Anyone here actually been DENIED pre-boarding on Southwest with children under 5?

[texasthree]

I would just preboard and "save" a seat for your mother. Just sit in the aisle, put baby by the window and get yourself situated. We always only preboard one parent and our son then save the seat in the middle. If someone asks if the seat is taken, I say yes. I have never had anyone care at all. Our son turns 5 in July and I will no longer be flying southwest. I cant be sure that I will always get an A pass and I certainly cant sit seperated from a 5 year old. I dont need to preboard and really would prefer not too since its longer on the plane for him but I have to sit with him so we preboard.

 

[Alice28]

The purpose of pre-boarding is to accomodate those passengers that require additional time boarding. That purpse is lost when a significant portion of the plane pre-boards.

I've been on flights where pre-baording was not allowed for famlies with young children. I think an exception was made for parents who paid for a seat that was going to be used by a child who was using an approved car seat.

I always pay for a seat! ESPECIALLY when flying across country to Florida!

 

[taximomfor4]

On our flight from MCO to MDW, they only allowed parents with young children UNDER 4 to preboard if the kids were going to be in a car seat on the plane. I guess to allow the parents enough time to buckle in the car seat. I can honestly say that a large portion of the plane had a small child with them, so preboarding all of them, especially lap babies, would have been unnecessary.

Beth

 

[ducklite]

In the event of a "crash" landing, yes, your lapbaby will have to be placed on the floor at your feet. There's no way you could hold on to that child during strong g-forces and then an impact (regardless of what almost every mother claims, it's physically impossible--like mothers whose baby have been ripped from their arms during a tornado, same idea.). They don't want the child to become a projectile, possibly injuring or killing another passenger in the cabin. Studies have proven that a 30-pound child thrusts outward with a force equivalent to a 480-pound object in a crash landing.

That in itself is a good reason to buy a them seat and securely fasten your child into their car seat. I have several concrete real life examples of why kids are safer buckled in to their own seats.

1. 1989 Sioux City, IA, UAL flight crashes, one lap baby dead, one injured. (In fairness two others were not seriously injured--but those are not odds I'd gamble with) Most train of thought is that the deceased child would have survived uninjured had they been in a car seat due to where he was on the plane in relation to survivors.

2. 1994 Charlotte, NC, US Airways flight crashed, the NTSB determined that the 9 month old lap baby who died WOULD HAVE SURVIVED had she been buckled into a car seat.

3. 1987 a six month old lap baby on a CO flight died in a crash due to multiple skull injuries. His parents and others in seats around him survived, leading investigators to believe that the child would also have survived the crash.

4. 1990 A seven week old lap baby was severely injured with head trauma when an AA jet hit severe turbulence and the child was wrenched from it's mothers arms and hit the ceiling. That was the ONLY serious injury onboard that flight.

There are four O2 masks in most aisles (only three in exit rows as children aren't allowed there anyhow) which is why only one lap baby is allowed per row. There are not extra floatation devices for lap babies. There are also not child sized life vests.

Anne

 

[goofy4tink]

I flew SW out of TF Green last August. I had an A boarding pass, as did my 12 y/o dd. We were 8th in the line. Now....there had to be about 35 people in the preboard line....a lot of extended family members with those young kids. I have no problem with a parent, or even both parents, but I do have an issue with the parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles and those kids over the age of 5 all boarding together. And, there was a ton of seat saving...even when it was the entire group boarding together. Seems that they were hoping no one would sit in that middle seat if they said it was saved. Then, they would have the entire row of 3 seats for just two passengers!!! Sorry, but that's not right. If there is a family of say, 2 parents, a child of 4 and a child of 7, then sure, board them all together. But, the extended family doesn't have to be with them.
That same flight I actually saw a disabled person, and rightfully so by all appearances, go and preboard, and then sit in the exit row!!! And was a bit put out when the FA told them they couldn't sit there, that you had to be physically able to do such and such. When the passenger said that they could do that, the FA told them that they had preboarded as disabled, so no exit row!!!
By the time my dd and I boarded, we were about 2/3 of the way back...no window/middle seats together until about 6 rows behind the wing. And there were plenty of people that had to move and either sit in that middle seat, or have a stranger sit inbetween them and their child!!!
If too many people abuse this priviledge, then they will do away with preboarding. And that would be a shame for those that try to preboard the correct way.

 

[tjmw2727]

I would just preboard and "save" a seat for your mother. Just sit in the aisle, put baby by the window and get yourself situated. We always only preboard one parent and our son then save the seat in the middle. If someone asks if the seat is taken, I say yes. I have never had anyone care at all. Our son turns 5 in July and I will no longer be flying southwest. I cant be sure that I will always get an A pass and I certainly cant sit seperated from a 5 year old. I dont need to preboard and really would prefer not too since its longer on the plane for him but I have to sit with him so we preboard.

Please, only do this if you have paid for a seat for the baby, otherwise put lap babies on your lap until boarding has finished! There were 4 lap babies on my flight from MCO earlier this month and none of the parents had the children on laps but instead put them in a seat in hopes of securing an extra - unpaid for seat. This messsed up the boarding and we ended up 4 seats short. The gate agent had to board the aircraft and call out the names of the passengers with lap babies in order to find the remaining seats.

