Anyone watch "The Cove"

[DCLMan]

yes you right. there should be an anti captivity thread.

the cove and captivity debate are blurring into one.

To be fair, you are blurring the thread.

Japan will continue to kill dolphins regardless. They eat the meat and regard them as pests.

SeaWorld does not use wild caught dolphins. Therefore SeaWorld cannot be blamed for what the Japanese do.

You are against captive dolphins and whales, I am not.

 

[TheLists09]

Watched the documentary a few weeks ago. It was pretty hard to get through. Normally I am against using brutal imagery to promote your case, but do think it was necessary for this film. I cannot imagine how Ric O Barry gets through the day if he honestly blames himself for the explosion of water parks because of the Flipper show. What a heavy weight to bear.

 

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

You are against captive dolphins and whales, I am not.

So you think it's fair to keep dolphins and whales in a tiny little glass container? Wow people never cease to amaze me.

 

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

But Seaworld is just as against drive fisheries as the rest of us are.

Oh really? What are they doing to stop it?

 

[chiamarie]

Oh really? What are they doing to stop it?

You're right, they should do more to stop it.

But perhaps you should do your research and watch the video I posted way back when. But if you go to the link, it's Seaworld's public view point on how they feel about drive fisheries.

http://www.seaworldparksblog.com/updated-seaworld-discusses-drive-fisheries

 

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

You're right, they should do more to stop it.

But perhaps you should do your research and watch the video I posted way back when. But if you go to the link, it's Seaworld's public view point on how they feel about drive fisheries.

http://www.seaworldparksblog.com/updated-seaworld-discusses-drive-fisheries

Anyone can express their view. Actions speak louder than words, and I don't see them out with Rick Obary (I think that's his name) protesting the drive fisheries.

 

[julieannbabe]

To be fair, you are blurring the thread.

Japan will continue to kill dolphins regardless. They eat the meat and regard them as pests.

SeaWorld does not use wild caught dolphins. Therefore SeaWorld cannot be blamed for what the Japanese do.

You are against captive dolphins and whales, I am not.

Seaworld does use caught whales - tilly - seaworld bought her from another marine park who caputured her. - do a search on tilly to find out her exact history.

Corky at san diego seaworld was captured about 38 years ago in vancouver - she was housed in marineland, LA then transferred to Seaworld San Diego.

so please get your facts straight saying that seaworld do not use wild caught animals.

where did the first dolphins at seaworld come from then? did they pull them out of thin air?

why do people not read the whole read - i have never blamed seaworld for what 26 japanese fishermen do. i am anti-captivity. the whales/dolphins at seaworld come from the wild - it doesn't have to be from japan does it? they were still plucked from their family and natural habitat weren't they?

people on here are so ignorant it is unbelievable.

these dolphins/whales don't stand a chance at this rate.

 

[julieannbabe]

So you think it's fair to keep dolphins and whales in a tiny little glass container? Wow people never cease to amaze me.

you are wasting your breath on here.

the ignorance of people is why these creatures are in those concretes tanks being stood on, ridden on, made to go through hoops, having to do pictures with people - just so they can say that they have swam with a dolphin to get fed.

i pray that in the near future people get educated.

 

[Kimberly]

I actually had no clue where they got these dolphins from... I just assumed that they were bred and especially trained in captivity. Even as an avid diver and I consider myself fairly knowledgeable on marine life, I still had no clue. It really is sickening what they do to these dolphins to capture, and slaughter them, especially being hidden in a cove which is invisible to all but the most prying of eyes. The meat they sell is packaged and sold with high levels of mercury as well.

 

[julieannbabe]

I actually had no clue where they got these dolphins from... I just assumed that they were bred and especially trained in captivity. Even as an avid diver and I consider myself fairly knowledgeable on marine life, I still had no clue. It really is sickening what they do to these dolphins to capture, and slaughter them, especially being hidden in a cove which is invisible to all but the most prying of eyes. The meat they sell is packaged and sold with high levels of mercury as well.

thats the problem people that visit marine parks don't think.

i didn't think about it when i first visited seaworld when i was 14.

even now they are bred in captivity - where did the very first dolphins/whales come from? answer = the wild.

