any one else with an unruly 5 yr old?

[tiggereyore]

DS #1 is not the child he has been these last 10 weeks. He is usually the one to settle fights not start them. But since starting kindergarden he's done a 360. He went to pre-k in the school system last yr but he was no problem. Now he has the equivalent of 6 F's on his report card and I'm being told he needs to learn to keep his hands to himself. He is no longer allowed to sit with 1 child on his bus because they cause problems. this child along with 1 other in his class he seems to be holding on a pedistal and they are all he talks about but yet when I talk with his teacher she's telling me he's the trouble maker not these other 2. Yesterday on the bus he wacked a little girl who's only been in his class 3 days. Told the teacher it was an accident so she said okay but anymore problems and she was calling me. His response was go ahead. This am when I had him at the bus stop he was standing behind me in the back seat and wacked me on the back of the head when I asked him why he said he didn't know. Then He did it again I felt like clobbering him. He's not listening to anyone, seems to be angry with the world. I'm getting him in with the guidence counseler at school but she says to me that what is told to her stays with her and made me feel like they were looking for abuse so now I'm scared to even punish the child least he tell her I wacked his butt or put him in the corner.
Any one have any suggestions? I'm at a loss.
Thanks for letting me vent.

 

[snoopy]

Perhaps he is not ready for kindergarden yet? Sometimes boys need an additional year to adjust to the structured setting of school.

I also think its ridiculous that the guidance counselor can not discuss what your 5-year old says to her. This is a small child, his parent needs to be privvy to what is going on in his little mind.

I wish I had more advice for you, but I'm sure other people here will. Good luck.

 

[crisi]

Try a privledges ladder...At the bottom of the ladder his has no or few privledges - he can't go outside, or play video games, or go to Little League or play with his Pokeman cards (whatever).

On the next rung of the ladder add a privledge or two.

And so on - about ten steps.

At each step up, he gets to do all the things below him on the ladder. So at the top of the ladder, he can play with his Gameboy, ride his bike, stay up until 9:00 instead of 8:30 (whatever motivates him).

Put a marker at the top of the ladder. If you hear about or experience misbehavior, he moves down the ladder. When he has good days with no misbehavior he moves back up.

(Should the counselor call Social Services, the social worker will be just fine with this method of discipline).

 

[tiggereyore]

Thank you both.

snoopy I had thought that too, but his test and everything else is fine he is just choosing not to listen and behave properly in the school situation and home. In public anyone who met him would think I was nuts. If it doesn't intrest him he turns off.Even the teacher was shocked about the GC not talking to me.

crisi we've tried that just not structed. He doesn't seem to care. He's lost recess at school 4 times in the last month and he could care less. I've taken away his computer, and videos next thing he's loosing is he "hunting" time with daddy. But It seems the more I take away the worse he gets.

 

[believe]

DD is in kindergarten this year and has started hitting for no reason, lucky no one in school. She has started saying things like "I don't love you" and if you threaten her she says she will do the same thing back to you. I find that she does most of these things when she is tired. Kindergarten is a change for her. She went to preschool but only 3 days a week for 3 hrs each day. She does get privileges taken away, but can earn them back quicker if she is on extra good behavior. Example: Gameboy taken way for 3 days. If the next day she has not had to be disciplined in any way then she earns a day back and really only loses the Gameboy for 2 days. This has worked for her because it helps her realized that it is good behavior that will be rewarded.

 

[ripleysmom]

First of all, You might want to educate your guidance counselor about a little law called FERPA.

http://www.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html

It means that you are entitled to see any and all educationally related records that your school district might have. That includes conversations with your school's guidance counselor.

Secondly, perhaps you should consider looking for a family therapist in your area. They have training in techniques to get a child to open up and if there is some problem with the family dynamic at home they can assist you with it.

I hope this helps and good luck!

 

[nativetxn]

It has been 23 years since I had an unruly 5 year old, so I'm not going to offer advice, just a {{{HUG}}}. I know this is a disturbing time for you. I hope the counselor can help you figure out what is going on with your son.

Katholyn

 

[RNMOM]

From my own personal exprience with DS#2, not all teachers can handle all children. Is it possible he is exhibiting this acting out as he is being put in a place he can not deal with? I agree, a family counselor is in order.

Children this age will sometimes act out when in fact they are depressed or frightened. I think this whole school situation needs looking into carefully. Maybe a change of schools is in order....it helped a great deal for us and I wish I had done it sooner.

His acting out against you may be his way of asking for help. He doesn't know any other way to deal with what is going on with him. Yes, he may be showing signs of ADHD but maybe it is something else entirely.

Use the rewards technique above as it will help him understand the impact his behavior is having but get him help soon. Good luck and let us know how things are going.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I have a Kindergartener. And while we are not having any of these problems, I really wanted to let you know my thoughts.

If I started seeing such an instant and drastic change in behavior in DS, while there was NO change in his home-life situation.... And it seemed to be brought on by, and related to, Kindergarten. Then, Kindergarten would be my first concern. I know that DS had to adjust, and is still not comfortable with the level of 'Independance' required by his school... But, from what you have written, it sounds like there may be a more serious issue going on? I just do not think that the 'Getting used to Kindergarten' stuff alone is all there is to it. Especially since your DS has been in PreK, and has not exhibited these problems before now.....

Also, if I had been in discussions with the school counselor, and the counselor was refusing to share every single thing with me... then this would also be by next big concern. I am sitting here wondering just what is the counselor trying to hide? If nothing is going 'wrong' at home to bring on this behavior, then I would be assuming that something was indeed going wrong at school ! Particularly in his classroom.... or with his Teacher...

