Are you or have you ever been the "other woman"?

[Christine]

I thought it was worth a try - said I was sorry.

auntpolly, please don't apologize. I like your topic. I just wish that people would respect your request to *listen* and not judge. Or start another thread about the theories of adultery and what's wrong about it. I just don't know why people can help themselves on these types of threads.

 

[grlpwrd]

auntpolly, please don't apologize. I like your topic. I just wish that people would respect your request to *listen* and not judge. Or start another thread about the theories of adultery and what's wrong about it. I just don't know why people can help themselves on these types of threads.

Though I really tried not to interject I do have to speak for the children because obviously no one will.

I guess it's back to putting my head in the sand...

 

[Kristi1357]

Also, I do think when you ask if someone has been "the other woman" that they need to have full cognizance of it in order to truly be one. If the guy is lying to you and he has a girlfriend you don't know about, well, I don't think that counts. If you knowingly enter into a relationship where the guy (or girl) has a *significant* other--well, only THEN do get to be the "other woman." QUOTE]

I totally agree.

I feel bad for those that previously posted that they have regrets about past relationships - ones where they knew nothing about the cheating taking part on the other party's side! As long as you ended it when you found out...

 

[auntpolly]

auntpolly, please don't apologize. I like your topic. I just wish that people would respect your request to *listen* and not judge. Or start another thread about the theories of adultery and what's wrong about it. I just don't know why people can help themselves on these types of threads.

I know - it's not like I'm condoning being "the other woman". It's just that I know that they are human beings with human frailties just like the rest of us and I wanted them to come out of the shadows a little which will never happen if people keep saying the obvious - of course, for example, children will get hurt. But we're talking about something else here. I'd kind of like to understand the whole dynamics of it.

Like if you yell at adultresses enough it won't happen anymore.
I don't think it works that way.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

You know believe it or not, when I asked the question, even though I knew it was a possibility that people would get judgemental and arguments might ensue, I was really hoping that wouldn't happen.

I'm really curious about this and I would like to hear the stories. Yeah, I know, it's sad, and children are affected, and I don't like affairs, but they are a reality and I'd just let the women who are in the middle of it talk without fear of reprisal. I mean, maybe there's something to be learned here.

I just think that it is so cool that you have the ability to be so open minded!

A lot of the "affair" type situations involve being able to listen to someone unconditionally. Atleast I kind of feel that mine has involved a lot of non-judgemental listening. I remember reading that people bond with someone who lends an ear in this manner. It is kind of based on the Freudian transference thing. I find that in my life, I have a lot of people pouring out their life stories to me. It's kind of an interesting place to find oneself.

To the people that feel negatively toward the people in question, remember that some of us are educated and independent and perhaps we are just good listeners.

The "kid" issue was not one for me. My phone buddy has a grown, out of the house 21 yr. old.

 

[poohandwendy]

I'd kind of like to understand the whole dynamics of it.

I would too, it's interesting. But we are merely scratching the surface here, IMHO.

One thing that I notice is that noone, personally involved in an affair, ever says, well he cheated because he didn't know how to communicate with his wife. She cheated because she wanted some excitement in her life and didn't know how to get it in her marriage. He cheated because he was sexually bored with his wife. She cheated because she was feeling old and unattractive. He cheated because his self esteem was low.

I am not sure how much there is to learn when we look at the situation as the cheater being some poor soul who was living a nightmare with the totally uninvolved and uncaring spouse and had no choice but to turn to the 'other' woman/man? From the majority of 'other woman/man' posts, that is what we are to assume.

Is that realistic?

I don't think so. Every thing I have ever read, from professionals who have no bias, tells me that cheating has much more to do with the actual cheater than their environment. It usually has more to do with their low self esteem and their inability to communicate with their spouse. *I am in no way saying that cheaters are living with saints who are masters of communication* But, where is the accountability on the part of the cheaters? After all, they can divorce and not stray if things are that bad. And the very fact that they choose to get involved in an affair rather than end the 'dead marriage', doesn't that say somethig too?

