Anyone so fed up with airline prices that you are actually considering driving?

[Lewisc]

Airlines are looking to be profitable. That means fewer money losing fares to destinations like Orlando. SW continues to reduce flights to destinations like Orlando. Offer enough flights to accommodate passengers willing to pay a profitable fare.

There is some misinformation in this thread. A couple of posters are talking about $100 and $150 R/T fares. For the most part those fares are gone. $250-$300 is probably the fare to be budgeting for. You may do better but people still looking for fares below $250 need to be flexible, lucky or have alternate travel plans.

People considering driving shouldn't be using the government number of .50/mile. That's the number that's available for business miles. It includes an allowance for fixed and variable costs. The correct number is the government figure of 16.5 cents per mile. That's the number used for medical or moving miles driven. That figure represents the variable costs of driving a car. People need to adjust that figure based on the fuel economy of their vehicle. Unless driving to WDW will cause you to go over your mileage allowance for a leased car drivers need to consider gas, tolls and maybe a few dollars toward the cost of an oil change.

I don't know where a previous poster got his/her information. I haven't read anything, excepting BS by Spirit's CEO, that suggests the problem is airline wages. The poster who suggested improving first class service and getting more money from business fliers is missing the point. Business fliers are no longer willing to pay the $$$ fares that subsidized the fares we pay. They are using teleconferencing and booking with airlines like SW/Jetblue. Legacy airlines are forced to be a little more reasonable with what they charge business fliers. Affluent fliers will pay $$$ for a seat/bed for a transcontinental flight. Fewer will pay $$$ for a shorter flight.

Using terms like "fed up" suggests some posters are taking this personally. Airlines want to make money. That means not offering us the kind of money losing fares we used to get. Some people will drive.

Diane makes a great point. Driving make some sense if your trip is under 12 hours.

 

[ssawka]

Ok, to be fair food and hotel probably should not be included in the driving versus flying analysis unless you would take a shorter vacation if you flew. I know I wouldn't. I would take just as long of a vacation and stay at WDW longer. Basically, if you don't shorten your vacation then you have to stay and eat somewhere, whether it be on the way or at WDW. Personally I would prefer WDW!

Also, you need to add parking and or transportation to your home airport, unless you have someone that can drive you and pick you up.

That being said, there is no way I would drive, unless it was during a major holiday (Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter). For our family of three, it is actually CHEAPER to fly than drive. Granted, it is because we live in a major Metropolitan area that is serviced by 3 major airports. We can usually get flights for all three of us for around $500, I'd probably spend that in gas!

Also, the name of the game in airfare use to be to hold out until the airline had to sell off unfilled seats and would drop prices. However, the rules of the game have changed and now the earlier you book the better the fare will be. This isn't always true, but alot of airlines and travel sites will guarantee your fare meaning if it drops, you will be reimbursed. The moral is: book your airfare as soon as your other travel plans are made.

 

[Lewisc]

Ok, to be fair food and hotel probably should not be included in the driving versus flying analysis unless you would take a shorter vacation if you flew.

True but then you have to put a value on fewer days at WDW. People who are unable or unwilling to extend their vacation by the couple of days it takes to drive may wind up with a 5 day vacation rather then a 7 day vacation. A fair cost comparison would include the same number of days at WDW.

My answer would be different if the vacation was at least 2-3 weeks.

edited to add: Generally your hotel on the road will cost less then your hotel at WDW. Frequently food consumed on the road will cost less then WDW pricing. Your logic will reduce the relative cost of driving vs flying at the expense of your vacation.

I think a better comparison is keeping the number of days at WDW the same and include the hotel cost in your analysis. I guess you could make the case that bringing food for the road might suggest food costs would be the similar to the cost of eating at home--a wash.

 

[Brian Noble]

If there are those of us here who do not have the means or way to drop a couple thousand on airline tickets and rental cars and prefer a different means, that's our business.

Of course it is. But, if you post about your business on a discussion board, you can expect discussion.

 

[Manda]

I just wouldn't go if I couldn't - or didn't want to - pay for flying. It's not worth it to me to drive down there. I'm not sure what the RT price would have to be for me to just not go though.

 

[DanG07]

We are a family of 6, and it is much cheaper to drive than fly. Even though we live in Chicago and the drive is approx. 20 hrs (with gas/food breaks), we prefer to drive for many reasons, aside from the costs benefits:

1) We can bring whatever we want without having to worry about the baggage fees. With very young kids, we need to have strollers in order to survive at WDW. Renting strollers at WDW or even from the off-site vendors really adds up.

2) At the airport, it is really inconvenient to have 4 children go through the security checkpoints and lug around all of the bags. Granted, you could check some bags, but with younger kids, you need to bring certain essentials with you on your carry-on bags.

