Are any Disney guests average income people?

[PamNC]

if the "average" income stated is correct, I am above that for sure BUT at this point I still have to really budget for my trips. I live about 9 hours away so I can easily do long weekends. I was there a couple weeks ago and bought an AP for the first time in FOREVER - so I'm hoping that'll help me out because I can stay offsite and not pay for parking at the parks. Years ago when I was married, my husband and I were NOT making a lot of money but we went 2x a year and ate at the nice restaurants... had AP's... stayed on site. It was affordable even at our little bitty salaries. Now, with my GOOD salary, I don't typically do a nice sit down restaurant when I go and if I do, only one. Kinda' sad. But, I still go LOL .....it's my happy place. I've been staying offsite more and more I'll tell you that.

 

[JodieJRanch]

Seems like the podcast gang has been pretty down about Disney offering less while charging more. Also seems like they (and many on message boards) are talking a lot about average guests being priced out and a Disney vacation being exclusive to only high income earners. I would argue a Disney vacation has been too expensive for the vast majority of Americans for the past 20+ years. Where has the outrage been? Is It because now more of us are now part of that majority? I’m really interested in hearing how you all feel. It just bums me out when people only get fired up when a pricing issue finally affects them. By the way, when you can barely walk through a park due to crowds (my experience at Dsneyland in July) management would not be doing their job if they didn’t raise prices.

Sorry late to this party, but if the Disney Parks were affordable for everyone, the fire marshal would have to close the gates by 10:00 am every morning. At some point, Disney would require a reservation system, probably requiring an appointment years in advance to get in. Keeping prices artificially low, Disney would essentially be run like the government. After a while, Disney couldn't afford to keep the parks up to the standards that they have now. More and more rides would go down for longer periods of time. There would be fewer innovations, fewer new attractions. There's no doubt in my mind that Disney is catering to the people who stay on property. They're the ones that pay the bills. In Disney mind, "Locals-day trippers-annual pass holders", do nothing but clog the parks and detract from the experience of their "on property guest". The Fast Pass+ system exacerbated that problem. That's one of the reasons FP+ is being changed.

 

[KatheeME]

30 minutes at every park every day and evening hours for Deluxe guests is a net add. This will cost Disney more in labor to operate than the old one park per day. This is a change but I don't consider it a cut.

Is most certainly a cut to me and my family, as we always stay at Pop.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Is most certainly a cut to me and my family, as we always stay at Pop.

30 minutes at every park is still more being offered than one hour at a single park, even if you're not in a deluxe resort with access to the evening time.

 

[CBMom01]

Sorry late to this party, but if the Disney Parks were affordable for everyone, the fire marshal would have to close the gates by 10:00 am every morning. At some point, Disney would require a reservation system, probably requiring an appointment years in advance to get in. Keeping prices artificially low, Disney would essentially be run like the government. After a while, Disney couldn't afford to keep the parks up to the standards that they have now. More and more rides would go down for longer periods of time. There would be fewer innovations, fewer new attractions. There's no doubt in my mind that Disney is catering to the people who stay on property. They're the ones that pay the bills. In Disney mind, "Locals-day trippers-annual pass holders", do nothing but clog the parks and detract from the experience of their "on property guest". The Fast Pass+ system exacerbated that problem. That's one of the reasons FP+ is being changed.

If most of the visitors to Disney world were local day trippers it would be Six Flags, not Disney World. Can't speak for DL, which probably has a different mix.
I moved our reservation to a deluxe because of it, so if that’s their intent I’m anecdotal evidence that it’s working

 

[CBMom01]

Oops. Had an old response in there that I forgot about

 

[KatheeME]

30 minutes at every park is still more being offered than one hour at a single park, even if you're not in a deluxe resort with access to the evening time.

We no longer have access to EMH in the evenings, a cut.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

We no longer have access to EMH in the evenings, a cut.

A change, not a cut. You used to get 4 mornings of EMH and 3 evenings of EMH per week. Now you get 7 mornings of EMH. It's shorter, but you get it at every park, not just one per day. Getting less of one thing and more of something else is not a net "cut."

 

[ZellyB]

And for the "average family" to try to create what those commercials are portraying is even more absurdly priced. There's just no way currently to have that fantasy without a LOT of $$$. (Yes, I know you can discount certain things here and there-I'm talking about the commercials dreams now)

Well, if somebody believes that they could ever live the commercial dream of any company, I've got a bridge to sell them. Disney isn't unique in how they advertise their parks. How many cruise commercials have you seen of near empty pools and hot tubs? How many commercials for a toy doing extraordinary things with tiny print at the bottom saying, "Ken doll doesn't actually fly"? That type of fantasy commercial is common in our society and I don't think the majority of average income people really believe they will walk down an empty main street and get pictures of that in front of the castle.

