Artist Point Dress Code

[disfanatiks]

We always dress business casual when we dine at Artist Point, however, DD is taking a male friend (15) with her and he usually wears jeans. He is dressing up for church on Sunday and Brunch at Palio. I was wondering has anyone ever worn jeans at AP?

Thanks

 

[Bob P]

Yes, he can wear jeans. The dress code asks for no tank tops on men, and no swimwear and cutoff shorts on anyone. You will see a variety of clothes in AP...from dressy to theme park casual!

Bob

 

[disfanatiks]

Great!!! Thanks for the quick answer, Bob.

 

[MEW]

We were just there last week and there were plenty of people in T-shirts and shorts. We were told to wear business casual, but one man next to us actually did dine in a tank top.

 

[bicker]

Over time, hopefully, folks will comply with our hosts wishes with regard to the dress code more-and-more.

 

[mdhkitten]

Over time, hopefully, folks will comply with our hosts wishes with regard to the dress code more-and-more.

I couldn't agree more. Whenever a friend and I dine at WDW, we try to eat at some of the nicer resort restaurants, like California Grill, Jiko, Flying Fish, etc...... Last year we ate at CG, and were disappointed that people were allowed to dine in tank tops, short, and flip flops. They looked as if they had come straight from the MK. The reason that we eat here as opposed to a more casual restaurant or counter service restaurant is that we enjoy the nicer, dressier atmosphere. I know that it's a pain to leave the theme parks and return to yur hotel to change to nicer clothes, but it can be done as I have each year. It's fine if someone comes in nice jeans and a nice shirt (polo, dressy, sweater, whatever), but the theme park clothes I just don't understand. Sorry, had to vent!

 

[raidermatt]

Personally, I don't care what anybody else wears. But there will only be compliance with dress codes if, 1, they exist and are consistently communicated, and 2, they are consistently enforced.

Obviously Disney is trying to find the right balance between having a "dressy" atmosphere in certain restaurants while still being accomodating to the significant numbers of guests who want to dress more casually.

I suspect there will always be those in these restaurants others consider "under-dressed", and that even violate the stated dress code.

Sort of like lines for the attractions... they're going to be there. Whether one lets it bother them or not is an individual decision.

 

[majortom]

Over time, hopefully, folks will comply with our hosts wishes with regard to the dress code more-and-more.

I could not disagree more. These are restaurants in a theme park. It is one thing to have one restaurant like Victoria and Albert's with a rigid dress code, it is another to have many. Disney already has too few table service restaurants and restricting access to even more of them is foolish.

Our country has become increasingly casual. Even places that used to have serious dress codes (like many restaurants in New Orleans) have relaxed them.

People come to Disney World for vacation. They spend their day in a theme park and should neither be expected to bring dress clothes nor to go back to their hotel and change.

There are many times that I feel like dressing up when I go out somewhere. I do it for my own benefit and for the benefit of those in my party. I do not care what others in a restaurant in which I am dining are wearing.

There was a time when people dressed up to fly. People would wear sport coats to fly first class. I fly almost 200,000 miles a year, both domestic and international trips averaging over 80 flights a year. If 10 of them are in coach, that is unusual. I rarely even notice what others in my row (usually at most 4 people) are wearing. Their dress does nothing to change my flying experience.

Since Disney has tried to institute this dress code (as far as I can tell to make up for slipping food quality and service standards) I have started to note what people around me are wearing. I see many people in jeans and t-shirts and I will be quite surprised if that changes.

If a person sitting near one's table smells bad, that will have an impact one's meal. If they are wearing an "Eat the Rich" t-shirt, it should not.

Do those of you that want dress codes feel that you are better off sitting next to a man in a bright turquoise jacket and fluorescent orange velour pants (perfectly within Disney's Business Casual code) that you are sitting next to someone in black jeans and a black t-shirt?

Why do you care?

/carmi

 

[Uncleromulus]

Raidermatt pretty much has it nailed. And as we see, it isn't consistently (or uniformly) communicated and it is rarley enforced.
And as dress codes go, it is pretty relaxed to begin with.
And as to the original question--"jean pants" are fine at AP.

 

[bicker]

I couldn't agree more. ... The reason that we eat here as opposed to a more casual restaurant or counter service restaurant is that we enjoy the nicer, dressier atmosphere.

Yes, I think that's what people need to realize: That there can and should be different types of restaurants to serve different desires. Not all the restaurants have to be the same.

I could not disagree more. These are restaurants in a theme park.

