Anyone watch "The Cove"

[tammymacb]

I can't watch "The Cove". I'd never sleep again...

My husband and I are scuba divers, we spent a couple weeks at Scuba Club Cozumel recently. In the evening, we'd walk to a local bar. We had to walk past "Dolphanaris" every evening and it made me sick to see the dolphins penned up in their runs, swimming back and forth. ( They had chain link around the sides of the place and you could look through and see the tanks )

We also used to spend a good amount of time in Grand Cayman, one of my favorite dive spots on the planet. There was a HUGE amount of debate between locals when they put in their "Swim with the Dolphin" monstrosity. As much of the water around GC is a protected marine park, most in the dive community found it unforgivable to put such a thing on the island. But again, the all mighty dollar wins out, and with the possibility of the tourist dollar coming onshore to swim with the dolphins...it's there. When people ask about these excursions on cruise boards, I'm like really?? A- Have you heard of "The Cove" and B- You're on freakin' Grand Cayman, snorkel on the real ocean!

I still have my "Keep Dolphins Free Grand Cayman" t shirt. I also haven't spent an extended trip on the island since it opened. I guess it's a little way to boycott the local economy.

Oh, and a bit off topic. But, for those of you debating aquariums VS zoos, read " A Zoo Story, Captive in the Garden of Eden" Fascinating book. I couldn't put it down.

As for Seaworld. The do good things. I used to live in Fla and saw what they did for injured sealife. I know to spend the money they have to make it somewhere else. But, IMO perpetuating the life of a wild animal as a slave is very sad.

 

[chiamarie]

1) Yes I feel that whales/dolphins shouldn't be held captive.

2) I think your 2nd point is absolutely silly. First of all, I think zoo's can do good things, especially when an animal is endangered and zoo's try to help build their population back up. But the reason why I'm not upset with the other animals is because dolphins are STUCK in a tiny little bowl of water. It's akin to sticking your goldfish in a bowl. If you knew anything about dolphins and their way of life you would understand what I'm talking about. Dolphins are completely different from tigers, bears, monkeys, etc.

3) And lastly what gives us the right to take dolphins out of the ocean? Seriously. You think that's okay? Would you like it if a stronger specie dropped by your house, pulled you out, and took you to a glass hall for exhibition?

1) I am not going to discuss/argue about what peoples personal feelings are reguarding captivity. If you feel it isn't right, that's fine by me, you're entitled to that opinion.

2) Yes, zoo's and aquariums do good work. For example, all the rescue and rehab Seaworld does with Manatees, Sea Turtles, and many different types of birds. As to the 2nd part of number 2....see #1.

3) You're right, that is not okay to do. What they're doing in ASIA (where there are no SeaWorlds, but other aquariums that do buy dolphins from drive fisheries) is wrong. I completely agree that what they are doing is sickening, and it needs to be stopped. All I'm saying is that by avoiding Seaworld (or any other park/aquarium/swim-with-dolphin-program in the Western Hemispehere) isn't going to stop the Drive Fisheries, because they don't take animals from the wild. It's illegal (at least for the USA, check out the Marine Mammal Protection Act of 1972) to take them from the wild.

 

[woodkins]

Has anyone seen the new show Blood Dolphins on the Animal Channel? It is appalling the conditions that some of these dolphins are living in. I am not going to get into a debate over whether Sea World is an appropriate way to showcase marine life or not, but if an animal is going to live in captivity it certainly should not be living in a itty bitty tank that is filthy and filled with its own excrement so thick that you cannot see an inch beneath the water.

It is unbelievable to me that there are people in this world that will treat animals that way simply to make a dollar. But then again there are people who treat their children this way for no reason, but that is an entirely different conversation

 

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

Has anyone seen the new show Blood Dolphins on the Animal Channel? It is appalling the conditions that some of these dolphins are living in. I am not going to get into a debate over whether Sea World is an appropriate way to showcase marine life or not, but if an animal is going to live in captivity it certainly should not be living in a itty bitty tank that is filthy and filled with its own excrement so thick that you cannot see an inch beneath the water.

It is unbelievable to me that there are people in this world that will treat animals that way simply to make a dollar. But then again there are people who treat their children this way for no reason, but that is an entirely different conversation

That's why dolphins and whales should be left alone in the ocean. It's impossible to keep them captive and provide them with what they need (An Ocean).

