Anyone watch "The Cove"

[charming23]

again - you don't are getting it all wrong - it doesn't matter WHO captured these whales - they shouldn't have been captured in the first place.

While I agree they should not have been caputured in the first place, we have to deal with the situation now as it is. Releasing all the whales, where most that are in parks now have been born there, would not work.

no you put them in sea pens - it will take time and perhaps too much money so the marine parks probably won't do that as they also wouldn't make any money on the come back.

however if they ever did decide to release them it would take months of hard work - but the trainers at the marine parks spent months training the whales/dolphins to do tricks so they can work on getting them ready for the wild.

how great would that be?

tilly will never be released - they want him for breeding purposes but they just use the 'he been in capitivity too long' line.

So besides Kieko, how many whales/dolphins have successfully been put back using this method? Just because it semi (I use semi because Kieko ws never really free as he always was looking for human interaction from what I have read) worked with one whale what makes people think it will work with all whales?

 

[charming23]

Can I ask why did you comment 2 different times on my one comment

And i never said I had no feeling about that picture I said Im not going to hold a grudge about a picture from the 1970s times were very different back then plus If i was to hold a grudge about the past Id be a very sad person And just because I don't agree with you does not mean I live in a fluffy world.

^^ I agree with what you are saying. What happened in the 1970's is not what is happening now and we can not go back and change the events that happened only deal with what we have now.

I agree that you do not live in a fluffy world.

 

[chiamarie]

OK. This is going way too far. I understand DCLMan is having opposite opinions from the majority of the posters in this thread (i.e. supporting dolphin and whale capture and captivity). For julieannbabe, you should not use name calling, because then you just lose the game. Ric O Barry and his team are using non violent and peaceful tactics to end the dolphin slaughter. If DCLMan is against a good cause, it isn't wise to antagonize him because that would only keep him away from this issue, and now he says he has left this thread, which actually happened.

As for ChicagoFitnessClub who says "They [the whales and dolphins] will figure it out, they're smart creatures." Truth is, the whales and dolphins would not figure it out the minute they go in the ocean. They have to be transferred from the dolphinarium to a sea pen to be rehabilitated and be checked and taught how to live in the wild again.

Just because they were born in captivity, doesn't mean it's ok to have them live in a chlorinated artificial concrete pool and be forced to do tricks for dead fish.

Dolphins do not belong in captivity. There is no such thing as good captivity. All dolphins lived in the wild since the beginning of time. With the world's realization of this wrongdoing of capturing dolphins and making them do tricks for food and the fact that Dolphins are WILD ANIMALS, not pets, there can't be a bright future ahead for the dolphins spending their life in a small pool. Unless we band together to end it.

It's not about opinion, or culture. It's about fact. And common sense.

Please refer to the Bold item-

Ugh- How many times do I have to say this. Ric O'Barry's "Solution" to the dolphin slaughters is to stop visiting places like SeaWorld and Epcot (yes, epcot has 4 bottlenose dolphisn that live at The Seas with Nemo and Friends, so they are just as guilty as SeaWorld, so i hope all you who are so anit-seaworld also do not visit Epcot).

I stil have yet to see ANYONE tell me how boycotting these places are going to solve the japanse drive fisheries. The only places that "support" (as in, they buy dolphins from these drive fisheries) are located in Asia. Seaworld's dolphins never came from these drive fisheries, seaworld does not support these drive fisheries and they are against them (please see my ealrier posts with attached videos from seaworld, saying they are against them, yes perhaps as a large company they should be doing more to help, you are correct).

For the umpteeth time- this is supposed to be a discussion for the movie "The Cove". Not for people to argue their opinions about whether or not dolphins/whales should be kept in zoo's and aquairums.

 

[chiamarie]

The OP asked if any of us had watched "The Cove." And the discussion evolved. Deal with it.

I give. True story.

It just really irks me when people fall for Ric O'Barry's scheme of "don't go to seaworld, this is where they got their dolphins. If we stop going to seaworld, then this will stop in japan." It just isn't logical thinking to me at all. So thats the only point I really have to make on here.
As for discussing captivity, I think it's pointless, because neither side will give. So I just don't go there.

