Anyone extending their OKW contract?

[utahkennedys]

I happily sent my postcard in yesterday to extend. A small $1/year for extra years seems so reasonable to me, and in 50 years I will be 83 and hopefully either still going myself or watching my kids and grandkids go and have fun (we have longevity genes in our family, one g'ma lived until 106, another until 99!). Anyhow, I think it's a bargain! When we bought resale at OKW, Disney was selling SSR. I toured SSR and didn't like it, but the 15 years was tempting...I still went with my guts and bought where I knew we'd be happy to own and stay...so now I am thrilled that for a small cost I now get the extra 15 years! I also don't understand why people are so upset since Disney isn't forcing anything on anyone. And, if the only reason people bought was to sell down the road, that doesn't make much sense to me either as DVC clearly isn't a "financial" investment. I do think that those contracts without the extension will be a weak resale value compared to those with the investment, but I suppose time will really tell that in a few decades!

 

[salmoneous]

I also don't understand why people are so upset since Disney isn't forcing anything on anyone.

That's just the point. Disney is forcing those folks it cannot contact to buy the extension, and is (probably) forcing those folks how don't want the extension to pay maintenance costs for the years they don't want. Had Disney structured the deal in a way that didn't force anything one anyone, people wouldn't have complained.

Note - I'm truly happy for you. You wanted the extension and got it. I just wish Disney had found a way to structure the deal so nobody gets anything forced on them they don't want. Or, at a minimum, had Disney done a better job of informing forks about all aspects of the deal.

 

[rsinj]

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[rsinj]

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[georgeat]

That's just the point. Disney is forcing those folks it cannot contact to buy the extension, and is (probably) forcing those folks how don't want the extension to pay maintenance costs for the years they don't want. Had Disney structured the deal in a way that didn't force anything one anyone, people wouldn't have complained.

Note - I'm truly happy for you. You wanted the extension and got it. I just wish Disney had found a way to structure the deal so nobody gets anything forced on them they don't want. Or, at a minimum, had Disney done a better job of informing forks about all aspects of the deal.

You always have a choice. Just say NO and sell if you do not like what is going on.

 

[LIFERBABE]

The word LIEN doesn't change anything as far as your contract goes. It doesn't change the terms of it one bit.

I apologze if you interpreted my post as condescending, it wasn't meant to be. I was merely pointing out that if you want your ownership to terminate in 2042 as your contract indicates, there is nothing to be upset about. It doesn't matter what the Q&A says, it doesn't matter that they will put a lien on your ownership for the years past 2042 - it has no effect on you or your ownership whatsoever. If you'd like to believe that there is a major problem here, and like others create scenarios and "what ifs" to turn it into a bigger issue than it really is, you are welcome to go right along and do so.

You've said no, you have the same contract as you did before, there's nothing to be upset about - you are getting exactly what you purchased.

Nevermind...............

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

FWIW Liferbabe -- I'm with you on this one!!!

Is there anything we can do as a group to address the issue of the reserves?

 

[Debbie H]

FWIW Liferbabe -- I'm with you on this one!!!

Is there anything we can do as a group to address the issue of the reserves?

These questions need to be answered. I'm with DVC92 on this.

I wonder how the contracts were written from 92 to current ones that are written. If I knew someone that bought at OKW from DVD recently, I'd look it up on :http://officialrecords.occompt.com/wb_or1/or_sch_1.asp

You can look up all the records there.

 

[okwmike]

The question of reserves for an extended 15 year period is major. Any value being added by reserves beyond 2042 could raise a lot of eyebrows. Disney has a continued money making opportunity to manage "X" amount of dollars for two different contracts. In the past OKW has had a low maintenance cost. Recent costs have been high in my estimation with no explanation. Disney corporate simply has to just charge more to the resort for management and administration.
While these costs appear to be reasonable they are high. OKW pays millions for bus transportation just for OKW. I buy a park ticket and pay a transportation fee for WDW transportation. The point is no one really knows what is being priced fairly or accurately.

I did not see a detailed account of how they came up with $25 and $15 price point. Why not? Was it based on tolerated value or perceived value? DVC has raised the new buy in price with the 15 year extension only a few dollars. In my opinion the extension price should have been $10 now with a $15 price after six months. $25 seems like a forced issue ultimatium.

What will be the value per point after Feb 08?

 

[JimC]

The question of reserves for an extended 15 year period is major. Any value being added by reserves beyond 2042 could raise a lot of eyebrows. Disney has a continued money making opportunity to manage "X" amount of dollars for two different contracts. In the past OKW has had a low maintenance cost. Recent costs have been high in my estimation with no explanation. Disney corporate simply has to just charge more to the resort for management and administration.
While these costs appear to be reasonable they are high. OKW pays millions for bus transportation just for OKW. I buy a park ticket and pay a transportation fee for WDW transportation. The point is no one really knows what is being priced fairly or accurately.

Costs for labor (wages and benefits), taxes, insurance and utilities have gone up considerably and as the oldest resort I expect that there are more maintenance items to cover at OKW compared to SSR next door.

You are correct that while members have certain protections under our contracts and under Florida timeshare laws, we mostly have to trust Disney.

