Anyone extending their OKW contract?

[CarolMN]

I wonder what would happen if someone returns the postcard with both options checked and a note saying "I don't know yet. Please send me the paperwork / relevant information for both options"?

 

[rsinj]

.

 

[RobDoc]

This particular path of the conversation came about when a poster suggested that Disney isn't forcing anything on anybody. That statement might not be true. I felt it worth pointing that out. Do you think I shouldn't have?

People have suggested that everyone will respond to the notice. I think that is incorrect, and am positive Disney won't get a 100% response. Should I have said nothing?

While Disney hasn't told us how they will enforce the assessments, they have structured this deal as an assessment, not an offer. I didn't bring the word assessment into the conversation, Disney did. Disney could put some mechanism in place to avoid huring those people who don't respond. But, so far, they haven't mentioned any such mechanism. They have talked about liens. Again, I didn't bring the word lien into the coversation, Disney did.

The point of my comments is to point out one of the resons I'm concerned about the way the deal is structured? How do you think I should have expressed that concern?

The only thing I am challenging is your assertion that "Disney has told us those people will be assessed the amount of the purchase." when Disney has done no such thing unless you have some correspondence not in evidence to others.

If you want to raise questions about issues not yet explained and make untrue assertions go right ahead. I will still choose to wait until I have all of the facts from DVC before making accusations.

I have already made my decision not to accept the extension simply based on our own ability to use the additional 15 years and our refusal to transfer any financial responsibility to anyone else in our family - especially when that expense would likely be born by our grandchildren - who will be in their 40's at that time.

As for the term "lien", it does not appear in the letter and information I received today. It did appear in the notice of the "special" meeting, but it's implementation (if any) has not been explained.

Again, unless you have some special correspondence or insight, I find it counterproductive to state that anyone's ability to use their membership will be affected by an assessment because they have not responded to the extension documents. Unless/until we have contrary information, I will continue to wait until DVC either explains what will happen if they do not receive notice of intent from a member or takes action regarding the lack of notice.

I do agree that it's unlikely - for a variety of reasons - DVC will get 100% response immediately from this initial mailing, but I do expect that there will be follow up mass mailings, phone calls and/or return receipt mailings utilized before any action is taken against any OKW owner.

 

[jekjones1558]

Diane,
I still have not received the mailing as of Oct. 1 (MN).

 

[salmoneous]

The only thing I am challenging is your assertion that "Disney has told us those people will be assessed the amount of the purchase." when Disney has done no such thing unless you have some correspondence not in evidence to others.

Perhaps the first place we were told this was being done as an assessment was in the letter and notice of Special Meetings. For a good post on that correspondence, see:

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=20516412&postcount=13

If you want to raise questions about issues not yet explained and make untrue assertions go right ahead.

Other than claiming this is being done as an assessment (which I still think is pretty darn true) are there any other untruths you are accusing me of?

Again, unless you have some special correspondence or insight, I find it counterproductive to state that anyone's ability to use their membership will be affected by an assessment because they have not responded to the extension documents.

I haven't said any such thing, have I?

Now, another poster said they asked Jim Lewis about this directly at the meeting (see the podcast thread) and it sure sounded like they might do something like that. But I've never even hinted at such a thing.

 

[RobDoc]

Perhaps the first place we were told this was being done as an assessment was in the letter and notice of Special Meetings.

There was NO suggestion in either the original meeting notice or the followup letter that those who fail to respond will be faced with any cost for an assessment. Again, have you received any information to the contrary?

Other than claiming this is being done as an assessment (which I still think is pretty darn true) are there any other untruths you are accusing me of?

DVC has certainly called this an assessment - in both the original meeting notice and also in the more recent letter. What they have not stated is anything about what will happen to those owners who fail to respond. Again, you have stated " I believe there are members who will not respond. Disney has told us those people will be assessed the amount of the purchase " and I still challenge that statement since I have received nothing from DVC stating that. If you have received information to support your statement, please provide a quote. I have not accused anyone of anything including you - I'm just asking for documentation for the statements presented as fact before I'm willing to accept them as fact.

