Anyone else notice the Electric Wheelchair abuse at WDW?

[safetymom]

crazyj4488 ,How can you tell by looking at someone on a scooter whether or not they really need one?

 

[crazyj4488]

I think this might possibly be the meanest post I've ever seen. So sad that anyone could be so cynical. BTW - as an obese person with medical issues I have no desire to share with you, I will use an ECV whenever I need one and while I am able to do so, I will get up and walk short (or even longer) distances if its possible when ever I can. I'll not care what you think of me or whether you deem my reasoning sound as I rent my ECV, I'll be too busy enjoying Disneyworld in as little pain as possible.

Shelly

Chill out and read the post more carefully before getting all worked up.

The person is talking about people ABUSING the privelege....not the people, such as yourself, that have a legitimate reason to be using one.

It's crazy how worked up people get over this.

Just because someone is too stupid to figure out how to use a fastpass or doesn't take the time to properly plan their trip in order to avoid lines, it doesn't give them the right to jump on a scooter and go to the head of the line. Therein lies the point of the people that get upset over this inappropriate behavior.

/me shakes his head

 

[crazyj4488]

crazyj4488 ,How can you tell by looking at someone on a scooter whether or not they really need one?

You look, listen, observe some more and then use your super powers.

Come on now....that's beside the point. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE ONES WHO ARE OBVIOUSLY (key word here) ABUSING THE PRIVELEGE.

 

[safetymom]

I think you are making a judgement not observing. I go to the parks all the time and haven't seen anyone that I would think is abusing the system. But then I go to the parks with the attitude that I won't judge someone.

 

[crazyj4488]

NO NO...I am, in fact, constantly observing people at the parks, especially when I'm out there alone. Again, I'm speaking of those OBVIOUS (there's that word again) abusers...not making a judgement. YOU are making a judgement by judging me to be making a judgement.

 

[safetymom]

I am not making a judgement just asking how you arrived at that conclusion. You are entitled to your opinion but I think you will find many others here that disagree with yours. No judgement there just a statement of fact.

 

[crazyj4488]

Just as there are many others who would disagree with you and those others you speak of. Also a fact.

Lets AGREE TO DISAGREE and enjoy our freedom of opinion. There are more productive things to do than beat a dead horse to death.

/me offers a handshake of truce

 

[Hugpug]

You are correct in what you said and I think Disney should make it A requirement for those in need of a EVC or Wheelchair have a Doctors percription note to get one. Doing this would absolutly curb this awful practice.Disney I hope you are reading this. All of you DIS go to Disney web site an send a complaint to them to make them aware of this. If enough of us complain directly to them they will do something. Voicing here lets out our vent but they need to be aware of this awful thing that is happing.

 

[crazyj4488]

Bravo. I concur. No one's magical time should be trodden upon by disrespectful people. Besides, as others are obviously concerned about here....it gives the legitimate users a bad image. Anything that can be done to minimize upon the problem should be done.

 

[bytheblood]

I'm not in a wheelchair and I'm not overly large but I do have a medical condition that makes gaining weight almost a given and weight loss almost impossible, so you never know what a large person's issues are...they very well may have something like diabetes or the chronic condition I have (Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome).

Hey, I have that!!! I guess that makes us Cysters. I have only met 4 people in my life that have PCOS - it is not fun.

 

[SueM in MN]

OMG...don't get me started on this one. I've already had to defend myself from someone getting mad at my comment over this BS. I realize some people really need those things, but, for the most part, this situation only demonstrates how freaking lazy and overweight our society has gotten. I'm going to find a handheld device that sends a massive electrical shock to those things and then I'm going to zap every scooter abuser in the park with it. That'll force emm to get off their lazy arses and get a life. AGAIN, BEFORE I GET SCREAMED AT, I'm talking about the people that ABUSE the scooters...not the one's with legitimate use. I'm all for everyone having the same opportunity to enjoy themselves as someone fortunate enuff to be healthy like myself.

Read my SOLO trip report DAY 1 for my detailed experience with this annoyance. The link is shown in my sig. Crazy stuff!!!

For those who don't feel like going to read the posters "detailed experience", I copied and pasted it here:

By this time, there was no line leading into The Living Seas. However, there was this idiot on one of those motorized carts running into every single turn in the queue area. Every time he would hit a wall; he would stop and back up and continue on. I just couldn’t understand what the heck was wrong with this guy. People behind me were laughing at him and I swear he was doing it on purpose because his wife was laughing too.

