Apparently I dislike FP+...alot

[wisblue]

Interesting discussion about wait times. I see that one has to decide whether touring plans or Josh know what they're doing because the results differ. Personally I'll go with Josh but of YMMV.

No, you don't have to choose because if you're willing to look at the two of them their conclusions aren't that different.

Both say that average wait times are up for some attractions and down for others and that the average wait time increase for any one attraction is no more than 10 minutes.

The biggest difference is that the Touring Plans study is more recent by a few months.

I really don't expect to change the mind of anyone who has made up their minds in advance that dramatically longer standby lines are one of the many evils of FP+. I just hope that people planning their trips might realize that the dire picture painted by some of the most vocal opponents of FP+ may not be accurate.

 

[floralmouse]

The only one totally dismissing and ignoring a reputable site, is you. You don't like what touringplans says, so you don't even consider it for a moment. You've locked on to one that confirms, you think, what you choose to believe. Not exactly the best way to know the truth.

I love Touring Plans. Because of them, I had the best vacation of my life before there was an internet to plan one on.

However, I would never, ever, discount Easy WDW and Josh.

Actually, I would lean more on Josh because his information is free whereas Touring Plans has financial gain to say that wait times aren't overly affected. I mean, if FP+ has significantly increased wait times across the board, then their line wait time reducing strategies are seen as less effectual.

And I would still use Touring Plans for any vacation I took. I used to buy the book yearly even when I didn't have a vacation planned and read the book front to back even when the information didn't change much. So to say I dismiss them would be wrong.

 

[wisblue]

I love Touring Plans. Because of them, I had the best vacation of my life before there was an internet to plan one on.

However, I would never, ever, discount Easy WDW and Josh.

Actually, I would lean more on Josh because his information is free whereas Touring Plans has financial gain to say that wait times aren't overly affected. I mean, if FP+ has significantly increased wait times across the board, then their line wait time reducing strategies are seen as less effectual.

And I would still use Touring Plans for any vacation I took. I used to buy the book yearly even when I didn't have a vacation planned and read the book front to back even when the information didn't change much. So to say I dismiss them would be wrong.

It should be clear that I am not dismissing Josh. I am trying to take all available useful information to reach a conclusion, and I put both Touring Plans and easywdw in that category.

 

[floralmouse]

It should be clear that I am not dismissing Josh. I am trying to take all available useful information to reach a conclusion, and I put both Touring Plans and easywdw in that category.

I did not think you were. At all. It's been interesting to read the opinions of TP and EasyWDW about wait times.

Regardless of wait times, I met a couple last night who own a travel agency at a trick-or-treat function at our aquarium and they didn't have much nice to say about FP+, either, and offered me a Harry Potter brochure.

 

[cakebaker]

Touring Plans has financial gain to say that wait times aren't overly affected. I mean, if FP+ has significantly increased wait times across the board, then their line wait time reducing strategies are seen as less effectual.

I think they could work it exactly the opposite- take the direction that fp+ has changed everything, you'll be lost without them and the only way to cut your waits is to use their plans.

And personally, I wouldn't deal with a company that I thought was intentionally lying in order to help their business. I don't think they are.

I also have confidence in Josh's numbers. I think if you take a fair look at the averages there, rather than just looking at a specific ride time for a specific ride, you get a much better picture of what's really going on.

I consider both of them equally. I don't think either are in opposition to each other or what my original opinion was.

To dismiss one or the other is simply wanting the facts to be what you already think.

 

[cakebaker]

I really don't expect to change the mind of anyone who has made up their minds in advance that dramatically longer standby lines are one of the many evils of FP+. I just hope that people planning their trips might realize that the dire picture painted by some of the most vocal opponents of FP+ may not be accurate.

Exactly the whole point of all of this...It matters not a bit to me if someone wants to believe that fp+ is the root of all evil, that it increases wait times to an unacceptable level and that WDW has made a horrible decision.

I do care that new people and people who haven't made up their minds and are planning a trip get a true picture of what to expect. How many threads have I read just in the last week from people who were dreading going, went and came back loving every minute?- A lot more than I've seen that didn't like it.

 

[floralmouse]

I think they could work it exactly the opposite- take the direction that fp+ has changed everything, you'll be lost without them and the only way to cut your waits is to use their plans.

And personally, I wouldn't deal with a company that I thought was intentionally lying in order to help their business. I don't think they are.

I also have confidence in Josh's numbers. I think if you take a fair look at the averages there, rather than just looking at a specific ride time for a specific ride, you get a much better picture of what's really going on.

I consider both of them equally. I don't think either are in opposition to each other or what my original opinion was.

To dismiss one or the other is simply wanting the facts to be what you already think.

:::shaking my head:::

I would have SWORN you put more emphasis and dismissed Josh's figures a few posts up and gave all the weight to TP. I must have missed something.

 

[cakebaker]

:::shaking my head:::

I would have SWORN you put more emphasis and dismissed Josh's figures a few posts up and gave all the weight to TP. I must have missed something.

No, if it sounded that way, I worded it wrong or you misunderstood. What I disagree with is not their data, but the twisting of it to fit an opinion. I think both sites are pretty much saying the same thing. You have to look at the overall picture to see that though rather than just look at one ride that increased 10 minutes and say, yup- wait times are up.

I do like the way touringplans gives reasons for their results. They go into much more detail as to how they arrived at their results. They also factor in changes in crowd levels that Josh does not. I also like that their data is much more up to date than Josh's which was done 9 months or so ago.

So I may like the way touringplans presents the data, but I still don't dismiss Josh's figures at all.

 

[itchin2go]

:::shaking my head:::

I would have SWORN you put more emphasis and dismissed Josh's figures a few posts up and gave all the weight to TP. I must have missed something.