I just hope that everyone posting that captivity is bad is truly living up to that. If they are, I say kudos to you. But I hope that means all captivity. So, despite being a big disney fan, that you are also boycotting disney. Because they are just as gulity as seaworld when it comes to captivity. There are four bottle nose dolphins that live at Epcot; as well as numerous animals that live at Animal Kingdom. So, if you visit either of thoes places, you are being hypocrites by saying captivity is bad, don't go to seaworld, but it's okay to give my money to disney who also has captive dolphins.

That's just my two cents.

 

[charming23]

While I don't boycott Epcot, I certainly boycott that exhibit. I haven't been to that exhibit since I was a child. Additionally, if people don't go to that exhibit Disney will get rid of it. So it's not like you have to boycott the entire Epcot park to get your point across.

I don't believe in anything Seaworld does so I don't go to that park at all. I still stand by my earlier post that dolphin and whale captivity is incredibly cruel and unusual punishment for them and they don't deserve it. I don't understand how anyone could be on the opposite side of that argument because honestly, there really isn't even an argument to be had.

Do you boycott Aimal Kingdom? Because they have a lot of animals in captivity. And even if you boycott the exhibit only in Epcot part of the money from your ticket goes to caring for the dolphins so in some way you are supporting them.

So you do not believe in anything Sea World does? Not even when they used their resources to save hundred of sea turtles this past winter in Florida when it became to cold for them? Not even when they rescue hundreds of manatees and rehabilitate them so they can go back home again? Not even when they rehabilitate dolphins and whales to keep the species healthy and growing? Sea World does amazing things as a company other than just "exploit animals" for entertainment purposes. Yes they are a business but one that actually helps out the animals that they educate people on.

Also there are two sides to the argument but you only see the one that you think is right. I can see where you are coming from though and see your argument but I do not agree. I grew up going to the Sea World they once had here in Ohio and learned more from seeing the animals up close and personal than I ever would have in book. I have a deep appreciation for both whales and dolphins that I would not have had living in the midwest without Sea World.

 

[julieannbabe]

interview with a neuroscientist on the ethics of keeping dolphins in captivity:

http://animal.discovery.com/tv/blood-dolphins/dolphins/opposition-dolphins-captivity.html

 

[jrmasm]

They may use my money to care for the dolphins but like I said earlier, if nobody visits that exhibit, they would get rid of it. That simple so yes I am making a statement.

No I don't boycott AK or zoos, which I already explained in some earlier pages of this thread. Let's keep this on dolphins and whales since this is predominantly what the thread is about.

So you think your being able to learn about the animals up close and personal is more important than them being able to live free and unharmed in the ocean waters? Interesting.

No let's not. I asked pages for an explanation about why captivity is fine for some animals and not others and I never saw a response. I believe if we're going to the talk about the evils of captivity that this a very relevent question.

 

[julieannbabe]

Can I ask why did you comment 2 different times on my one comment

And i never said I had no feeling about that picture I said Im not going to hold a grudge about a picture from the 1970s times were very different back then plus If i was to hold a grudge about the past Id be a very sad person And just because I don't agree with you does not mean I live in a fluffy world.

what is your opinion on the self mutilation that whales/dolphins do whilst in capitivity?

 

[DCLMan]

I give. True story.

It just really irks me when people fall for Ric O'Barry's scheme of "don't go to seaworld, this is where they got their dolphins. If we stop going to seaworld, then this will stop in japan." It just isn't logical thinking to me at all. So thats the only point I really have to make on here.
As for discussing captivity, I think it's pointless, because neither side will give. So I just don't go there.

I just hope that everyone posting that captivity is bad is truly living up to that. If they are, I say kudos to you. But I hope that means all captivity. So, despite being a big disney fan, that you are also boycotting disney. Because they are just as gulity as seaworld when it comes to captivity. There are four bottle nose dolphins that live at Epcot; as well as numerous animals that live at Animal Kingdom. So, if you visit either of thoes places, you are being hypocrites by saying captivity is bad, don't go to seaworld, but it's okay to give my money to disney who also has captive dolphins.

That's just my two cents.

Well said.

No let's not. I asked pages for an explanation about why captivity is fine for some animals and not others and I never saw a response. I believe if we're going to the talk about the evils of captivity that this a very relevent question.

ChicagoFitnessClub dodged that issue. He said that dolphins need to roam and implied that it was OK to keep other animals in zoos.