I guess I just don't know what there is to learn from the 'devil made me do it' argument. IMO, we are not victims of our environment. There are plenty of things that 'happen to us' like illness. Becoming involved in an affair while you are married does not just happen to you. A dead marriage does not just happen to you.

There are choices you made along the way that make you an integral part of that situation.

The subject is complex, I think we cannot get a true picture without all parties having an opportunity to give their perspective. That is obviously not something we can do here. Sure would be interesting though, to get all the different POV from one situation.

Which brings me back to one of the many reasons I think becoming the 'other woman' is such a mistake. If you are only getting your information from the person who is cheating, they are so biased and have such incentive to paint a picture that makes them look good...well, it seems unrealistic to think that they are being totally honest with you.

JMHO

 

[OceanAnnie]

Poohandwendy, I have to say great post! Wise words indeed.

 

[lissawynn]

 

[minniepumpernickel]

I would too, it's interesting. But we are merely scratching the surface here, IMHO.

One thing that I notice is that noone, personally involved in an affair, ever says, well he cheated because he didn't know how to communicate with his wife. She cheated because she wanted some excitement in her life and didn't know how to get it in her marriage. He cheated because he was sexually bored with his wife. She cheated because she was feeling old and unattractive. He cheated because his self esteem was low.

I am not sure how much there is to learn when we look at the situation as the cheater being some poor soul who was living a nightmare with the totally uninvolved and uncaring spouse and had no choice but to turn to the 'other' woman/man? From the majority of 'other woman/man' posts, that is what we are to assume.

Is that realistic?

I don't think so. Every thing I have ever read, from professionals who have no bias, tells me that cheating has much more to do with the actual cheater than their environment. It usually has more to do with their low self esteem and their inability to communicate with their spouse. *I am in no way saying that cheaters are living with saints who are masters of communication* But, where is the accountability on the part of the cheaters? After all, they can divorce and not stray if things are that bad. And the very fact that they choose to get involved in an affair rather than end the 'dead marriage', doesn't that say somethig too?

I guess I just don't know what there is to learn from the 'devil made me do it' argument. IMO, we are not victims of our environment. There are plenty of things that 'happen to us' like illness. Becoming involved in an affair while you are married does not just happen to you. A dead marriage does not just happen to you.

There are choices you made along the way that make you an integral part of that situation.

The subject is complex, I think we cannot get a true picture without all parties having an opportunity to give their perspective. That is obviously not something we can do here. Sure would be interesting though, to get all the different POV from one situation.

Which brings me back to one of the many reasons I think becoming the 'other woman' is such a mistake. If you are only getting your information from the person who is cheating, they are so biased and have such incentive to paint a picture that makes them look good...well, it seems unrealistic to think that they are being totally honest with you.

JMHO

We've heard your perspective over and over again. Isn't it partially your responsibility to know your partner too? I don't mean you personally. I guess none of this stuff happens in a vacuum. Notice how when the chastising starts the rest of us stop posting.

oy vey!

 

[Christine]

From what I've seen, it seems that people who get involved in this are very "mismatched" in their marriages. Sometimes I wonder how people end up in this relationships, and then I meet their spouse and usually I get my answer. Not that the spouse is a wacko or anything, it will just seem that they aren't really matched well as a couple.

I know this doesn't really explain anything or all affairs but I guess there are just some people that really don't belong with each other and, unfortunately, didn't recognize that. I think for every affair, there is probably a very unique story or twist.

 

[poohandwendy]

We've heard your perspective over and over again.

Funny thing is, there is no 'your perspective', it's not like the cheater, the other woman/man and the betrayed spouse are different species. We can all live one or more of the roles at different times in our lives. Many here have.

Isn't it partially your responsibility to know your partner too?

Absolutely. I would never say that it doesn't take 2 people to blow it when it comes to marriage (actually, that is my point). But, the person who secretly enters into an affair has added a component that makes working on the relationship all the more difficult. Most often, they aren't announcing it so the spouse it at a disadvantage they don't even know about.

I guess none of this stuff happens in a vacuum.

ITA, it doesn't.

Notice how when the chastising starts the rest of us stop posting.

