfectly normal. Did I also mention that my sons' are completely mortified by anyone discussing their disabilities/needs and so refuse to come anywhere near the counter? But that's a whole separate issue, and it's all a moot point anyway, because although we always do have Dr.s notes for travel it is my understanding that WDW can't read them anyway.

No urge to throw anything! I actually completely agree with you that my worry influenced my ability to communicate effectively with the CM, but I know I wasn't imagining the CM's hesitancy to hand over the GAC. She wasn't asking questions. I was fumbling to explain my sons' needs in terms that wouldn't completely freak my sons out, and describing our previous experience using GAC at DL. When I got to the end of my spiel she made a comment to the effect of me seeming to know a lot about this (as in GAC's), and I was confused since I'd just finished telling her about previously using the GAC. She wasn't really listening, and she was suspicious. We did receive the GAC in the end, and all was well, but I would be lying if I said it was in any way a comfortable experience. Do I blame the CM? Not at all, especially after reading about all the instances of abuse. They have to be discerning. Am I dreading requesting a GAC for our next trip? Absolutely. Especially after reading this thread.

As far as CM's training for recognizing ASD & anxiety, I'm sure it is very good, and the first time we requested a GAC at DL we didn't encounter a hint of suspicion. But at that point my sons were both wearing pairs of enormous hunting orange ear defenders, one was crying, one was pacing furiously and both looked like they were being led to the guillotine not to the happiest place on earth! When I say that at this age and stage there are absolutely no outward signs of ASD that can be observed within a few minutes of meeting my sons, I really mean it. Which means the CM either has to believe me or not. Which means since they can't accept documentation from a mental health professional, that it comes down to my "salesmanship" of having needs warranting assistance -hence my discomfort.

I liked your advice though. Thank you for it. Hopefully my genuineness will come through, and maybe I could even get one of my sons (or both) on board for actually approaching the counter and participating in the discussion (dare to dream!), because that would make it a million times easier.

 

[SueM in MN]

It really breaks my heart to think of a parent teaching their child to act as if they are on the spectrum just so they could get a GAC. How low can you get? It really is deplorable.

We've used the GAC on our last two trips and it really was a godsend. We are planning a trip this Christmas and I like so many other posters am starting to worry that we won't be able to get one. My son will be turning 18 soon, and although his issues are the same as when he was ten, will his age be a factor in being able to use a GAC on this trip?

Honor systems only work when the majority of people are honorable.

It is probably in pretty small numbers, but people can get pretty low.

About 10 years ago, I had heard from some DIS friends who were CMs that there was actually a ‘black market’ in Make a Wish pins. Someone had gotten one, scanned it and then made copies to sell at street stalls on International Drive.
At that point, many people with MAW pins were given front of the line treatment and/or other special things with just the pin. There were also debated on this board where people whose child had taken a MAW trip felt that since they had one, they could use it for ALL future trips (which was never the intent). CMs were supposed to look at the paperwork, but most just looked at the pin.
We actually saw a few times when people were caught (mostly groups of teens who could not produce the paperwork that went along with the pins they had).

Since then, they changed the process, the actual GAC is what is most important and they have made it clear to people that the Wish trip is a once in a lifetime special thing.

Mamacass:
Age is never a factor in considerations for receiving a GAC.
I hope you and your son have a wonderful trip!

GACs are not just for children.

The thing is, if someone is twisted enough to encourage their child to "act autistic" what would keep them from forging a doctors note? I for one don't mind having a note, we use one when flying to explain our kids needs especially when flying overseas but I do have a concern about being at GS and having a CM telling me my son doesn't "look" like he needs a gac. We work really hard to not use it more than necessary, but because of his disabilities can usually only be in the parks about 2-3hours a a time. I wouldn't take him in June but he's a huge star wars nut and wanted to see some of SWW for his birthday. Now I'm almost regretting the decision to being him.

As I posted before, the great majority of people I have heard of having problems were not able to state their needs (and many were asking for some kind of expedited access). Be prepared to explain his needs and you should do fine.

Yes it is not that you have a disability, but the impact it has on your ability for equal access that is the "gate keeping" trigger for accommodations.

If a guest ask for superior access then yes they can be asked and in whole the accommodation is not typically covered under ADA except in a few specific situations. If the business chooses to supply superior access for the business's convenience, then no they cannot ask since the person had only requested equal accommodations.