3) Waiting at an airport is hit or miss. Most flights take off on time, but a few don't. If adults get antsy waiting to board, imagine four tired kids.

4) My wife and I are very conscientious about how our kids behave on the flight. So, for approx. 3 hours we are constantly trying to keep our kids quiet and well-behaved, but stuff happens always happens. There is nothing worse than having one of your kids going through a meltdown and having other passengers give you dirty looks. You feel helpless.

5) Rental cars (i.e. minivans or SUVs) for bigger families are astronomical. In addition, you have to pack or rent car seats. We can always take ME and use the WDW transportation, but we prefer to come and go as we please and using the WDW transportation is really hard to do with 4 kids and two strollers. Having our own mini-van is super convenient to exploring WDW, Orlando, and a quick getaway to the St. Petes/Tampa/Clearwater area.

6) If you leave for the roadtrip at night and drive straight-through, you only miss one day traveling to WDW and one day traveling back home. Plus, with our minivan's DVD player, we immerse the kids with 20 hrs of Disney movies. It really gets them in the mood for WDW. Going to the airport 2 hours before the flight takes off, flying, retrieving your bags from the luggage carousel and then going to your hotel takes approx. 10 hrs.

Overall, driving vs. flying is each family's decision based on their circumstances. I have unused miles on my United Mileage Plus Visa that can easily cover a trip for all of our family members. Yet, we prefer to drive because of all of the other factors metioned above.

 

[budbeerlady]

I really envy those who are close enough to drive in a day. I know airlines can not stay in business at $59 each way coming from the Midwest, that doesn't make me feel any better. Instead of a few short trips in a year we will complain about the high airfare cost and go for 10 days at a time. I was happy to find airfare fare under $300 for our Christmas trip but I sure miss our $150 round trip with bags and seat assignment days! No AP for us this year, lol!

 

[ssawka]

As you said, it is a personal decision, but I don't completely agree on some of your points.

1) We can bring whatever we want without having to worry about the baggage fees. With very young kids, we need to have strollers in order to survive at WDW. Renting strollers at WDW or even from the off-site vendors really adds up.

We always check our stroller at the gate, no fee and you have it readily available when you deplane. I do agree that you have to pack less, but we're on vacation, we don't need much.

2) At the airport, it is really inconvenient to have 4 children go through the security checkpoints and lug around all of the bags. Granted, you could check some bags, but with younger kids, you need to bring certain essentials with you on your carry-on bags.

I mostly agree with this one, it can be a pain getting kids through security, but to each their own. I personally would take 10 minutes of this toture over 20 hours in a car. Also, as with #1, pack less, you're on vacation. If you need essentials, you can always have them delivered to the resort, or if you go often enough, you could always get an owner's locker.

3) Waiting at an airport is hit or miss. Most flights take off on time, but a few don't. If adults get antsy waiting to board, imagine four tired kids.

I guess we've been lucky, but we haven't had much of a delay yet, though I know it does happen.

4) My wife and I are very conscientious about how our kids behave on the flight. So, for approx. 3 hours we are constantly trying to keep our kids quiet and well-behaved, but stuff happens always happens. There is nothing worse than having one of your kids going through a meltdown and having other passengers give you dirty looks. You feel helpless.

Again, 3 hours of a cranky kid versus 20 hours. I'll take the 3. As for the other passengers, @$!# if they give you dirty looks. It's a flight to Orlando after all. This dosen't mean let the kids be unrulely, but sometimes there's nothing you can do.

5) Rental cars (i.e. minivans or SUVs) for bigger families are astronomical. In addition, you have to pack or rent car seats. We can always take ME and use the WDW transportation, but we prefer to come and go as we please and using the WDW transportation is really hard to do with 4 kids and two strollers. Having our own mini-van is super convenient to exploring WDW, Orlando, and a quick getaway to the St. Petes/Tampa/Clearwater area.

Can't comment on rental cars, we never rent. I'm a get me to Disney and I don't want to see a car for a week kind of a traveler. In DC, I spend too much time in my car anyway.

6) If you leave for the roadtrip at night and drive straight-through, you only miss one day traveling to WDW and one day traveling back home. Plus, with our minivan's DVD player, we immerse the kids with 20 hrs of Disney movies. It really gets them in the mood for WDW. Going to the airport 2 hours before the flight takes off, flying, retrieving your bags from the luggage carousel and then going to your hotel takes approx. 10 hrs.

Does it really only waste one day? I know if I did 20 hours straight through, I would want to do anything the first day.

This is not a personal attack on you or your post, it's just meant to illustrate that one persons benefit is another person's disadvantage, but as I said in the beginning, it's a personal choice.

 

[DanG07]

Ssawka, I appreciate the discussion on this topic and do not view anything you have said as a personal attack. As for some of your points against driving, as I mentioned in my previous posts, it depends on each family's circumstances. If we had 1 or 2 kids instead of four, then flying might be more convenient for us.

