AP's to get 20 FP+ per quarter

[KrazeeK120]

~Intially, the DDP was excellent, the guest always came out ahead, with great food, too! But, guests abused the loopholes SO bad, where Disney was losing a ton of money on it, I'm talking widespread rampant abuse.

~Whenever a loophole that has been widely abused is discovered, it is a standard corporate practice to drastically cut costs and impose drastic measures in order to recoup the estimated loss, in addition to making a profit.

~So, instead of abandoning a popular, profitable concept altogether, Disney dumbed the DDP down, just for profits.

~Refillable mugs are now getting RFID! That's so drastic to me, but when things are continually abused, this is the end result. I don't use refillable mugs, it's just an observation.

~The concierge lounges used to give out free bottled water, but guests abused that, now it's gone.

~Disney was not happy with late FP use, I have no problem saying this, because I used fastpasses late and it was awesome, but wrong is wrong!

~There has to accountability on both sides, as both can be equally greedy.

Can you specify what you mean about "loopholes" in the DDP? It always seemed pretty cut and dry to me.

I can understand the RFID thing on the mugs. They would be easy to abuse.

If Disney was not happy with the late FP use, then maybe they should have instructed the CMs better. From what I understand, CMs routinely told people it was OK to come back late. The time on the FP didn't seem to be a hard and fast rule, even to the people that WORK there, so I don't see how late usage can be deemed "abuse." If they want to enforce FP return times, that's fine, but I can't think that's the reason behind going to FP+.

It'll be interesting to see what the final iteration of FP+ looks like and if it actually makes them any money. Based on what I've seen so far, I don't think it will make most guests very happy, but I'll reserve further speculation until the final word comes out.

 

[Laketravis]

Nexgen.....xPass.....FastPass+

What ever happened to talking Mickey? He made a short debut last year and nothing since.

Disney has made it clear they are fine with lower attendance numbers if it comes via fewer discounts and higher per-guest revenue numbers.

Makes sense to me. 5,000 guests at $100 each will have a much better experience than 10,000 guests at $50 each. Oh, wait - didn't WDW already figure that out by further monetizing explicit park hours and promoting it as an exclusive "party" ?

I applaud them for not (yet) following the SF/Universal model of charging for prioritized access (FlashPass, etc). So far, all of their queuing strategies are included in the ticket price.

FastPass+ is exactly what others have eloquently explained - a means to spread people out over a bunch of attractions they probably wouldn't have spent any time on, in effect preventing them from concentrating to heavily on the smaller number of premium ones.

I wonder if, in the process, they won't give proper consideration to just how much of a factor being able to ride a favorite attraction multiple times IS the "experience" that matters most to many.

Personally, I'm not one who would be willing to trade six or more same day Fast Pass rides on Space Mountain for one Space Mountain, one Haunted Mansion, one Parade Viewing, one character Meet & Greet, and five 60 minute Standby wait times for Space Mountain.

And that's what FP+ is going to require me to do. Only time will tell if I'm in the minority or the majority.

 

[DebbieB]

Can you specify what you mean about "loopholes" in the DDP? It always seemed pretty cut and dry to me.

I can understand the RFID thing on the mugs. They would be easy to abuse.

If Disney was not happy with the late FP use, then maybe they should have instructed the CMs better. From what I understand, CMs routinely told people it was OK to come back late. The time on the FP didn't seem to be a hard and fast rule, even to the people that WORK there, so I don't see how late usage can be deemed "abuse." If they want to enforce FP return times, that's fine, but I can't think that's the reason behind going to FP+.

It'll be interesting to see what the final iteration of FP+ looks like and if it actually makes them any money. Based on what I've seen so far, I don't think it will make most guests very happy, but I'll reserve further speculation until the final word comes out.

One "loophole" I recall with DDP was using children's credits for adult meals, they used to pool the credits.

I'm not going to pass judgement on FP+ until the official details come out.

 

[rapunzels]

While not a loophole, a total steal on the dining plan was the snack credits. I can remember a few years back when my girls were younger, I could get an entire quart of milk for 1 snack credit. Now they get little bottles or 1 serving cartons.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

Can you specify what you mean about "loopholes" in the DDP? It always seemed pretty cut and dry to me.

I can understand the RFID thing on the mugs. They would be easy to abuse.