A good example of this is the way universal handles their disability pass. Even though it is preferential, since they decided to use a preexisting convenient structure, and offer no other they are still not allowed to ask for "proof"

There will always be cheats as long as the system is in any way perceived as preferential at any time, but it has also been ruled that this does not give any right to require proof no matter how rampant it is. I keep hoping they will go to "slow pass" system that just gives you a pass to reenter the line near the entrance or enter through the FP entrance at the time shown on the current regular line wait time. There is still some potential for abuse, but much less than what is perceived now. With the changes during the past year, I can nto think of any line that has not been changed significantly since 1993, so all lines should now offer some type of alternate waiting and entry accommodation.

bookwormde

Unless Universal has changed since I last spoke with a Guest Relations person there who is a DIS poster, they do have more than one type of access to meet needs related to waiting/waiting area, not just the one you mentioned.

No one on this thread is suggesting roving bands of vigilante guests trying to ferret out ‘cheaters’. At least, I hope not.
There is no way to determine that (other than if someone is blatant about it, as in the examples that I and some other people mentioned - especially where people were perfectly frank telling others they ‘cheated'). We’ve had people watch DD sit on a bench and decide she just had a wheelchair to get to the front of lines - we didn’t just see their faces, we heard their comments. They saw a child sitting on a bench and saw no disability. They did not see us lift her onto the bench and arrange her so she could sit there.
I don’t want anyone else to experience that ‘punch to the gut’ feeling.

I also do not personally want to go to a world where ‘proof’ is needed for everything. As was already pointed out, most people who are willing to lie about a disability are also willing to go to the extra step and make a fake doctor’s letter). And, back when this board first started and lots of people were getting letters to take to Guest Relations, there were quite a few people who posted that they had to make a doctor’s appointment to get a letter (or the doctor charged to write the letter - which is not to say that doctors should not - there is some expense to the doctor for the letter). And, some have said “show a handicapped parking permit” - well, there are many people who need a handicapped parking permit to park or qualify for handicapped parking, but don’t need any assistance in the park.
So, requiring a letter/proof will not stop abuse - it will just inconvenience those who are disabled and trying to do what they need to do.

There is a perception that guests with wheelchairs or using GACs do not wait, but the perception is usually not the reality. People have posted that they got into certain things without waiting by using the ‘wheelchair entrance.’ But, when you actually look at what they are talking about, it is things like shows with alternate waiting areas where they got into the same show they would have if they walked in.
People also don’t look at what the wait in the regular line is. One time at Mission Space, we got into the regular line (which is accessible) with a 5 minute posted wait. As we got further into the attraction, we ended up behind a woman using an ECV. She looked at DD and then showed us her GAC and said we should "get one of these. I got right on this ride with it without waiting.”
Well, we got in after her, but caught up with her because the wait was so short.
We have also been by people in lines like Small World where they were saying it was so great to get right on - when the people who had entered the regular line right before us were already on a long time ago and we were still waiting.
So, there is a perception of a shorter wait to many people just because they are out of the ‘regular’ line.

My DD was quite small when the ADA was passed. We lived in a world where access for any disability was not to be taken for granted. We went into restaurants where we could not get in with DD’s wheelchair and theaters and museums where we carried her wheelchair up a long flight of stairs.
We had to ask people to move their chairs out of the path so we could get to the bathroom, but found that the door was too narrow to get her tiny wheelchair even into the bathroom. When we could get in, often there was no handicapped stall or the stall was too small for a wheelchair, so we parked her wheelchair in the doorway and used the bathroom basically “in public view’.
We heard people say ‘people like that don’t swim’ when all we asked was whether there was an accessible place where DD could be changed into her swimsuit.
We went to WDW when nothing was accessible in the ‘normal’ way and everything was special access. It didn’t make us feel special; it made us feel weird and I applaud WDW in trying to make things as accessible in the Mainstream as possible.

These are my thoughts about what to do:

I do think that guests with disabilities need to be aware that they will and should be questioned about what their needs are when they request a GAC. You can’t just go in and say “I have xxxx” because, as has already been mentioned, that does not tell what the needs are (and, as some people have mentioned, their doctors don’t actually know what they have, so they don’t have a “label".If that is looked at as begging for a GAC, that is what it will feel like. The main reason of the questions is to find out what the person actually needs (which is in compliance with the ADA - not an unusual or cruel ‘hoop’ to pass thru).

