Are "After Hours" and "Early Morning Magic" Cutting Into Regular Hours?-Analytics (Long)

[lovethattink]

Great to hear this. I agree 100% that both positive and negative thoughts/opinions/experiences help people plan their WDW trips.

After lurking for years, I started posting to the DISboards before my first trip with FP+. I wanted to hear why people loved FP+, why people hated it, both the benefits and the shortcomings, and how people were adjusting their touring plans to utilize FP+ most effectively. My trip was a success thanks in part to reading negative reviews on the DISboards. I read the complaints of people who toured the parks like I did, and planned accordingly. Without those criticisms from people with supposed "negative agendas", I would have been less prepared and likely disappointed.

Regarding this thread, it's great to see someone compiling actual data on park hours. And I'm all in favor of healthy speculation into the reasons behind Disney's changes, and predicting what might be coming in the future for my next trip. But the argument "if you don't like it, don't go" doesn't add much to the discussion. If people who express a negative opinion criticizing Disney are going to be attacked, the DISboards becomes a lot less useful as a trip-planning tool.

I'm glad the DISboards helped with your planning!

Yes, I think it's great to see the comparison between the years. And found it interesting that EMH remained the same last year to this year!

I agree, a little friendliness can go a long way. An unfriendly post brings the whole vibe down. We don't all have to agree with each other, but each posters feeling (negative or positive) is valid.

 

[whiporee]

Too aggressive. Sorry

 

[lovethattink]

Are you trying to suggest the tenor of your post was not that Disney sucks? Even if you didn't use the word suck, you said you've stopped going and your opinions have "caused others to reconsider their plans." You say you are staying away until they right the ship -- all of that is implication that in your opinion, Disney sucks. You can couch it in different words if you like, but that's the gist of it. And there's nothing wrong with that opinion, but if you make it, you ought to expect to be questioned about it, just like I've been when I'm supportive of the parks and their philosophy. I don't know why those with negative opinions think they should be exempt from being questioned -- the motivations of those with positive opinions are routinely cast into doubt.

That said, i was overly aggressive in my response to you, and for that I apologize. But here's the thing, there's not a lot of actual empirical evidence to back up your underlying statement that there's a real issue, and this particular thread has been filled with facts. You said over the last two year you've become frustrated with the direction the parks are going, but you provide no facts about what those frustrations are based on. This thread has pointed out that WDW's hours AREN'T significantly different from last year, and others have pointed out that WDW's hours aren't significantly different than they've been over the past five. Slightly, sure. But significantly, no. So are you frustrated that once a week Disney decided to offer a late night option on nights that they historically had been closed? That some meet and greets have been replaced with other meet and greets? What?

Many people have said "if you don't like it don't go" adds nothing to the discussion. I'd counter with "I don't like these changes and I've stopped going" adds nothing, either. If anyone has a point to make, they should make it. If someone wants to say they've stopped going they should say it. But to suggest one blanket statement has merit has value and another doesn't isn't fair. This thread was started and based on facts and analysis of those facts. If someone has insight to bring they should. But just saying the direction of the parks is bad isn't insight, it's just parroting.

It's stating an opinion. And opinions do not need to be based on facts, they can be based on feelings.

 

[JimmyV]

This thread has pointed out that WDW's hours AREN'T significantly different from last year,

I would caution against characterizing the changes as: "ARE significantly different" or "AREN'T significantly different". Over the small slice of time analyzed in this thread, the aggregate loss of "Included" hours was either 24 (if you take into account the 24 hour event), or 16 (if you adjust the 24 hour event day down to a "normal" day). To some, the loss of 24 (or 16) hours is significant. To others it is not. "Significance" is a personal opinion and not something that this thread has attempted to point out.

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

So on a similar thread I mentioned us considering an August trip, but that we weren't willing to commit unless the hours were expanded. We like evening touring and parks closing at 10pm doesn't give us enough time to tour as we would like. Another poster suggested e-mailing Disney and I got a response today that was interesting....

"It is through feedback, like yours, that we learn what we must do to ensure the Disney magic is preserved for everyone."

Maybe I've been on Disboards too much, but I feel like management is really trying to toe that line to take away as much as they can without "undoing" the Disney magic/losing customers. It seems to be contrary to the Disney of past years where it was always a goal to make it more and more magical rather than "preserve just enough Disney magic."

I, for one, am disappointed with shortened hours since evening touring is some of our dearest and most of our highlight reel takes place after 10pm.

 

[whiporee]

It's stating an opinion. And opinions do not need to be based on facts, they can be based on feelings.

I don't know about that. I think for an opinion to have merit in an argument, it ought to be based on more than a feeling -- it ought to have something substantive to back it up. Otherwise we're just throwing feeling back and forth at each other, and that really does add nothing to a conversation.

