Anyone else miss the challenge of the old fast passes?

[wisblue]

But I've also been pulling up wait times via browser (which is actually easier to do than logging into MDE to see what FP's are available) and have been seeing pretty low wait times for the secondaries at HS like right now:

For whatever reason, and I don't think it is weather related, the wait times the last couple of days have been a lot lower than Touring Plans had predicted.

Touring Plans had predicted crowd levels of 6, 5, and 6 for the last 3 days, but they observed actual crowd levels (based purely on ride wait times) of 4, 3, and 2. Easywdw (which uses a different method) had predicted 4, 5, and 5.

 

[Laketravis]

For whatever reason, and I don't think it is weather related, the wait times the last couple of days have been a lot lower than Touring Plans had predicted.

Touring Plans had predicted crowd levels of 6, 5, and 6 for the last 3 days, but they observed actual crowd levels (based purely on ride wait times) of 4, 3, and 2. Easywdw (which uses a different method) had predicted 4, 5, and 5.

Agreed, maybe it's the lull before the spring break storm? I've been surprised at how low many of them are. Of course the chronically high ones are still up there but the rest are encouraging.


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[Angel Ariel]

I am saying that anything that goes beyond how Disney expects and advertised the program to work is a loophole. I am not saying that what you did was wrong, immoral, any of that but I don't think the argument can be made that it is the way Disney envisioned the program to work. And your example was a very mild example. I have seen the extreme of how many FPs one could accumulate if they were motivated.

How is it a loophole to get FPs 40 mins apart, if the FP return ticket in your hand said you could pull another one in 40 mins? Regardless of how many times that happened in a day, getting another FP when the one you have in your hand says your allowed to is not a loophole.

 

[BugsDaddy]

And completely within any interpretation of the "rules" one might have. Are you implying otherwise?

What I am implying is that this is not the way Disney envisioned the program to work nor how it was advertised but clever people could figure it out. Disney knew about it but did not close the ability to accumulate multiple fast passes with basically no expiration on usage (that day) until later. If you feel that this is exactly how Disney expected the program to work, you are entitled to your opinion. That same thought process could also be used to justify multiple Magic Bands being used to accumulate 6 FPs. It's not against the rules as written right now busboy doesn't mean that is the way Disney wants or expects the orogram to run.

 

[Laketravis]

How is it a loophole to get FPs 40 mins apart, if the FP return ticket in your hand said you could pull another one in 40 mins? Regardless of how many times that happened in a day, getting another FP when the one you have in your hand says your allowed to is not a loophole.

Because, darn it, it just wasn't FAIR!


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[wisblue]

And that could be what a lot of folks find upsetting.


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Of course it is, and I have always recognized and said that. I don't expect people who got the maximum advantage from the paper FP system to be happy that they lost that advantage.

But, whether they accept or not that they were in the minority, and whether they are happy about it or not, at some point they have to move on. It's up to them to decide when that is.

 

[BugsDaddy]

How is it a loophole to get FPs 40 mins apart, if the FP return ticket in your hand said you could pull another one in 40 mins? Regardless of how many times that happened in a day, getting another FP when the one you have in your hand says your allowed to is not a loophole.

Do you think that accumulating and hoarding multiple (In some cases a lot) fast passes to be used at any time during the day is how Disney envisioned the program to work? If the answer is no, that would be the definition of a loophole.

 

[mesaboy2]

What I am implying is that this is not the way Disney envisioned the program to work nor how it was advertised but clever people could figure it out. Disney knew about it but did not close the ability to accumulate multiple fast passes with basically no expiration on usage (that day) until later. If you feel that this is exactly how Disney expected the program to work, you are entitled to your opinion. That same thought process could also be used to justify multiple Magic Bands being used to accumulate 6 FPs. It's not against the rules as written right now busboy doesn't mean that is the way Disney wants or expects the orogram to run.

My posts have not implied that I did that--you are inferring it.

I could read the FPs, and the system completely allowed my example and the even better one you helpfully added on with only 40-minute spacing between FPs.

 

[Laketravis]

Of course it is, and I have always recognized and said that. I don't expect people who got the maximum advantage from the paper FP system to be happy that they lost that advantage.

But, whether they accept or not that they were in the minority, and whether they are happy about it or not, at some point they have to move on. It's up to them to decide when that is.

No, I meant people might find it upsetting that someone at Disney would think "it's working" because the intent is to provide less.


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[BugsDaddy]

How is it a loophole to get FPs 40 mins apart, if the FP return ticket in your hand said you could pull another one in 40 mins? Regardless of how many times that happened in a day, getting another FP when the one you have in your hand says your allowed to is not a loophole.