Disney is and, has always been an relatively expensive vacation. It is certainly outpacing income increases but so is pretty much everything. Look at rent, gas, food costs from 20 years ago as a percentage of median income. Disney's curve is likely steeper but it's not unique. I would argue that an average income family can still manage the cost of a Disney vacation but likely not the same way they could have 20 years ago. But, if you drive, stay off site, eat meals off site or bring food into the park, it can be done at a reasonable cost compared to other vacations. Can the average income person stay at the Poly and eat every meal at TS restaurants and do extra dessert parties? Probably not. But, you can still go and for the cost of admission still enjoy the magic. If I'm not actively looking for the discrepancies, I likely don't notice. Yes, I'll notice LL people going ahead of me, but I'll notice that at pretty much every other amusement park in the world these days. So, I'm just not sure that for the average park goer they notice these "class" issues like those of us who are tuned into Disney info are likely to notice.

 

[KatheeME]

A change, not a cut. You used to get 4 mornings of EMH and 3 evenings of EMH per week. Now you get 7 mornings of EMH. It's shorter, but you get it at every park, not just one per day. Getting less of one thing and more of something else is not a net "cut."

No, it is a cut to what is available to those like myself who stay in a value. I am not doing any math, I am stating a loss in my experience.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

No, it is a cut to what is available to those like myself who stay in a value. I am not doing any math, I am stating a loss in my experience.

@CaptainAmerica point is that as a value guest, you are gaining access to EMH at 3 parks per day. This spreads out the guests amongst the parks rather than bringing them all to the same park. In theory, their will be 25% of the guests at your park during EMH. So even though you are getting 50% of the time, you are also dealing with 25% of the crowds

 

[DonMacGregor]

As a kid growing up in Anaheim in the 70's and early 80's (and a 10+ year cast member in my late teens and 20's), we went to Disneyland as a family once a year. We might add a visit for one of the many night time private parties they had back then (an aunt worked for B of A and an uncle was at Xerox), but that was it. Other vacations were road trips up and down California with nights at Motel 6 for me, my mom, dad, and two sisters.

We were by no means "underprivileged". We went to parochial elementary and high schools and our dad owned his own plumbing company. Even in the late 70's, a trip to Disneyland (a literal 5 minute drive from home) was not a casual affair, and there were LOTS of kids in Orange County that didn't see the Park even every 3rd or 4th year (or ever). Kids in Anaheim, Santa Ana, Garden Grove, etc. who's families just couldn't afford to budget "trips" to The Happiest Place on Earth (in fact, one of the poorest areas of Anaheim back then, the Jeffrey-Lynn neighborhood is right across the street from the DLH). Back then, there were tons of discount tickets available too for schools and other groups and often times that was the only way a kid would get to go to the Park, and unless their parent was a chaperone, they may have been going to Disney WITHOUT their whole family. Oh, and we ALL had a drawer or box at home filled with all the unused ticket books because you weren't letting THOSE go to waste.

I guess I bring this all up to illustrate my belief that a Disney trip (whether it's a day trip to Disneyland, or a week-long visit to WDW for a family from Omaha) has never been a simple matter for many, of just waking on Saturday and heading off to see the mouse. I have a strong feeling that it's not a question of whether Disney has grown too expensive for the "average" family, but more has it become too expensive for "my" family, and has been stated above much of that depends on how YOU like to do Disney and how OFTEN you like to do Disney.

I also feel there may be some serious rose colored glasses being worn by some folks. While I remember the trips most vividly because I'm the oldest, my youngest sister couldn't tell you one thing about budgeting, how often we did or didn't go, getting our hands stamped to go outside the Park to eat dinner, etc. For her, they are just Disneyland memories and fading photographs. I wonder how many people going to DL or WDW today really "remember", personally, what a Disney vacation really entailed, cost-wise, 25 or 30 years ago.

 

[Magical2017]

We manage to travel by saving and using points/miles. My kids prefer Universal now. It is easier on the wallet as the premiere resorts with an annual pass discount are about what I'd pay for a mod at Disney, plus I can walk and the unlimited express passes were included. Loewe's has excellent customer service and we enjoyed Portofino Bay.

Most of our trips are moderately priced due to our ability to either use miles for airfare or drive to the destination. The exception is a trip to Europe that has postponed due to COVID. This is going to be significantly more than a Disney trip simply because we are not using miles for all four of us, plan to stay much longer than we would for a theme park vacation, and plan to have private guides for part of the trip.