 

[DCLMan]

So I'm ignorant. Julieannbabe, your opinion of me means so little to me, I really don't care.

If you are that concerned about whale and dolphin welfare I suggest you step away from the safety of your computer and go and pro-actively do something to help them. Then you can criticise me.

I'm out of here, this is going nowhere.

I'm out of here,

 

[julieannbabe]

So I'm ignorant. Julieannbabe, your opinion of me means so little to me, I really don't care.

If you are that concerned about whale and dolphin welfare I suggest you step away from the safety of your computer and go and pro-actively do something to help them. Then you can criticise me.

I'm out of here, this is going nowhere.

I'm out of here,

if course you are ignorant saying and i quote 'SeaWorld does not use wild caught dolphins' - what kind of nonsense is that? where did they get them from in the first place then? so tilly and corky were never ripped apart from their families caught in the wild by other marine parks then seaworld bought them? LMAO!

its not the most intelligent thing to say is it?

the biggest pro-active thing anyone can do for the whales/dolphins is not buy a ticket to these marine parks.

 

[julieannbabe]

You are against captive dolphins and whales, I am not.

here you go mr ignorant - tell that to lolita captured in 1970 who lives or should i say 'exists' in miami aquarium:

'On August 8th, 1970, Lolita and her family were swimming peacefully off the coast of Washington State, in route to a ritual gathering of the orca nations. Every year the orca pods of the northwest make the long pilgrimage to Possession Sound for the celebration.

But for Lolita the day took a tragic turn. She and 10 other family members would never make it to this or any other family reunion again.

As the pod of more than 100 whales moved through the inlet, legendary orca trainer Ted Griffin and his capture team quickly gave chase.

Speedboats roared out to greet the pod. An assault of explosives quickly ensued. Deafening bombs exploded around the family as boats and small aircraft attempted to herd the disoriented whales into Puget Sound's Penn Cove inlet.

Attempting to protect their young, mature whales instinctively split into two groups and sent decoys to distract hunters from the infants and adolescents. The decoys tried to lead the hunters on a wild chase away from the pod, but pursuers were relentless, hurling nets into the water, and trapping the panicked family in Penn Cove inlet
Orca capture The air was thick with the sound of screaming whales as they thrashed in the tangled nets. Piercing shrills were heard for miles according to local residents Lila Snover and Barbara Stevens.

"The sounds they made were we what we really noticed. What you really felt were the cries of both the small ones and the adult ones. I remember one day I stopped close to them with my children and they kept saying, 'Why are they crying? They're crying.' It just broke your heart, and you kept wanting them to let them go, quit harassing them." ~Lila Snover

"There was a group of people that even contemplated going out in small boats in the dark and try and cut the nets and set the orcas free but they were being guarded all day and all night by people on the boats with rifles. They would pretty much shoot anybody who showed up and tried to free them." ~Barbara Stevens

"It was terrible. It was just terrible. It was like a prison camp; it was awful. And I think everybody that remembers it will tell you that. It was just one of the most horrible things I've witnessed in my life. I became dedicated to orcas in general and Lolita in particular since that day." ~Lila Snover

Adolescents ranging in age 2 to 7 years (the perfect age for capture and training) were quickly separated from their mothers and prepared for extraction. While desperately trying to reach her child through the twisted nets, one mother drowned: one last glimpse of her infant being dragged away and she closed her blowhole and sank lifelessly into the murky water. Her body was later discovered by reporters.

John Crowe was just 18 when he was hired to aid in the capture, and he remembers it very well.

"Corals were set up with net going down on all sides. Then you have to figure out a way to separate the animals because you only want the little ones. Then when you see that there are some little ones on one side, more on one side than the other, then you take off with another boat and run a net and separate those. Also you leave a circular net out to keep some whales in it because as long as there is one whale in captivity the rest of them won't leave. Isn't that interesting?" ~John Crowe '

for more on this go to: http://www.miamiseaprison.com/lolita.htm

 

[jrmasm]

here you go mr ignorant - tell that to lolita captured in 1970 who lives or should i say 'exists' in miami aquarium:

'On August 8th, 1970, Lolita and her family were swimming peacefully off the coast of Washington State, in route to a ritual gathering of the orca nations. Every year the orca pods of the northwest make the long pilgrimage to Possession Sound for the celebration.