If Disney was not happy with the late FP use, then maybe they should have instructed the CMs better. From what I understand, CMs routinely told people it was OK to come back late. The time on the FP didn't seem to be a hard and fast rule, even to the people that WORK there, so I don't see how late usage can be deemed "abuse." If they want to enforce FP return times, that's fine, but I can't think that's the reason behind going to FP+.

It'll be interesting to see what the final iteration of FP+ looks like and if it actually makes them any money. Based on what I've seen so far, I don't think it will make most guests very happy, but I'll reserve further speculation until the final word comes out.

~When DDP, first rolled out the system did not distinguish child credits from adults credits, so people widely abused that. The system would also allow milkshakes as drinks at some places. The system also did not distinguish the snacks properly. The snack credits were intended to be used for "individual" snacks, and guests were getting whole cartons of milk and 12 dozen donuts, etc. Then there was the waste -- guests were wasting tons of food.

~I don't think Disney expected guests to max out the dining plan -- everyone ordered the most expensive item on the menu for every meal, primarily steak and lobster. But, I don't consider this part to be an abuse, Disney just wasn't prepared for it and as a result most of the good steak and lobster have been removed from the menus.

~I used fastpass late, and for the most part I didn't think I was doing anything wrong. Truthfully, I was pretty nervous every time we showed up at an attraction with a late fastpass, and a huge relief when the CM let us through.

 

[bcrook]

I shouldn't have brought up DDP. That was bush league - rookie mistake.

I am fascinated by the dynamics of FP+ and it is going to change touring. This has been an informative thread.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

Nexgen.....xPass.....FastPass+

What ever happened to talking Mickey? He made a short debut last year and nothing since.

Disney has made it clear they are fine with lower attendance numbers if it comes via fewer discounts and higher per-guest revenue numbers.

Makes sense to me. 5,000 guests at $100 each will have a much better experience than 10,000 guests at $50 each. Oh, wait - didn't WDW already figure that out by further monetizing explicit park hours and promoting it as an exclusive "party" ?

I applaud them for not (yet) following the SF/Universal model of charging for prioritized access (FlashPass, etc). So far, all of their queuing strategies are included in the ticket price.

FastPass+ is exactly what others have eloquently explained - a means to spread people out over a bunch of attractions they probably wouldn't have spent any time on, in effect preventing them from concentrating to heavily on the smaller number of premium ones.

I wonder if, in the process, they won't give proper consideration to just how much of a factor being able to ride a favorite attraction multiple times IS the "experience" that matters most to many.

Personally, I'm not one who would be willing to trade six or more same day Fast Pass rides on Space Mountain for one Space Mountain, one Haunted Mansion, one Parade Viewing, one character Meet & Greet, and five 60 minute Standby wait times for Space Mountain.

And that's what FP+ is going to require me to do. Only time will tell if I'm in the minority or the majority.

~I don't think Disney can ever charge a fee for fastpass. Their rides break down way too much and Disney's fastpass could never be as efficient as the smaller parks. People would be in line all day for fastpass refunds!

~Again, we don't have all of the facts, yet. Disney has to make FP+ more appealing than fastpass or else people won't use it. Disney will have to "sell" the consumer on using FP+, even though it's free! So, we'll see!

One "loophole" I recall with DDP was using children's credits for adult meals, they used to pool the credits.

I'm not going to pass judgement on FP+ until the official details come out.

~LOL. You beat me to it. Anyway, I wouldn't get too worked up over these rumors, especially this one! It's the worst one I have ever read! I didn't think anything could beat the deluxe resort only rumor! And, that was pretty much etched in stone around here. You are very smart to just sit back and relax while all of these awful rumors get debunked one by one!

While not a loophole, a total steal on the dining plan was the snack credits. I can remember a few years back when my girls were younger, I could get an entire quart of milk for 1 snack credit. Now they get little bottles or 1 serving cartons.

~I see your point, because when I was at the hotel the CM's would encourage guests to pick out whatever they wanted. I don't think it was clear whether or not this was a loophole, after reading your post, it probably wasn't. We all can agree that those were good times!

I shouldn't have brought up DDP. That was bush league - rookie mistake.

I am fascinated by the dynamics of FP+ and it is going to change touring. This has been an informative thread.

~Um, I don't see the need for an apology. Dining is an essential component of the theme park experience. Just like fastpass, the dining plan and ADR's have drastically changed, but we have adapted to the changes. That was an excellent example!

