Anyone else notice the Electric Wheelchair abuse at WDW?

[Mermaid02]

JoannaOhio.... you are my new best friend!!

 

[SueM in MN]

Last month at MK, we saw a dad in an ECV. His teenage son was behind him in a push wheelchair, with his feet hooked through the back of the dad's ECV. In effect, the dad was towing the son through the park. If neither had a disability, I would certainly categorize their use of ECV and wheelchair as abuse. Even if both had a legitimate reason for their chairs, I still have major issues with them touring the parks in this manner because of the potential for injury. DH is a podiatrist, and all I could picture was some sort of accident resulting in multiple foot fractures for the son. So whether guilty of abusing the system or guilty of using poor judgement, those two were certainly guilty of something!

There are 2 types of potential abuse that I can see:
* Abuse of need (for want of a better name). This definition is pretty clear cut = using something you don't need, but in actual practice, it's very hard to tell whether or not someone has a need (and possibly the only person who really knows is the person using it).
* Abuse of equipment. This is pretty clear cut in both definition and real life. If the manufacturer of the equipment would advise you not to do it or the activity could cause damage to people or property, it's abuse.

The poster above separated out the types of abuse, but I've seen posts in the past where people assumed because equipment abuse was occurring that meant that abuse of need was also occuring. People sometimes abuse their own equipment, (which makes no sense, since they will have to pay for repair, but it happens) so abuse of equipment does not equal abuse of need.

The situation above would certainly be abuse of equipment. Those people were using the wheelchair and ecv in a way that had potential to hurt themselves and others.
If they didn't need the equipment, it's not likely that they would rent it ($30 a day for the ecv and $8 for the wheelchair, plus deposits and a hold on a credit card). So why would they do something like that?
My best guess is that both the father and the son needed wheelchairs or ecvs, but neither could propel themselves, or maybe the son could, but got tired. (It's not easy to propel yourself in a wheelchair; my DD can do it in the house, but not for distances over 100 feet). It could be that the son was too young to rent an ecv (you have to be at least 18 years old to drive one from the parks or most of the outside rental places). It may be that 2 evcs were too much money. For whatever reason, they ended up with one wheelchair and one ecv and chose an unwise way to use them.

 

[Talking Hands]

I think some of the abuse occurs when the disabled person allows other people (not disabled) in their party to "play" with the wheelchair. I saw a lot of that happening when I was at Disney last week.

I doubt that they allow members oif their party play with their power wheelchairs. I can tell you no one plays with my chair. NO ONE! I do have my husband move it when I watch the parade at MGM because where I sit (on the steps of the ABC Theater) is not set up to have wheelchairs there. I sit there because I also need interpreting since I am hard of hearing. So if you see this 60 yo slowly driving a purple chair, it may be my husband moving it for me.

 

[Laurajean1014]

Why do you all care so much?

It's quite troubling -

 

[JoannaOhio]

JoannaOhio.... you are my new best friend!!

Thanks for the compliment!

 

[Talking Hands]

OMG...don't get me started on this one. I've already had to defend myself from someone getting mad at my comment over this BS. I realize some people really need those things, but, for the most part, this situation only demonstrates how freaking lazy and overweight our society has gotten. I'm going to find a handheld device that sends a massive electrical shock to those things and then I'm going to zap every scooter abuser in the park with it. That'll force emm to get off their lazy arses and get a life. AGAIN, BEFORE I GET SCREAMED AT, I'm talking about the people that ABUSE the scooters...not the one's with legitimate use. I'm all for everyone having the same opportunity to enjoy themselves as someone fortunate enuff to be healthy like myself.

Read my SOLO trip report DAY 1 for my detailed experience with this annoyance. The link is shown in my sig. Crazy stuff!!!

Oh my. You are a medical doctor with access to this person records to be able to decide they are to lazy to walk. Your post is by far the nastiest post I have seen. I want to know how you are4 going to determine who is an abuser and who is not. Perhaps you are GOD.

 

[crazyj4488]

For those who don't feel like going to read the posters "detailed experience", I copied and pasted it here:

So this is the entirety of the "detailed experience", except a part earlier in the day where the poster had gone into Living Seas and turned right around and went out again because there was a line (there is no indication that line had anything to do with an ecv).

You didn't read below that...there is a ton more detail as to what was going on. Here is the snippet from the post.

WOAH....hold on a second here!!!