You mentioned packing less, but again, bringing enough clothes for 6 family members is significantly more than for 3 or 4 family members. As for your doubt to my contention that driving only wastes a day, we leave our home at 1 am or 2 am and get to WDW about 9-10 pm. Obviously we are exhausted at that point. We then sleep for 8-10 hrs and are ready to go the next day. Hence only 1 day wasted. We rationalize this to ourselves by saying that even if we flew in to Orlando, by the time we get to the hotel, check in, and get to our room, we are too tired to visit the parks that day. At best we would have dinner at DTD with 4 cranky kids.

Again, as I mentioned, we also prefer to have a car on our vacation. It is really difficult for us to go around WDW with 4 kids on the WDW transportation. We did it on our 1st trip to WDW (with only 3 kids) and vowed never again. We felt that we were either waiting for or traveling on buses more than we were in the parks.

As an added bonus, with a car, we also can visit the Orlando Premium Outlet Mall, which makes my wife happy. You know what they say "A happy wife = a happy life."

 

[NancyIL]

The only way we could afford some of our family vacations was because we used FF miles for our family of 5. The few times we drove to Florida, we stopped halfway at my sister's house in Alabama for a few nights, then resumed our drive.

Now that my kids are all young adults and my DH doesn't fly as much on business, we save the FF miles for expensive flights. When we flew to Orlando at Thanksgiving 2007 from 3 different cities (Indianapolis, Chicago, and Dallas) - we paid $1200 for airfare for 5 people.

 

[Oz!]

driving from the panhandle of Texas to Orlando would just kill me!

we drive to Austin (9 hours) to Houston (10 1/2 hours) two to three times a year and that is far enough for me!

No direct flights for us from here to MCO, but 6 hour flight compared to 15-18 hours in the car...i will fly.

JMO!

 

[SurfinTX]

I don't know where a previous poster got his/her information. I haven't read anything, excepting BS by Spirit's CEO, that suggests the problem is airline wages. The poster who suggested improving first class service and getting more money from business fliers is missing the point. Business fliers are no longer willing to pay the $$$ fares that subsidized the fares we pay. They are using teleconferencing and booking with airlines like SW/Jetblue. Legacy airlines are forced to be a little more reasonable with what they charge business fliers. Affluent fliers will pay $$$ for a seat/bed for a transcontinental flight. Fewer will pay $$$ for a shorter flight.

Specificaly I would be talking about British Airways and how they have challenged the unions over the last two years. They are one of the few European airlines that have managed to get in the black this year during the recovery. I think that Singapore Air and Emirates have figured out how to create that balance between affordable short haul and the premium first and business class on longer hauls. Asian and Middle Eastern airlines have grown by 25% in the recovery while growing profitibilty as well. Most legacy carriers in the U.S. have been only able to recover by 6% and most are still losing money.

I'm not saying I have all of the answers but I have a feeling that just raising airfares will not solve what ails the airlines. Like any business they are constrained by demand and unless a company wishes to shrink, thereby losing loadings, losing flights, gates at airports and everything else that comes with fewer customers, then they will need to look internaly for the solution.

Your point about the discount airlines is right on. The legacy airlines need to set themselves apart in service, especialy in that 2-3 hour flight range where the discounters are murdering them. It's a tough and complex industry which requires innovative thinking to make it work.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Your point about the discount airlines is right on. The legacy airlines need to set themselves apart in service, especialy in that 2-3 hour flight range where the discounters are murdering them.

Except the legacy airlines can't set themselves apart in service - not because of the low cost airlines, but because the passengers refuse to pay anything more than the barest minimum fare. It wouldn't matter if Southwest/JetBlue/AirTran/etc. didn't exist. Everybody wants the cheapest fare possible. There's a thread here right now where somebody's complaining because Southwest's fares are so high. That poster is accustomed to paying $59-$109 one way. They didn't post the fares they consider "too high", but a random check of the month they're flying shows the lowest fares at... $114 one way. That's a full FIVE DOLLARS more than the highest fare they're accustomed to paying in the past - but it's "so/too high"?

 

[goofy4tink]

We can all agree that airfares have gone up in the past year or so. BUT...when I first started heading to WDW, from Mass, back in '99, if I got a fare under $275 I was thrilled. Then, fares started going down....I was paying $230!! Wow, I was thrilled. Then....they went down to around $200. Pig heaven. When I started getting fares of $79, each way, I was truly thrilled.
But, fares have started going back up. Those people that have booked in the past 5 years have been spoiled by very low fares. Now, fares of $250 seem high to them....I can understand that. But, that's going to be the reality now. Airlines can not come close to profitability with very low fares.
We are seeing fewer flights, and the remaining flights are chock-a-block full..not many empty seats anymore. And the fares are more substantial than they have been in recent years.