 

[sunshine girl]

Complicated, restrictive, inflexible, confusing. Based on what facts I know now, at least.

I am usually very "let's be positive" about Disney, but the idea of being able, or wanting, to always have to plan/control to this extent is totally crazy and not good to me.

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

 

[SharonS]

From what I have read, I am not looking forward to FP+. I have an ap and visit WDW 4 times per year. I don't do a lot of planning, maybe what day I will do what park, but that often changes. I also do a lot of park hopping .
I a also travel by myself, but know a lot of people down there who usually join me for part of the day. With the new system, we would only be able to do stand by for everything!

I am curious how they will handle FP+ for cms. Today, they can use FP the same as everyone.

 

[mousermerf]

From what I have read, I am not looking forward to FP+. I have an ap and visit WDW 4 times per year. I don't do a lot of planning, maybe what day I will do what park, but that often changes. I also do a lot of park hopping .
I a also travel by myself, but know a lot of people down there who usually join me for part of the day. With the new system, we would only be able to do stand by for everything!

I am curious how they will handle FP+ for cms. Today, they can use FP the same as everyone.

You could actually schedule your whole group together via the system. You'd link accounts and become the "group leader" and make FP+ reservations for everyone.

That's where the unknown limits of the flexibility would come in.. can people leave and reneenter your travel party on the same day? Dunno. You'd at least be able to schedule "some" of the day with folks.

The system as it has been setup so far seems to see the day as "Morning" "Afternoon" and "Evening." So you'd get to pick at least one of those blocks.

 

[MAGICFOR2]

Nexgen.....xPass.....FastPass+

What ever happened to talking Mickey? He made a short debut last year and nothing since.

Disney has made it clear they are fine with lower attendance numbers if it comes via fewer discounts and higher per-guest revenue numbers.

Makes sense to me. 5,000 guests at $100 each will have a much better experience than 10,000 guests at $50 each. Oh, wait - didn't WDW already figure that out by further monetizing explicit park hours and promoting it as an exclusive "party" ?

I applaud them for not (yet) following the SF/Universal model of charging for prioritized access (FlashPass, etc). So far, all of their queuing strategies are included in the ticket price.

FastPass+ is exactly what others have eloquently explained - a means to spread people out over a bunch of attractions they probably wouldn't have spent any time on, in effect preventing them from concentrating to heavily on the smaller number of premium ones.

I wonder if, in the process, they won't give proper consideration to just how much of a factor being able to ride a favorite attraction multiple times IS the "experience" that matters most to many.

Personally, I'm not one who would be willing to trade six or more same day Fast Pass rides on Space Mountain for one Space Mountain, one Haunted Mansion, one Parade Viewing, one character Meet & Greet, and five 60 minute Standby wait times for Space Mountain.

And that's what FP+ is going to require me to do. Only time will tell if I'm in the minority or the majority.

That is exactly how I feel. We don't do most of those other smaller things. If we only have time to ride our favs once during the trip, we feel like we spent alot of money for just a few minute's fun that day. In the big picture, we are making other memories, enjoying the atmosphere, etc. but we wouldn't return without kids as much if we can't do the things we want to do.

 

[mousermerf]

There is certainly going to be a transition period where guests are weened off the way they're used to doing things and park patterns are reverted back to the new "old way" of doing things.

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

Very few guests will have an RFID AP before they get to WDW for (more or less) six months to a year after
they institute the program.

Your "reservations" would be associated with your name in the computer.
The RFID-ticket could be issued upon arrival.

Thanks. As we have already activated our AP ( like many ) I guess we have to wait till we get there to be able to book FP+. I just had this worry being disabled all the time slots would be gone and I cannot queue. At the moment I use my GAC card but I can imagine Disney saying using FP+ instead but being ill I cannot predict from hour to hour if I can ride an attraction let alone months in advance so how that is going to work is a real worry. I can imagine booking lots of slots and just having them deducted due to ill health :-(

 

[Lil' Grumpy]

wowser...this thread has grown faster then jack & the bean stock.