But for Lolita the day took a tragic turn. She and 10 other family members would never make it to this or any other family reunion again.

As the pod of more than 100 whales moved through the inlet, legendary orca trainer Ted Griffin and his capture team quickly gave chase.

Speedboats roared out to greet the pod. An assault of explosives quickly ensued. Deafening bombs exploded around the family as boats and small aircraft attempted to herd the disoriented whales into Puget Sound's Penn Cove inlet.

Attempting to protect their young, mature whales instinctively split into two groups and sent decoys to distract hunters from the infants and adolescents. The decoys tried to lead the hunters on a wild chase away from the pod, but pursuers were relentless, hurling nets into the water, and trapping the panicked family in Penn Cove inlet
Orca capture The air was thick with the sound of screaming whales as they thrashed in the tangled nets. Piercing shrills were heard for miles according to local residents Lila Snover and Barbara Stevens.

"The sounds they made were we what we really noticed. What you really felt were the cries of both the small ones and the adult ones. I remember one day I stopped close to them with my children and they kept saying, 'Why are they crying? They're crying.' It just broke your heart, and you kept wanting them to let them go, quit harassing them." ~Lila Snover

"There was a group of people that even contemplated going out in small boats in the dark and try and cut the nets and set the orcas free but they were being guarded all day and all night by people on the boats with rifles. They would pretty much shoot anybody who showed up and tried to free them." ~Barbara Stevens

"It was terrible. It was just terrible. It was like a prison camp; it was awful. And I think everybody that remembers it will tell you that. It was just one of the most horrible things I've witnessed in my life. I became dedicated to orcas in general and Lolita in particular since that day." ~Lila Snover

Adolescents ranging in age 2 to 7 years (the perfect age for capture and training) were quickly separated from their mothers and prepared for extraction. While desperately trying to reach her child through the twisted nets, one mother drowned: one last glimpse of her infant being dragged away and she closed her blowhole and sank lifelessly into the murky water. Her body was later discovered by reporters.

John Crowe was just 18 when he was hired to aid in the capture, and he remembers it very well.

"Corals were set up with net going down on all sides. Then you have to figure out a way to separate the animals because you only want the little ones. Then when you see that there are some little ones on one side, more on one side than the other, then you take off with another boat and run a net and separate those. Also you leave a circular net out to keep some whales in it because as long as there is one whale in captivity the rest of them won't leave. Isn't that interesting?" ~John Crowe '

for more on this go to: http://www.miamiseaprison.com/lolita.htm

I would assume based on your posts that you would like to bring people over to your side of this cause.

The bold above will not help you at all.

 

[julieannbabe]

The bold above will not help you at all.

i find it infuriating for someone to say they all for capitivity and that the whales and dolphins at marine parks do not come from the wild. you don't think that is ignorant? come on now.

some people are deluded - i could post pictures of the captures all day long and people still think it okay to have these creatures in captivity - despite that explosives are used to frighten whales/dolphins into capture.

but we got them doing tricks for us and it makes our kids happy - so we don't think about or care how these creatures got to the park in the first place.
we push it to the back on our mind.

even the word CAPTIVITY - the clues are there people! break it down - what does captive mean?

 

[julieannbabe]

a very good report in PDF formate in life in captivity versus the wild:

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sour...=g1g-m1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=8cfe031445db23c2

it takes you to google - about 5 topics down ' dying to entertain you'

great quotes from page 54:

'Lasting impressions of a whale show:

A further consideration is just how much information the visitor retains. When school parties visit Sea World and watch a modified version of the Shamu show, what thoughts
go through their minds? Are they able to see beyond the showbiz routines and equate the animal performing for their amusement with orcas in the wild? Or do they leave with the overwhelming impression that humans have a right to dominate other species: that 'anything goes' as long as it entertains the public? And how much do they recall after leaving the park?'