FWIW, for preboarding the gate agent allowed children under 4, parents and siblings only as well as those with the blue pre-boarding pass. This was consistant at phi and mco.

I would plan on getting the A pass just in case and have a plan for not preboarding, then if you are able to preboard with help thats a bonus.

TJ

 

[bjakmom]

I can confirm by personal experience that you have to place lap babies on the floor between your feet in case of emergency landing!! When DS was 5 mos old (long before SWA was in business) we were traveling from LA to Chicago and had an emergency landing scenario. It was the longest 30 mins of my life - imagine trying to hold a squirming 5 mos old between your feet on the floor while you assume crash position yourself - totally panicking in the knowledge that you cannot hold onto your child during impact! Needless to say I have ALWAYS bought a seat for my kids (and now for my grandkids) on every trip ever since. Better safe than sorry !!
Fortunately we landed safely - surrounded by fire engines, ambulances, and emergency crews that we luckily had no need for - and my family still loves to fly!

 

[DebbieB]

I would just preboard and "save" a seat for your mother. Just sit in the aisle, put baby by the window and get yourself situated. We always only preboard one parent and our son then save the seat in the middle. If someone asks if the seat is taken, I say yes. I have never had anyone care at all. Our son turns 5 in July and I will no longer be flying southwest. I cant be sure that I will always get an A pass and I certainly cant sit seperated from a 5 year old. I dont need to preboard and really would prefer not too since its longer on the plane for him but I have to sit with him so we preboard.

Keep in mind you are not guaranteed seats together on other airlines. There has been post after post lately where people's seat assignments were changed and the family was no longer seated together.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I would just preboard and "save" a seat for your mother. Just sit in the aisle, put baby by the window and get yourself situated.

Given that the OP is not purchasing a ticket for the baby, she can NOT do this. She can, of course, temporarily put the baby in the seat immediately next to hers then, when her mother boards, place the baby in her lap so her mother can sit in that seat.

 

[seashoreCM]

>>> Seems that they were hoping no one would sit in that middle seat if they said it was saved. Then, they would have the entire row of 3 seats for just two passengers!!!

If they don't have another family member eventually arriving then someone else may have to take that middle seat.

>>> That same flight I actually saw a disabled person, and rightfully so by all appearances, go and preboard, and then sit in the exit row!!! And was a bit put out when the FA told them they couldn't sit there, that you had to be physically able to do such and such. When the passenger said that they could do that, the FA told them that they had preboarded as disabled, so no exit row!!!

FA said the wrong thing at first, he should have come right out and say (correctly) that a preboard may not take a wing exit seat. No need to mention abilities, disabilities, or responsibilities.

>>> By the time my dd and I boarded, we were about 2/3 of the way back...no window/middle seats together until about 6 rows behind the wing.

Even if you were at the end of the C line your child seat has to go somewhere and the people in the row you choose to put the child seat will move rather than (1) have the child seat between them and the aisle and/or (2) have you reach across them possibly from a standing position in the aisle to put the bottle in the child's mouth.

>>> The purpose of preboarding is ...

... to enable the plane to board more quickly and take off sooner. The gate agents appraise the situation and guess whether the goal will be achieved by including families with small children in the preboard line. Sometimes they guess wrong because they did not realize the families would consume the same amount of time whether they boarded first or last. By really hustling themselves if they board first, business travelers can reduce although not eliminate the chance that families with small childeren will preboard ahead of them on future flights.

>>> place lap child on floor between your legs

In case of a sudden deceleration a child held on your lap, if not sent flying, would be crushed between your chest and your legs.

 

[DMRick]

BTW--I've NEVER seen truly disabled passengers denied preboarding--wheelchairs, blind, etc., but I have seen people who were elderly and that was their only "disability" denied.

We were boarding when a person and his wife who had no apparent disabilities (which doesn't mean they had none) were in the preboard line. The man in front of me said something to the SW person getting ready to collect tickets, and he said that they are not by law allowed to ask anything about the disability..that anyone who says they must preboard because of a disability, must be allowed to. I found that interesting. Is this not true?

 

[goofy4tink]

>>> If they don't have another family member eventually arriving then someone else may have to take that middle seat.

Yep, that's exactly what happened...they had to move to the middle seat and the 'stranger' got that aisle seat!!



>>>Even if you were at the end of the C line your child seat has to go somewhere and the people in the row you choose to put the child seat will move rather than (1) have the child seat between them and the aisle and/or (2) have you reach across them possibly from a standing position in the aisle to put the bottle in the child's mouth.<<

My dd is 12, so doesn't need a bottle, , but has to fly in the window seat or she gets claustrophobic. So, we don't really mind being in the back, I was just trying to give an idea of how many were trying to save that middle seat.

>>> The purpose of preboarding is ...

... to enable the plane to board more quickly and take off sooner. The gate agents appraise the situation and guess whether the goal will be achieved by including families with small children in the preboard line. Sometimes they guess wrong because they did not realize the families would consume the same amount of time whether they boarded first or last. By really hustling themselves if they board first, business travelers can reduce although not eliminate the chance that families with small childeren will preboard ahead of them on future flights.