{well, i noticed you just acted confuse but did not give any reasoning.
( we have a name for that condition). i don't think any body "buys"
that there are some always seeking loopholes.

i believe the d.-company follows certain trends and when they
see problems reaching a certain level- are motivated toward
change.

not for a second, do i think they did this to make p. holders
tick off. but just because one is not aware of things going
on , does not mean there are not happening. liked the ddp ,
is a good example.


when i read these things, i believe there are many things i am
not privileged of knowing.

and what i feeling about this , is disney is trying to help those
visiting the first time to share & participate in the "touring"
of the parks without being an expert and/or being squeeze
out because they are first timers.

i just know from the times we visited, some of our best/favorite
moments came from other guests. but i have also seen some
thinking they "own" the parks and the rules do not apply to them.
again, once it reach certain numbers is when i think disney
take actions.

until then, one must take their own actions if they are going
have any chance.....for ex., once the cm told me how crt
worked, then we had all our family, friends, co-workers
calling in. we had about 20 phones on this one mission but
i was the only one that made it.... it should not
be that way. we felt lucky, but sad when i read so many
not having them.

i have faith that disney is trying to be fair toward all their
guests & will continue to seek corrective measures.

 

[larryz]

One "loophole" I recall with DDP was using children's credits for adult meals, they used to pool the credits.

I'm not going to pass judgement on FP+ until the official details come out.

Another loophole was reserving and paying for rooms at a value, while actually staying off site, just to have access to the cheap eats.

 

[bauer1168]

Another loophole was reserving and paying for rooms at a value, while actually staying off site, just to have access to the cheap eats.

Wow people used to do that? Would they still be saving money doing that?

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

Another loophole was reserving and paying for rooms at a value, while actually staying off site, just to have access to the cheap eats.

Really? I am so shocked! I cant believe that was cheaper than buying a DDP! No wonder they removed it for value resorts!

 

[fla4fun]

There is certainly going to be a transition period where guests are weened off the way they're used to doing things and park patterns are reverted back to the new "old way" of doing things.

To be honest, the old way of doing it was that if you had enough money you could ride Space Mountain as many times as you wanted. Some of my fondest memories of going to WDW as a child in the 70's is the family sitting around debating where to use those precious few tickets (Dad would't buy any extra ones, much to our dismay).

If you look at old ticket books that come up for sale now and then, they almost always have the A and B tickets still in them. Sometimes they have the C tickets. But they seldom have the D and E tickets, because those are the attractions people wanted to visit. I would guess they had a pretty good business in selling extra E tickets at the in park ticket booths as well. Since you could buy the admission and transportation tickets separate from the attraction tickets, someone could feasibly have gone in the park and done nothing but E ticket attractions all day, if that's how they wanted to spend their money.

So the mind set hasn't really changed from where it was 40 years ago. Just because they are trying to get people to spread out in the park doesn't mean they will.

I don't really have a dog in this fight because I seldom use FP now. I stay on property a minimum of 40 nights per year, and the last FP I pulled was in 2010 (that might have been the first one as well - I don't remember any others). I think we should all just take a deep breath and wait and see what happens when the final version goes live. If they are testing now, they will tweek the system based on the data provided by the tests - so it may or may not be exactly the same as it was during testing mode. There is a lot that is just speculation and rumor at this point, and since even the few alleged facts could be changed before the official rollout, there's just no point in getting stressed out yet.

 

[Bonniec]

I've done my best to summarize the latest info on the dreaded FP+ in a somewhat concise article. Take a look.

http://www.disneyparksplanning.com/apps/blog/show/21306421-third-round-of-fastpass-concludes

Feel free to share any comments or corrections (I don't have time to read it over for spelling or typos) in the comments. Thanks and happy holidays!

Thank you, that was a nice read through. I wish I knew when they would make an announcement for it all. Our PAPs are up in March. Between the huge TIW rise, the 20% loss, and now the possibility for this....I think we might just let it lapse this time until Disney decides what they want to do.

I'm happy with the current FP system, so as long as we still have access to that I would be okay. But if they were to actually eliminate FP (per the rumors in this thread) and then only allow 20 FP+ per quarter, it would be useless to us too. Guess we will have to wait and see. Hopefully it's announced before March.

 

[Laketravis]

So the mind set hasn't really changed from where it was 40 years ago. Just because they are trying to get people to spread out in the park doesn't mean they will.

Excellent point. Guests are already motivated enough to spend 2 hours in a line for TT, Soarin, or TSM. Don't see how FP+ would change that.

Of the seven "experiences" we were "allowed" with the FP+ trial, we only redeemed four. That's not a very good utilization rate from any queuing standpoint, so the algorithms are going to have to be pretty loose to account for such a broad fuzzy factor.