 

[irisheyes123]

what is your opinion on the self mutilation that whales/dolphins do whilst in capitivity?

Why should I answer your questions when you don't answer mine

 

[julieannbabe]

Why should I answer your questions when you don't answer mine

LMAO.

just as i thought. not a clue.

what is you opinion on: 'drilling an orca’s teeth with an electric Dremmel drill down to the pulp, with no pain management (orcas cannot be given anesthesia) until the bleeding stops (that is now the trainers know they went deep enough), in order to make them “manageable” in captivity, then they should not be able to be kept captive.'

another good feature on how the orcas fight with each other in captivity - be warned a picture of kandu bleeding to death after breaking her jaw trying to injure another orca.

http://timzimmermann.com/2010/09/14/do-orcas-at-marine-parks-injure-one-another/

 

[irisheyes123]

LMAO.

just as i thought. not a clue.

what is you opinion on: 'drilling an orca’s teeth with an electric Dremmel drill down to the pulp, with no pain management (orcas cannot be given anesthesia) until the bleeding stops (that is now the trainers know they went deep enough), in order to make them “manageable” in captivity, then they should not be able to be kept captive.'

another good feature on how the orcas fight with each other in captivity - be warned a picture of kandu bleeding to death after breaking her jaw trying to injure another orca.


I just did not see why Im answering questions when you will not answer mine.

(what is your opinion on the self mutilation that whales/dolphins do whilst in capitivity?)

Im no expert on this nor do I pretend to be but do I believe that they intentionally self mutilate or commit suicide no I Don't reports also suggest that the commit suicide in the wild too so its not only in captivity that they are saying this.

On the drilling of teeth I don't know much about this but maybe that is something I can learn on my upcoming trip and look into more


At the end of the day we will never agree on this and I don't expect you too you have your beliefs and I have mine Im happy to support seaworld as I believe the do a lot of good and Im going to leave it at that because we will just keep going around in circles with this.

 

[jrmasm]

Put it like this: I'm against captivity for all animals but I'm outraged by dolphin/whale captivity. I think that's cruel and unusual punishment for animals that need to be free and able to roam the oceans.

So I take it you're in favor of dolphin/whale captivity. You're an amazing person, good job.

Sarcasm much? Or is that a personal attack? At a minimum, your comment was a MASSIVE leap.

You have no idea what my opinion is. I never expressed it. I simply asked a question. It's interesting that my question made you so defensive.

So back to the original question, why are you only against captivity for other animals instead of outraged?

 

[KBF]

I dont want to pick a fight, I was just wondering, I saw your post about your trip to Discovery Cove. It seemed as if you really enjoyed it. Did your trip change your opinion slightly? Would you consider going back? Thanks.

 

[DisneyRockstar]

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated”. Mahatma Gandhi

 

[julieannbabe]

what is you opinion on: 'drilling an orca’s teeth with an electric Dremmel drill down to the pulp, with no pain management (orcas cannot be given anesthesia) until the bleeding stops (that is now the trainers know they went deep enough), in order to make them “manageable” in captivity, then they should not be able to be kept captive.'

another good feature on how the orcas fight with each other in captivity -

(what is your opinion on the self mutilation that whales/dolphins do whilst in capitivity?)

Im no expert on this nor do I pretend to be but do I believe that they intentionally self mutilate or commit suicide no I Don't reports also suggest that the commit suicide in the wild too so its not only in captivity that they are saying this.

On the drilling of teeth I don't know much about this but maybe that is something I can learn on my upcoming trip and look into more


.

at least i have taught you something you didn't know before.

pls ask SW when you next go. be interested to know their answer.

 

[DisneyRockstar]

 

[marleygirl]

the show literally sickened me as i was totally clueless.

if you re-watch the show, you will see that they do supply dolphins to Seaworld as that is discussed and the sign at the entrance to Discovery cove is shown.


To I Love My Girls and JuliannBabe..I am right there with you..a reformed Seaworld and Dolphin Encounter fan...Here is my story-

(Please take the time to read it as I truly believe that it shows that something is not right)

Preface-
FYI..The Blackstone Group owns $eaworld and Di$covery Cove as well as lots of other companies.They have unlimited funds .They do not operate Seaworld out of the goodness of their heart or to educate.It is about money..bottom line.When they do good things it is a smoke screen.It is so that people will defend them and not look into what bad they may be doing.This was why I never personally looked deeper into it.