Shortly after the dude who was simply too lazy to walk his *** around the park held the entire line of people up trying to get into the pavilion, we were let into the pre-show theater.

So this is the entirety of the "detailed experience", except a part earlier in the day where the poster had gone into Living Seas and turned right around and went out again because there was a line (there is no indication that line had anything to do with an ecv).

Just for the record, there is no way to tell from this experience why the man was using an ecv (just the poster's assumption that he was lazy). Anyone who has gone into The Living Seas with someone using a wheelchair or an ecv knows exactly "what the heck was wrong with this guy". The space is poorly designed for wheelchairs or ecvs. The guy was probably going a little too fast to make the turns and was nervous from all the people that he was aware were backing up behind him.

For anyone who has not been there, the queue is a long narrow passage that snakes back and forth across a rather large space. It is fairly dimly lit, which is a problem for some people whose eyes take longer to adjust to the light. Because the passage has waist high walls, you have to follow the exact queue path and there is not really room for someone in a wheelchair or ecv to easily let others by. The passage is not very wide, maybe 48 to 60 inches. It looks quite large if you are walking, but the size is marginal for turning an ecv or wheelchair.
An average adult size wheelchair needs a minimum turning space of 5 feet to turn without hitting anything. A park rental ecv is longer and needs even more space. If the turn begins doesn't begin at the correct point, you will hit the wall because the ecv is too big to turn in the remaining space. If there was only a turn or 2, it wouldn't be that much of a problem, but there many turns and they are not all exactly the same angle coming into the turn or going out of the turn. Also some turns are to the right and some are to the left, which makes planning harder.

The picture I thought of while reading the poster's trip report was PAC MAN, going thru the park as quickly as possible, avoiding the ghosts (lines with any waits whatesoever). I'd like it if people who have that mindset would prominently display a Pacman symbol on the front of their shirt and "It's all about ME" on the back so that the rest of us can avoid them and not inconvenience them in any way.

And here is a link to a story for people who think they are young and healthy and nothing can happen to them. And another link just for good measure.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

My mother has also used an ECV most times and she's never been asked for proof of anything either. Next time we go, she won't be using one bc she's since lost 140 lbs!! But, you're right people do abuse the system. I just think it's sad. Again, I just think "karma" because if you are blantantly trying to lie, cheat and steal to get something "extra" out of the system, you can't possibly feel good about yourself and what you're teaching your children.
Aloha!
Lulu

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

In addition, my best friend (also a roommate of mine when I was a CP Cast Member at Disney) has PCOS and I can tell you it's not fun. I am glad to hear you guys have such a positive outlook and great sense of humor though!
Aloha
Lulu

 

[shellybaxter]

Chill out and read the post more carefully before getting all worked up.

The person is talking about people ABUSING the privelege....not the people, such as yourself, that have a legitimate reason to be using one.

No actually the person was talking about who THEY thought had legitimate excuses, and in their post I believe I would be labeled as an "abuser" by this poster. I take offense at that. I have every right to be offended. I will not "chill out" when such a mean spirted post is written. This reminds me of the "why do wheelchair people and their families get loaded on the bus first" thread. I think the same question should be asked here of those who are questioning the abuses of people with invisible disabilities. "Would you like to trade places with that person for even a day?" Tolerance is in short supply for some on this board, even when they are supposed to be on vacation.

BTW - The "idiot" in the ECV from a recent post, were it not a man, could have easily been me. The entrance to the Living Seas is HARD to navigate. I hit the side a lot when I try to go down there. My family laughs at me when I do, and I laugh sometimes to, but what are we suppose to do? If you don't laugh you'll cry, so laughing is how we deal with things. I don't go there often, but when I'm with little ones I know how much they'll enjoy it, so I go. I try to go when there isn't a big line. Sorry for your inconvienence

Shelly

 

[Pedler]

One thing I find amazing about this is that there are some people that think there is no one that abuses the system. There are certainly people that need these devices that do not appear to. There are also people that need them becuase of weight issues that are related to other medical problems. But there are also people that are obese due to nothing more than life style choices and there are some people that use them that really shouldn't. I think we can all agree on that.