I haven't said any such thing, have I?

"I believe there are members who will not respond. Disney has told us those people will be assessed the amount of the purchase." It appears that way to me.

What was stated in the letters you received?

 

[karrit2000]

Getting back to the original point of this post, I will not be buying into the extra 15 years. The conditions of the Villas I was assigned my last few trips to OKW were abominable. If this is how they look after 15 years after supposedly having been recently renovated I can't imagine I would have any desire to stay in them 10 years from now nevermind 25 or 30. I will use the $3300-$5500 they are "assessing" me to purchase GCV or whatever newer better DVC comes along.

 

[salmoneous]

There was NO suggestion in either the original meeting notice or the followup letter that those who fail to respond will be faced with any cost for an assessment.

And there has been no suggestion in any of my posts that they will be faced with any cost of an assessment. Merely that they will be assessed.

DVC has certainly called this an assessment - in both the original meeting notice and also in the more recent letter. What they have not stated is anything about what will happen to those owners who fail to respond. Again, you have stated " I believe there are members who will not respond. Disney has told us those people will be assessed the amount of the purchase " and I still challenge that statement since I have received nothing from DVC stating that.

Doc - I don't want to be arguing with you. But you statements truly baffle me. You agree that this is an assessment. But then 5 seconds latter you challenge my statement that people will be assessed. I don't get it.

I have not accused anyone of anything including you - I'm just asking for documentation for the statements presented as fact before I'm willing to accept them as fact.

Ten seconds ago you admit that Disney sent out both a meeting notice as well as a recent letter documenting that this is an assessment. You seemed to accept is as fact. But then you turn around and say you won't accept my statement (that people will be assessed) without documentation. As I said, I'm totally baffled.

"I believe there are members who will not respond. Disney has told us those people will be assessed the amount of the purchase." It appears that way to me.

Huh??? Let's back up a second since the full exchange isn't quoted. You think that my statement about people being assessed backs up your claim that I "state(ed) that anyone's ability to use their membership will be affected by an assessment"

Let me be perfectly clear. When I say people will be assessed, that's exactly what I mean. They...Will...Be...Assessed. Be Assessed - i.e. receive an assessment from Disney. Period. In particular, note that Be Assessed does not mean that their ability to use their membership will be affected by an assessment, merely that they will have an assessment. I haven't said boo about what I think that assessment will mean or the consequences of it. Just that it will exist.

Look, I don't mean to be a pain or argumentative. But I feel you have repeatedly challenged me to defend things I haven't said, suggested I was being counterproductive for things I didn't say, and questioned the truthfulness of things I didn't say.

 

[CarolAnnC]

And we got ours today in Illinois.

I am in Illinois, but I have not received anything yet...

 

[TinkTatoo]

We're in Ireland and got ours yesterday.

 

[DVC92]

I called my Vacation Club Guide and requested both sets of papers to consider, yes and no options, before I return my postcard. They will be provided when available.

As to the issue of whether we have been assessed or not, the Notice of the Special Meeting of the Board clearly stated that we have and the "collection of this assessment shall be governed in all respects by the Association's process for collection of annual assessments. The special assessment shall be a personal obligation of each Member and the Association shall have a lien on each Member's Ownership Interest to secure payment of the special assessment." If an owner does not fulfill the obligation, our documents dictate the ensuing actions following non-payment of assessments. Please reference Declaration of Condominium, Article VIII, section 8.2, and the Condominium Rules & Regulations, section 28, which incorporates Florida Statutes, section 721.13(6).

In brief, they can suspend your banking, borrowing, and usage; charge late fee, interest, attorney's fees; and foreclose.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Diane,
I still have not received the mailing as of Oct. 1 (MN).

Hmmm. I would think you are ahead of us in the alphabet too!