I can sympathize perfectly with people in less fortunate situations and I wasn't saying anything derogatory about people that have to use alternate means of getting around the park. My best friend of 20 years was hit by a car and has been a paraplegic since he was eight years old. I spent most of my young life lifting his paralyzed body from his wheelchair to my car seat so we could go out and do things together. It took a ton of effort to meet his needs but I never gave it a second thought. I was even happier than I could ever be traveling half way across this country in order to be in his wedding party this past May. Ya know where he went for his honeymoon? You guessed it! WDW.

Everyone on Earth, no matter their situation, should have the same right and opportunity to enjoy the parks as everyone else.

You just had to be there to realize what was going on. Most of the family was making a joke out of the situation...they were screwing around on purpose for their own amusement and at the expense of the people, like me, who were simply trying to enjoy themselves. This guy's wife was in the same exact motorized vehicle and she made it up the ramp just fine. She pulled ahead of her rude husband and sort of hid in the darkness at the top of the ramp just so she wouldn't be embarrassed by their antics. On my way thru the last section of the queue, I heard her apologize to the people behind me since there was an elderly woman in the group who, obviously, did not need to be standing any longer than necessary. She commented to them that he shouldn't even be riding in one of those carts becuase she knew just as I did that he was just goofing off. He looked to be in perfect health unlike your Father or my best friend who actually need to be using those types of vehicles.

I do agree that Disney could do something better with that queue area and that is a VERY good point you made. I even think you should write a letter to guest relations if you feel that strongly about it. I've communicated with guest relations over many issues and they are shockingly prompt in their correspondence.

Do you really think I would be spending all this time and effort sharing my experiences with you all in order to be insensitive and make fun of people who are physically less fortunate???? Come on. We are all smarter than that.

I'll try to be more clear and concise with my descriptions of the ignorant people we all come across when visiting the parks. I wouldn't want things to be misconstrued like this again.

 

[crazyj4488]

Oh my. You are a medical doctor with access to this person records to be able to decide they are to lazy to walk. Your post is by far the nastiest post I have seen. I want to know how you are4 going to determine who is an abuser and who is not. Perhaps you are GOD.

You people are completely overacting. My lord. For the fourtieth time people. There is nothing worng with using an ECV if you need it. I have complete sympathy for those people. If you are going to sit there and tell me that the people that abuse these things are just fine and dandy, then you are nuts and completely contradicting your defense of using the vehicle in the first place.

The abuse is BS...plain and simple. I'm not going to sugarcoat it and I have no problem with those people that have a legitimate use. I'm observant enough to tell when someone is jacking around and breaking the rules and these are the people that cause problems. I'm not GOD...I have eyes andears. And I'm not a nasty person by any stetch. You would know that if you knew me. People are having a hard time understanding the issue because you get all over emotional. Slow down and think logically about this.

Either way I guess this is a moot point.

We shall AGREE TO DISAGREE and I won't push the issue or defend myself any longer.

CHILL PEOPLE

 

[LindsayDunn228]

Crazy,

As someone who has been a paraplegic since age 6, I have to ask. What are you wanting, a medal?? You're coming across like racists who say, "I'm not racist. I have friends/coworkers that are black."

You can have a "paraplegic friend" and still be a turd about ECV users.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

So is everyone in agreement that you can get a scooter without a precription or doctor's note? What about someone who's feet may hurt, twisted an ankle at the park or might be overweight and just wants to ride and not walk everywhere? If they're riding in a socially acceptable way and not cutting people off, then is it O.K.? I go to the gym every morning at 5:30 am 5 days a week and run 3 miles 4 times a week. I have never ever looked at anyone, anywhere and thought to myself "Look at that lazy bum on the electric scooter!". For someone to think that way or worse wish to harm people, in jest or not, is totally sleazy. I like to exersize, some people don't or can't. It doesn't take a degree in rocket science to see that everyone has different interests, what important is not to make ridiculous snap judgements about people who's stories you have absolutely not idea about.

 

[JoannaOhio]

You didn't read below that...there is a ton more detail as to what was going on. Here is the snippet from the post.

WOAH....hold on a second here!!!

I can sympathize perfectly with people in less fortunate situations and I wasn't saying anything derogatory about people that have to use alternate means of getting around the park. My best friend of 20 years was hit by a car and has been a paraplegic since he was eight years old. I spent most of my young life lifting his paralyzed body from his wheelchair to my car seat so we could go out and do things together. It took a ton of effort to meet his needs but I never gave it a second thought. I was even happier than I could ever be traveling half way across this country in order to be in his wedding party this past May. Ya know where he went for his honeymoon? You guessed it! WDW.

Everyone on Earth, no matter their situation, should have the same right and opportunity to enjoy the parks as everyone else.

