Anyone regret buying DVC?

[MarylandPirate]

I should have bought years ago!

 

[deerh]

Nope, NO regrets at all!!

DeerH

 

[cubanor]

I grew up going to Disneyland in California......my love for Disney began at the age of 5 years old. My husband and I have not regreted buying DVC and every trip.........4-5 times a year we always celebrate our good investment. We have given points to our kids, cruised, use points for AKL savanna view, taking grandkids, whole families, and used all the DVC properties according to our moods.

 

[reedycreek]

i just bought into DVC, and have been wondering if i made a good choice. my only real problem with it is, that i love staying at the POLY, and hate the thought of not being on the monorail. yes, you can use DVC points for the POLY, but its just doesnt make sense to do that. so, as i get ready for my first DVC trip to BWV in Nov, i am a little sad that i wont be staying at POLY this time, but i am keeping an open mind.

also, i do think DVC does make very good financial sense if you use it a lot. since i am single, and only really need a studio, it looks like i can stay at Disney about 11-12 nights a year (i only travel in the value seasons due to my work schedule) with the program with my 150 points. if the going rate for the POLY (which i would stay in without DVC) was $300 a night, thats about $3600 a year for staying at WDW deluxe. just doing some rough, very rought basic math, that doesnst account for any economic complexities, i can now stay at a deluxe resort (althought not my favorite, the POLY) for about $900 a year...thats a big savings. here's my very very very very basic math:

$13,500 initial investment for 150 points ($14,700 - $1,200 credit from disney)
625 a year maint fees x 49 years = $30625

$44,125/49 years = $950 a year

now, my maint fees are not $625 a year, but i just used an average that i pulled out of my head, which does not account for inflation. but my basic math justifies the purchase for me.

so for $950 a year (less now), i can stay at a deluxe resort for about 11-12 nights a year...considering i go to disney 1-2 times a year that works for me.

again, my only complaint is that i cant stay at my favorite resort (and also using the points at Disneyland isnt worth it).

 

[reedycreek]

oh, and more importantly, if you are able to forget the financial benefits or disadvantages to owning DVC, if you do decide to do it, you are still "owning" a part of disney in a weird kinda way, and have a place to "return home" at your leisure!

 

[SonicLogic]

Most all DVC owners are going to tell you to whip out your wallet and buy! They honestly think the DVC is a good deal. Surely they thought long and hard before they decided to buy into the DVC and they don't like it when non DVC members question that expenditure. Some DVC members feel insulted when people like me question the financial wisdom of a DVC contract. However, with some trepidation (puts on flame suit), I say the following. Cost wise, it clearly makes no sense. You can rent DVC points for far less money per stay (no matter how often or how infrequently) than any "ownership" of points. Low cost DVC rental points are abundant during any time of the year.

 

[gjw007]

However, with some trepidation (puts on flame suit), I say the following. Cost wise, it clearly makes no sense. You can rent DVC points for far less money per stay (no matter how often or how infrequently) than any "ownership" of points. Low cost DVC rental points are abundant during any time of the year.

This is only a true statement in some circumstances. Points rental always cost more than what the points cost if owned. The cost per point is the depreciated cost of the initial purchase plus the annual maintanence fee. The depreciated cost is the initial purchase divided by the number of years remaining in the contract and this figure will always remain constant for the duration of the contract. For example, if you purchase VWL at $78 (from resales listed by DV Resale) with 36 years remaining, the depreciated cost per year is 78/36 or $2.16666 per point per year. You need to include closing costs as well but it adds a minimal amount to the depreciation figure. While I don't remember the exact amount of the maintanence fee for VWL but it should be somewhere around $4.70, give or take a little. For simplicity of doing the math, let's round the total of the maintanence fees and the depreciation cost to $7.00. This is the cost of ownership per point per year. If you rent it for anything over this price, the owner makes some money. If you rent it for less than this, the owner takes a loss.

Again for simplicity, let's say that you have exactly the amount of points that is needed for a vacation. In this case, let's use one week in May (Dream Season) at VWL which requires 123 points to stay 7 nights. The cost of ownership at $7 per point is $861.00. The cost of renting points at $10 per point is $1230.00. This should demonstrate that the cost ownership is less than the cost of renting if you own exactly the number of points that is required, no more, no less.

What happens if you own more points than are needed? Ah ahh, you say that you've got me now since you can only purchase 150 points directly in your inital ownership purchase from Disney. Okay, we know that renting points at $10 per point will cost you $1230.00 for the vacation. But if you own 150 points, it will cost you $1050 (150 * $7). Still owning slightly more than you require results in a savings. It becomes even more of a savings if the excess points, 27, are rented for $10 reducing the ownership cost by $270 to a total cost of ownership to $780 ($1050 - $270).