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I called my Vacation Club Guide and requested both sets of papers to consider, yes and no options, before I return my postcard. They will be provided when available.

As to the issue of whether we have been assessed or not, the Notice of the Special Meeting of the Board clearly stated that we have and the "collection of this assessment shall be governed in all respects by the Association's process for collection of annual assessments. The special assessment shall be a personal obligation of each Member and the Association shall have a lien on each Member's Ownership Interest to secure payment of the special assessment." If an owner does not fulfill the obligation, our documents dictate the ensuing actions following non-payment of assessments. Please reference Declaration of Condominium, Article VIII, section 8.2, and the Condominium Rules & Regulations, section 28, which incorporates Florida Statutes, section 721.13(6).

In brief, they can suspend your banking, borrowing, and usage; charge late fee, interest, attorney's fees; and foreclose.

Wow, your statement clarifies the discussion of whether Disney would or could affect one's current membership activities. I sure hope other's read this, so as not to get too complacent and make a decision one way or another.

 

[tinaj]

Can I ask how many extra years you get for the $15? Just wondering if they may offer this at other resorts in the future.

 

[RobDoc]

I called my Vacation Club Guide and requested both sets of papers to consider, yes and no options, before I return my postcard. They will be provided when available.

As to the issue of whether we have been assessed or not, the Notice of the Special Meeting of the Board clearly stated that we have and the "collection of this assessment shall be governed in all respects by the Association's process for collection of annual assessments. The special assessment shall be a personal obligation of each Member and the Association shall have a lien on each Member's Ownership Interest to secure payment of the special assessment." If an owner does not fulfill the obligation, our documents dictate the ensuing actions following non-payment of assessments. Please reference Declaration of Condominium, Article VIII, section 8.2, and the Condominium Rules & Regulations, section 28, which incorporates Florida Statutes, section 721.13(6).

In brief, they can suspend your banking, borrowing, and usage; charge late fee, interest, attorney's fees; and foreclose.

In the portion of the resolution quoted above another sentence was omitted from the quote. It goes on to state: "The Association shall promptly mail special assessment notices to each Member and the special assessments shall be due and payable on or before February 29, 2008." Another resolution in that same letter stated that the cost per point would be $25 per point.

As with many aspects of DVC the stated policies in our documents are often not followed to the letter by DVC itself. Consider that occupancy levels, banking, borrowing, transfers and many, many other components of our documents have had multiple changes and numerous ways of being enforced.

In this case, while the notice of the special meeting and specifically the resolution quoted here state that the assessment is due and payable on or before February 29, 2008, the subsequent notice sent out after the meeting states: "For those Members who elect to accept the extension, DVD will pay $10 per Vacation Point towards each Member's special assessment if paid in full by February 29, 2008. Members remitting payment after February 29, 2008, will not be eligible for a DVD subsidy and shall be required to pay the full amount of the special assessment of $25 per Vacation Point." Thus the resolved $25 per point cost is now reduced by $10 per point and Members can also send payment after the February 29, 2008 date -effectively extending the conditions stated in the resolution last week. No other deadline is mentioned in the notification letter - suggesting, at least to me, that no one will have a lien placed against their account on March 1, 2008 even though that date is beyond the term of the passed resolution. The only action noted in the notice sent after the meeting is that those members who remit payment after February 29, 2008 will not get the $10 subsidy. There was no mention or threat of any lien in the subsequent notice.

Could DVD place a lien on those members who fail to respond by February 29, 2008? - Technically, I suspect so but also would anticipate that DVD would need to be prepared to prove that an owner had received notice of the assessment prior to taking any action to limit their ability to use their membership (banking, borrowing, and usage) or to charge late fee, interest, attorney's fees or foreclose.

Which aspects of the resolutions recently passed will likely be enforced and which will be modified are not clear to me at this time and we've already had conflicting information from DVC itself about how this process will play out. I'm sure we'll all have more questions as the extension documents are sent for our consideration.

 

[DVC92]

As with many aspects of DVC the stated policies in our documents are often not followed to the letter by DVC itself.