Guests with disabilities also need to be aware that they may be questioned at attractions about what they need, even when they present a GAC. GACs are general, not specific and not every attraction has the same things available. The CMs do need to know some specifics - for example, can someone using an ECV or wheelchair get out to board? How far can they walk? Can they walk? If there is a moving walkway, does a guest with a disability need it slowed or stopped? (not only guests with mobility needs, but people with mental or developmental disabilities, vision related disabilities).
In many case, you can’t just hand a GAC to the CM and have them instantly know what is needed (especially things like vision, where “low vision” may mean very different things, depending on the person’s exact difficulties or “front of theater seating” may not be the best seat for that person’s needs, depending on how that theater is set up and how far up the stage is).

Guests with disabilities need to be aware that CMs at entrances to attractions may/should look at the GAC carefully, ask them which of the people is the person named on the GAC and whether that person is riding. This is to prevent things like “granny dumping’, which is actually abuse of ‘granny’.

When a GAC is issued, guests should have an explanation on how to use it (i.e. That they should present it to the CM at the entrance to the queue, that not all accommodations are available at each attraction, that even the accommodation that is ‘normally’ available may be temporarily unavailable, that it is not designed to shorten waits and may lead to additional waits, that no accommodations may be available if the regular wait is 15 minutes or less - THOSE THINGS ARE PRINTED ON THE GAC, but I think many people do not read them).
They have started stamping GACs at some parks to say they are not used for character and ‘celebrity’ appearances/greetings. That is good that it is stamped right on it so there is no misunderstanding.

I would make sure that things like using granny (or anyone else) to get on attractions she is not going to ride does not end in a ride and does end up in confiscation of the GAC and possibly ejection from the park. I had heard of it even before reading it earlier in this thread.

 

[SueM in MN]

As long as I’m thinking, my wish list would include things like a kiosk in Guest Relations where people could search the park for things that are an issue for them.
For a few examples:

• For those with visual difficulties, what is the view from the front row seats? In many cases the front seats put guests chin at stage level and seats a few rows back would work better. Seats in row 3 or somewhere else might work better for those guests.
• For those with concerns about darkness, what is the light level? For example, we rode Imagination yesterday. The boarding area is bright, but the unload area is dimly lit (not sure why)? That might be nice to know ahead of time for someone with difficulty seeing in dimly lit situations.
• For those who have difficulty walking or need to transfer, how high is the step into or out of the ride car? What is the ride car like? Is there a wheelchair or ADA car?
• For those who have difficulty with moving walkways, are there any?
• For those with difficulty walking, if they choose to walk in line, how far is the distance?
• Is there an alternate waiting area and what is it like (I know for Turtle Talk at Epcot, people have looked at us enviously when we got led out of the regular waiting line because they think we are going into the next show. We are going into the same show as they are, but we are waiting in a bare, fairly small room with other guests who need to enter before the crowd does).

This could all be on the website ahead of time an interactive kiosk at the park where people could choose to look or not and could choose to print out information that is pertinent to them (in large type if they need or even in braille). if it was on the website ahead of time, people could put it into a format which works for them (for example on files that their smart phone could read out loud to them or as prerecorded audio files).

I tried to fill that gap in knowledge with what I have posted in the disABILITIES FAQs thread and also with pictures I have posted in wdwinfo.com photo site (and collected from others who have shared photos with me over the years).

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

they might as well just start allowing all strollers in lines - what's the big deal with this? Just reconfigure the holding areas and all people to take them in lines if they want. Stroller as a wheelchair seems like it's the new thing.

Simple; strollers take up a lot more space. Read; less guests being able to wait in the same line. WDW explodes so many youngsters there are. As we all know from the regular part of here, having a 6 year old or older use a stroller because they might get tired is happening. So maaaaaaaany strollers. Look at any strollerpark and it's mindboggling. Imagine those in line. Disaster before you even hit the loading and unloading area. Can you imagine having to store and move those strollers? Parents taking time to strap Johny and Suzie into place, blocking the whole ride unload area.

And let's assume there were ever to be a need to evacuate asap. Can you imagine the danger of all those strollers there? It's simply not safe or workable to have all strollers in there if there is no need.

