Any Unschoolers here who ditched that method?

[knitster]

I said "if".

Really? I answer all of your questions (read:attacks) concisely and accurately and all you manage to reply with is "I said 'if'"?!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It seems pretty drastic to me that you would uproot your entire family, have your husband transfer his job and move to a whole other state just to keep from having to be accountable for your child's education. Just to PROVE you are homeschooling your kids.

HOWEVER you kind of answered why in your own response. You said yourself your kids are FAR BEHIND public schools in some areas so in actuality your kids probably wouldn't pass the standardized testing would they? Then the consequences for that is you have to put your kids back in school. I can see the need for such desperate measures.

Oh my goodness--she didn't say that.

I take it she is teaching history CHRONOLOGICALLY. That means she started in the beginning and will carry the kids through. Her kids will do poorly on the assessment for history (possibly--they may have picked up stuff on their own here and there), because public schools teach history broadly over several centuries (beginning with the Vikings and hitting Jamestown through Washington in general terms). There is no in depth study. It is 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue, Squanto and the Pilgrams John Smith and Jamestown and Pochahontas, and some colonization until we hit the "important Americans" phase with George, Thomas, Ben and then suddenly Lincoln. (Well, that is our 3rd grade year anyway.)

So no--here child is NOT behind. Her child is just studying something different. And that is okay. It is silly that you would consider her children behind because she chose to teach history in a perfectly valid way (in line with the Classical Method of education).

There is no consequences by the way. Even states with standardized test mandates look at an overall stanine for the test as a whole. 1 or two deficient sections would not be enough to consider the child behind.

It is quite humorous to think she is failing her kids and that the law needs to intervene because they studied Ancient Egypt in 1st grade. How dare she actually teach....HISTORY.

 

[knitster]

Oh my goodness--she didn't say that.

I take it she is teaching history CHRONOLOGICALLY. That means she started in the beginning and will carry the kids through. Her kids will do poorly on the assessment for history (possibly--they may have picked up stuff on their own here and there), because public schools teach history broadly over several centuries (beginning with the Vikings and hitting Jamestown through Washington in general terms). There is no in depth study. It is 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue, Squanto and the Pilgrams John Smith and Jamestown and Pochahontas, and some colonization until we hit the "important Americans" phase with George, Thomas, Ben and then suddenly Lincoln. (Well, that is our 3rd grade year anyway.)

So no--here child is NOT behind. Her child is just studying something different. And that is okay. It is silly that you would consider her children behind because she chose to teach history in a perfectly valid way (in line with the Classical Method of education).

There is no consequences by the way. Even states with standardized test mandates look at an overall stanine for the test as a whole. 1 or two deficient sections would not be enough to consider the child behind.

It is quite humorous to think she is failing her kids and that the law needs to intervene because they studied Ancient Egypt in 1st grade. How dare she actually teach....HISTORY.

LOL thank you, that is exactly what I was saying. Heaven forbid my kids know more about Egypt and Greece than they do about Abe Lincoln!

I have noticed, however, that all of the angry attackers just seem to drop out of the conversation when presented with a logical answer such as the one you just gave, so I don't expect to see any "Oh, that makes sense. Never mind, you're not neglecting your kids. Carry on." posts anytime soon.

 

[DisneyLoverUSA]

Oh my goodness--she didn't say that.

I take it she is teaching history CHRONOLOGICALLY. That means she started in the beginning and will carry the kids through. Her kids will do poorly on the assessment for history (possibly--they may have picked up stuff on their own here and there), because public schools teach history broadly over several centuries (beginning with the Vikings and hitting Jamestown through Washington in general terms). There is no in depth study. It is 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue, Squanto and the Pilgrams John Smith and Jamestown and Pochahontas, and some colonization until we hit the "important Americans" phase with George, Thomas, Ben and then suddenly Lincoln. (Well, that is our 3rd grade year anyway.)

So no--here child is NOT behind. Her child is just studying something different. And that is okay. It is silly that you would consider her children behind because she chose to teach history in a perfectly valid way (in line with the Classical Method of education).