While the depreciation figure will stay the same each year, the maintanence amount will vary. It should also be expected that the rental rate will also vary, probably going up.

This comparison can be taken one step further. I choose VWL because of the Wilderness Lodge (WL) provides the most direct comparison to a Deluxe Hotel as they are both in the same area, same theming, roughly same size, etc. The least expensive room rate at WL is $200 per night. I'm seen some people post that they have gotten it for $140 per night with the AP discount. So using $140 per night, the week's stay is $980

What circumstance results in savings by renting points rather than owning? You can get points at or less than the cost of owning. Depending on the resort and when you bought (a person who bought at $60 with 45 years left has a lower amortized amount than a person who bought at $80 with 36 years left - the maintanence figure is the same for both), the cost of ownership should fall somewhere between $6 to $7. Even if you can get points rented from somebody at a distressed rate of $7.50 per point, the cost of ownership is still less. While owning slightly more points than necessary is still lower in cost, if there is a lot of points that aren't used and they are let expire, it is better to rent points. Likewise, if you own points and don't use them, it would cost you less to rent than to own. I think there was a post once on this board where it was stated that some people who purchased DVC membership never used their points and let them expire year after year. For them, it would have been cheaper to rent. It also probably not wise to own if you don't go to Disney at least once every other year (although some of the smaller points owners who do the bank-and-borrow dance every third year may also be workable and more economical). There is of course, the intangible feel of "Owning a piece of the Magic!", which has no monetary value attached.

The numbers suggest that owning is better than renting if you use the points. This should not be a surprise as it has been stated on this board over and over that DVC membership might be for you if you stay at least every other year in a deluxe property. But each person's situation is different and it should be evaluated on these circumstances. I ended up purchasing a DVC membership after going to WDW for 10 years. For me, it makes $ense but for others, it may not.

If you have questions on depreciation (or amortization), you can review this in any accounting text or IRS publications. In the examples, I based it on owning the membership for the duration of its life. The depreciation figure is actually (the purchase price - residual value) divided by number of years used. If you sell the property, the depreciation figure will change (in the past this has helped reduce the cost of ownership as DVC prices have gone up, a trend that may continue in the short term but it will be zero at the end of the contractual life - 2042 or 2054).

 

[PepeLePirate]

Been a DVC member for 2 years, love the concept, love Disney, love the resorts. If financially you can't commit to this, then don't do it. If you like to have the satisfaction of negotiating every single vacation, go ahead. If you like to have a smooth, worry free process to book your vacation and you plan to visit WDW a lot, then this is for you.

 

[allie&mattsmom]

No regrets here! I keep trying to talk DH into buying more points because we go so much, we end up borrowing. After my trip in August, I will have borrowed all of our '06 points except for two. I'll have to wait till Feb. 06 and borrow '07 points if I want. Have we discussed maybe selling in the past? Yep, you bet we have. DH says if we sell, we can still go to Disney, which is true, but if I have my way, we will always be DVC'ers!

 

[WDW LOVR]

This debate could go on forever. To me it is completely a personal thing. Could we have made more money if we invested our money and paid cash for our trips to WDW each year? Probably, especially if you have to finance. Do I care? No.

In fact, I don't care so much I just called DVC today to add more points! We're on the waitlist for 87 points at BWV.

 

[DVCconvert]

This debate could go on forever.

What debate??

We're right, and,
Sonic

Cost wise, it clearly makes no sense.

is simply wrong!

 

[joepoe]

Most all DVC owners are going to tell you to whip out your wallet and buy! They honestly think the DVC is a good deal. Surely they thought long and hard before they decided to buy into the DVC and they don't like it when non DVC members question that expenditure. Some DVC members feel insulted when people like me question the financial wisdom of a DVC contract. However, with some trepidation (puts on flame suit), I say the following. Cost wise, it clearly makes no sense. You can rent DVC points for far less money per stay (no matter how often or how infrequently) than any "ownership" of points. Low cost DVC rental points are abundant during any time of the year.

My cost per point is about 5 bucks. Tell me how you are going to get me a BWV 2BR for a week of my own choosing (about 270 points) for only $1,350
Clearly, there are many things people can do with their money. If buying DVC makes no sense to you, then don't do it. I have an MBA in finance and a CPA, so some of us know what the difference between investments and discretionary income used for vacations.