And unless shorter wait times was the actual benefit people wouldn't use it. So you know it's happening -people are asking for GAC to get shorter waits and they're getting them.

Agree waittime is a factor. And I'm a firm believer that for those few rides where a wait does get shortened a GAC will be used and at those rides where it adds to a waittime, they "magically" will not be used when abusing a GAC.




Evangeline; sounds like you ran into a CM that has a lot of room to grow in performing their job or has gone a bit overboard after a briefing about being more aware? Doesn't sound like the general 'standard' so to say. Sorry about that.

But please do not dread!!! So far haven't seen anything that warrents dreading. It will be a big load on your shoulders for a long time. Very very likely for nothing, which is a huge shame for ever feeling it. Worst case scenario you run into an uninformed, grumpy, powerhungry CM with the worst case of PMS that goes "NO". OK, bad situation. Time to have you heart sink 3 levels. That's bad enough right there, you could desperately do without all those fear beforehand that also weighed on you. Stand for what you know, take a breath and ask for a manager. Not as it should be, devastating moment to have your heart drop at that spot but it will be lifted. Am as sure of it as I am of knowing where my right toe is. Well, more actually. But honestly; I can't remember a topic on here where anybody posted about a true need and not getting a GAC. Some things going wrong, poor communications, problems at a certain ride, read it all but never being denied a GAC with a true need. Keep that in mind, that is a very helpfull security blanket.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

As long as I’m thinking, my wish list would include things like a kiosk in Guest Relations where people could search the park for things that are an issue for them.
For a few examples:

• For those with visual difficulties, what is the view from the front row seats? In many cases the front seats put guests chin at stage level and seats a few rows back would work better. Seats in row 3 or somewhere else might work better for those guests.
• For those with concerns about darkness, what is the light level? For example, we rode Imagination yesterday. The boarding area is bright, but the unload area is dimly lit (not sure why)? That might be nice to know ahead of time for someone with difficulty seeing in dimly lit situations.
• For those who have difficulty walking or need to transfer, how high is the step into or out of the ride car? What is the ride car like? Is there a wheelchair or ADA car?
• For those who have difficulty with moving walkways, are there any?
• For those with difficulty walking, if they choose to walk in line, how far is the distance?
• Is there an alternate waiting area and what is it like (I know for Turtle Talk at Epcot, people have looked at us enviously when we got led out of the regular waiting line because they think we are going into the next show. We are going into the same show as they are, but we are waiting in a bare, fairly small room with other guests who need to enter before the crowd does).

This could all be on the website ahead of time an interactive kiosk at the park where people could choose to look or not and could choose to print out information that is pertinent to them (in large type if they need or even in braille). if it was on the website ahead of time, people could put it into a format which works for them (for example on files that their smart phone could read out loud to them or as prerecorded audio files).

I tried to fill that gap in knowledge with what I have posted in the disABILITIES FAQs thread and also with pictures I have posted in wdwinfo.com photo site (and collected from others who have shared photos with me over the years).

Knowing your "style" you will have long since already informed Disney about this wish. Totally second it! Would also wish for an app to be added. Not replace seeing how an app is not a proper option for all but it being mobile could be a huge comfort factor and boost for such a GREAT piece of needed service to be used by as many as possible.


Oh, and if we're at it; add it to the information page on the tv. Doubt many watch it, but if we're going to do it let's do it right.

 

[cjallen]

We just got back from WDW last week and we had a good time. But, we did have a melt down at Haunted Mansion due to the changes. We worked to resolve it with the CMs there, but I did go to Guest Services to state that there are some issues with how the GACs are being handled by CMs.

What the Guest Services CM told me during the course of the conversation didn't really set well. She stated that because so many people are having their children "pretend" to have Autism or simply just state their child has ASD in order to "cut lines" they are being a bit more discriminate in the giving of GACs to Guests, sometimes refusing to give them. I informed her I understand that this can be a concern, but that to my knowledge Guest Relations is not allowed to ask for "proof" and that this could lead to quite a firestorm if they weren't careful.

If we had to provide proof we could from several sources including his doctors, Easter Seals, school corporation etc., but I know that it wouldn't sit well with our family to be looked at like we were trying to "get away with something". The GAC makes touring the world much easier and less stressful, and as I am sure most of you would agree, I don't mind waiting longer if it means he is calmer during the day and we have less meltdowns.