Discovery Cove is actually one of the most expensive dolphin encounters I have ever heard of(Even more than the Atlantis who overcharges for everything-and not that they are any better -just a side note).

With regard to The Cove in Taiji and why I believe after much research that Seaworld is involved is listed below.Trust me ..it hurts to believe it because it means I have been a part of the problem.I paid good money and encouraged these things which all lead back to Taiji:

The permit was approved 9/10/10.
http://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2010/09/10/2010-22518/marine-mammals-file-no-15014

Summary

Notice is hereby given that Sea World, LLC, 9205 South Park Center Loop, Suite 400, Orlando, FL 32819 [Brad Andrews, Responsible Party] has been issued a permit to import one pilot whale (Globicephala macrorhynchus) for public display.


Around 9/20 15 pilot whales were driven into the Cove in Taiji.People personally witnessed and reported it. Pilot whale drives are pretty rare for The Cove,so people kept saying "Why Pilot whales?" Technically this drive can be considered a beaching.By beaching these creatures then if anyone takes a pilot whale or dolphin from there,then it is technically a "rescue".A day or so later some trainers came to look at these pilot whales but due to the fact they they were scratched up and beaten up from this beaching they were not sold and were slaughtered that day.
Keep in mind the price for a dolphin is almost $200,000.So I guess even Seaworld or "whoever" you want to believe brought in the trainers, has it's standards.

I didn't think it was a coincidence so I left a message in Seaworld's comment box.Here is my reply from Fred Jacobs:

----- Original Message -----
From "Jacobs, Fred" <fred.jacobs@SeaWorld.com>
Date Fri, 01 Oct 2010 16:41:27 -0400
To ****************
Subject FW: SeaWorld.Org Feedback

Ms. K***,

They are completely unrelated. The pilot whale we are seeking to import was not
captured in Taiji and had nothing whatever to do with a drive hunt. This whale
beached as a newborn after becoming separated from its mother. He was in grave
condition and the aquarium at Kamogawa was able to rescue him, treat his
injuries, and raise him to adulthood. It is a remarkable and heroic story for
which they deserve nothing but praise. Because he now full grown and sexually
mature and has no companion animal in Kamogawa, we offered to take him. They
agreed.
http://cetabase.blogspot.com/2010/09/sep-25th-2010-updated-information-on.html

Fred Jacobs
SeaWorld
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred Jacobs is VP of communications....
The above blog he cites as proof is the Captive Cetacean News.I looked into it and there is no information as to who runs this blog.
Here is a copy of the page-The most disturbing however is the source to this blogs information(scroll down)

Saturday, September 25, 2010
Sep 25th, 2010 - Updated Information on Sea World California's Request to Import a Pilot Whale
In our first post regarding Sea World's importation of the Kamagawa Pilot Whale named "Argo" we only posted the permit. Sadly, some people have taken that permit out of context, assuming that Argo was the product of the drive fisheries in Taiji, Japan which is NOT true.

Here's some background information on Argo.

"Argo the pilot whale has no association with the drive fisheries. He was a lone stranding, as a neonate, six years ago on a beach northeast of Kamogawa and was nearly dead when rescued. Animal care specialists nursed him to health at Kamogawa SeaWorld saving his life. Because Argo was hand raised by humans, he is not releasable. Kamogawa SeaWorld does not have any other pilot whales at its park while we have three pilot whales here. We were asked if could provide long-term care for Argo so that he could live with other whales of his own species. We of course said yes. And in case you are not aware, we are providing long-term care to a young pilot whale named Sully rescued after he stranded near death on the island of Curacao a year ago. Argo, like Sully, was given a second chance at life by passionate and dedicated animal care specialists working in marine-life parks like ours."
- SeaWorld San Diego

Argo originally stranded on January 10th, 2004 on the Moriya seashore of Katsuura.

It's important to note that no cetaceans captured in Japan have been known to be imported to the US since 1993 when the NMFS denied a permit for Marine World Africa USA & Indianapolis Zoo to collect four false killer whales.

SOURCES:
http://www.icrwhale.org/stranding0312.htm ********Does this look familiar?
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/seaworldsandiego?ref=ts
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does anyone watch Whale Wars? icrwhale.org is the website on the side of the Japanese Slaughter boats labeled "RESEARCH".

