Any Unschoolers here who ditched that method?

[DebIreland]

The kind of unschooling the OP's friend is doing is uncommon, very fringe-of all the homeschoolers I have known, I didn't know anyone who practiced it that way. I knew a few unschoolers, but they were nothing like the OP's friend, they were more 'child-led' rather than no structure at all, and they washed their kids' hair

But the vast majority of homeschoolers have some sort of structure and educate their children appropriately, in a variety of ways. The OP's friend is WAY WAY out there on the edge-not at all representative of homeschoolers.

If OP's friend's DH really has a problem with it, he needs to step up and lead the family. Either insist that wife actually educate the kids, or enroll them in some school. That is really the problem in this case, and the unschooling is a symptom

Very well said. The only part of your post I'd question is the reference to homeschoolers. Can you even call unschoolers homeschoolers? The only thing they have in common really is that their children are not in formal school. Other than that, they're so different with homeschoolers providing an all-round education and unschoolers.... well, not doing so... lol!

Just to add: I'm amazed this heated debate even took place on this thread. At the end of the day I don't see this issue being homeschool versus formal school at all. It seems to me those are not the two sides in this argument because both sides are actively providing their children with an education. So imo it's actually (i) those who provide an education for their kids (i.e. homeschoolers *and* those who bring their kids to regular school) versus (ii) radical unschoolers.

 

[herdtoDisney]

The few people that I ever knew who called themselves 'unschoolers' were probably more 'relaxed' homeschoolers. They all were more structured as their kids got older, similar to Montessori. I didn't know anyone personally who ascribed to the radical type, like on the linked message boards upthread. I'm not sure what to call those folks

 

[Jessica14]

That's why I started this thread. I needed to know two things: is it really possible for a child to learn to read without being taught, to just pick it up when they're ready??

And if anyone has Unschooled and decided it made a mess of their children's lives. I can't find one single parent online that says it turned out badly. Is it possible it never turns out badly?

I can't find the link now, but I read a whole forum where parents felt that the radical uncschooling community made them feel so inadequate as parents-as in if its not working, you, the parent, are messing up-that they bailed early on. It caused a huge disruption in their home and they gave it up. So they may have tried for a few years, but then ultimately went a more traditional route. So they never got to the point where it "ruined" their kids. I also don't think more traditional homeschooling is always successful. I have known more then one adult who could not deal with the adult world because they had been so sheltered in homeschool. I don't think most do this by the way. Just because you got into college, does not mean you can deal socially.

I had also mentioned in an earlier post that some people's idea of successs is quite different from others definition. One of the leaders in the movement has a near 20 year old daughter who periodically gets a babysitting gig, lives at home, and has no desire to further her education, but its OK because she is a good person, who is happy and likes her parents and continues to learn everyday. I keep thinking how mcuh she could offer children if she pursued early childhood education, become a licenced daycare provider or (heaven forbid) a teacher in a classroom. That just doesn't seem likely and its too bad. But if she feels content, then ultimately its her business. And certainly others are in this situation as well, but at least whether traditionally homeschooled or traditionally public schooled, at least they have that background in structured learning.
Jessica

 

[Colleen27]

That's why I started this thread. I needed to know two things: is it really possible for a child to learn to read without being taught, to just pick it up when they're ready??

And if anyone has Unschooled and decided it made a mess of their children's lives. I can't find one single parent online that says it turned out badly. Is it possible it never turns out badly?

Yes, it is possible to learn to read without being taught. I did it and so did my middle child (reading before school and with no formal instruction at home, just picking it up from being read to).

As far as unschooling turning out badly, I wouldn't expect to hear many of those stories. The sort of people who would embrace radical unschooling and who won't even insist on hygiene or good nutrition probably don't put much stock in generally accepted measures of success.