 

[lllovell]

My biggest regret - that I don't have a CLUE how to squeeze more vacation time out of hubby's job so that we can take the family on one more week long vacation this year. I have points. I am a planner. I am frugal. WE didn't stay in deluxe accomidations before buying into DVC (we DID do the moderates some) but I never want to go back to ONLY being able to get a room at POP Century with 2 children, one coming, etc. We will still use the values and moderates (well - maybe...if this Best Rate program gets the kinks worked out), but my heart lies in taking REAL vacations, in making real memories. I don't want to rush. I want to take friends along sometimes. I want my children to love going on vacation to spend happy times with hubby and I as much as I want them to want to go to Mickey's house. Its not all about the parks anymore for us and that is exactly how it works best!

Good luck with your decision. Do crunch the numbers. You will know if its right for you! We are fanatics here, but how can DVC have 90,000 owners involved and yet really overall so few resales if they aren't putting out a fantastic product?

 

[Safari Queen]

SonicLogic, someone must have hurt you very badly for such a negative post and attitude. Why are you even on this board with that perspective?

 

[vanstoj]

Most all DVC owners are going to tell you to whip out your wallet and buy! They honestly think the DVC is a good deal. Surely they thought long and hard before they decided to buy into the DVC and they don't like it when non DVC members question that expenditure. Some DVC members feel insulted when people like me question the financial wisdom of a DVC contract. However, with some trepidation (puts on flame suit), I say the following. Cost wise, it clearly makes no sense. You can rent DVC points for far less money per stay (no matter how often or how infrequently) than any "ownership" of points. Low cost DVC rental points are abundant during any time of the year.

Do you think you will still be able to continue to rent at $10.00 a point in the future? Given the recent rise in hotel prices (between 6% - 14% as travel picks up again since 9/11, see the recent article in USA Today about this very issue), logically rental prices will increase as hotel room costs increase. Also, most people put the costs of their points at $5 -7 per points after considering initial cost and maintenance fees. I seriously question whether you are now able to rent points at $6 a point. The cheapest I saw on TUG was for $625 for a week with the points expiring within 3 months of the listing. It was for a set week, no flexibility. The others were listed at between $1,000 and $1400 for a 5 day rental. I did see one on the rental site that was at about $6.25 a point at Boardwalk but the points expired at the end of this month and the listing was on 7/1/05. Perhaps you could point us to some recent adds showing the $5 a point rental? It would be especially helpful if you could show that these points are available for peak time such as summer or Christmas when most families must travel. In fact, most people will tell you that it is now difficult to rent points at $10 a point. It is easy to assert something as a fact, however, if you do not have to proof to back it up I would have to say it is your opinion.

 

[GrimGhost]

Nope. It dosen't. As it's OFF topic. Sorry.
Perhaps it's best if you just go on 'makeing millions' and let the rest of us 'struggle along' .

Thanks DVCconvert, I didn't have a chance to get back to thread in a timely fashion..

The top rated low cost 500 index fund is Vanguard's Investor shares (Admiral shares which incur even lower costs did not exist ten years ago). It averaged annual returns of 9.87% over the last ten years and only if you reinvested all income. Over the same period the 500 index had average annual returns of 9.94%. Annual performance ranged from a single year high of 37.45% to a single year low of -28.62%. And those returns are not adjusted for inflation.

When I compare my costs of DVC vs no DVC I use an opportunity cost of 8% on the prepaid money which is a more balanced investment portfolio return. And DVC still comes out ahead.

Thanks Jim C, I knew somebody would be ready with ACTUAL figures.

....Clearly, there are many things people can do with their money. If buying DVC makes no sense to you, then don't do it. I have an MBA in finance and a CPA, so some of us know what the difference between investments and discretionary income used for vacations.

In the end, I think this sums it up!!

 

[GrimGhost]

Most all DVC owners are going to tell you to whip out your wallet and buy! They honestly think the DVC is a good deal. Surely they thought long and hard before they decided to buy into the DVC and they don't like it when non DVC members question that expenditure. Some DVC members feel insulted when people like me question the financial wisdom of a DVC contract.....

Why would you feel it would matter to us, whether or not someone agreed with our decision?? That seems you are ASSuming we are a bit immature don't you think?

And having read through the entire thread, I feel the need to question your financial wisdom.

 

[edenlee]

We are from "over the pond" in good old UK and we do not regret our DVC purchase one little bit! We can afford a one month stay every two years which is just grate for us. That way there is something new nearly every time we go and we get a different persepective from DD who, as she gets older, loves disney more and more. When we get too old, she can have the benefit too. So all in all, a great decision for us. By the way we did look at buying a holiday home in the UK but after adding up the cost of buying and the annual maintenance etc - guess what??? DVC was cheaper in the long run!! Go figure!!!

 

[CharlesTD]

Ok what is to regret about buying DVC you get many many years at te current rate of the buyin. We loved the freedom DVC offers us and we are in the category of regret not getting it sooner.

 

[Jison]

We have been members since 1993. We have tons of points that have been paid for since 1995. NO regrets at all.