Oh, floralmouse, welcome to my world.

If you are crazy, then I'm right there with you.

There are some posters who will utterly confound you. Try to shake it off, if at all possible.

 

[itchin2go]

How many threads have I read just in the last week from people who were dreading going, went and came back loving every minute?- A lot more than I've seen that didn't like it.

Probably the "vast majority" ... LOL.

If you say so, it must be true.

 

[wisblue]

I did not think you were. At all. It's been interesting to read the opinions of TP and EasyWDW about wait times.

Regardless of wait times, I met a couple last night who own a travel agency at a trick-or-treat function at our aquarium and they didn't have much nice to say about FP+, either, and offered me a Harry Potter brochure.

Of course if you don't want to stand in lines, The Wizarding World is not the place you want to be.

That aside, I would highly recommend the Wizarding World for anyone who loves Harry Potter.

 

[cakebaker]

Probably the "vast majority" ... LOL.

If you say so, it must be true.

It's fun to read all the people's posts, especially the first timers who come back eager to return having discovered on their own just how well fp+ works for them, despite having gone with apprehension or in some cases, preformed opinions based on things they've read.

It isn't so because I say it, the posts are there for anyone who wants to read them.

 

[Laketravis]

I just hope that people planning their trips might realize that the dire picture painted by some of the most vocal opponents of FP+ may not be accurate.

Let me fix that for you, since it can go both ways:

I just hope that people planning their trips might realize that the optimal picture painted by some of the most vocal proponents of FP+ may not be accurate.

Interesting that the first time I posted this was apparently deleted.

 

[wisblue]

Let me fix that for you, since it can go both ways:




Interesting that the first time I posted this was apparently deleted.

Yesterday some people got bent out of shape about parodies and mocking other people's opinions and that all got deleted. None of that was even directed at anyone in particular like this is. So, maybe the moderators are trying to keep the discussion on a more civil and adult level.

The issue of whether one prefers paper FP or FP+ is one of opinion based on personal preferences. But, the question of whether and how much longer standby lines are than they used to be is a question of fact, and I think it's helpful to consider as much reliable data as available. So, when someone looks at some data and extrapolates from that that a guest should expect to spend an hour or an hour and a half more in line for a day in a park than they would have a year ago (a conclusion that easywdw didn't reach) I think it helps to point out that that isn't necessarily true.

 

[Laketravis]

Yesterday some people got bent out of shape about parodies and mocking other people's opinions and that all got deleted. None of that was even directed at anyone in particular like this is. So, maybe the moderators are trying to keep the discussion on a more civil and adult level.

The issue of whether one prefers paper FP or FP+ is one of opinion based on personal preferences. But, the question of whether and how much longer standby lines are than they used to be is a question of fact, and I think it's helpful to consider as much reliable data as available. So, when someone looks at some data and extrapolates from that that a guest should expect to spend an hour or an hour and a half more in line for a day in a park than they would have a year ago (a conclusion that easywdw didn't reach) I think it helps to point out that that isn't necessarily true.

I can understand if someone complained about a post (did you?) and the moderators delete it, but I didn't receive an IM or anything about it. Which is very strange.

But you made a statement about a "group" of people on these forums that have been frequently and negatively stereotyped by an opposing and equally small group of people.

I am simply pointing out that your statement is as valid when quoted in the opposite. Just as some like to parade an opinion that there is a "very vocal minority opposed to FP+", I submit that there is an equally vocal minority that extol the virtues of FP+.

Visitors relying on these forums for accurate information would be wise to consider that the viewpoints of both represent opposite spectrums.

 

[flicx]

Of course it does. Lol

They don't for me- so as far as I'm concerned the increase in overall standby waits have not increased enough to cause any issues whatsoever. Both sites support that position.

No they don't. These positions couldn't be any further apart. When one site has wait times at the same attractions getting better and one far worse there is a definite difference of opinion. You yet again are trying to paint a different light on obvious data differences. Lets look a little further into touring plans information shall we. They state the information is pro rated because of increased park attendance. Where did we come up with information one may ask? Great question, the numbers aren't out yet. Pure guess work! They also state that there wait time information was from 10 to 5. Hmmm sure sounds like incomplete data to me. I believe that parks are open later than that, they also do not state that their wait times came from the same numbers Disney itself uses, again where are they getting their numbers from? They also had a larger number of attractions with less wait times than increased times. Interesting indeed, considering easywdw had a huge difference the exact opposite way. Heck I believe if memory serves me right easywdw had the safari at 20 minutes or more extra wait time and touring at 12 minutes or so less. Somehow though you come up with this data arriving at the same conclusion? Okay have it your way the new math system is in affect , 23 rides with more wait times and 4 with less is about the same as 12 or so with less and 3 or 4 with more!!

 

[cakebaker]

No they don't. These positions couldn't be any further apart.

I think I've explained it, as have others. I see no reason to rehash it.

 

[flicx]

I think I've explained it, as have others. I see no reason to rehash it.

The reason you don't want it rehashed is because you are giving out incorrect information. Touring plans had 15 attractions with lower times and 8 higher, and easywdw had 22 higher and 5 lower on average for high and low seasons, but somehow these numbers lead one to believe the same results. That is totally inaccurate.

 

[flicx]

Oh, floralmouse, welcome to my world.

If you are crazy, then I'm right there with you.

There are some posters who will utterly confound you. Try to shake it off, if at all possible.

I'm getting there too! I guess it is Halloween though! Maybe I missed a memo that mathematics is out the window on Halloween!

 

[Laketravis]

I'm getting there too! I guess it is Halloween though! Maybe I missed a memo that mathematics is out the window on Halloween!

Unbelievable.