 

[DisneyRockstar]

That's why dolphins and whales should be left alone in the ocean. It's impossible to keep them captive and provide them with what they need (An Ocean).

That's true and well said.

 

[julieannbabe]

You must be an owner of Seaworld? Otherwise I don't understand why you're being so confrontational.

they are being confrontational/defensive because they know i am right - the dolphins/whales perform tricks then they get fed a treat.

you tube any marinepark whale/dolphin show and you will see it.

they know i am right.

when they next go to seaworld they will remember this point i have made.

the truth hurts.

 

[julieannbabe]

my boss watched 'the cove' over the weekend and she found it more perverse the dolphins performing in the marine parks.

of course the killing is terrible - we all know that.

but she is the same as me the captivity/performing issue upsets her just as much if not more.

 

[julieannbabe]

Right because it's easy to tell your kids 1 day "hey kids we're going swimming with the dolphins" and the next say "sorry kids, it was just a joke." That will go over wonderfully right before a family trip.

my boss went on a cruise back in 2000 and her 11 year old daughter wanted to swim with the dolphins.
i think it was in the bahamas. they did a day trip and they went with the intention of her doing the swim with captive dolphins.
they got there and my boss saw people getting in and out the water with the dolphins in a very small holding area or pool invading the already small dolphin space - having their picture taken with them.
she said it made her feel sick - the deep rooted believe of how this was wrong.
she explained it to her daughter - that people keep getting in and out of the water with the dolphins - it wasn't right. she said that the dolphins didn't look particulary happy either.

it broke my boss's heart to do this to her daughter. her daughter actually agreed with her Mother and in the end didn't do the dolphin swim or have her picture taken with the dolphin.

my boss said that if her daughter would have asked for a puppy when they got back home she would have said yes there and then - my boss isn't fond of dogs but this is how bad she felt for her daughter.

but she knew it was wrong keeping the dolphins in capitivity - so people could have there picture taken with them.

 

[julieannbabe]

Im sure they do it with great love and care and plenty of time with them.
I don't think they are been mistreated in any way I think that the work seaworld does is amazing and they care a great deal for them And I will continue to support them.

This tread is about the movie The cove and to me it feels like it is a bash seaworld tread maybe Im miss reading things but that is how I am seeing it

seaworld probably doesn't mistreat any animal they have in their parks - but you don't seem to want to listen or accept the fact that whales/dolphins shouldn't be in captivity or made to do tricks.

you and others that are pro marine parks probably know this deep down but you don't want to admit it to yourself because once you do that you know it is game over.

 

[julieannbabe]

Could not agree more with this, why send so much hate Seaworld's way when there are so many captive animals in the world and some in much worse conditions the those kept at Seaworld?



Took the word's straight out of my mouth, the fish you see them being given in the shows is reinforcement for doing what the trainers what, they don't always get fish but also get other types of reinforcement too.
This is not depriving them of food, it's the exact same way you train any other animal. If you want to teach your dog a trick you might give him a treat if he does what you want, as a reward so he does it again. This doesn't mean you don't also feed your dog, its an extra as reinforcement of good behavior.
Same goes with the Orcas, they are feed everyday whether they do what the trainers ask or not. The fish you see in the shows is a reward/reinforcement of good behavoir.
The trainers love these whales and would never deprive them of food/ mistreat them.

do they give whales/dolphins live fish?

you know they don't.

in the wild it is part of their natural way of live hunting for wild fish.

in capitivity they have no stimulation by giving them dead fish.
being given dead fish by hand goes against their natural instincts.

a newly captured dolphin has to learn to accept that they have to eat dead fish and also accept hand feeding.

 

[julieannbabe]

I can't watch "The Cove". I'd never sleep again...