 

[leebee]

My ex-SIL unschools their 4 kids. Nephew who is 22 works part-time in a photo booth and goes to community college part-time, but he was in public school until 3rd grade so learned to read. The other 3 kids... 18 year old reads on about a 4th grade level and can multiply. 13 year old can add and read simplistic books. 11 year old has no math or reading skills.

When Bro and SIL were divorcing, he wanted public education for the kids. Judge said that, since they'd decided to homeschool when they were married, he wasn't going to get into the education question when they were divorcing. The State of Maine declines to get involved in educational issues when settling divorces. The family gets around the issue of progress because of a loophole in the law. Basically, annual progress must be evaluated by a certified evaluator, a teacher, or a member of a homeschool community group. The latter means anyone you know who homeschools. Therefore, exSIL simply gets a friend who unschools and is of similar outlook to "certify" that the kids have made progress.

 

[knitster]

My ex-SIL unschools their 4 kids. Nephew who is 22 works part-time in a photo booth and goes to community college part-time, but he was in public school until 3rd grade so learned to read. The other 3 kids... 18 year old reads on about a 4th grade level and can multiply. 13 year old can add and read simplistic books. 11 year old has no math or reading skills.

When Bro and SIL were divorcing, he wanted public education for the kids. Judge said that, since they'd decided to homeschool when they were married, he wasn't going to get into the education question when they were divorcing. The State of Maine declines to get involved in educational issues when settling divorces. The family gets around the issue of progress because of a loophole in the law. Basically, annual progress must be evaluated by a certified evaluator, a teacher, or a member of a homeschool community group. The latter means anyone you know who homeschools. Therefore, exSIL simply gets a friend who unschools and is of similar outlook to "certify" that the kids have made progress.

That is so sad.

 

[MoonFaerie]

I'm just curious. Checking up on the daily schoolwork and making sure a child does his homework is not involved enough? After 7 hours at school we have assorted afterschool activities, an hour for dinner, and 2 hours homework....what exactly am I supposed to be doing? And exactly how much time do I have to do it?

I'm saying several students, in a class of 19 1st graders, don't even have their daily schoolwork checked or their homework done. And homework certainly is no where near 2 hours. 1 maybe, if the child is an extremely slow worker or really struggling. The entire week's worth this week is: 2 stories in the book (19 pages total), 2 math worksheets, spelling words (5 words), and vocab (just need to be able to read and recognize, not know the definition - 15 words that come from the readings).

I'm not saying everyone needs to volunteer. I am saying the parents should be involved with homework on a grade appropriate level. And I don't see a lot of that, though this year's class is more involved than last years.

 

[MoonFaerie]

I agree that that doesn't read 'uninvolved' to me, reads 'normal, involved adults with jobs.'

Huh, well color me shocked one can be involved with the child's schooling without checking the daily folder and making sure homework gets done the majority of the time. You learn something new every day on the Dis.

Today, out of 19 students, 6 didn't have their folders at all. Another 3 hadn't checked the folders at all (older papers still in folder, no initial on daily communication, and homework not done). That's 9/19, pretty much 1/2. That's what I'm saying about there not being much parental involvement. IMO, that IS sad. If that makes me a judgmental witch, so be it. I'll own it.

 

[MoonFaerie]

My ex-SIL unschools their 4 kids. Nephew who is 22 works part-time in a photo booth and goes to community college part-time, but he was in public school until 3rd grade so learned to read. The other 3 kids... 18 year old reads on about a 4th grade level and can multiply. 13 year old can add and read simplistic books. 11 year old has no math or reading skills.

When Bro and SIL were divorcing, he wanted public education for the kids. Judge said that, since they'd decided to homeschool when they were married, he wasn't going to get into the education question when they were divorcing. The State of Maine declines to get involved in educational issues when settling divorces. The family gets around the issue of progress because of a loophole in the law. Basically, annual progress must be evaluated by a certified evaluator, a teacher, or a member of a homeschool community group. The latter means anyone you know who homeschools. Therefore, exSIL simply gets a friend who unschools and is of similar outlook to "certify" that the kids have made progress.