So very true. I think the fastest boarding and take-off I've ever had was on a PanAM flight right after 9-11. No carry-on at all was allowed. It was amazing how fast a plane can board if there are no bags to deal with. People just get on, sit down, and off you go!!!

 

[NotUrsula]

Just FYI: the recommended "brace position" for lap babies has recently been changed. As of 2003, it is no longer recommended that infants be placed on the floor in preparation for a hard landing. Here is the link to the FAA announcement:
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulator...a7a7247f986256d7a00508ba7/$FILE/AC121-24C.pdf

The pertinent statement is:
f. Children which are occupying approved child restraint devices should be braced in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions. Children in passenger seats should utilize the same brace position as adults. Adults holding infants should provide as uniform support as possible to the infant's head, neck, and body, and lean over the infant to minimize the possibility of injury due to flailing.

The FAA announcement doesn't have illustrations, but the announcement from the Canadian Aviation Authority on the same topic does; so I'll link that here anyway, just for clarity, as the recommendation is essentially the same:http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/commerce/circulars/AC0155_att.htm

 

[ducklite]

duplicate

 

[ducklite]

Just FYI: the recommended "brace position" for lap babies has recently been changed. As of 2003, it is no longer recommended that infants be placed on the floor in preparation for a hard landing. Here is the link to the FAA announcement:
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulator...a7a7247f986256d7a00508ba7/$FILE/AC121-24C.pdf

The pertinent statement is:
f. Children which are occupying approved child restraint devices should be braced in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions. Children in passenger seats should utilize the same brace position as adults. Adults holding infants should provide as uniform support as possible to the infant's head, neck, and body, and lean over the infant to minimize the possibility of injury due to flailing.

The FAA announcement doesn't have illustrations, but the announcement from the Canadian Aviation Authority on the same topic does; so I'll link that here anyway, just for clarity, as the recommendation is essentially the same:http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/commerce/circulars/AC0155_att.htm

In all honesty, either way the kid becomes a projectile going 400+ mph through the cabin. And nevermind the cash of a crash landing--sudden severe in air turbulence will leave the kid with head trauma as he smacks off the ceiling.

But whatever, go ahead and carry your kid on your lap. Just don't turn around and try to sue the airline over your choice if something happens...

Anne

 

[NotUrsula]

Um, Anne, I was just updating the discussion on the brace position -- I didn't endorse the practice of flying under-2's as lap-babies. I said that the position has changed, but I didn't make any comments one way or the other as to whether or not it was any safer.

The fact is that I'm rather a militant proponent of carseat use on board aircraft. Remember, I'm the woman who always has the latest version of 14CFR121.311 taped to the back of the carseat!

 

[ducklite]

Um, Anne, I was just updating the discussion on the brace position -- I didn't endorse the practice of flying under-2's as lap-babies. I said that the position has changed, but I didn't make any comments one way or the other as to whether or not it was any safer.

The fact is that I'm rather a militant proponent of carseat use on board aircraft. Remember, I'm the woman who always has the latest version of 14CFR121.311 taped to the back of the carseat!

Oh! I know, I'm sorry, I was being rhetorical in my use of "you" and Yours." You and I have always been on the same page on that discussion.

Anne

 

[Goobergal99]

I never encountered a problem trying to preboard and my DD will be 7 (was 5 and 6 on the our last two trips) I am sorry but 7 is different now then it used to be, she is still so innocent, there is no way we are getting on the plane and taking the chance of one of us not being seated with her. If we have an "A" ticket then fine but anything else and me or DH are preboarding. Of course we luck out because our DD is really small for her age

I will say that on her first trip, DH was in the pre boarding line with DD and the FA was really sweet, she told DH that I could get on and pre board with them but I didn't because my mom was with us. It was all good anyway, mom and I ended up in the back and were the only ones on the plane that had an empty seat in our row, so we spread out

 

[NotUrsula]

If we have an "A" ticket then fine but anything else and me or DH are preboarding. Of course we luck out because our DD is really small for her age

Oh, I strongly advise NOT trying to get away with preboarding an overage child (youngest or only, that is, not the older sibling of a preschooler). SWA staff are chatty for a reason, and they will almost always ask a child's age. When a small-for-her-age child pipes up with "7", back to the end of the B or C line you will go, unless you are claiming that one of the party is disabled.

 

[CarolA]

Can someone settle a dispute that I am having with DSis about lap babies? She claims that if the plane is in an emergency situation where passengers have to assume the crash position the lap baby must be put UNDER the seat in front of you? Also she claims that since every seat has one oxygen mask that there will be none for the baby (or parent), same thing with floatation device. We don't have kids but she says this is why she always purchased tickets when her children were infants. BTW, she is a true drama queen.

TIA

She is correct on ione point. If you assume the crash position the child is put on the FLOOR between your legs. Good luck holding onto said child. In the Souix Falls crash years ago the children became human bullets speeding thur the plane.

Each row has one extra O2 mask. So there can only be one lap child in each rwo...