You just had to be there to realize what was going on. Most of the family was making a joke out of the situation...they were screwing around on purpose for their own amusement and at the expense of the people, like me, who were simply trying to enjoy themselves. This guy's wife was in the same exact motorized vehicle and she made it up the ramp just fine. She pulled ahead of her rude husband and sort of hid in the darkness at the top of the ramp just so she wouldn't be embarrassed by their antics. On my way thru the last section of the queue, I heard her apologize to the people behind me since there was an elderly woman in the group who, obviously, did not need to be standing any longer than necessary. She commented to them that he shouldn't even be riding in one of those carts becuase she knew just as I did that he was just goofing off. He looked to be in perfect health unlike your Father or my best friend who actually need to be using those types of vehicles.

I do agree that Disney could do something better with that queue area and that is a VERY good point you made. I even think you should write a letter to guest relations if you feel that strongly about it. I've communicated with guest relations over many issues and they are shockingly prompt in their correspondence.

Do you really think I would be spending all this time and effort sharing my experiences with you all in order to be insensitive and make fun of people who are physically less fortunate???? Come on. We are all smarter than that.

I'll try to be more clear and concise with my descriptions of the ignorant people we all come across when visiting the parks. I wouldn't want things to be misconstrued like this again.

Okay, I followed your invitation to, "Read my SOLO trip report DAY 1 for my detailed experience with this annoyance. The link is shown in my sig. Crazy stuff!!!"

I read every bit of your DAY 1 report, and most of Part 1 of Day 2, and I didn't see the above detail you've quoted about the guy "abusing" his use of the ECV (or the selfless assistance you gave to your paraplegic friend). If there was more to this story, I wish you would have posted it on the "DAY 1 report" that you referenced in your original post. I based my remarks on what I read from the post that you referred me to.

If I have misjudged you in any way, I apologize. At the same time, I hope you aren't around to misjudge me if you see me get out of my wheelchair to walk onto a ride. I am ambulatory for short distances, but couldn't possibly "do" Disney without the wheelchair.

 

[Talking Hands]

Crazyj4488
Your post about zapping abusers was very objectionable and nasty. You may have eyea and ears but you don't have knowlege of a persons situation. Maybe the guy was fooling around, I wasn't there but to say you will zap all you decide are abusers really makes me mad.
When people see me they don't see a person with disabilities at all. Most don't even realize I have a hearing loss. When I stand in church and interpret for the deaf most never realize I am in pain the entire time and take meds for it. My deaf friends do because they have seen me at my worst, when I have literally been unable to move from the wheelchair to a chair. When you see me walk down the halls at school you wouldn't know that the next moment I may land on my face. My students do. They've picked me up and gotten me back on my way. I look normal and I wish I was. I hate having to use a power chair but i do so for self preservation. Another break and I may lose my leg. I came close to it the last time. The docs were within minutes of amputating because they felt it would not heal. But they tried and through the many months of complete non-weightbearing it finally did heal. Btw it was a Disney CM that teased me out of the wheelchair at a professional convention we attended for the first time. Disney CM are magical even when not at Disney!
Oh and I do sometimes fool around in my wheelchair. I may run in circles but I usually do it where there aren't many people. Just sitting there gets boring at times.

 

[eeyore45]

Maybe we all just want to "fix it" make the world a better place?

It sounds so easy, someone that is abusing, and taking advantage of the situation.... it really has gotten me upset, because I'm led to believe that this occurs all to frequently at Disney, because of how Disney seems to be approaching those with needs - I'm still angry at how Talking Hands was treated by CM's and posted her frustration, was she treated this way because so many have taken advantage of Disney in the past that abused the system? And Also Taxi at Resorts posted quite a harrowing tale, many I think disbelieve that also... because so many post of all the pixie dust, and magic, and how they get 'free upgrades', its inconceviable that Disney ignores a need!!

The other side of this coin are those that have posted about not wanting to use an ECV, and yet clearly have need, due to posts like this, how they would be perceived. My favorite is Ray Sharpton's post on the Disability thread, first he posted about finally accepting and excited about the possibilities of renting an ECV, than his heartwarming post on what it was like to actually go to Disney, a whole new world was open to him as he had new access...

Then there was a mom who wanted to know how she could take her 10yr old for the first time, but she knows she cannot walk... I doubt she will use an ECV... I have a friend that has a seriouss back tumor, she is young, and is in so much pain, she wouldnt consider Disney, when I suggest an ECV, the horror of "what will people think - or I dont NEED a wheelchair"

and I know its out of context, that it wasnt meant about the zapper and the lazy *** but it really does seem ignorant on how that may affect people that read it... unintentionally.