Not all unschoolers are like that though. IMO, unschooling is fantastic when it works and is done properly. Also IMO, it's not the best fit for most students. It would ROCK for my DS, if I can figure out how to make up for the social aspects of traditional public schooling. Realistically, we're probably looking at private schools when we move in 2 years. Unschooling DD however would be failing her big time, I think.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Huh, well color me shocked one can be involved with the child's schooling without checking the daily folder and making sure homework gets done the majority of the time. You learn something new every day on the Dis.

Today, out of 19 students, 6 didn't have their folders at all. Another 3 hadn't checked the folders at all (older papers still in folder, no initial on daily communication, and homework not done). That's 9/19, pretty much 1/2. That's what I'm saying about there not being much parental involvement. IMO, that IS sad. If that makes me a judgmental witch, so be it. I'll own it.

That would be for the teacher to deal with. NOT you.

Welcome to the world of managing a group of people going in 50 different directions. You find out real quick that you wish you were like them or can't believe they are not like you. How you react to it determines the kind of person you are.

I try not to be too concerned with what other folks are doing or not doing with their kids unless I am personally in charge of their kids in some way and need them to be more proactive. Room mom does not fit that bill.

 

[torinsmom]

Yes, it is possible to learn to read without being taught. I did it and so did my middle child (reading before school and with no formal instruction at home, just picking it up from being read to).

As far as unschooling turning out badly, I wouldn't expect to hear many of those stories. The sort of people who would embrace radical unschooling and who won't even insist on hygiene or good nutrition probably don't put much stock in generally accepted measures of success.

Kids can learn to read without being taught, but this is much more common at the age of 4 or 5 than at 9. A child really has to WANT to read to learn to read, either with someone else's help or on their own. Younger kids are more likely to have this desire.

 

[cornflake]

Huh, well color me shocked one can be involved with the child's schooling without checking the daily folder and making sure homework gets done the majority of the time. You learn something new every day on the Dis.

Today, out of 19 students, 6 didn't have their folders at all. Another 3 hadn't checked the folders at all (older papers still in folder, no initial on daily communication, and homework not done). That's 9/19, pretty much 1/2. That's what I'm saying about there not being much parental involvement. IMO, that IS sad. If that makes me a judgmental witch, so be it. I'll own it.

Didn't you originally say that "all" the parents were doing were checking the homework folders? Wasn't that the point of like five replies, including the one you quoted above mine, asking if checking the homework folders or whatever wasn't involvement?

Also, I'm confused, are you the teacher? Because another reply to you implies you're not, in which case why in the world do you know what kids have what?

 

[knitster]

Didn't you originally say that "all" the parents were doing were checking the homework folders? Wasn't that the point of like five replies, including the one you quoted above mine, asking if checking the homework folders or whatever wasn't involvement?

Also, I'm confused, are you the teacher? Because another reply to you implies you're not, in which case why in the world do you know what kids have what?

I'm confused about that as well.

 

[palavra]

Oh, I know it's possible. With very few exceptions, I don't believe it's a proper education. That opinion won't change.

Last thing ~ Aisling, I don't know if you're still reading or not, but your friend is harming her children, even though she doesn't believe she is. Her refusal to parent her children will only end up detrimental to them, and cause many, many issues for them in the future, in addition to the ones they already have. I hope if she does read this thread, the possibility of being reported to the authorities will open her eyes.

I think it is a bit odd that you think a public school education is proper when many schools are clearly failing the students. I am a middle school teacher in a private school. My daughter is in third grade at the same school. Next year, because we are moving overseas, I will be homeschooling her. Not only do I think it is a sound method of education, I believe I will do a far better job than any public school because I know my daughter's strengths and weaknesses. The fact that I have teacher certification doesn't even factor into the fact that many, many homeschooled kids go on to university and excel.