My husband and I are scuba divers, we spent a couple weeks at Scuba Club Cozumel recently. In the evening, we'd walk to a local bar. We had to walk past "Dolphanaris" every evening and it made me sick to see the dolphins penned up in their runs, swimming back and forth. ( They had chain link around the sides of the place and you could look through and see the tanks )

We also used to spend a good amount of time in Grand Cayman, one of my favorite dive spots on the planet. There was a HUGE amount of debate between locals when they put in their "Swim with the Dolphin" monstrosity. As much of the water around GC is a protected marine park, most in the dive community found it unforgivable to put such a thing on the island. But again, the all mighty dollar wins out, and with the possibility of the tourist dollar coming onshore to swim with the dolphins...it's there. When people ask about these excursions on cruise boards, I'm like really?? A- Have you heard of "The Cove" and B- You're on freakin' Grand Cayman, snorkel on the real ocean!

I still have my "Keep Dolphins Free Grand Cayman" t shirt. I also haven't spent an extended trip on the island since it opened. I guess it's a little way to boycott the local economy.

Oh, and a bit off topic. But, for those of you debating aquariums VS zoos, read " A Zoo Story, Captive in the Garden of Eden" Fascinating book. I couldn't put it down.

As for Seaworld. The do good things. I used to live in Fla and saw what they did for injured sealife. I know to spend the money they have to make it somewhere else. But, IMO perpetuating the life of a wild animal as a slave is very sad.

in the wild dolphins use their sonars to hunt live fish, check out the ocean and other dolphins.
sounds amazing doesn't it? to be a wild dolphin - wow.

in captivity their sonar bounces off the tank - which can drive them crazy or at best restrict them using it. it is similar to making humans wear a blindfold for the rest of their lives.

 

[julieannbabe]

my boss went on a cruise back in 2000 and her 11 year old daughter wanted to swim with the dolphins.
i think it was in the bahamas. they did a day trip and they went with the intention of her doing the swim with captive dolphins.
they got there and my boss saw people getting in and out the water with the dolphins in a very small holding area or pool invading the already small dolphin space - having their picture taken with them.
she said it made her feel sick - the deep rooted believe of how this was wrong.
she explained it to her daughter - that people keep getting in and out of the water with the dolphins - it wasn't right. she said that the dolphins didn't look particulary happy either.

it broke my boss's heart to do this to her daughter. her daughter actually agreed with her Mother and in the end didn't do the dolphin swim or have her picture taken with the dolphin.

my boss said that if her daughter would have asked for a puppy when they got back home she would have said yes there and then - my boss isn't fond of dogs but this is how bad she felt for her daughter.

but she knew it was wrong keeping the dolphins in capitivity - so people could have there picture taken with them.

i just said to my boss that alot of people wouldn't want to upset their child and just let them do the dolphin swim and keep their feeling to themselves

but she just told me that - it was almost like a hotel complex with a tiny pool and a dolphin inside it - it was morally wrong.

she wanted to teach her daughter wrong from right.
i respect that.

 

[Shamurocks]

seaworld probably doesn't mistreat any animal they have in their parks - but you don't seem to want to listen or accept the fact that whales/dolphins shouldn't be in captivity or made to do tricks.

you and others that are pro marine parks probably know this deep down but you don't want to admit it to yourself because once you do that you know it is game over.

Animals probably shouldn't be kept in captivity unless its is for rescue & rehabilitation, so in a way I agree with you.
But the fact is the whales already in captivity cannot be released. Most of them were born in captivity and those that weren't have been in captivity so long they would probably never re-adapt (Keiko is an example).

 

[julieannbabe]

Animals probably shouldn't be kept in captivity unless its is for rescue & rehabilitation, so in a way I agree with you.
But the fact is the whales already in captivity cannot be released. Most of them were born in captivity and those that weren't have been in captivity so long they would probably never re-adapt (Keiko is an example).

the keiko debate.
i am still pleased that they gave it a go at releasing him.

he died - was it four or five years after releasing him back into the wild? he died of pneumonia didn't he? Wild whales can die of pneumonia. it isn't a one off thing

because keikio died of pneumonia do people think this was a total failure? i don't. honestly.

i am gonna be controversial but i think he lived for five years in the wild - he wanted human company and feeding - poor whale was institutionalised but he had that freedom for the final part of his life.

despite the above - my opinion is the same - still release all the whales/dolphins in captivity.

and stop breeding them in captivity.

we gonna keep going back to the same fundamental thing - dolphins/whales shouldn't be kept in captivity.