The question is where do you come down on setting the rules. It would be impossible to have a perfect rule set that allowed all of the people that had a legitimate need use them and not allow those that abuse the system. IMHO you should error on more people having access to them than less. It would be better that some people abuse the system than those that really need them not get them or feel that the shouldn't use them.

It annoys the heck out of me that people would abuse something like this but I would rather put up with a few abusers than have a legitmate user feel that they shouldn't use one or worse yet be denied one. That to me would the the worse possible situation.

Having said that I don't see why some people on this thread can't accept that there are the occasional abusers of the system, like any other system, and understand why some people get upset over it. I am not saying anything should be changed about it but like everything in life there are some people out there that will abuse anything.

 

[SueM in MN]

Having said that I don't see why some people on this thread can't accept that there are the occasional abusers of the system, like any other system, and understand why some people get upset over it. I am not saying anything should be changed about it but like everything in life there are some people out there that will abuse anything.

I think the thing is being reacted to is that there are people who are deciding by what they see in a few seconds time that abuse is going on. I think that happens a lot more than actual "abuse".
My FIL has 2 bad hip and 2 bad knees from years of farming (and being kicked in the knee a few times by cows). Someone looking at him riding an ecv might decide he is riding it because he is overweight (not much, but a bit). My SIL had polio as a child. One of her feet is mis-shapen because of surgery and she walks with a pronounced limp. But, her foot is not visible when sitting on an ecv, and someone might conclude she is lazy. And, even if they were using an ecv or wheelchair because they were overweight and could not walk long distances, why would that be abuse?

My own DD has cerebral palsy and uses a wheelchair. She's a tiny adult - 5 feet tall and 86 pounds. We have heard people say that she is "cheating" because they saw her sitting on a bench, with her wheelchair sitting next to her. That person thought he could (and had a right to) decide who had a right to use a wheelchair, but in my DD's case, he was dead wrong because she can't even stand by herself.

One of the other reasons that some of us think there is little abuse (I don't say no abuse) is because we have traveled with someone using a wheelchair/ecv.
It's not easy. You have to be more attentive because people don't "see" wheelchairs and ecvs. And, many of the people who do "see" you will be mentally catalogging whether or not you appear disabled enough in their mind to be using it. That's daunting enough that it keeps many people who could use one from using one.
The driver always has to be attentive to whether or not the wheelchair/ecv will fit in the space allowed. For someone like my DD who has used a wheelchair her whole life, that's not such a big problem. But, for someone whose mental picture of themself is walking, it is a big adjustment and sometimes they don't get it right.
And, what advantages do you get?
There is not much incentive for abuse. Since most lines are accessible, in most cases, people using ecvs and wheelchairs are waiting in the same line with everyone else (this was not the case 10 years ago, but as parks/attractions were added and things were renovated, as many lines were made fully accessible as possible).
There are special wheelchair viewing spots for parades, but you have to get there 1.5 - 2 hours ahead of time, can't leave and are usually packed in pretty tightly. Oh, and if it's already busy when you arrive, you will be limited to the person with a disability and one other member of your party (rightly so, to save space for people with wheelchairs/ecvs who might come later). If it's not busy and your whole party is allowed, the "extra" people can be asked to leave at any point to make more room.
So the main "advantage" someone using a wheelchair or ecv has is that they have a place to sit while they wait. Since ecvs cost $30 a day to rent - how many people want to throw away that much money just to have a place to sit in line?

 

[ksoehrlein]

Last month at MK, we saw a dad in an ECV. His teenage son was behind him in a push wheelchair, with his feet hooked through the back of the dad's ECV. In effect, the dad was towing the son through the park. If neither had a disability, I would certainly categorize their use of ECV and wheelchair as abuse. Even if both had a legitimate reason for their chairs, I still have major issues with them touring the parks in this manner because of the potential for injury. DH is a podiatrist, and all I could picture was some sort of accident resulting in multiple foot fractures for the son. So whether guilty of abusing the system or guilty of using poor judgement, those two were certainly guilty of something!

 

[Amy&Dan]

OMG...don't get me started on this one. I've already had to defend myself from someone getting mad at my comment over this BS. I realize some people really need those things, but, for the most part, this situation only demonstrates how freaking lazy and overweight our society has gotten. I'm going to find a handheld device that sends a massive electrical shock to those things and then I'm going to zap every scooter abuser in the park with it. That'll force emm to get off their lazy arses and get a life. AGAIN, BEFORE I GET SCREAMED AT, I'm talking about the people that ABUSE the scooters...not the one's with legitimate use. I'm all for everyone having the same opportunity to enjoy themselves as someone fortunate enuff to be healthy like myself.