 

[princessmom29]

I'm saying several students, in a class of 19 1st graders, don't even have their daily schoolwork checked or their homework done. And homework certainly is no where near 2 hours. 1 maybe, if the child is an extremely slow worker or really struggling. The entire week's worth this week is: 2 stories in the book (19 pages total), 2 math worksheets, spelling words (5 words), and vocab (just need to be able to read and recognize, not know the definition - 15 words that come from the readings).

I'm not saying everyone needs to volunteer. I am saying the parents should be involved with homework on a grade appropriate level. And I don't see a lot of that, though this year's class is more involved than last years.

My Dd did much more than that in 1st grade. We had 15 spelling words plus dictations sentences and spelling, grammar, and math home work every night along with at least one other subject.

 

[HelenePA]

Well I have a 1st grader and tonight we had 2 stories to read... they were about 10 pages each, no math tonght (we did have math last night) a english paper we had to do, he has 10 spelling words a week. No spelling homework tonight but the words are in the stories we read... his words are yet, web, pen, wet, leg, hen, ten, bed, they, walk. My dd who is in 3rd has 18 words a week I'm going to be honest... I dont do anything with her homework.. I have checked her grades and she has straight 100's in everything so far. She's a smarty pants and can handle it herself... she would be an awesome kid to unschool but she would hate being home with me... she loves school. LOVES it...

 

[MoonFaerie]

Didn't you originally say that "all" the parents were doing were checking the homework folders? Wasn't that the point of like five replies, including the one you quoted above mine, asking if checking the homework folders or whatever wasn't involvement?

Also, I'm confused, are you the teacher? Because another reply to you implies you're not, in which case why in the world do you know what kids have what?

No, I'm not the teacher, but I do volunteer 1-2 days a week in the morning. I check folders, make copies, laminate things, help with reading groups, etc. Last year, the teacher had a full time and a part time assistant last year(DS had her last year, DD does this year); this year she only has a part time assistant for 1.5 hrs a day.

IMO, involvement in the child's education should at the very least be checking folders/homework, at least at the elementary level. By high school, most kids can be pretty independent WRT homework, I think. Beyond that, I think that, barring extreme cases, parents should be providing reading material and helping with any subjects the student is struggling in. And I think parents, as much as possible, should be teaching life skills. I think that without proactive parents, public school can fail individuals as much as unschooling. I also provide tons of enrichment for my kids, but I'm fortunate to have the resources to do that.

I think as a society we don't support families and parents, which in turn means we're undermining anything we try to do to improve education. We can throw money at it all day long, but unless we fix how we value and perceive education and look at what can help education, nothing will change. I do think it's sad. I mean, technology is great, but buying smart boards for the elementary school while cutting assistants doesn't seem in the students best interests to me. It makes it pretty darn hard to do small group work with only one adult and a room full of 20ish 6 year olds, and it's easier to meet individual needs if they can break into smaller groups after full class work.

 

[torinsmom]

Well I have a 1st grader and tonight we had 2 stories to read... they were about 10 pages each, no math tonght (we did have math last night) a english paper we had to do, he has 10 spelling words a week. No spelling homework tonight but the words are in the stories we read... his words are yet, web, pen, wet, leg, hen, ten, bed, they, walk. My dd who is in 3rd has 18 words a week I'm going to be honest... I dont do anything with her homework.. I have checked her grades and she has straight 100's in everything so far. She's a smarty pants and can handle it herself... she would be an awesome kid to unschool but she would hate being home with me... she loves school. LOVES it...

The kids in our school do well with very little homework, except a book to read each night. The only time they have homework is if they do not finish their assigned work at school. It's a public school, but it's a Montessori magnet. My son was in a Montessori charter school until high school and didn't have homework until middle school. He always did well. They start it in the middle school to get the kids ready for high school.

No, I'm not the teacher, but I do volunteer 1-2 days a week in the morning. I check folders, make copies, laminate things, help with reading groups, etc. Last year, the teacher had a full time and a part time assistant last year(DS had her last year, DD does this year); this year she only has a part time assistant for 1.5 hrs a day.

