AP sales…

[Brian Noble]

Seemingly due to ongoing staffing issues and other factors which impact park capacity.

After watching what's been going on for the past month or two, I think there is at least one additional factor at play: the desire to spread a particular day's guest load---whatever that load might be---across the four theme parks, rather than have drastically different attendance levels in the four parks.

May's wait times have dropped considerably, but most of the parks not named Epcot were "at capacity" for pretty much the whole month. That's not driven by Cast availability, food service, or attraction capacity, because the crowds (as measured by resort-wide average wait times) were apparently much higher in February and March.

That tells me that capacity is not set on what a park can do on at least some days, but at some lower point. The fact that MK and DS are "selling out" even at what by all appearances is a lower attendance level leads me to guess that balancing across parks is part of the plan.

And, this makes a certain amount of sense. One of the goals of FP+ was to spread out guests within a park through all the attractions, so that formerly quiet morning/evening periods at the "secondary" attractions were busier. G+ doesn't really do that in the same way---at least, not in the morning---but the Park Pass system might be revisiting the same playbook on a Park basis rather than an attraction basis.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

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[Ms Bibbidi]

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[Ms Bibbidi]

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[Ms Bibbidi]

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[Miffy]

I guess it's possible (and I have zero insider knowledge--this is just a guess) that they could put APs on sale occasionally and there'd be only a limited number available. It'd be like getting an ILL$ for RotR: the first however many people to successfully log in and complete payment would get APs and those whose apps crashed would be left out.

They have never stopped letting people renew. This gives me hope.

I realize all that "Disney is a business and they want profit" stuff, but the execs at Disney can't possibly be forgetting why people love coming so much. And it's not because they're happy to fund the Disney C-suite's bonuses.

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

After watching what's been going on for the past month or two, I think there is at least one additional factor at play: the desire to spread a particular day's guest load---whatever that load might be---across the four theme parks, rather than have drastically different attendance levels in the four parks.

May's wait times have dropped considerably, but most of the parks not named Epcot were "at capacity" for pretty much the whole month. That's not driven by Cast availability, food service, or attraction capacity, because the crowds (as measured by resort-wide average wait times) were apparently much higher in February and March.

That tells me that capacity is not set on what a park can do on at least some days, but at some lower point. The fact that MK and DS are "selling out" even at what by all appearances is a lower attendance level leads me to guess that balancing across parks is part of the plan.

And, this makes a certain amount of sense. One of the goals of FP+ was to spread out guests within a park through all the attractions, so that formerly quiet morning/evening periods at the "secondary" attractions were busier. G+ doesn't really do that in the same way---at least, not in the morning---but the Park Pass system might be revisiting the same playbook on a Park basis rather than an attraction basis.

I'm Cheapunk's worst nitemare.
50 years worth of WDW on-site stays incl May... DVC member years ago & again recently + former AP holder here...

IMO, no matter how all of this shakes out for me & mine, selling any on-site room in a hotel built to entice visitors to WDW & then denying them guaranteed access to all 4 parks EVERY DAY while raising ticket prices, is a level of cynical corporate greed only Scrooge McDuck or Cheapunk could imagine.

***I meant to refer here to ANY guest at ANY WDW hotel, not only DVC.

 

[tjkraz]

From that genesis, Walt Disney built his first park, intended to be a family park - a local park where families could have fun together. The roots of Disney parks are in being a family park for locals. That has not changed.

In fairness, Walt never conceived of a theme park complex that would mirror the Disneyland and Walt Disney World we see today. He wasn't setting policies which would accommodate 50-100 million guests per year, arriving from all corners of the globe.

To be selfish for a moment, I'm not sure there's a group more adversely impacted by this AP situation than DVC Members. We're talking about a group who has committed to visiting DL or WDW annually for up to 5 decades to come. The average owner has about 275 points, figure maybe 8-12 nights worth depending upon season and room type. Maneuvering 2 years worth of trips under a single set of APs means the DVC owner is getting maybe 16-24 visits to the parks for their passes. This is far less than the amount of access granted to locals, who could potentially visit 100...200...300 days in a year for the same or LESS than what a DVC member is paying for admission.

I'm not rooting for locals to be harmed in any modifications to the Annual Passholder program. But it would be a good opportunity to separate the locals--who are buying APs to visit literally dozens of times per year--vs DVC owners, most of whom would probably be content with +/- 3 weeks of theme park access scattered over a 365-day span.

DVC owners deserve more layers than a max 10-day pass that expires in 2 weeks vs a 340-365 day pass that costs $1000+.

 

[Pooh12863]

In fairness, Walt never conceived of a theme park complex that would mirror the Disneyland and Walt Disney World we see today. He wasn't setting policies which would accommodate 50-100 million guests per year, arriving from all corners of the globe.

To be selfish for a moment, I'm not sure there's a group more adversely impacted by this AP situation than DVC Members. We're talking about a group who has committed to visiting DL or WDW annually for up to 5 decades to come. The average owner has about 275 points, figure maybe 8-12 nights worth depending upon season and room type. Maneuvering 2 years worth of trips under a single set of APs means the DVC owner is getting maybe 16-24 visits to the parks for their passes. This is far less than the amount of access granted to locals, who could potentially visit 100...200...300 days in a year for the same or LESS than what a DVC member is paying for admission.