 

[chiamarie]

my boss watched 'the cove' over the weekend and she found it more perverse the dolphins performing in the marine parks.

of course the killing is terrible - we all know that.

but she is the same as me the captivity/performing issue upsets her just as much if not more.

We all get that you are anti-captivity. But this dicussion is meant to discuss the movie "The Cove". If you want to start an anti-captivity thread, and express your views there, so be it.

The point I am making is this- Boycotting SeaWorld (and other Swim-With-The-Dolphin programs, such as EPCOT AS WELL) will not solve the drive fisheries happening in Japan. That is what Ric O'Barry is claiming. But Seaworld is just as against drive fisheries as the rest of us are. SeaWorld, and all western hemipshpere aquairums that house dolphins, have nothing to do with the Drive Fisheries in Japan. They don't get their dolphins from there.

If you want to boycott seaworld for other reasons, then that is your choice. But that isn't what the discussion should be about here.

 

[julieannbabe]

But the fact is the whales already in captivity cannot be released. Most of them were born in captivity and those that weren't have been in captivity so long they would probably never re-adapt (Keiko is an example).

for the whales captured or born in capitivity how do you defend the performing side of captivity?

 

[julieannbabe]

We all get that you are anti-captivity. But this dicussion is meant to discuss the movie "The Cove". If you want to start an anti-captivity thread, and express your views there, so be it.

The point I am making is this- Boycotting SeaWorld (and other Swim-With-The-Dolphin programs, such as EPCOT AS WELL) will not solve the drive fisheries happening in Japan. That is what Ric O'Barry is claiming. But Seaworld is just as against drive fisheries as the rest of us are. SeaWorld, and all western hemipshpere aquairums that house dolphins, have nothing to do with the Drive Fisheries in Japan. They don't get their dolphins from there.

If you want to boycott seaworld for other reasons, then that is your choice. But that isn't what the discussion should be about here.

yes you right. there should be an anti captivity thread.

the cove and captivity debate are blurring into one.

 

[julieannbabe]

We all get that you are anti-captivity. But this dicussion is meant to discuss the movie "The Cove". If you want to start an anti-captivity thread, and express your views there, so be it.

The point I am making is this- Boycotting SeaWorld (and other Swim-With-The-Dolphin programs, such as EPCOT AS WELL) will not solve the drive fisheries happening in Japan. That is what Ric O'Barry is claiming. But Seaworld is just as against drive fisheries as the rest of us are. SeaWorld, and all western hemipshpere aquairums that house dolphins, have nothing to do with the Drive Fisheries in Japan. They don't get their dolphins from there.

If you want to boycott seaworld for other reasons, then that is your choice. But that isn't what the discussion should be about here.

if no one paid a entrance fee to go to these marine parks in ANY part of the world then i feel alot of the problem would be solved.

 

[irisheyes123]

seaworld probably doesn't mistreat any animal they have in their parks - but you don't seem to want to listen or accept the fact that whales/dolphins shouldn't be in captivity or made to do tricks.

you and others that are pro marine parks probably know this deep down but you don't want to admit it to yourself because once you do that you know it is game over.

Im not pro marine parks Im sure some of them should be shut down The only marine park I have been too is seaworld.

You are entitled to your opinion if you choose to think captivity is wrong thats up to you I think its wrong in some cases like when they are in a tiny cage or been mistreated. And deep down I don't think seaworld is wrong if I did I would not go not everyone is going to think the same as you just like you don't think the same as everyone.

 

[julieannbabe]

Im not pro marine parks Im sure some of them should be shut down The only marine park I have been too is seaworld.

You are entitled to your opinion if you choose to think captivity is wrong thats up to you I think its wrong in some cases like when they are in a tiny cage or been mistreated. And deep down I don't think seaworld is wrong if I did I would not go not everyone is going to think the same as you just like you don't think the same as everyone.

how can a concrete tank in the main stadium at seaworld cater to all the needs of 12 tonne tilly?

and they are not always in there are they? that is the biggest tank.

you have seen the size of the holding pens, right?

even if the whales are in there for 5 minutes it is 5 minutes to long. that is a disgrace.

just to remind you. no one can defend or really believe this holding pen is big enough for a whale.
even the word 'holding pen' sounds horrible