 

[faeflora]

You are correct in what you said and I think Disney should make it A requirement for those in need of a EVC or Wheelchair have a Doctors percription note to get one. Doing this would absolutly curb this awful practice.Disney I hope you are reading this. All of you DIS go to Disney web site an send a complaint to them to make them aware of this. If enough of us complain directly to them they will do something. Voicing here lets out our vent but they need to be aware of this awful thing that is happing.

Although your intent is well meaning, having a doctors note to get an ECV or Wheelchair, since the HIPPA laws that have recently been passed to assist in protecting medical information, WDW could not request a person to bring a doctor's note to secure a chair.
I personally feel that I also would not want to explain my medical condition to just anyone, not to mention the complications that would arise since my specific medical condition is rare and very complicated.
I agree there is always a chance for abuse but I think Disney should continue the process of rental that they have at this time.

 

[SueM in MN]

You didn't read below that...there is a ton more detail as to what was going on. Here is the snippet from the post.

The post I was quoting from was # 100. Here's the entire text of that quote; there's nothing to read below it in that quote:

OMG...don't get me started on this one. I've already had to defend myself from someone getting mad at my comment over this BS. I realize some people really need those things, but, for the most part, this situation only demonstrates how freaking lazy and overweight our society has gotten. I'm going to find a handheld device that sends a massive electrical shock to those things and then I'm going to zap every scooter abuser in the park with it. That'll force emm to get off their lazy arses and get a life. AGAIN, BEFORE I GET SCREAMED AT, I'm talking about the people that ABUSE the scooters...not the one's with legitimate use. I'm all for everyone having the same opportunity to enjoy themselves as someone fortunate enuff to be healthy like myself.

Read my SOLO trip report DAY 1 for my detailed experience with this annoyance. The link is shown in my sig. Crazy stuff!!!
__________________
-J

May 23-27, 2005 SOLO Trip Reports!!
Day 1 - http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=833263
Day 2 - Part 1 http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=834801
Day 2 - PART 2 http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=836129

April 24-30, 2005 Trip Reports!!!
Day 1 - http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=811849
Day 2 - http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=812682
Day 3 - http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=814464
Day 4 - http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=815780
Day 5 - http://disboards.com/showthread.php...602#post8624602
Day 6 - http://disboards.com/showthread.php...665#post8640665
Day 7 - FINAL DAY with LINK TO HUNDREDS OF PICS http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=821502

Behold - Tokyo's DisneySea
http://disney.txtechvantage.com/dsea.jpg

Here's the quote I got from the trip report, plus the paragraph before and after it (lest I be accused of not reading far enough):

I really wanted to ride Mission Space more than once but I couldn’t. I was still feeling a bit off from the first ride. I had read in the unofficial guide to WDW that riding it on an empty stomach causes nausea as your blood sugar is low. I hadn’t eaten much at all and really didn’t feel the need to. Food would only slow me down anyways. Therefore, I made my way back over to The Living Seas pavilion in hopes of finally getting to tour it and the new attraction called Turtle Talk with Crush.

By this time, there was no line leading into The Living Seas. However, there was this idiot on one of those motorized carts running into every single turn in the queue area. Every time he would hit a wall; he would stop and back up and continue on. I just couldn’t understand what the heck was wrong with this guy. People behind me were laughing at him and I swear he was doing it on purpose because his wife was laughing too.

Shortly after the dude who was simply too lazy to walk his *** around the park held the entire line of people up trying to get into the pavilion, we were let into the pre-show theater. They gave people the choice of heading straight over to the “hydrolators” that lead into the main aquarium area but I chose to watch the movie as I had not been to The Living Seas in quite some time.

I always remembered the pre-show at The Seas to be quite dramatic as the narrator talked about the power of the ocean and how our world, basically, started with the oceans. Any show featuring the science behind the oceans is good in my book. The oceans are such a mysterious place and the pre-show was really getting me excited about touring the huge aquarium.

Link to complete trip report.

Added Note: I did find the posters "extra details" on page 3 of the responses to the trip report (I had read the whole trip report and page 1, 2 and part of 3 of the thread). The "extra details" are on page 3 in a response to someone in post 34 who thought the writer was quite insensitive in the original report. So, the details are not part of the report, but a response to a response. Here is a comparison of the 2 accounts of the situation side by side.

From the trip report: However, there was this idiot on one of those motorized carts running into every single turn in the queue area. Every time he would hit a wall; he would stop and back up and continue on. I just couldn’t understand what the heck was wrong with this guy. People behind me were laughing at him and I swear he was doing it on purpose because his wife was laughing too.