You nailed it. This is the root of the problem and the basis of this discussion. IMO DVC is just making it up as they go along to their financial advantage and trivializing our contracts and ensuing documents. They are behaving like they are bureaucratic omnipotents. Asking for a yes or no consent to the extension without full disclosure of the documents we will be required to execute is ridiculous!

 

[tinaj]

Can I ask how many extra years you get for the $15? Just wondering if they may offer this at other resorts in the future.

 

[JimC]

Can I ask how many extra years you get for the $15? Just wondering if they may offer this at other resorts in the future.

15 years. Current contract expires 1/31/2042. The extension takes you to 1/31/2057.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

In the portion of the resolution quoted above another sentence was omitted from the quote. It goes on to state: "The Association shall promptly mail special assessment notices to each Member and the special assessments shall be due and payable on or before February 29, 2008." Another resolution in that same letter stated that the cost per point would be $25 per point.

As with many aspects of DVC the stated policies in our documents are often not followed to the letter by DVC itself. Consider that occupancy levels, banking, borrowing, transfers and many, many other components of our documents have had multiple changes and numerous ways of being enforced.

In this case, while the notice of the special meeting and specifically the resolution quoted here state that the assessment is due and payable on or before February 29, 2008, the subsequent notice sent out after the meeting states: "For those Members who elect to accept the extension, DVD will pay $10 per Vacation Point towards each Member's special assessment if paid in full by February 29, 2008. Members remitting payment after February 29, 2008, will not be eligible for a DVD subsidy and shall be required to pay the full amount of the special assessment of $25 per Vacation Point." Thus the resolved $25 per point cost is now reduced by $10 per point and Members can also send payment after the February 29, 2008 date -effectively extending the conditions stated in the resolution last week. No other deadline is mentioned in the notification letter - suggesting, at least to me, that no one will have a lien placed against their account on March 1, 2008 even though that date is beyond the term of the passed resolution. The only action noted in the notice sent after the meeting is that those members who remit payment after February 29, 2008 will not get the $10 subsidy. There was no mention or threat of any lien in the subsequent notice.

Could DVD place a lien on those members who fail to respond by February 29, 2008? - Technically, I suspect so but also would anticipate that DVD would need to be prepared to prove that an owner had received notice of the assessment prior to taking any action to limit their ability to use their membership (banking, borrowing, and usage) or to charge late fee, interest, attorney's fees or foreclose.

Which aspects of the resolutions recently passed will likely be enforced and which will be modified are not clear to me at this time and we've already had conflicting information from DVC itself about how this process will play out. I'm sure we'll all have more questions as the extension documents are sent for our consideration.

Well your points are well taken, however I would not want to test the waters. They have the terms in writing, and whether or not they choose to enforce any or all of it is within their rights. I feel the burden of proof will fall on the owner as to when they were notified, what paperwork was recieved, etc. Those that do test the waters should be prepared with a lot of documentation.

 

[RobDoc]

Well your points are well taken, however I would not want to test the waters. They have the terms in writing, and whether or not they choose to enforce any or all of it is within their rights. I feel the burden of proof will fall on the owner as to when they were notified, what paperwork was recieved, etc. Those that do test the waters should be prepared with a lot of documentation.

Actually, the DVC documents place full responsibility on DVC to enforce their own rules.

As for a member proving that a member recieved a letter, I don't know how to prove you did or did not receive something. The burden of proof would be on the sender. I know that is my responsibility when I send my 1040 to the IRS each year. It is sent by certified mail, return receipt so I have proof my return was filed in a timely fashion. Are you suggesting that if the IRS doesn't receive a tax return the taxpayer can demand that they (the IRS) needs to prove they didn't receive it?

Sorry, but I don't believe that "the check is in the mail" is up to the recipient to prove if it doesn't arrive - it's up to the sender to prove it's actually in the mail and the same goes for any documents that would affect an owner's right to use his or her property.