Read my SOLO trip report DAY 1 for my detailed experience with this annoyance. The link is shown in my sig. Crazy stuff!!!

I read your trip report and really enjoyed it. However you are a young guy, single, no kids and life seems pretty black and white to you. 20 years from now you might feel differently because life will be different. I am sorry you saw some ECV abuse, I know it can happen. Be careful who you zap because again you have NO IDEA the story behind that scooter. However, if you zap my overweight father in law who cannot exercise because he has serious heart problems he was born with, I will take offense. You will see him get up, walk around and look normal. Then you might see him collapse later on when his heart gets out of rhythm. I just urge you to think about the bigger picture. Also another take, is why do you care so much? If some overweight person who has no other reason for renting an ECV pays good money to rent that scooter, why get so upset? Get over it! Believe me they pay dearly for their condition and decisions, no need to zap them. When I read your comments it just reiterated to me once again, the hatred and disgust people feel about the obese is the last form of acceptable racism in this country. And one last word of advice: Get Sally some Body Glide or Blistershield products. I haven't had a blister on my feet since I started using them!

Just thought of something else. Your girlfriend smokes. If she gets lung cancer and is dying in 25 years and you want to take her to WDW one last time before she passes, you might need an ECV. Should you be allowed to rent one? After all, Sally didn't need to smoke so why should she be allowed to have conveniences when she could have just quit? Just a thought...

 

[JoannaOhio]

Like SueM, I was intrigued by crazyj4488's invitation to read Day 1 of his trip report for his "detailed experience" with the annoyance of someone abusing the use of an ECV. I read through his lengthy report, and made some notes. In fact, I read through the first part of Day 2, thinking I had somehow missed the flagrant "abuse" he referred to. By the time I got back here to post, SueM had beat me to it - (as shown below). I'll add some more comments after the quotes.

OMG...don't get me started on this one. I've already had to defend myself from someone getting mad at my comment over this BS. I realize some people really need those things, but, for the most part, this situation only demonstrates how freaking lazy and overweight our society has gotten. I'm going to find a handheld device that sends a massive electrical shock to those things and then I'm going to zap every scooter abuser in the park with it. That'll force emm to get off their lazy arses and get a life. AGAIN, BEFORE I GET SCREAMED AT, I'm talking about the people that ABUSE the scooters...not the one's with legitimate use. I'm all for everyone having the same opportunity to enjoy themselves as someone fortunate enuff to be healthy like myself. Read my SOLO trip report DAY 1 for my detailed experience with this annoyance. The link is shown in my sig. Crazy stuff!!!

For those who don't feel like going to read the posters "detailed experience", I copied and pasted it here:

By this time, there was no line leading into The Living Seas. However, there was this idiot on one of those motorized carts running into every single turn in the queue area. Every time he would hit a wall; he would stop and back up and continue on. I just couldn’t understand what the heck was wrong with this guy. People behind me were laughing at him and I swear he was doing it on purpose because his wife was laughing too. Shortly after the dude who was simply too lazy to walk his *** around the park held the entire line of people up trying to get into the pavilion, we were let into the pre-show theater.

So this is the entirety of the "detailed experience", except a part earlier in the day where the poster had gone into Living Seas and turned right around and went out again because there was a line (there is no indication that line had anything to do with an ecv). Just for the record, there is no way to tell from this experience why the man was using an ecv (just the poster's assumption that he was lazy). Anyone who has gone into The Living Seas with someone using a wheelchair or an ecv knows exactly "what the heck was wrong with this guy". The space is poorly designed for wheelchairs or ecvs. The guy was probably going a little too fast to make the turns and was nervous from all the people that he was aware were backing up behind him.

For anyone who has not been there, the queue is a long narrow passage that snakes back and forth across a rather large space. It is fairly dimly lit, which is a problem for some people whose eyes take longer to adjust to the light. Because the passage has waist high walls, you have to follow the exact queue path and there is not really room for someone in a wheelchair or ecv to easily let others by. The passage is not very wide, maybe 48 to 60 inches. It looks quite large if you are walking, but the size is marginal for turning an ecv or wheelchair. An average adult size wheelchair needs a minimum turning space of 5 feet to turn without hitting anything. A park rental ecv is longer and needs even more space. If the turn begins doesn't begin at the correct point, you will hit the wall because the ecv is too big to turn in the remaining space. If there was only a turn or 2, it wouldn't be that much of a problem, but there many turns and they are not all exactly the same angle coming into the turn or going out of the turn. Also some turns are to the right and some are to the left, which makes planning harder.