Our last Disney trip was offsite. It was a significant savings to switch and well-worth it as we booked another full-week's vacation with the savings.

 

[Brett Wyman]

There are plenty of "average" income people visiting Disney. They make it work somehow.

 

[SirDuff]

@CaptainAmerica point is that as a value guest, you are gaining access to EMH at 3 parks per day. This spreads out the guests amongst the parks rather than bringing them all to the same park. In theory, their will be 25% of the guests at your park during EMH. So even though you are getting 50% of the time, you are also dealing with 25% of the crowds

But they are getting much less than 50% of the time. The morning slots are shorter and they lose the evening slots entirely. It’s a total of 210 minutes now (30 minutes times 7 days) versus 600 minutes (60 minutes times 4 days plus 120 minutes times 3 days) - they’re getting about 35% of the time. Though I’m blanking if evening hours were two or three hours (I went with two to be conservative in the time lost).

 

[CanadaDisney05]

But they are getting much less than 50% of the time. The morning slots are shorter and they lose the evening slots entirely. It’s a total of 210 minutes now (30 minutes times 7 days) versus 600 minutes (60 minutes times 4 days plus 120 minutes times 3 days) - they’re getting about 35% of the time. Though I’m blanking if evening hours were two or three hours (I went with two to be conservative in the time lost).

I dont remember the exact hours from before, but let's use your 600 minutes for this example. Because the crowds are being split, you will theoretically be able to complete the same amount in 150 minutes.

210 > 150

Whether this holds true still remains to be seen. But the point again isn't simply that they removed a benefit. The replaced a benefit with something different. Whether it's better or worst really depends on your personal circumstance.

 

[Jonfw2]

I think it can be done. But you either have to choose between making it a once in a lifetime trip or sacrificing in other areas of your life- like doing anything at all other than Disney. Including saving for retirement.

 

[bsmcneil]

This is what I think gets lost on this board. WDW is expensive, but the alternatives have also gotten a lot more expensive. It all depends what your comparing it to.

A 3 day camping trip locally is significantly less than 7 days at wdw.

A 3 day trip to a large domestic city, is probably cheaper than 7 days at WDW.

A 7 day trip in a large domestic city is probably on par with a 7 day trip at WDW (anyone who says it's much cheaper is probably ignoring costs such has entertainment).

A 7 day cruise/all inclusive is probably on par with a 7 day wdw trip.

A 14 day European vacation is probably significantly more expensive than a wdw vacation (especially once you factor in entertainment costs, and exchange rate).

Last year, I priced out a 7-day Euro trip, 7-day Hawaii trip, and a 7-day WDW trip (for 1 person, and timing basically around spring break). Euro was cheapest, WDW, and then Hawaii.

 

[fumanchu2488]

I think it can be done. But you either have to choose between making it a once in a lifetime trip or sacrificing in other areas of your life- like doing anything at all other than Disney. Including saving for retirement.

Agree. 'Income' is a bad metric to use because spending habits do not correlate directly to income. I think it is a value proposition that is ever changing. People may have a 2019 budget of $6,000 for their family vacation. If the same exact vacation (i.e. hotel, park tickets, meals, attractions, merch, travel etc...) costs $8,000 in 2022, will that family be able and willing to pay? Well if you assume inflation over those 3 years has been somewhere in the 5% per year range with COVID, the equivalent cost in 2022 is $7,000. So that means Disney outpaced inflation and now the same vacation is an inflation adjusted $1,000 more expensive.

Now lets say that Disney has taken away what was once included. Magical Express has a 'value' to people and that value is different for different families. For me, I heavily relied on DME because with two young kids it saved me from needing to rent a car, car seats, baggage handling, etc.... For others, maybe they never used DME so it isn't a big loss. Thats going to cost me $150 or so. I just spent $40 on Magic Bands that were free before. You don't 'need' magic bands anymore but I thought it was a nice touch and now pay for it.

In short, I think the question on breaking point where people can no longer afford a vacation cannot be answered through numbers or looking at income. It is an art and very unique to each individual family.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

Last year, I priced out a 7-day Euro trip, 7-day Hawaii trip, and a 7-day WDW trip (for 1 person, and timing basically around spring break). Euro was cheapest, WDW, and then Hawaii.

What was factored in the euro trip?

Flight? Hotel? Transportation? Food? Entertainment? Foreign exchange?

What was factored in the WDW trip?

Deluxe, moderate, value, or offsite hotel? Flight? Quick service, table service, signature dining, or dining plan? Single day tickets, park hoppers, after hour events, tours? Rental car, Disney transportation, parking?

Just curious because there are so many variables that go into the equation and it's important to ensure we are discussing apples to apples comparisons.