 

[whiporee]

I would caution against characterizing the changes as: "ARE significantly different" or "AREN'T significantly different". Over the small slice of time analyzed in this thread, the aggregate loss of "Included" hours was either 24 (if you take into account the 24 hour event), or 16 (if you adjust the 24 hour event day down to a "normal" day). To some, the loss of 24 (or 16) hours is significant. To others it is not. "Significance" is a personal opinion and not something that this thread has attempted to point out.

Fair enough. But I also think it's fair to point out that the losses haven't been "catastrophic," as many have suggested they are. 16 hours over six weeks is a loss, but it's less than an hour at the end of the day.

But your point is well taken. Thanks again for the compilation.

 

[WillAustin]

I would caution against characterizing the changes as: "ARE significantly different" or "AREN'T significantly different". Over the small slice of time analyzed in this thread, the aggregate loss of "Included" hours was either 24 (if you take into account the 24 hour event), or 16 (if you adjust the 24 hour event day down to a "normal" day). To some, the loss of 24 (or 16) hours is significant. To others it is not. "Significance" is a personal opinion and not something that this thread has attempted to point out.

I agree. On my limited vacation time, 1 or 2 hours less park time could be significant to me. Honestly it could be the difference between getting on a certain ride or seeing a certain show depending on our plans.

And in the larger picture, getting less than I did before, for more money, doesn't sit well with me.

 

[JimmyV]

And in the larger picture, getting less than I did before, for more money, doesn't sit well with me.

There is no doubt that the increase in ticket prices has acted as a magnifier for "Significance".

• Shrink the size of the candy bar and charge the same = annoyance
• Shrink the size of the candy bar and raise the price = storm the castle.

 

[DisneyFive]

Maybe this is exactly what's happening with the drop in attendance.

Has there been a drop in attendance recently? Is there a recent thread discussing that? Thanks.

Dan

 

[lovethattink]

Has there been a drop in attendance recently? Is there a recent thread discussing that? Thanks.

Dan

There's this one http://www.disboards.com/threads/attendance-down-revenue-up.3509689/

 

[Boski]

Has there been a drop in attendance recently? Is there a recent thread discussing that? Thanks.

Dan

1/10, you can do better.

 

[dlavender]

Taking a look at June YOY:

June 1-30th 2015 - 469 Included hours + 12 EMH = 481
June 1-30th 2016 - 425 Included hours + 14 EMH = 439

That's gotta sting...

Keep in mind that June is still subject to change, but the hours were just updated today.... YOY its a loss of 42 hours. An entire work week.

 

[Disneyliscious]

I really enjoy it when someone takes the time to put something like this together. Thanks for making this out to be more clear for us all, JimmyV!

 

[JimmyV]

Keep in mind that June is still subject to change

I assume that most of the lost hours come at the end of the day. It will be interesting to see what becomes of DAH. At least for most of April and much of May, people were able to buy back three hours per week. So far, nothing is on the books for June, so lost hours are lost hours. And DAH is certainly not to blame, so the money grab conspiracy theorists can douse their torches and put away their pitchforks. But perhaps the decrease in hours without any ability to buy them back is even more pernicious.

 

[dlavender]

I assume that most of the lost hours come at the end of the day. It will be interesting to see what becomes of DAH. At least for most of April and much of May, people were able to buy back three hours per week. So far, nothing is on the books for June, so lost hours are lost hours. And DAH is certainly not to blame, so the money grab conspiracy theorists can douse their torches and put away their pitchforks. But perhaps the decrease in hours without any ability to buy them back is even more pernicious.

You can buy back 10 hours in the form of 8 "early morning magic" mornings. Still does not bring it close to 2015's hours, giving a loss of 32 hours YOY.

 

[JimmyV]

You can buy back 10 hours in the form of 8 "early morning magic" mornings. Still does not bring it close to 2015's hours, giving a loss of 32 hours YOY.

And given the nature of the morning event, I cannot imagine anyone doing this twice, let alone three times in the same trip. That would call for some sort of intervention, I would think.

 

[dlavender]

I assume that most of the lost hours come at the end of the day.

This is correct. In 2015 MK opened at 8 AM 11 times. In 2016 there are 0 scheduled openings before 9 AM. So 11 hours from the morning slot - 10 can be purchased back. The other 31 hours are from night time hours, currently not available for sale.

For a fair comparison, there were only 4 8 AM openings in 2015 that were on a Tuesday or Saturday. So we could blame Early morning magic for "stealing" 4 hours if we wanted to....

Relight the torches.

 

[The_Dude]

I've been lurking for a long time but this thread made me finally muster up the initiative to post. Thank you for taking the time to research and present your findings. I, for one, find the results disturbing and think that no matter how you feel about recent changes it has to be the slightest bit disappointing to think that cost is winning out over reward when it comes to these decisions.

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

I've been lurking for a long time but this thread made me finally muster up the initiative to post. Thank you for taking the time to research and present your findings. I, for one, find the results disturbing and think that no matter how you feel about recent changes it has to be the slightest bit disappointing to think that cost is winning out over reward when it comes to these decisions.

And yes, it is disappointing that they seem to be putting cost cutting above any other techniques to increase profits.