There is no consequences by the way. Even states with standardized test mandates look at an overall stanine for the test as a whole. 1 or two deficient sections would not be enough to consider the child behind.

It is quite humorous to think she is failing her kids and that the law needs to intervene because they studied Ancient Egypt in 1st grade. How dare she actually teach....HISTORY.

Actually SHE DID say exactly that. You might want to read back through her post. Her words I bolded, not mine.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

THANK YOU! Exactly!! I'm a big fan of my civil liberties.

Also, the 180 days in Texas is only mandated for public schools, not homeschoolers.

Whew! I misread that.

I know some states have minimum attendance and some go further to dictate what counts as a school day. That is just way too much oversight. Teaching one kid does not require the same amount of clock or calendar time as a group of 20-30 kids.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Actually SHE DID say exactly that. You might want to read back through her post. Her words I bolded, not mine.

FAR BEHIND was her saying she was 1000 or so years behind.

Play on words, anyone?

 

[knitster]

Actually SHE DID say exactly that. You might want to read back through her post. Her words I bolded, not mine.

You're right, I did say that my kids were far behind in some areas, and then I immediately clarified that by explaining that they're learning history on a different time line than the public school model. But you conveniently chose to ignore that part of my statement.

 

[knitster]

FAR BEHIND was her saying she was 1000 or so years behind.

Play on words, anyone?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Is it you or your kids that have test anxiety?

How would you like your kids to function when they are in college and Mommy isn't there to keep tests away from them?

How do you think your kids will react in the future when there isn't special accommodations made for them?

If your home schooling is just about avoiding testing you are setting them up for failure.

Except for the SAT/ACT...there really are no "standardized" tests in college. Though I did take the CLAST--but I don't recall exactly what it was as it was intended for the first 2 years of college. I took it the first semester to get it out of the way.

Some kids are just poor test standardized test takers. My cousin was one. She is extremely bright and intelligent but freezes up. She went on to a double major in college and is quite the successful businesswoman for the Walt Disney World company.

And again--many do just fine come SAT time without years of taking state bubble tests.

I am the opposite, I tell my kids to treat it like a fun game. Thus far, none of mine have test anxiety and actually look forward to testing days. I consider them very very weird. I was the same in school. It was like a school version of Jeopardy or Trivial Pursuit.

But again with the generalizations. Why do you keep doing that?

 

[knitster]

Whew! I misread that.

I know some states have minimum attendance and some go further to dictate what counts as a school day. That is just way too much oversight. Teaching one kid does not require the same amount of clock or calendar time as a group of 20-30 kids.

Yep, there are quite a few states that require a certain amount of teaching days. So ridiculous. My kids managed to go through 9 months of my bed ridden pregnancy, wherein I was too sick to open my eyes on some days, and came out the other end of it with very, very, very few formal schooling days and both of them were one grade level higher in reading than they were when the pregnancy started and neither of them are behind where they "should" be at all. We were caught up on all other subjects within 3 months after the baby was born, because it simply does not take that long to teach one or two kids!

 

[SaraJayne]

LOL thank you, that is exactly what I was saying. Heaven forbid my kids know more about Egypt and Greece than they do about Abe Lincoln!

I have noticed, however, that all of the angry attackers just seem to drop out of the conversation when presented with a logical answer such as the one you just gave, so I don't expect to see any "Oh, that makes sense. Never mind, you're not neglecting your kids. Carry on." posts anytime soon.

Nope, I'm just busy with real life.

You will never convince me it's a good thing some homeschooled children are not held to any standards (ie accountability for the parents).

 

[knitster]

Nope, I'm just busy with real life.

You will never convince me it's a good thing some homeschooled children are not held to any standards (ie accountability for the parents).

That's ok, I'm not trying to convince you, just trying to defend myself against the onslaught of nonsense that was hurled at me the moment I mentioned that I enjoy living in a hands off state.

 

[Buckalew11]

It looks to me like people think standardized tests are the be all end all for seeing what a child is learning in school.

Teachers teach the tests. They have to cover what is on that test for each grade because otherwise their students would not pass with high enough scores, they'd look bad, their school would look bad and on and on it'd go.