The picture I thought of while reading the poster's trip report was PAC MAN, going thru the park as quickly as possible, avoiding the ghosts (lines with any waits whatesoever). I'd like it if people who have that mindset would prominently display a Pacman symbol on the front of their shirt and "It's all about ME" on the back so that the rest of us can avoid them and not inconvenience them in any way.

I don't usually respond to these kind of posts, and I realize I am probably about to make at least one enemy on these boards, but after wading through the first two parts of crazyj4488's lengthy trip report, I can't resist pointing out some of the instances where he writes about things that would definitely not be "okay" in my book, and reeks of "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones", etc. (All of the bold emphasis was added by me.)

Before I knew it, I was within 3 miles of the Walt Disney World front gates. The last 50 cent toll booth I arrived at was unmanned and I had only paper bills on me. I yelled at the driver behind me to see if he had change for a dollar and he told me to blow through it. I was in a rental whose license plate was not connected to my name so I hit the pedal.

With his annual pass he entered and parked in the lot at the Boardwalk Resort (not the resort he was staying at). After wandering around that area for a bit, he walked over to enter Epcot at the International Gateway. Okay, perhaps since it was at a slow time it didn't deprive a Boardwalk Resort guest of a parking spot, but it is my understanding that those parking places are not to be used by people going to Epcot.

I made my way down the stairs and grabbed a Soarin’ Fastpass that had a return time of 6:45 PM on it. It was just past 2 PM and I was surprised that there were any Fastpasses left for the day. It was just another example of how light the crowds were. After grabbing a pass, I went ahead and rode Soarin’ using an old Fastpass I had from my last trip.

Okay, I know people do it, but that isn't really the intent of the FASTPASS system, and abuses like this may eventually lead to Disney doing away with it - or at least cracking down on the use of outdated FPs.

Test Track, as usual, had a ridiculous standby wait time but the single rider line didn’t look bad at all. I took advantage of my solo status and was loaded onto a test vehicle in about 10 minutes. The ride kinda stunk because the sound wasn’t working in our car. We had no narration while making our way through the test facility. I never thought the absence of the narrative would cause everything, up until the speed loops, to become quite boring. After exiting the attraction, I had such a bad taste left in my mouth that I decided not to ride it again during my trip even though I had, at least, 4 Fastpasses for it.

Same comments as above.

By this time, there was no line leading into The Living Seas. However, there was this idiot on one of those motorized carts running into every single turn in the queue area. Every time he would hit a wall; he would stop and back up and continue on. I just couldn’t understand what the heck was wrong with this guy. People behind me were laughing at him and I swear he was doing it on purpose because his wife was laughing too. Shortly after the dude who was simply too lazy to walk his *** around the park held the entire line of people up trying to get into the pavilion, we were let into the pre-show theater.

I think SueM has already responded succinctly enough to this one.

(Day 2) - The opening ceremony for the park was already in full swing as I made my way down the monorail platform ramp. The entire crowd corralling area up to the train station was filled up and I was getting a little worried. I didn’t want to follow a slowly moving clump of people as they bottlenecked their way through the train station. Therefore, I passed through the turnstile and weaseled my way through the crowd. I was standing relatively close to the first rope drop just as the ceremony was wrapping up. This was another example of the advantage I had as a solo traveler at WDW. I could wiggle my way around hordes of people with ease.

Do I really need to add a comment about this? And yet another example of the "me"-centeredness of this poster:

While I browsed my way through the shops on Main Street, my cell phone rang and it was a client on the other end of the line. I walked through the shops, fixed her problem over the phone, and took a mental note to bill her when I returned to my room. There was nothing like earning a quick $95 while walking down Main Street.

Like I said earlier, people in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.

All of the opinions expressed by JoannaOhio are her own - and they are just that - OPINIONS - to which she feels she is entitled.

 

[Laurajean1014]

Before making judgements on others, ask yourself if it is your business to do so.

Remember: Opinions are like ***holes, everyone's got one and no-one thinks their's stink.