If I were to try to decide between driving and flying, I would have to include all the costs involved. But, I have to tell you...there is no way I would decrease my WDW stay from a week to 4 days because I had to spend a total of 4 days driving. And there is just no way we are driving straight through.
I have a bunch of much younger friends. There were 8 of them. They took two cars, one a rental van and the other a personal car. They drove straight through from central Mass to WDW, for April vacation. It took them about 24 hrs. They all took turns driving and sleeping....there was always one person awake with the driver...which makes sense. I do know that several of them said they would never, ever do that again. It was a huge drain on them physically and they were really tired for the first day of their trip..they left here around 10pm and arrived in Orlando around 10pm the next day, so were able to get some sleep before hitting the parks the first day. But, they were dragging.

Whether or not you fly or drive...it's up to each family to decide what works best for them. For us, each leg of our 'flying' trip is about 7 hrs of actual travel...getting to the airport, waiting at the airport, actual flying time and then time from the airport to the resort.

 

[n2mm]

I bought my airfare many months ago for my October trip. Flying Jetblue from Dulles/Wash.DC to Orlando for $59 each way.

 

[ssawka]

I bought my airfare many months ago for my October trip. Flying Jetblue from Dulles/Wash.DC to Orlando for $59 each way.

I think we are spoiled by the airfares we get out of D.C. As I mentioned in a previous post, it is very nice to have 3 major airports in the D.C. area. I also think that some of the other airports also help with competition, such as Philly and Richmond.

 

[NancyIL]

I flew from Chicago to Tampa in 1982, and I was thrilled that the fare was $99 each way! The lowest fare I've paid from Bloomington, IL was $69 each way in Dec. 2009, and that was booked last June. They briefly had $78 fares for travel this fall, but right now the "sale" fares are $99 each way, and the regular fares are $109 plus taxes.

I did get a $59 fare for December...from San Juan to Orlando. (I'll be on a cruise that ends in San Juan.) I booked it shortly after AirTran opened Dec. bookings, and now that flight is $99. I'm paying $109 for the MCO-BMI return flight on Dec. 17, because the "sales" haven't extended to December travel.

 

[Lewisc]

I'm not saying I have all of the answers but I have a feeling that just raising airfares will not solve what ails the airlines. Like any business they are constrained by demand and unless a company wishes to shrink, thereby losing loadings, losing flights, gates at airports and everything else that comes with fewer customers, then they will need to look internaly for the solution.

Your point about the discount airlines is right on. The legacy airlines need to set themselves apart in service, especialy in that 2-3 hour flight range where the discounters are murdering them. It's a tough and complex industry which requires innovative thinking to make it work.

Passengers flying to leisure destinations like Orlando are seeking fares that are unprofitable no matter the airline does. People on DIS are still looking for $100 R/T fares. Legacy airlines have slashed service to those destinations. Southwest has also reduced service to Orlando.

Moving planes from routes that are unprofitable to routes that are more profitable (or less unprofitable) is the kind of innovate thinking you're talking about.

 

[bear_mom]

Here's our cost break down: 2 flight (me and dd) for $444 on AT, non-stop. 2 flights with FF miles (dh and dd) - free. Dh and dd will get a $25 credit each for costs assoicated with flying, so we will pay $5/each way for our 2 checked bags. Add in $20 for food/drinks each way (our flights are such that we will be in DW by lunch time and will leave DW after dinner, so no meals...). Total cost: <$500.

The costs of spending 20 hours in my van with dh?

It is bad enough to spend 8 hours in the car with him, I couldn't even begin to imagine him trapped in a car for 20 hours.

Emily

 

[kaytieeldr]

We can all agree that airfares have gone up in the past year or so. BUT...when I first started heading to WDW, from Mass, back in '99, if I got a fare under $275 I was thrilled. Then, fares started going down....I was paying $230!! Wow, I was thrilled. Then....they went down to around $200. Pig heaven. When I started getting fares of $79, each way, I was truly thrilled.
But, fares have started going back up. Those people that have booked in the past 5 years have been spoiled by very low fares. Now, fares of $250 seem high to them....

The best fare I ever got was $99 round trip on Southwest (of course, I had to drive to Providence, pay to park, drive home REALLY late at night) for a long weekend, a few years ago. The most I've ever paid round-trip to Florida was $230.

The most I've ever paid - okay, not yet, but will for my upcoming trip - to Las Vegas is $388. The least? Granted, it involved a voucher and a sale, but... $111. Yes, round trip.

Funny thing - as far as I'm concerned, for what I get, every single one of those fares was or will be a bargain. Even that 'high' fare works out to just over seven cents a mile.