Are you or have you ever been the "other woman"?

[caitycaity]

Or maybe they're not such good men. I don't know, on my list of things that make a good man honesty, courage and fidelity are pretty high up there. Someone who can't be honest with his spouse and runs around behind her back because he doesn't have the cahones to "be a man" and own up to his vows (or do what he has to do in order to mutually dissolve the agreement he made to his spouse) isn't much of a man IMO. He's a little boy who has a lot of growing up to do. Good men take responsibility for their lives. Little boys do what feels good regardless of who they hurt in the process.

 

[poohandwendy]

Or maybe they're not such good men. I don't know, on my list of things that make a good man honesty, courage and fidelity are pretty high up there. Someone who can't be honest with his spouse and runs around behind her back because he doesn't have the cahones to "be a man" and own up to his vows (or do what he has to do in order to mutually dissolve the agreement he made to his spouse) isn't much of a man IMO. He's a little boy who has a lot of growing up to do. Good men take responsibility for their lives. Little boys do what feels good regardless of who they hurt in the process.

I see what you are saying and are probably right in many cases. But I agree with AP...sometimes it happens with good people who make mistakes that they deeply regret. I guess knowing the difference is the challenge. (note, I am trying to keep it non-gender specific, it happens with men and women.) Not all of them are selfish pigs, IMO. Some people are really strong for most of their lives and weak during others. I don't think we should brand them for life. It's up to the spouse to decide if they are worthy of a second chance, I guess.

 

[poohandwendy]

Everyone makes mistakes, but IMO a good person is one who takes responsibility for their mistakes. Continuing to carry on a relationship outside of your marriage does not qualify as "taking responsibility for your mistakes." Perfection? No. But there's only so far "well I'm not perfect" can go as an excuse.

Ok, so what if they want to takle responsibility for the mistake of having an affair?

 

[auntpolly]

Does that make any sense?

Yeah, I think we're all on about the same page. It sucks to find out your husband has had an affair I'm sure but it happens, for sure, to the people formerly voted "least likely". It would be nice if we could kind of head it off, so to speak.

 

[Lisa F]

I see what you are saying and are probably right in some cases. but I agree with AP...sometimes it happens with good people who make mistakes that they deeply regret. I guess knowing the difference is the challenge. (note, I am trying to keep it non-gender specific, it happens with men and women.) Not all of them are selfish pigs, IMO. Some people are really strong for most of their lives and weak during others. I don't think we should brand them for life.

See my following post about perfection though. Anyone can make a mistake in a moment of weakness. It's how you deal with that mistake once it's been made that counts. Married people who carry on relationships with someone else for a long time either know what they are doing is wrong and are not fixing it because it's too hard or it feels too good to be bad OR they truly have no sense that what they are doing is wrong, in which case they are a psychopath.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

See my following post about perfection though. Anyone can make a mistake in a moment of weakness. It's how you deal with that mistake once it's been made that counts. Married people who carry on relationships with someone else for a long time either know what they are doing is wrong and are not fixing it because it's too hard or it feels too good to be bad OR they truly have no sense that what they are doing is wrong, in which case they are a psychopath.

You must mean sociopath. I think the term psychopath is applied to axe murderers, etc.

So as long as they divorce first, maybe several times, then they are not considered sociopathic?

 

[Lisa F]

Ok, so what if they want to takle responsibility for the mistake of having an affair?

Then they have to "face the music" so to speak. Either their spouse (I am trying to keep it gender neutral because women cheat too) will forgive them or they won't. Either way they have the live with the consequences of what they've done and admit that what they did was wrong (and IMO that includes taking responsibility for your actions and not blaming your spouse for driving you to it).

I have a lot of respect for people who make mistakes and then do what it takes to make it right. IMO that's often a much harder path than just not making the misake in the first place. On the other hand I have no sympathy for someone who makes the same mistake over and over and over and doesn't learn from their previous mistakes. At some point it stops becoming a "mistake" and turns into deliberate, selifsh, hurtful actions. If you want to be single and want to sleep around, go for it... just don't drag down your spouse in the process.

 

[disneydragon]

I see what you are saying and are probably right in many cases. But I agree with AP...sometimes it happens with good people who make mistakes that they deeply regret. I guess knowing the difference is the challenge. (note, I am trying to keep it non-gender specific, it happens with men and women.) Not all of them are selfish pigs, IMO. Some people are really strong for most of their lives and weak during others. I don't think we should brand them for life. It's up to the spouse to decide if they are worthy of a second chance, I guess.

Very well said! Sometimes people make huge mistakes and actually come out better people by the end. It doesn't make them all pigs because they made mistakes.

 

[poohandwendy]

See my following post about perfection though. Anyone can make a mistake in a moment of weakness. It's how you deal with that mistake once it's been made that counts. Married people who carry on relationships with someone else for a long time either know what they are doing is wrong and are not fixing it because it's too hard or it feels too good to be bad OR they truly have no sense that what they are doing is wrong, in which case they are a psychopath.

True, I think the length and depth of the affair definitely show whether or not the cheating spouse has any regret. IMO, a long term affair pretty much is a signal that the marriage has very little hope and that the character of the cheater is pretty much low. It's one thing for it to start, but to continue into a lengthy relationship....well my Dad had a saying that rhymes with "Spit or get off the pot" JMHO.

 

[Lisa F]

You must mean sociopath. I think the term psychopath is applied to axe murderers, etc.

So as long as they divorce first, maybe several times, then they are not considered sociopathic?