No. They're restaurants in hotels. I agree that there shouldn't be dress codes in theme park restaurants.

It is one thing to have one restaurant like Victoria and Albert's with a rigid dress code, it is another to have many.

I agree that to have "many" would be excessive, but there aren't "many" -- there are only seven, and in each of those seven cases, there is at least one other restaurant, without the dress code, in the same facility.

I think people object to dress codes because they don't feel they should have to show respect to other diners, but in reality complying with the dress code shows respect to the host.

 

[webray]

Jeans are fine. We have done everything to going straight from the park in shorts and t's as well as change before dinner. The dress code is only suggested, not required. Nobody has to "dress up". Enjoy!

 

[Bob P]

Noooooo.....not another dress code thread!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's remember the question was: is it OK for a 15 year old to wear jeans to AP. I think we can all agree that the answer is yes!

 

[raidermatt]

Yes, I think that's what people need to realize: That there can and should be different types of restaurants to serve different desires.

Well, no, they don't need to realize anything, unless Disney truly wants them too and acts accordingly. The restaurants only need to be different in so far as it serves the needs of the guests and therefore Disney.

Apparently, Disney isn't overly concerned with the staus quo.

I think people object to dress codes because they don't feel they should have to show respect to other diners, but in reality complying with the dress code shows respect to the host.

I comply with any dress code I am aware of, and I don't really pretend to know why anyone who doesn't comply chooses not to.

I do think its more than a tad presumptious to say they don't feel they need to show respect to other diners, or the host for that matter. I'm sure there are a variety of reasons, including:
-Ignorance of the code because it wasn't properly communicated to them.
-Forgetfullness.
-The knowledge that the code is not enforced and therefore assuming its not necessary. Whether this is a true sign of disrespect or simply conforming to the law in practice as opposed to its letter, is a matter of conjecture and probably varies greatly by individual.
-Yes, outright disregard for what bothers either the other guests or the business establishment.

While I do comply, I do object to some of the codes in place at WDW. I fully realize they are more lax than they would be at equivalent restaurants off-property, but WDW is a unique situation, and its in Disney's best interest to make accomodations accordingly. For the most part, they do a good job of this as is. They have instituted somewhat more strict codes at a few places, which encourages a slightly higher level of dress, yet they do not strictly enforce those codes, which acknowledges the unique situation they are in.

 

[bicker]

That there can and should be different types of restaurants to serve different desires.

The restaurants only need to be different in so far as it serves the needs of the guests and therefore Disney.

Same thing, Matt.

Apparently, Disney isn't overly concerned with the staus quo.

On the contrary: They just introduced a dress code at the signature restaurants. That's the first step in actually imposing a dress code.

I do think its more than a tad presumptious to say they don't feel they need to show respect to other diners, or the host for that matter.

Good thing that's not what I said.

 

[majortom]

No. They're restaurants in hotels. I agree that there shouldn't be dress codes in theme park restaurants.

They are highly themed restaurants in a theme resort. One can ride a monorail from Magic Kingdom to get to California Grill, Citrico's and Narcoossee's. I would bet that more than 75% of those who stay at Walt Disney World are there on vacation.

I agree that to have "many" would be excessive, but there aren't "many" -- there are only seven, and in each of those seven cases, there is at least one other restaurant, without the dress code, in the same facility.

Depending on how one counts, it is about 15% of Disney's sit down restaurants, and a much larger percentage of those that are not buffets and/or character meals. More importantly, in many places it is 50% of the non-buffet, non-character dining locations. If one wants to be able to have an uninterrupted conversation at Wilderness Lodge, Artist's Point is one's only choice (Whispering Canyon's "entertainment" makes it impossible there). At Grand Floridian, 75% of non-buffet and 60% of all table service restaurants have a dress code. Given how hard it is to get priority seating times for most table service restaurants, it seems clear that demand far exceeds supply.

If one is not staying in the hotel where one is eating, it can be a multi-hour trek to get back to one's hotel to change clothes and then get back to the restaurant where one plans to eat. If one is staying off property it might not even be possible without incurring a large additional expense for taxi rides (many off property hotels have only two or three shuttle round trips a day).

Given that scarcity of table service restaurants is so great, that one needs to book one's priority seating times six months out for almost any table service restaurant (buffet and character meals included), expecting everyone that wants to eat at a table service restaurant that is not a buffet or character meal to either change clothes or choose among a very limited set of restaurants is unreasonable.

I think people object to dress codes because they don't feel they should have to show respect to other diners, but in reality complying with the dress code shows respect to the host.