I would chalk this up to an inexperienced CM but I also heard it from two other CMs at DHS when we got to talking about my son's GAC and they wanted to see where it was issued.

Has anyone else heard this?

We had a similar issue with The Haunted Mansion as the Castmember denied my wife access because the red-card had a smudge on the date created by the castmember who completed it, she accused my wife of tampering with the dates. This happened over the holidays, just after Christmas Day and we were highly offended. The Attraction Manager came out and appologized, went to Guest Services and had a new pristine version created to avoid any further confusion. We had arrived on the 17th and had ridden it a couple times prior with no issues. The manager told us the CM was doing her job and they had tightened restrictions on all rides due to the extremely high volume of visitors but this was our 8th Christmas vacation to WDW and had never had any similar issues prior to this, we too chalk it up to inexperienced CM and an overzealous interpretation of the rules.

 

[aiminator]

Guests with disabilities need to be aware that CMs at entrances to attractions may/should look at the GAC carefully, ask them which of the people is the person named on the GAC and whether that person is riding. This is to prevent things like “granny dumping’, which is actually abuse of ‘granny’.

I would make sure that things like using granny (or anyone else) to get on attractions she is not going to ride does not end in a ride and does end up in confiscation of the GAC and possibly ejection from the park. I had heard of it even before reading it earlier in this thread.

I visited WDW as a child in the late 80s and I experienced the granny dumping first hand. A friend of the family had rented a wheelchair for their relative - who could walk but sometimes required a rest. When granny was walking they would take turns in the wheelchair and use it to get to the front of the line. As a child I remember thinking that it was wrong. Nice example to set for our youth...

It sickens me that people would abuse the system. And it is unfortunate that those that have a need for GAC are denied or questioned because they don't look like they fit the part. In an ideal world people not requiring GAC would wait in the regular line and not try to beat the system but unfortunately there are creepy people out there that think they deserve to cut the line.

Every guest pays to go to Disney and everyone should have an equal chance to experience Disney - and if an individual has a disability that will prevent them from that experience they should be granted an alternate plan to enjoy the experience aka with the help of GAC - it is not right that people pretend to have a disability just to get what they view as a "privilege" From what I have read GAC doesn't guarantee front of the line access but a quiet area away from the line so not to trigger a meltdown, etc.

 

[cjallen]

I am at Disney now - my first trip confined to a wheelchair. I can transfer and have limited mobility. I can't do steps but I can walk on level surfaces for a bit. I have a very visible walking boot on my right foot. That is just the beginning of my medical issues right now, but it is what has put me in the chair finally! I do not have a GAC because I have no need that the GAC would help. I just need an entrance to a ride. The CM's have been awesome so far. Very helpful in telling me where to go to enter the queue or show. But we have a touring plan and we use fastpass. We've been here many times so that makes it much easier than it would be for a new person. And I have my personal chair.

I have always had a lot of respect for parents of special needs children. My four year old niece has Angelman's Syndrome - she is non-ambulatory and non-verbal. But she is a total sweetheart most of the time - the sunniest child you will ever meet. We haven't brought her to Disney but we are hoping to do so after she turns six or so since the specialists say that is when Angelman's children begin to have more normal sleep patterns. Right now she sleeps about 4 hours a night and if you take her out of her routine she won't sleep at all. And that can go on for weeks. The doctors say it is normal for her condition.

We try to teach her to wait but the concept just doesn't exist to her. We have taken her to smaller parks near our home.

I have spent time typing this just so people will understand how ticked off I was at Fantasmic tonight. I love that Disney is so accommodating to special needs kids. I've seen the "stroller as a wheelchair" tag and never questioned it. Tonight I sat in the wheelchair row at Fantasmic. My daughter and husband sat in front of me. Next to me were two little boys, two or three years old, in strollers with tags. They had about 10 people with them I think! A couple of siblings, parents (who lived locally from their conversation) and grandparents and an aunt visiting from out of town. Had nothing to do but listen to them talk while we waited so I know quite a bit about them. Including the fact that the mother got the stroller tags because it was "convenient". She didn't want to make the kids walk or carry them. She told her mother that she just goes to guest services and tells them she needs it. She said they rarely ask why but if they do, she says the kids are autistic and need the strollers to feel safe.