Just because a parent chooses to teach other things or in different order than a state test does not mean they won't be covering the material at a different time.

I think it is important for kids to learn to take tests with bubbles to fill because that's life in education. I use an umbrella school to homeschool that requires me to test every year. Personally, I have no issue with it because they do not the TN T-CAP test. They use a standardized test and then in HS they use ACT or SAT to fulfill the requirement.
People who do not want to test their kids yearly chose not to homeschool under my umbrella school.

This thread is about uncaring parents who homeschool/unschool their kids and slack off in the worst way possible--not about caring homeschooling parents who are teaching their kids correctly so the kids can get into college or go on to be productive people.

 

[SaraJayne]

Aisling's friend (the reason for the OP) is a great example why there needs to be standards and accountability.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Yep, there are quite a few states that require a certain amount of teaching days. So ridiculous. My kids managed to go through 9 months of my bed ridden pregnancy, wherein I was too sick to open my eyes on some days, and came out the other end of it with very, very, very few formal schooling days and both of them were one grade level higher in reading than they were when the pregnancy started and neither of them are behind where they "should" be at all. We were caught up on all other subjects within 3 months after the baby was born, because it simply does not take that long to teach one or two kids!

Lucky you...

Dare I say--we were BEHIND! Our school year took more than a year--however, they do take standardized tests and the test results didn't seem to notice. We completed the school year in September with all of the interruptions and....dropped some stuff. (Yes, I know--evil evil homeschooling mommy...but again, they took the tests for their grade and came out unbruised!) Items that were dropped were dropped because we would be going over them AGAIN in the following grade.

We finally finished this last school year in July to only start the school year again in August. My 6th grader did not even begin Civil War last year. We spent quite a bit of time on the American Revolution. So this year, we took the Civil War portion and spread it out over her 6th grade year. So on her days where she isn't working on her 6th grade history (Ancient Egypt), we are covering the Civil War. The reason I did this is that we won't touch it again until High School if I didn't do that and living in Virginia, I thought it would be a good idea to cover it.

Other than the Civil War, the delays caused by my pregnancy illnesses are finally over and we are no worse for the wear. It took less than 2 years total to do that--but that covers the 2 grades that were affected and they are in the proper grade levels they would have been in without the delay. (We are not really a grade skipping family.)

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Aisling's friend (the reason for the OP) is a great example why there needs to be standards and accountability.

With that logic--all the obese kids are a good reason why the government needs to hold SaraJayne accountable for what her kids eat.

 

[SaraJayne]

With that logic--all the obese kids are a good reason why the government needs to hold SaraJayne accountable for what her kids eat.

So you don't believe there should be standards for education?

 

[knitster]

Lucky you...

Dare I say--we were BEHIND! Our school year took more than a year--however, they do take standardized tests and the test results didn't seem to notice. We completed the school year in September with all of the interruptions and....dropped some stuff. (Yes, I know--evil evil homeschooling mommy...but again, they took the tests for their grade and came out unbruised!) Items that were dropped were dropped because we would be going over them AGAIN in the following grade.

We finally finished this last school year in July to only start the school year again in August. My 6th grader did not even begin Civil War last year. We spent quite a bit of time on the American Revolution. So this year, we took the Civil War portion and spread it out over her 6th grade year. So on her days where she isn't working on her 6th grade history (Ancient Egypt), we are covering the Civil War. The reason I did this is that we won't touch it again until High School if I didn't do that and living in Virginia, I thought it would be a good idea to cover it.

Other than the Civil War, the delays caused by my pregnancy illnesses are finally over and we are no worse for the wear. It took less than 2 years total to do that--but that covers the 2 grades that were affected and they are in the proper grade levels they would have been in without the delay. (We are not really a grade skipping family.)

It only happened because Daddy was working from home during that time in our lives and - though he didn't have time to 'do school' - he did have time to make sure they were reading and being read to. That's the only reason they came out ahead on the reading curve! My son, however, was behind in everything else because, obviously, he hadn't done anything else. So we took 3 months to catch up, then schooled straight through for the next entire year (taking small breaks, but not big ones) and that's how we caught up to where we 'should' be.