If you think that Disney and its staff actually care what one wears to their restaurants, you are confused. Disney instituted this policy because they were getting complaints about guests' overall experiences at Disney's signature restaurants. Instead of fixing their underlying problems (poor food and service), they have chosen to apply band-aids (dress codes, moving check in downstairs at California Grill, requiring deposit for reservations, etc.).

When California Grill was receiving its highest ratings, it had no dress code, allowed anyone to be in the bar and did not require a deposit for a real reservation. Now, its reputation is mixed at best, and yet it has added all these new requirements.

/carmi

 

[bicker]

I would bet that more than 75% of those who stay at Walt Disney World are there on vacation.

Men without dinner jackets or women in sportswear don't get served dinner, at all, in the (only) restaurant in the Balsams hotel in Dixville Notch NH, and more than 75% of the people go there for vacation.

My wife and I don't like those dress codes, but we respect our hosts' wishes, and therefore don't patronize those restaurants.

If you think that Disney and its staff actually care what one wears to their restaurants, you are confused.

Disney's management does care about guests being able to get what they expect, and when guests are informed that a restaurant has a dress code and they comply with it, they have a reasonable expectation that the dress code will be complied with by others as well, thereby completing the fine dining experience they were led to believe would be provided by that restaurant.

 

[majortom]

Men without dinner jackets or women in sportswear don't get served dinner, at all, in the (only) restaurant in the Balsams hotel in Dixville Notch NH, and more than 75% of the people go there for vacation.

A silly comparison. Disney is a theme resort with hundreds of thousands of guests every day and prides itself on being egalitarian. Balsams is a tiny resort that takes pride in being snooty which clearly caters to a different clientele. If Disney decided to adopt a similar policy at all its restaurants (or even just at its signature restaurants), they would have many unhappy guests.

Disney's management does care about guests being able to get what they expect, and when guests are informed that a restaurant has a dress code and they comply with it, they have a reasonable expectation that the dress code will be complied with by others as well, thereby completing the fine dining experience they were led to believe would be provided by that restaurant.

You are arguing that one should comply with a dress code that Disney has but does not enforce. I am arguing that they should not have one at all.

My point is that it is inappropriate given the circumstances for them to have a dress code (other than at their victorian themed Victoria and Albert's) that excludes or substantially inconveniences almost all of their guests. If they had so many (non-buffet, non-character dining) table service restaurants without a higher than Theme Park Ware dress code that one could easily get a priority seating time same day, I would not object to adding some restaurants with a higher standard dress code. That is not the case, however, and as such removing a large percentage of these restaurants from the general pool is absurd.

Finally, dress codes have nothing to do with fine dining, which is precisely the problem I have been complaining about. Fine dining is about high quality food and service, not about the clothes customers wear. When California Grill was receiving its best reviews (under Chef Cliff, opening General Manager George and Advanced Sommelier Jeff), it had no dress code. Commander's Palace in New Orleans has a dress code while its sister restaurant in Las Vegas does not but both are great fine dining experiences. Disney has decided that instead of fixing its underlying problem with its signature restaurants - poor (or at least uneven) food and service that would require actual work on its part, it will instead inconvenience its guests by imposing a dress code (that they only randomly enforce) with the hope that either this will fool people into thinking these are better restaurants than they are, or will attract a crowd that is more concerned with appearances than with quality food and service.

/carmi

 

[bicker]

Disney is a theme resort with hundreds of thousands of guests every day and prides itself on being egalitarian.

No, that's not true.

Balsams is a tiny resort that takes pride in being snooty which clearly caters to a different clientele.

That's true.

However, Disney does want to appeal to some of that snooty clientele. They even built a hotel for which they have been trying for years to get that snootiness seal-of-approval. Disney wants to have offerings that appeal to many types of guests not just one.

If Disney decided to adopt a similar policy at all its restaurants ..., they would have many unhappy guests.

Without your parenthetical remark, which I omitted, that's very very true. You're correct that they'd be silly do that. (Trying to find some measure of agreement. )

You are arguing that one should comply with a dress code that Disney has but does not enforce. I am arguing that they should not have one at all.

And those two things aren't mutually-exclusive, actually. However, I think they should have a dress code, as casual as it is currently (the Disney definition of "business casual"), and that having it in seven out of fifty or so restaurants is a good proportion.

And that folks should comply with all requests of their hosts.

 

[Uncleromulus]

Well-we've beaten up on this subject yet again. The OP had their question answered, so no need to continue.