So abuse exists, I saw it today. And is sincerely hope that it won't cause Disney to change their system unless they can come up with a good alternative. The kids who really need the accommodations really need them! To punish them because of some selfish adults would not be a kind thing in my opinion.

Ask for what you need, and if you don't need it, pretend it doesn't exist!

We quit taking the time to see Fantasmic due to constant issues including not allowing our family to sit with my wife and I, the cast members always want my family of four to split up for the shows, the only accessible "seats" are nearly in the rear of the amitheater and we are almost always made to feel as if we are asking for something special to be seated together. I greatly understand the limited availability of accessible seating in the amiptheater, but separating families in a family oriented theme park is unacceptable. We have been forced to separate in other shows such as the Flights of Wonder, Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular to name a few but Fantasmic is the only one that the cast members were consistantly overzealous.

 

[buffettgirl]

This could all be on the website ahead of time an interactive kiosk at the park where people could choose to look or not and could choose to print out information that is pertinent to them (in large type if they need or even in braille). if it was on the website ahead of time, people could put it into a format which works for them (for example on files that their smart phone could read out loud to them or as prerecorded audio files).

this would be so easy for them to implement. Or like someone else mentioned, an app. I mean, it's just such a basic easy thing.

Simple; strollers take up a lot more space. Read; less guests being able to wait in the same line. WDW explodes so many youngsters there are. As we all know from the regular part of here, having a 6 year old or older use a stroller because they might get tired is happening. So maaaaaaaany strollers. Look at any strollerpark and it's mindboggling. Imagine those in line. Disaster before you even hit the loading and unloading area. Can you imagine having to store and move those strollers? Parents taking time to strap Johny and Suzie into place, blocking the whole ride unload area.

And let's assume there were ever to be a need to evacuate asap. Can you imagine the danger of all those strollers there? It's simply not safe or workable to have all strollers in there if there is no need.

I was thinking more along the lines of since the regular lines are now mostly all mainstreamed and that there are plenty of ECVs and W/C already in the lines (and I'd venture to guess that in an emergency an stroller could be maneuvered quicker than an ECV) that if the lines were to be moved a bit back from the attraction, with stroller parking up near the end of the line, rather than the beginning of the line, that that would be a start. If you could park your stroller near the end there would be no need for stroller as a w/c tags unless there was some other need.

 

[sarahkate60120]

Sorry if I'm covering already covered I have had time to read all the responses in this thread.

We were there in December and had trouble with Guest relations. My daughter is not on the Autism Spectrum, but has a different "disability" that was rendered not enough of a disability to get a GAC. My daughter is deaf and wears a cochlear implant on one ear and a bone conduction hearing aid on the other.

We would be happy to wait in any line they provide, but the way they have the lines set up underneath the metal pavillion covers is a sound nightmare. The person in guest relations suggested she just take off her devices to wait in line. So for half of her day she would be without sound and communication. How fun or right is that?

Guest relations staff need to be better trained.

 

[bookwormde]

Thanks Sue,

We were at universal last summer and that was all they offered us and we were not comfortable with "better than equivalent" accommodation so we did without, so I will have to see what else if available that I do not know about. Thanks for the heads up.

bookwormde

 

[buffettgirl]

Sorry if I'm covering already covered I have had time to read all the responses in this thread.

We were there in December and had trouble with Guest relations. My daughter is not on the Autism Spectrum, but has a different "disability" that was rendered not enough of a disability to get a GAC. My daughter is deaf and wears a cochlear implant on one ear and a bone conduction hearing aid on the other.

We would be happy to wait in any line they provide, but the way they have the lines set up underneath the metal pavillion covers is a sound nightmare. The person in guest relations suggested she just take off her devices to wait in line. So for half of her day she would be without sound and communication. How fun or right is that?

Guest relations staff need to be better trained.

Were you specific in what you needed? Guest Assistance isn't there to judge whether or not a disability is "enough" but to help you with what you need for your daughter. Taking off hearing devices isn't an option. However, in many cases there simply aren't any other lines available. So in this case it could simply be that they can't provide anything.

(the following isn't related to the above poster, so don't take it that way, I just am posting this now rather than start a new post)

I think when it all comes down to it, Disney's hands are a bit tied. ADA disallows them asking what the disability is and disallows documentation. However, Disney also doesn't state that a GAC is only for people with a disability. They say it's for people with a need. So who is the judge of what is a need?