That same thought process can be used to defend people that use multiple MBs to get extra FPs. It is outside the spirit of the program but there are no rules against it. Do you think that is ok too? Just because something isn't regulated doesn't make it "right" by default.

 

[BugsDaddy]

My posts have not implied that I did that--you are inferring it.

I could read the FPs, and the system completely allowed my example and the even better one you helpfully added on with only 40-minute spacing between FPs.

Yes, the system did allow it. I used it, frequently as I said.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Do you think that accumulating and hoarding multiple (In some cases a lot) fast passes to be used at any time during the day is how Disney envisioned the program to work? If the answer is no, that would be the definition of a loophole.

What mesa was describing - getting FPs 40 mins apart - is not in and of itself hoarding FPs. He didn't mention using the FPs at any time during the day past their window. he spoke of getting FPs 40 mins apart.

So again, I ask, how is getting FPs 40 mins apart if that's when the FPs say you can get them (and, to clarify since it's needed, *using them during their windows*), regardless of how many you collect, a loophole?

 

[wisblue]

No, I meant people might find it upsetting that someone at Disney would think "it's working" because the intent was to provide less.
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Oh, OK, but still, in that context the intent was to provide more for Group A and less for Group B, and Group A is a lot bigger than Group B. To me, that is a very sensible decision for a company to make.

 

[mesaboy2]

Yes, the system did allow it. I used it, frequently as I said.

So are we agreed on the point I am discussing--and not the one you are injecting--that it is possible to have more than 2 sets of FPs at once and it not be a loophole?

 

[Laketravis]

Do you think that accumulating and hoarding multiple (In some cases a lot) fast passes to be used at any time during the day is how Disney envisioned the program to work?

Theme parks institute queue management systems because they need to reduce the negative impact that long lines can have.

They don't do it so that ride distribution is more equitable regardless of individual circumstances such as when guest A arrived at the park or what guest B would like to do or how many times guest C got to ride but guest D didn't.

If anyone thinks that Disney "envisioned" FP to be some sort of guest equalizer in terms of ride access, they're wrong. It was Disney's initial foray into queue management with the sole purpose of suppressing extreme wait times, and the only vision they had was the one they wished to avoid - chronic 180 minute wait times at certain attractions.

FP 2.0 is a continuation of that utilizing technology to squeeze capacity out of lesser utilized attractions, something FP 1.0 was not able to accomplish.

It had absolutely nothing to do with Susie not being able to ride TSMM because Johnny rode it twice.


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[Lisa loves Pooh]

So are we agreed on the point I am discussing--and not the one you are injecting--that it is possible to have more than 2 sets of FPs at once and it not be a loophole?

Can't argue with that. It isn't a loophole.

However, folks posturing there were not any loopholes is rather silly and untrue.

 

[Angel Ariel]

That same thought process can be used to defend people that use multiple MBs to get extra FPs. It is outside the spirit of the program but there are no rules against it. Do you think that is ok too? Just because something isn't regulated doesn't make it "right" by default.

You're inferring the "using it past the window" when I did not state that, nor is that to which I was referring. Please see my latest post.

ETA: I have only been referring to getting FPs when the ticket says to, *as well as* using them within their windows. If someone is able to get 10 FPs throughout the day (not at once) doing this (just throwing a number out there randomly) - then it seems as though you would consider this a loophole, even though the guest is following the Disney rules to the letter.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Can't argue with that. It isn't a loophole.

However, folks posturing there were not any loopholes is rather silly and untrue.

I haven't seen anyone say there weren't any loopholes.

 

[BugsDaddy]

What mesa was describing - getting FPs 40 mins apart - is not in and of itself hoarding FPs. He didn't mention using the FPs at any time during the day past their window. he spoke of getting FPs 40 mins apart.

So again, I ask, how is getting FPs 40 mins apart (and, to clarify since it's needed, *using them during their windows*), regardless of how many you collect, a loophole?

That in itself is not a loophole. If I misread his post, I apologize. My example was accumulating fast passes with only he intention of using them long after the return time. Yes, you could accumulate 3 passes with return times of much later without it being considered a loophole.

 

[Cormoran]

I appreciate the fact that some of the biggest detractors of FP+ at least freely admit that their dislike of the system is purely because it doesn't work well for them compared to the paper system. But, it continues to astound me that some people fail to understand why Disney might think that a system that results in a more even distribution is in its (and the majority of its guests') best interests. When someone says "I typically got 2 FPs each for TT and Soarin in a day and now I can only get one for one of them" someone at Disney is seeing that and thinking to him/herself "It's working".

Hi Wisblue, I question this assertion only because I have seen many posts from people who are using multiple Magic Bands to get more FP+s. They are not playing by the "rules" of using their first 3 FP's before getting their 4th, 5th, or 6th..... So I don't know if the system is any more equitable than Legacy was.