But just as you post illustrated - it's OK to have interruptions in homeschooling - even HUGE interruptions - because you can catch up at your leisure because you have all day every day to do it!

With that logic--all the obese kids are a good reason why the government needs to hold SaraJayne accountable for what her kids eat.

Exactly.

 

[Disney Doll]

I was looking for the "horror stories" of children growing up with no real education except in what THEY wanted to do, even if all they wanted to do was play video games and draw. But I have to say what you wrote here is at least encouraging. Maybe her kids ha s a chance afterall?



She reads to them every day, they go to the library and the kids choose the books, but the oldest isn't interested in even being read to anymore. He says it's "dumb". I've asked him doesn't he want to learn to read so that he can read the instructions on his erector sets etc, and he says they come with picture instructions.

She's a good mom in that she gives them tons of attention, but when they want to watch TV for hours all day and draw, she backs off because they need to do what they need to do.




She has always taken them to educational places, museums, Urban wildlife walks, things like that. Every Sunday our local newspaper has things to do with the kids and she does get them out and involved.

No learning disabilities as I can see. Just kids that know they are in charge. The home environment is getting tense because dad is really getting fed up as his kids get older. She has tons of very creative puzzles but will let the kids take them all out at the same time to make their own creating, because that's what they want to do and No is an unhealthy word to her when it comes to her children exploring their own desires and needs. (except in dangerous things).

I admire her for her efforts, and it was sort of working when the kids were smaller, but now it looks like the kids just want to laze around with the brief ooh blue whales are cool, what do they eat" kind of thing. She says in their own time they'll learn what they personally NEED to learn and not what society wants them to learn. She sounds kooky, but she's not, really. She does get them excited about some really cool programs on National Geographic channel, but the kids can't do multiplication. (YET, she says.)





Guidelines are for safety reasons only in their house. And absolutely no spoken expectations , which can be harmful to the kids feelings. Of course she has hopes for them, but not expectations. We should never expect anything from anyone, even from our kids. This is her strong belief.

The fork thing, funny because when the older boy was maybe 6 or 7 we were in a diner and he started to comb his hair with the fork.

Anyway, she's a good woman, smart, loves her kids to pieces and is providing a stimulating environment. But they kids are starting to reject it for TV, craft projects and learning only about what interests them. They do know the alphabet song, though. I know they can identify letters but she's totally against phonics because it's "teaching" them. She's 100% sure that they'll just pick up reading when they're ready.

I'm hoping that people who have used this philosophy unsuccessfully will come forward and tell me their stories. Unless maybe all these kids really do grow up and get jobs and learn to read on their own and do math on their own?? I'm the one who could be wrong, I guess, but I don't know anyone who has Unschooled kids up to high school age. Do these children really, truly learn enough on their own without being "taught"?

One last thing, my dear friend and I have a long and warm relationship. We can really talk things out without hurting each other. She has taught me a lot. I just need some substance if I'm going to discuss the negatives with her.

Wow that was long!

Read what you wrote. This woman is an idiot. She is harming her children.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

So you don't believe there should be standards for education?

Didn't say that.

Parents should have the freedom to choose. For example--if they wish to teach history chronologically, teach multiplication all together in one grade and division all together in the next grade, teach basic elementary level chemistry in elementary school and study zoology in 6th grade...

They should be able to do so.

The so called "standards" you are talking about, would force parents to comply with teaching specific subjects and portions of those subjects at a specific time. Many states want homeschooling to be public school at home.

It is like saying you must feed your child green beans and carrots to comply with the state's vegetable requirement.

There is no need to be that specific with homeschool laws and a person such as the OP's friend is not an adequate justification for removing the freedoms other parents enjoy who are actually educating their children successfully.

ETA: I like Florida's OPTION that allows a student to be assessed by a certified teacher to make sure the student is progressing commensurate to his or her abilities. I was able to get honest assessments of my children and helpful hints as well as being educated on when my student might be deficient and when she was really not deficient.