Now this link is in Japanese ,so maybe he thought I wouldn't "research " this any further.Little did he know that when I first started watching Whale Wars in March of this year,I went on the above website to see both sides of the debate .I wanted to get the other perspective and do my own "Research".(I sided with the whales).Again ,I always try to look to both sides and form my own conclusion based on fact.

In any case the fact that Fred Jacobs is using this as his source of fact from a website that is pro whaling and slaughter,he has to be kidding me !!!!....

from the icrwhale.org website: " It is a nonprofit research organization whose legal status is authorized by the Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, Government of Japan, as a foundational judicial person."

Also the other source is Seaworld San Diego's FB page..
Yes,two unbiased sources..(sarcasm)

Like I said I am reformed.I have also watched the Cove end of August and did my own "research" .This is what reformed me !

Then this happened a few weeks later.It is all too coincidental to me.And when the head of communications takes the time to email me and his only defense is a blog run by an unknown source that sites the
icrwhale.org ??? it makes you wonder....check it out for yourself ,in English-
http://www.icrwhale.org/abouticr.htm ....nothing like getting the information from the horses mouth.I think he put his foot in it now.It didn't change my mind it only made me more sure that the whole thing,and SW stink!

Oh and btw, maybe he took the time to respond because I am in the travel industry (for 15 years)and told him I will never ,ever book Seaworld or Discovery Cove again..and that I will tell all of my clients why I won't! Yes,that was probably why he made the time to respond to a peon like me.Because I spoke in his language"The Almighty Buck" I have no hidden agenda.Actually ,I am ready to push away potential clients and try to educate them on the facts-regardless if I lose business..I just realized that I have been wrong and listened to the lies for TOO long .I am trying to right my wrong!!

When I took the time to investigate all roads lead back to Taiji,or the Solomon Islands or a drive fishery.Dolphins do not fall out of the sky as a gift from the Dolphin Fairy.I even called Di$covery Cove and can follow this up with a copy of the conversation.(Yes ,I wrote it down because I felt it was important to note.)They are not all rescues as per Discovery Cove ..only "some were rescues."

I mean at the dolphin encounter in the Bahamas in 1995,they "taught" us that the "dolphins were happy-look at that smile"(Lie)..but then again they told us we were swimming with Flipper-also a lie(Flipper was one of 5 dolphins and the last one ,Cathy died at Miami Seaquarium in the 70s).Anything for the money..

The nightmare starts in Taiji (or places like it) and ends in captivity.

If anyone cares,I will gladly post my response to Fred Jacobs and or all 3 emails....

"We did what we did with what we knew at the time. When we knew better, we did better."-Maya Angelou

 

[julieannbabe]

double checking just for everyone out there - to make this loud and clear - are you saying that seaworld put in the permit ten days before - so the japanese fishermen would capture the pilot whales in the near future - this case 10 days later - then SW would import it to make it seem like SW had rescued it?

 

[WDSearcher]

OK... I've read the entire thread. I've watched "The Cove." I was disturbed by it, as are many others. It appears as though drive fishing is to dolphins what puppy mills are to dogs -- both are appalling.

Question, though, for ChicagoFitnessClub, DisneyRockstar and julieannbabe -- and I ask you three specifically, because you are so outspoken and vehement about your positions. You talk a great game and yell at a lot of people, but seldom note anything positive (other than not buying tickets to SeaWorld) that one can do to improve the situation.

The question ... what do you do to help stop this situation that you so vehemently rail against? I ask because there are people I know who have seen The Cove who are now spurred to action, but they have no idea where best to focus their efforts. Do you donate money? Do you attend rallies? Do you write to government agencies? Do you organize protests?

I'm not looking for a general, "Look on the internet -- there's plenty of stuff" or "stop going to SeaWorld". I'm looking for those things that those of you who are knowledgeable and passionate about the cause are actually doing -- those things with which you have experience -- so that I can pass along those examples to others of reputable organizations or activities that will help. No one wants to focus their efforts on a cause only to find out that their money is being misused or their time is supporting a one-sided vendetta. So I ask those of you who seem to have experience. It's one thing to argue on a message board, but what have you actually found out there in the real world to help?

Thanks for any insight.