Shortly after the dude who was simply too lazy to walk his *** around the park held the entire line of people up trying to get into the pavilion, we were let into the pre-show theater.

From the response: Most of the family was making a joke out of the situation...they were screwing around on purpose for their own amusement and at the expense of the people, like me, who were simply trying to enjoy themselves. This guy's wife was in the same exact motorized vehicle and she made it up the ramp just fine. She pulled ahead of her rude husband and sort of hid in the darkness at the top of the ramp just so she wouldn't be embarrassed by their antics. On my way thru the last section of the queue, I heard her apologize to the people behind me since there was an elderly woman in the group who, obviously, did not need to be standing any longer than necessary. She commented to them that he shouldn't even be riding in one of those carts becuase she knew just as I did that he was just goofing off.

 

[faeflora]

I honestly hope you do not meet up with me in the parks because to look at me and the way my family interacts with me I am sure that you would think that I was abusing the system. I have been in a wheelchair since 1996, I was born with a rare and incurable genetic disability that has caused hearing loss, vision issues, constant and unstopable pain, joint disloactions that allow my right shoulder to rotate 360 degrees (this is not a joke) and I have an anxiety disorder. Yet, when I am out in public, I am happy, I zip around in my wheelchair and sometimes I get out of it to enjoy a seat on a bench next to my mother and heaven forbid when that chair is empty sometimes my husband sits in it and zips around because after all at a cool $7,000.00 (also not a joke) it is always the best seat in the house. You might also witness my husband twirling me in my chair since I actually dance on a regular basis with our college dance program. Of ocurse we make sure we have room. My mom loves to push me when she can just so she can hear her almost 40 yo daughter say "Oh...mom ". When I am in the hotel room I utilize some very cool crutches and sometimes when my body has just had enough I use a very cool equally zippy but not as expensive scooter. My mom has my same disability and sometimes we share the scooter at WDW because well, she is just not ready to get her own. Oh, and I use sign language to communicate with my family and I read lips and so you would never know how important accessible communication at disney would be to me. So without knowing all of my medical history or my personal story and seeing all of the people jumping in and out of my chair I am very certain you would "zap" me as an abuser and guess what.....you would be "zapping" the person who would be least likely to abuse any system. I ask for nothing more that to enjoy WDW like eveyone else does. I often have to wait longer to board rides, I have to plan my days so I can see shows when they are interpreted, I have to remember that doing too much one day will result in a shorter day the next time.
So while you are using your eyes and ears I think you might want to add to that something else, a memory of all the things you have read in this thread.

 

[disneyholic family]

3 years ago, my mother was crashed into by a marauding group of what looked like a motorcycle gang, wielding a wheelchair. They crashed into her, knocking her to the ground, laughed and continued on their way (no one was even sitting in the wheelchair at that point, as they raced across the park).

She was actually quite badly injured, including a gash in her leg. Fortunately, no broken bones, but it ruined what up to that point had been a perfectly wonderful trip.

I should have gone to guest services to complain, but she just wanted to get back to the room to lie down.

 

[colleen costello]

Maybe more people have a lot more extra money than I realize, but renting an ECV thru Mickey or an Orlando dealer is NOT cheap. Disney gets $40 per day and the Orlando places charge a similar fee, although you get to keep the ECV 24/7 throughout your trip. Do you realize these have to be charged at night, and disassembled and then reassembled if you are traveling by car? What I am saying is that I seriously doubt there is a big scooter-abuse problem... The scooters are just too expensive and fussy for people who really don't NEED them to want them!

My Mom is overweight, although that is NOT why she rents a scooter. She has various health issues. That scooter makes it possible for her to do WDW with her grandkids. Shame on anyone who judges people who use ECV's!

 

[gypsydoodlebug]

My brother's leg was nearly cut off in an industrial accident. It was re-attached and he now has a steel rod down the middle of it. He has a bad, bad series of scars but walks fairly normally on "good" days and looks ok in pants (well, as good as my bro can ever look!! ); however, for our upcoming trip, he's going to have to rent one of these because of the distance it takes to walk around the parks.

 

[faeflora]

3 years ago, my mother was crashed into by a marauding group of what looked like a motorcycle gang, wielding a wheelchair. They crashed into her, knocking her to the ground, laughed and continued on their way (no one was even sitting in the wheelchair at that point, as they raced across the park).

She was actually quite badly injured, including a gash in her leg. Fortunately, no broken bones, but it ruined what up to that point had been a perfectly wonderful trip.

I should have gone to guest services to complain, but she just wanted to get back to the room to lie down.

I am so sorry that this happened to your mom. That is unacceptable and I am sorry that your family had that experience.