To a PP who says her child has no diagnosis yet takes temper tantrums if the wait is longer than 15 min, well, show me any kid at disney who likes to wait longer than 15 min. Does this qualify as a legitimate need? Does Guest Services get to decide? Who gets to make this determination? What happens if the alternate entry wait area is longer than 15 min? The PP suggested that since she's paid her money she's entitled to get on rides. Yeah, me too. What is a need and what is simply a child that doesn't like to wait in line? Is simply not liking lines also a need? I'm travelling this summer with my 6 year old nephew who bounces off the walls and I'm sure he'll be a super joy in line. Should his parents ask for a GAC to avoid lines so that they don't have to deal with the inconvenience of a child who can't sit still? Is this a need? What about when my daughter was little and she literally hyperventilated at the sight of men with beards (who knows why). Should alternate entry have been provided so that perhaps we could avoid most situations where men with beards might be present? What if men with beards were also in the alternate waiting areas? Is this a real need? Would this qualify for a GAC?

So either Disney has to say GAC process is for those with documented disabilities or the whole discussion on who deserves them and who doesn't, needs to simply end. Since the first can't happen, then the second is the only outcome.

You think you have need.
You express that need to guest services
You get a GAC stamped with your need.
No one here (or anywhere else) can comment on it.

End of story.

 

[crashbb]

Sorry if I'm covering already covered I have had time to read all the responses in this thread.

We were there in December and had trouble with Guest relations. My daughter is not on the Autism Spectrum, but has a different "disability" that was rendered not enough of a disability to get a GAC. My daughter is deaf and wears a cochlear implant on one ear and a bone conduction hearing aid on the other.

We would be happy to wait in any line they provide, but the way they have the lines set up underneath the metal pavillion covers is a sound nightmare. The person in guest relations suggested she just take off her devices to wait in line. So for half of her day she would be without sound and communication. How fun or right is that?

Guest relations staff need to be better trained.

What accomodation would have helped you?

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

What accomodation would have helped you?

Hey, don't steal my questions will you!? No seriously, this was what I was about to post. Educate me, what would be needed within the options that can be done?



Buffetgirl; ah that's the way you see it. Can see where you are coming from. Definately would be a huge decrease for the stroller as wheelchair tag, but I doubt it can be done IRL. If I picture any of the stroller parkings in place, how huge they are. Combine that with such a large space at the end of a line but also accessible enough for guests to get their own stroller after riding -and no long distances, crowded line out etc.- I can see 2 concearns. One is safety with having such a blockage so close by and the second, bigger one; should be easily reached from both "end" of the line and after reading equals sneakoptions for those wanting to cheat the line. With all those strollers it would be (almost) undoable for a CM to keep an eye out, know who has to go which way etc. Might be me being pessimistic, but lines and people are not a combination that by now I expect the best off.

 

[sarahkate60120]

The only way they could accomodate would be to provide a different area to wait. I would have been happy waiting in a different area until it was our turn and then getting on the ride. But that was not an option.

We ended up getting a GAC. As another person at guest services agreed that taking off her devices was not a good option. Without her devices my daughter couldn't hear a fire engine roaring down the street so I really didn't think that was an acceptable option. If there had been an emergency at Disney and I wasn't right by her side there could have been a real problem.

Just because a person does not have a "physical" reason why waiting in lines is difficult does not mean they don't have a real reason to have a GAC. I saw a lot of judgement at Disney from parents who thought other families should not have the passes and some probably should not have, but in reality no one really knows exactly what is happening in another family and with another child.

 

[livndisney]

The only way they could accomodate would be to provide a different area to wait. I would have been happy waiting in a different area until it was our turn and then getting on the ride. But that was not an option.

We ended up getting a GAC. As another person at guest services agreed that taking off her devices was not a good option. Without her devices my daughter couldn't hear a fire engine roaring down the street so I really didn't think that was an acceptable option. If there had been an emergency at Disney and I wasn't right by her side there could have been a real problem.

Just because a person does not have a "physical" reason why waiting in lines is difficult does not mean they don't have a real reason to have a GAC. I saw a lot of judgement at Disney from parents who thought other families should not have the passes and some probably should not have, but in reality no one really knows exactly what is happening in another family and with another child.

But each ride does not have a another place to wait. So I don't understand how a GAC would help you?