Recent studies have come up with some interesting results. It appears that the marine parks themselves are uncomfortably aware that their efforts at education have not made a lasting impression on visitors.

'An aquarium show cannot be transformed into a sound educational experience simply by interspersing natural history trivia among the back flips, synchronised leaps and other 'entertaining' feats commonly performed by the animals.'

 

[irisheyes123]

here you go mr ignorant -
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I don't think name calling is the right way to get your point across

 

[jrmasm]

i find it infuriating for someone to say they all for capitivity and that the whales and dolphins at marine parks do not come from the wild. you don't think that is ignorant? come on now.

some people are deluded - i could post pictures of the captures all day long and people still think it okay to have these creatures in captivity - despite that explosives are used to frighten whales/dolphins into capture.

but we got them doing tricks for us and it makes our kids happy - so we don't think about or care how these creatures got to the park in the first place.
we push it to the back on our mind.

even the word CAPTIVITY - the clues are there people! break it down - what does captive mean?

Name calling is not the way to get people to listen to you and take you seriously. You message is lost in the immaturity.

 

[julieannbabe]

from the introduction of this report:

Visitors are invited to enter a fantasy land, where orcas weighing several tonnes circle, leap and tail-slap seemingly out of sheer high spirits. Highly-choreographed show routines, performed to a background of tired old rock songs, are presented as "natural behaviour". Entranced, many of the spectators fail to register the bare concrete walls of the tank. At show's end, as they file out, few people notice the endless circling of the captives in the holding pools or the drooping dorsal fins of the males.

Clever marketing and showmanship have, however, failed to completely conceal the reality behind the razzmatazz. Visitors may experience feelings of disappointment, distaste and disillusionment after watching the orcas perform, finding it hard to articulate these feelings precisely, but aware that the docile, playful orca portrayed is far removed from the real animal. Similar emotions have been reported after seeing captive tigers or elephants - an awareness that the animal's dignity is demeaned and that, in 'taming the spirit of the great beasts', we, too, are somehow reduced in stature.
This growing uneasiness with the concept of keeping orcas in captivity has only been increased by a spate of newspaper articles and video footage documenting the reality of the captives' existence. Despite the best attempts of the display industry to blow a smokescreen over such negative publicity, the wider world is now increasingly aware that all is not well in fantasy-land. In recent years, first a trickle, then a steady torrent, of incidents have been reported. A growing catalogue of "accidents", illnesses, failed pregnancies and premature deaths has forced a dramatic reappraisal of the suitability of orcas for confinement.

In 1989, at Sea World's San Diego park, a young female named Kandu rammed into a second female, Corky, with sufficient force that Kandu died almost instantly, in front of a horrified crowd of onlookers. In 1991, at Sealand of the Pacific in Canada, a young female trainer called Keltie Byrne was drowned by Sealand's three resident orcas after she accidentally fell into their tank. In July 1999, a 29 year-old man, Daniel Dukes, was found dead, draped over the back of male orca, Tillikum, at Sea World’s Florida facility. We will probably never know the full story behind his death. Whilst undeniably the most tragic, these incidents were by no means isolated. Aggression between captive orcas and, equally disturbingly, aggression towards trainers, has increased in recent years. Disenchanted trainers and orca advocates alike have alleged that the mental and physical health of the orcas is highly compromised by the captive situation.

For years, the display industry has employed a variety of arguments in its attempt to justify keeping orcas captive. We have been led to believe that captivity benefits both onlookers and animals alike: entertaining and educating audiences whilst, at the same time, providing a comfortable life for the captives. But, as long-term research into wild orca populations increases our knowledge of the species, so the glaring disparities between the lives of the captives and the lives of wild orcas becomes all too apparent.

The reality of existence for the captives has become painfully obvious: cramped, chlorinated tanks, often inhabited by frustrated and unhealthy whales, performing circus tricks which bear little resemblance to their natural behaviour. Many people now feel that witnessing such impoverishment is unlikely to offer any real educational benefit.

 

[julieannbabe]

Name calling is not the way to get people to listen to you and take you seriously. You message is lost in the immaturity.

you are more offended at me calling someone ignorant than the picture i posted of the captured whales?

it says it all really.