IMO, involvement in the child's education should at the very least be checking folders/homework, at least at the elementary level. By high school, most kids can be pretty independent WRT homework, I think. Beyond that, I think that, barring extreme cases, parents should be providing reading material and helping with any subjects the student is struggling in. And I think parents, as much as possible, should be teaching life skills. I think that without proactive parents, public school can fail individuals as much as unschooling. I also provide tons of enrichment for my kids, but I'm fortunate to have the resources to do that.

I think as a society we don't support families and parents, which in turn means we're undermining anything we try to do to improve education. We can throw money at it all day long, but unless we fix how we value and perceive education and look at what can help education, nothing will change. I do think it's sad. I mean, technology is great, but buying smart boards for the elementary school while cutting assistants doesn't seem in the students best interests to me. It makes it pretty darn hard to do small group work with only one adult and a room full of 20ish 6 year olds, and it's easier to meet individual needs if they can break into smaller groups after full class work.

ITA with your post, especially the bolded. Our district is buying SmartBoards for all the classrooms and an IPAD cart for the kids. All 4 of the teachers(me included) who teach 4-5 year olds have said we don't want the Smart Boards. Because we give individual and small group lessons in Montessori, we feel it will be very distracting to those not in the lesson. Besides, it isn't hands on. We don't have a choice. It's not like we aren't teaching technology--we have computers for the kids to use.

And cool, IPADS! But at the same time the district is cutting assistants in the classroom above kindergarten. Our principal had to reallocate money to keep ours. We have multi-age classrooms, and it is impossible for one teacher to effectively teach AND manage the classroom with 27-30 kids.

Parent involvement is integral. We send home a book each night for the child to read to his/her parent(or for them to read together). If a child is working on sight words, we also send those home for the parent to go over 1-2 times at night. The kids whose parents do these things progress faster than those who don't. I have been told that teaching is my job, not the parent's, but it is a team effort. If you leave it all to the teacher, your child will not be as far along at the end of the year. Public education is free, but you need to support it in other ways besides money.

 

[Momvic5]

I am a little ashamed to ask this, but did anyone watch Wife Swap last night? My dd12 loves to watch Dance Moms and after last night's episode, Wife Swap came on - it featured an unschooling mom and her family! I was curious so I watched it. Sadly, this family was exactly what most of us imagine when thinking of an unschooling family.

A few pages back, I mentioned a family that I know who claims to unschool their children, and like I mentioned, they actually do not do any school with their children. They just use the term 'unschooling' to defend their very different lifestyle. From my observation of the family I know and watching the family on Wife Swap, these people are very different altogether. Their choice of education or their lack of it falls in line with their lifestyle. There is no structure or routine in the home. They live very isolated and have little to no friends. Personal hygiene is neglected. Socially, they(the parents) can not functon, and in the case of the family I know, they are both public school and university graduates. They do not know personal boundaries and love shock value statements. Like I stated earlier, this particular family failed their children even when they were in public school. Due to truancy and neglect, the children were held back a year, and eventually, the school turned them in to authorities on the basis of neglect. In order to hide, this family moved to another citiy and started 'unschooling'. The family featured on Wife Swap was not even close to the extreme family that I shared about, but they had very similiar lifestyles and ideals. In no way am I saying that all unschooling families are neglecting and failing their children. I am just saying that sometimes the terms 'unschooling' and 'homeschooling' are used by some to defend or allow certain lifestyles. It is frustrating to true unschoolers and homeschoolers because these are the type of extreme families that form the opinions of many who are unfamiliar with unschooling and homeschooling. It is frustrating.

 

[npmommie]

It is frustrating to true unschoolers and homeschoolers because these are the type of extreme families that form the opinions of many who are unfamiliar with unschooling and homeschooling. It is frustrating.

I completely agree with this.
It IS frustrating.
true unschooling ( the correct way ) is harder in my opinion than using curriculum and following a program.