I did not see a detailed account of how they came up with $25 and $15 price point. Why not? Was it based on tolerated value or perceived value? DVC has raised the new buy in price with the 15 year extension only a few dollars. In my opinion the extension price should have been $10 now with a $15 price after six months. $25 seems like a forced issue ultimatium.

What will be the value per point after Feb 08?

Not sure they need to account to anyone for the price. They price it based on what they believe the market will pay. If they are wrong then it was too high. Once they announced the extended ground lease the $15/$25 did not surprise me.

You last question I gather is for resale value? If so, then that is the correct question. And we all can only guess at the answer. Because that is the variable that decides the question to extend or not for us.

 

[DVC92]

These questions need to be answered. I'm with DVC92 on this.

I wonder how the contracts were written from 92 to current ones that are written. If I knew someone that bought at OKW from DVD recently, I'd look it up on :http://officialrecords.occompt.com/wb_or1/or_sch_1.asp

You can look up all the records there.

With respect to newer contracts:

1992 - "The term...will continue until January 31, 2042, which is the expiration date of the Ground Lease or unless the Ground Lease is sooner terminated...."

Newer contracts - "The term...will continue until January 31, 2042, which is the expiration date of the Ground Lease or unless the Ground Lease is sooner terminated or the Ground Lease and the Condominium are extended in accordance with the Condominium Documents."

Warning: Please don't send back your decision until DVC provides us with copies of the actual documents we will be required to sign. Disney wants us to make a decision, whether yes or no, without providing us with the details. We are entitled to view all documents we will be required to sign before making such a decision. Call your sales rep or write to Jim Lewis and request the information.

 

[PBader]

We haven't decided what we will do yet. I am leaning towards extending just for the simple fact that I would like to have the majority of my points for the same term as my our SSR contract. We also own VB, but don't think I would extend that smaller contract if the same deal were offered.

 

[Debbie H]

With respect to newer contracts:

1992 - "The term...will continue until January 31, 2042, which is the expiration date of the Ground Lease or unless the Ground Lease is sooner terminated...."

Newer contracts - "The term...will continue until January 31, 2042, which is the expiration date of the Ground Lease or unless the Ground Lease is sooner terminated or the Ground Lease and the Condominium are extended in accordance with the Condominium Documents."

Warning: Please don't send back your decision until DVC provides us with copies of the actual documents we will be required to sign. Disney wants us to make a decision, whether yes or no, without providing us with the details. We are entitled to view all documents we will be required to sign before making such a decision. Call your sales rep or write to Jim Lewis and request the information.

So you are saying the contract wording is different?

 

[DVC92]

So you are saying the contract wording is different?

Yes, absolutely!

 

[rbuzzotta]

I haven't read all the posts but my 2 contracts are paid in full right now. My oldest does not care for Disney anymore (but that may change once she gets married and has a family) and my other 2 still love it.

We wonder if we should just extend and leave the contracts to the girls (2 contracts/3 girls............another dilemna) and let them enjoy it with their famiies.............should we add on the extension and sell our contracts or just one???? Or just remain as is...........only maintenance fees!!

Lots of decisions....................and a difference of $4,000 if we decide after the deadline!!! I can't look that far into the future, especially when I highly doubt I will be around!! LOL!!

 

[JimC]

With respect to newer contracts:

1992 - "The term...will continue until January 31, 2042, which is the expiration date of the Ground Lease or unless the Ground Lease is sooner terminated...."

Newer contracts - "The term...will continue until January 31, 2042, which is the expiration date of the Ground Lease or unless the Ground Lease is sooner terminated or the Ground Lease and the Condominium are extended in accordance with the Condominium Documents."....

But the difference you present is that the older contracts are silent on the issue of extension. So the question is -- does silence in a contract on extending the termination date in a deeded RTU timeshare mean DVC can not do it? That probably depends on other provisions of our contracts as well as Florida's real estate and timeshare statutes.

 

[DVC92]

But the difference you present is that the older contracts are silent on the issue of extension. So the question is -- does silence in a contract on extending the termination date in a deeded RTU timeshare mean DVC can not do it? That probably depends on other provisions of our contracts as well as Florida's real estate and timeshare statutes.

If contract law is about anything, it is about a meeting of the minds. Terms not in a contract can't be inserted by one party. Our contracts specifically state that they can't be amended or modified unless agreed to in writing by both parties. Clearly, Disney's insertion of the extension language in later contracts evidences that they felt a definite need for it, but even that language doesn't constitute a meeting of the minds.

Also, the Florida Timeshare Statutes clearly state that the contract must state the specific number of years constituting the term of the timeshare plan. Disney is simply trying to employ some creative methods to circumvent the termination date.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Interesting indeed! Looks like we need to learn "the rest of the story".

 

[dianeschlicht]

Looks to me like the second one has them covered though.

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

Lots of decisions....................and a difference of $4,000 if we decide after the deadline!!! I can't look that far into the future, especially when I highly doubt I will be around!! LOL!!

My biggest issue is what will OKW be like in 2042 (let alone 2057). If DVC keeps adding bigger and better resorts, plus more locations outside WDW...will anyone want to stay @ OKW anymore? Not only do I plan on declining the extension, I doubt I will even keep the membership until 2042. At this point I am leaning towards selling one of my OKW contracts and reinvesting in whatever the newest DVC resort is.