I am not chastising anyone. I am discussing the dynamics of extramarital affairs. Hopefully this thread can get back to that.

 

[MsDisney23]

Oh yes.... still am... I hope Minnie does not find out.. What can I say. Those ears and that tail just do something to me....

 

[auntpolly]

I am not sure how much there is to learn when we look at the situation as the cheater being some poor soul who was living a nightmare with the totally uninvolved and uncaring spouse and had no choice but to turn to the 'other' woman/man? From the majority of 'other woman/man' posts, that is what we are to assume.



JMHO

Since it's not going to stop happening any time soon and I'd like to preserve my own marriage (there's allllloooootttt of cheatin' going on in my age bracket these days) I'd say we have a few things to learn. What good does it do to just say - well, if he cheats it wasn't my fault!!!!

 

[caitycaity]

i was once the other woman - however the people involved were not married or even engaged - just seriously dating. i didn't know i was the other woman until one time when i was over at the guy's apt his girlfriend called. it wasn't any kind of serious involvement for either of us, but i didn't know he already had a girlfriend (long distance).

 

[poohandwendy]

What good does it do to just say - well, if he cheats it wasn't my fault!!!!

Actually, if he cheats, it IS his fault. The actions of a person fall squarely on themselves. Now, where the relationship was when it started and before...that is another story and the spouse does share responsibility for that.

So, the question is how do you avoid an affair? That is a complicated question.

Well, the other woman/man can't stop it, it's really not the responsibility of the world to protect 'your' marriage. We can yell, kick and scream...but if it weren't them, it would be someone else. It's not like there isn't always going to be someone who will lend and ear and open their heart.

IMO, both spouses have to be interested in keeping the marriage alive. Also, they both have to be committed to NOT roaming when they feel disillusioned. It's easy to stray, IMHO, much harder to keep the home fires burning.

 

[auntpolly]

Actually, if he cheats, it IS his fault.

That's not what I said -

I said what good does it do to just say that?

If you want out of the marriage it's all you need to say, I guess. But I've seen a lot of what I considered to be good men go down that path recently. Maybe it's just the way of the world and will never change, I don't know.

 

[Teejay32]

good men aren't perfect.

Could it be you're just noticing it now?

 

[Lisa F]

If you want out of the marriage it's all you need to say, I guess. But I've seen a lot of what I considered to be good men go down that path recently. Maybe it's just the way of the world and will never change, I don't know.

Or maybe they're not such good men. I don't know, on my list of things that make a good man honesty, courage and fidelity are pretty high up there. Someone who can't be honest with his spouse and runs around behind her back because he doesn't have the cahones to "be a man" and own up to his vows (or do what he has to do in order to mutually dissolve the agreement he made to his spouse) isn't much of a man IMO. He's a little boy who has a lot of growing up to do. Good men take responsibility for their lives. Little boys do what feels good regardless of who they hurt in the process.

 

[poohandwendy]

That's not what I said -

I said what good does it do to say that?

If you want out of the marriage it's all you need to say, I guess. But I've seen a lot of what I considered to be good men go down that path recently. Maybe it's just the way of the world and will never change, I don't know.

Sorry, I should have clarified. I did understand your point.

I think the important thing, is the cheater accepting responsibility for his/her ACTIONS (which is the affair) and then ALSO you both facing what was seriously missing in your relationship. IMO, they are separate things. One may have set the stage in many ways, but the actions are the responsibility of the actor. If the cheater cannot accept their responsibility, things will never change. If they continue to feel justified, they will feel justified the next time things aren't so great. Affairs are always about the cheater feeling justified to break their vows. IMO, you need to get to a place where you do not justify walking away from your committment.

That is what marriage is about, weathering the storms without turning your back. So, IMO, both spouses need to do some serious reflecting and work on the marriage.

Does that make any sense?

 

[Lisa F]

good men aren't perfect.

Everyone makes mistakes, but IMO a good person is one who takes responsibility for their mistakes. Continuing to carry on a relationship outside of your marriage does not qualify as "taking responsibility for your mistakes." Perfection? No. But there's only so far "well I'm not perfect" can go as an excuse.