I'm not rooting for locals to be harmed in any modifications to the Annual Passholder program. But it would be a good opportunity to separate the locals--who are buying APs to visit literally dozens of times per year--vs DVC owners, most of whom would probably be content with +/- 3 weeks of theme park access scattered over a 365-day span.

DVC owners deserve more layers than a max 10-day pass that expires in 2 weeks vs a 340-365 day pass that costs $1000+.

To be fair DVC never promised any of us theme park access, so I find the debate of who should get AP's and who shouldn't a bit silly. Sell AP's or don't and let the chips fall where they may.

Not directed at you in particular.

 

[Matty B13]

To be fair DVC never promised any of us theme park access, so I find the debate of who should get AP's and who shouldn't a bit silly. Sell AP's or don't and let the chips fall where they may.

I would love it if a DVC Guide said this to a perspective buyer.....

 

[Pooh12863]

I would love it if a DVC Guide said this to a perspective buyer.....

Perhaps prospective buyers should read the contract they're signing, and stop putting their faith in salespersons.

 

[tjkraz]

To be fair DVC never promised any of us theme park access, so I find the debate of who should get AP's and who shouldn't a bit silly. Sell AP's or don't and let the chips fall where they may.

Not directed at you in particular.

Is the debate silly or is it necessary? In terms of attendance patterns, out-of-town DVC owners are far different than locals. A DVC member using an AP for 3 specific trips in a year--staying on-site--should not be weighted the same as a local who wishes to visit every Friday, Saturday and Sunday. The audiences are different enough that Disney could use this opportunity to create different admission media which better caters to the needs of each group.

Where is the harm in creating some middle ground between a 10 day (expiring) MYW pass and a 345 day Sorcerer Pass?

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

In fairness, Walt never conceived of a theme park complex that would mirror the Disneyland and Walt Disney World we see today. He wasn't setting policies which would accommodate 50-100 million guests per year, arriving from all corners of the globe.

To be selfish for a moment, I'm not sure there's a group more adversely impacted by this AP situation than DVC Members. We're talking about a group who has committed to visiting DL or WDW annually for up to 5 decades to come. The average owner has about 275 points, figure maybe 8-12 nights worth depending upon season and room type. Maneuvering 2 years worth of trips under a single set of APs means the DVC owner is getting maybe 16-24 visits to the parks for their passes. This is far less than the amount of access granted to locals, who could potentially visit 100...200...300 days in a year for the same or LESS than what a DVC member is paying for admission.

I'm not rooting for locals to be harmed in any modifications to the Annual Passholder program. But it would be a good opportunity to separate the locals--who are buying APs to visit literally dozens of times per year--vs DVC owners, most of whom would probably be content with +/- 3 weeks of theme park access scattered over a 365-day span.

DVC owners deserve more layers than a max 10-day pass that expires in 2 weeks vs a 340-365 day pass that costs $1000+.

You make a great point.
As a long-distance DVC owner who spent thousands on the APs we needed over the yrs, I appreciated that opportunity.

When we moved to Central Fla for awhile, our MUCH cheaper APs with FL discounts bought us so much more WDW access...
And on top of that, there were always FL residents discounts popping up (BOGO or Buy 2 days/Get 3...) for those w/o APs.

Somehow, I think we're all more concerned about fairness for everyone than those at TWDC, as long as Cheapunk is at the helm.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

DVC owners deserve more layers than a max 10-day pass that expires in 2 weeks vs a 340-365 day pass that costs $1000+.

That's a good point. From a different perspective, I don't really need an AP. I just need a ticket that includes 14-21 days and expires in a year. Although having said that, I like some of the AP perks. Although as DVC, I do not need the AP discount, I like having it. I also like getting to purchase special AP merch.

 

[Brian Noble]

Where is the harm in creating some middle ground between a 10 day (expiring) MYW pass and a 345 day Sorcerer Pass?

The Sorcerer pass costs (past-tense cost if you prefer) less than two 4-day park hoppers. I'm not sure there needs to be something between them, unless you think the former is under-priced.

 

[Pooh12863]

Is the debate silly or is it necessary? In terms of attendance patterns, out-of-town DVC owners are far different than locals. A DVC member using an AP for 3 specific trips in a year--staying on-site--should not be weighted the same as a local who wishes to visit every Friday, Saturday and Sunday. The audiences are different enough that Disney could use this opportunity to create different admission media which better caters to the needs of each group.

Where is the harm in creating some middle ground between a 10 day (expiring) MYW pass and a 345 day Sorcerer Pass?

I don't believe attendance patterns have anything to do with local AP's, they've always been there, the parks were getting crowded before all these changes, they'll probably get less crowded as the economy worsens.

 

[Prince John Robin Hood]

That's a good point. From a different perspective, I don't really need an AP. I just need a ticket that includes 14-21 days and expires in a year. Although having said that, I like some of the AP perks. Although as DVC, I do not need the AP discount, I like having it. I also like getting to purchase special AP merch.

They have the 14 day UK tickets so it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that they could offer a longer ticket good for 365 days to DVC that requires an onsite stay. I'd be okay with that instead of AP.

 

[ParkHoppers]

Maybe I missed it but who ever said locals didn’t deserve to get an AP. More like is Disney callous enough to cut them out.

 

[BillPA]

Just to stir the pot, what does a 14 day pass cost? Is it a hopper?

 

[Madame]

Just to stir the pot, what does a 14 day pass cost? Is it a hopper?

Yes and until recently included g+…. They run adult for kid price sales too… not too sure of recent pricing.