Sorry, I'm not up on my psychological disorders. I got the following definition from m-w.com, if they're wrong you should let them know:

extreme mental disorder marked usually by egocentric and antisocial activity

I would say that someone who goes into several marriages with no intention of keeping to their vows AND who leads their partner to believe otherwise qualifies as being egotistical and antisocial (from the point of view of following the expections that most people have when dealing with one another). If someone is leading an "alternative" lifestyle that involves swinging or multiple partners or whatever, I couldn't care less as long as they are not doing it behind the back of their spouse. I just have a real problem with dishonesty and cheating. I'm not saying everyone on the planet needs to be in a monogamous relationship but if you don't want to be in one, you need to be honest with your partner about it and not sneak around behind their back.

 

[disney4us2002]

I don't think anyone expects perfection from their spouse. That is asking too much of course, but if you read thru the stories posted, there is a pattern. It starts simply enough and develops over time; unless the cheater is seeking prostitutes, sex comes much later. At some point prior to actually breaking his/her vows, a "good" person would recognize what is going on and take responsibility to either fix or end the marriage before involving another person.

 

[Christine]

True, I think the length and depth of the affair definitely show whether or not the cheating spouse has any regret. IMO, a long term affair pretty much is a signal that the marriage has very little hope and that the character of the cheater is pretty much low. It's one thing for it to start, but to continue into a lengthy relationship....well my Dad had a saying that rhymes with "Spit or get off the pot" JMHO.

I know two people in long-term affairs (I'm talking 17 years on one and 5 on another). Both have spouses that would be in dire shape financially if the cheating spouse left. I know as a woman, I wouldn't want someone to stay with me out of pity; however, I think that the "cheater" has serious issues with packing up and leaving and can't bring themselves to do it. Men especially have a hard time being the one to leave. Women do it so much more easily.

 

[Teejay32]

Married people who carry on relationships with someone else for a long time either know what they are doing is wrong and are not fixing it because it's too hard or it feels too good to be bad OR they truly have no sense that what they are doing is wrong, in which case they are a psychopath....

or they feel justified in it, like PAW said. That's probably the most common.

 

[poohandwendy]

So as long as they divorce first, maybe several times, then they are not considered sociopathic?

Actually, if you are comparing divorce to affairs, yes. (although I am sure there are soicopaths who have been divorced several times or not at all) Divorce is upfront and ends the commitment. Affairs are betrayals while continuing to keep up a front of being committed to your spouse. That is what would qualify a habitual cheater as sociopathic, IMHO.

 

[poohandwendy]

I know two people in long-term affairs (I'm talking 17 years on one and 5 on another). Both have spouses that would be in dire shape financially if the cheating spouse left. I know as a woman, I wouldn't want someone to stay with me out of pity; however, I think that the "cheater" has serious issues with packing up and leaving and can't bring themselves to do it. Men especially have a hard time being the one to leave. Women do it so much more easily.

In my opinion, and only my opinion, a GOOD person would be upfront with their spouse if that is how they felt. Then they have given choices to their spouse. Maybe that is the case with your examples. But dishonesty over years and years is a character flaw, not something honorable. No matter how much they justify it in their minds.

 

[Lisa F]

I know two people in long-term affairs (I'm talking 17 years on one and 5 on another). Both have spouses that would be in dire shape financially if the cheating spouse left. I know as a woman, I wouldn't want someone to stay with me out of pity; however, I think that the "cheater" has serious issues with packing up and leaving and can't bring themselves to do it. Men especially have a hard time being the one to leave. Women do it so much more easily.

IMO this is the same kind of logic that allows people who cheat to believe that it's all their spouse's fault. It's just another excuse for not wanting to take responsibility for what they are doing. If the financial situation were the most important thing to the spouse who is being cheated upon then they will say "hey, I don't want to get a divorce because I like how our life is, but feel free to do whatever you want." I'm sure there are plenty of people who feel that way. The spouse who is being cheated on should at least have the choice and the opportunity to move on with their lives if the relationship is really over. Yes, it may be the HARDER thing to do, but often the right thing to do IS the harder thing to do. That's where the courage comes in.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

I just remembered that I had read something in the past where homosexuality was classified as deviant sexual behaviour in the DSM 4 years ago. It isn't now though. If cheating spouses are considered sociopaths, than the ratio must be higher than 1 in 20 people. I heard that statistic on the news.

 

[Christine]

In my opinion, and only my opinion, a GOOD person would be upfront with their spouse if that is how they felt. Then they have given choices to their spouse. Maybe that is the case with your examples. But dishonesty over years and years is a character flaw, not something honorable. No matter how much they justify it in their minds.

Oh, I don't think they are thrilled with themselves at all. More sad I guess about how it has worked out I just meant that I think they are good people overall.

 

[poohandwendy]

I just remembered that I had read something in the past where homosexuality was classified as deviant sexual behaviour in the DSM 4 years ago. It isn't now though. If cheating spouses are considered sociopaths, than the ratio must be higher than 1 in 20 people. I heard that statistic on the news.

I guess I am not following you...I don't think anyone suggested that all people who cheat are socio (or) psychopathic. Could you clarify your point?

 

[Lisa F]

If cheating spouses are considered sociopaths, than the ratio must be higher than 1 in 20 people. I heard that statistic on the news.

No one said that. What I said is that someone who does it AND has no sense that what they are doing (lying and cheating) is somehow wrong would qualify as a socio/psychopath (whatever, you know what I mean). I am willing to bet that most people who lie and cheat know they are doing the wrong thing, they just choose to do it anyway. Please don't turn my argument into "anyone who doesn't do it in the missionary position is mentally ill." My argument had nothing to do with sex but rather with knowledge of right and wrong.