If you feel it is important or necessary, would you consider taking your DS to a private outside child-psychologist... They know how to get the child to open up... with role-play, drawings, open discussions, etc... Sometimes kids are reluctant to open up, even to their own parents.

HUGS!!!! Hope it all works itself out, as these things often do!

 

[RitaZ.]

You have received good advice from the other posters. The incident with the guidance counselor is one of the reasons why I feel that it's not always a good idea to use the free services that the schools offer. I realize that it's not always feasible for parents to seek private help. Again, this is my personal opinion.

I don't know your DS, but as Snoopy said, it could be that he may be too young for K. Even when kids are academically ready for it, they sometimes lack the social and emotional skills to handle the demands. That's not to say that your DS is delayed in any way, every kid blossoms at their own rate. Is it possible for you to volunteer in your DS's class? This way you get to see how he behaves and it could also be good for him.

Hang in there, it will get better. Good luck to you!

 

[CEDmom]

I agree with the other poster that it could be the whole kindergarten setting at that school in that classroom. DD had a little boy in her pre-school class last year who was well behaved and no real problems. This year his parents moved him to Catholic school and after about 6 weeks he was asked to leave because of extreme discipline problems. He's back at DD's school in her class and his old personality is quickly returning.

I know this is probably a dumb question, but what does your DS say when you ask him whether he likes school and how things are going?

 

[kermittheturtle]

My youngest DS age 6 is in Kindergarten also. We don't have any problems but I volenteer in his class every Monday so I get to see first hand what goes on. There is one particular boy that misbehaves quite abit and the teacher has like a points system (he gets a point for good behavior/loses points for bad behavior) and at the end of the week if he has enough points,he gets to choose an activity. He chose to go to the gym and play Red Rover. He was so excited. The other kids were really excited as well. He was very proud of himself. She has noticed a very big improvement from the beginning of the year but it has taken awhile she said. I would also recommend volenteering in his class if possible, that way you can maybe get some insight about your sons sudden change.

Kermit

 

[The Mystery Machine]

My first thought is his friend situation. Does he have friends in the classroom? You say he is being isolated on the bus too?
He talks about the 1 boy one the bus as his friend? And this boy is not. Sounds like a awful anxiety filled situation for your son.

I hope you can get to the bottom of it!

 

[Wishing on a star]

A couple more thoughts.... You mention 6 'F's on your DS report card. I do not know about all other schools, but here, on DS report card, for little Kindergarteners, they get a simple rating like 'S'atisfactory 'N'eeds work or 'U'nsatisfactory... The fact that Kindergarteners are being graded like that kind of sticks out to me as possibly being very demanding? I know that on DS very first report card, they were tested on basic things, Letter identification, tracing and writing ability, etc.... My son got a 'U'nsatisfactory on things such as identifying basic shapes, like a square, when he has known most all of these shapes since he was two! I had to look at his test, and talk to his teacher.... and finally determined that the problem was NOT that he does not know what a square is (of course I knew that!) but that his teacher is very layed back, and is not giving strong and clear enough directives! I am rembering that you mentioned that your DS has been in PreK, and has been tested, and all shows fine....

I do know that if my DS were constantly being made aware that he was not measuring up, due to no real fault of his own, but due to other exterior issues like the one I just described... And then the pressure was put on him to perform... He too would just immediatley 'shut down' and get bad marks... My DS can be easily frustrated and may possibly also resort to lashing out with unnacceptable behavior. I would definately be interested in getting to the root of the problem.

Also, just asking "How was your day....." or "Do you like Kindergarten...." Most kids will simply give the standard positive or neutral answer. Like "Okay..." or "Pretty good..." By nature they hate to admit that something may be wrong. They will cover. And, at this age, may not understand how to tell you what is troubling them.

As far as friends... Peer pressure is HUGE... There will always be that couple of outgoing kids that the other kids want to be friends with. Possibly the ones your DS is talking about. They can either be outgoing good kids or bad kids.... I know that my DS came home talking about how he and one kid were kind of ganging up on another kid named Andrew while playing on the playground. (nothing truly bad, just 5 year old games....) I eventually got around to asking him, "Now, your not being mean to Andrew are you? You will get sent to the Principals office..." eventually followed by, "I do not know if this other boy sounds like he is being nice...." And sure enough, a few days later, I was hearing about how my DS and Andrew were playing and were friends.... The other kid had been starting all the negative play. It just took DS a while to figure it all out. Tough stuff for a five year old!!!!

Ahhhh, parenting.... the toughest job we'll ever love!!!

 

[tiggereyore]

I'm printing this all out and will be talking with his dr either tom or monday, to find a recommended therapist for his age. I'm tending to believe that it's some peer presure, anxiety and frustration. He's hitting at home and screeching but when asked to do his letters or practice "homework" (in quotes because it's not assigned they send home extra letter pages for the kids who want to do them) and he does it no goofing. His teacher is excellent and has been in the school for yrs. and the paraprofessional is my DH 2nd cousin. I have spent time in the class as has Dh and done feild trips with them and these two boys I'll call I and W are "hyper" bouncy don't always listen but then have heard it because they are done distracting the others by that time. And they're good at what they do.
Ripleysmom Thanks for the web site I will bring that up to the counselor.
Katholyn Thanks for the hugs DH and I need them we never expected this of him our younger one is the one to look out for
RNMOM I'm beginning to feel that he is scared of these 2 boys. Although the teacher says that DS starts the trouble with I on the bus I have a feeling that he's doing it back and getting caught. I know he's not an angel but I have a hard time swallowing that it's all him. I wish I had a crystal ball to figure out what he needs help with.
Wishing on a star He's met with the counselor once and will meet with her next week I'm really hoping with the breaks coming up and being away from I and W he'll settle down and say something . He's always been very slow to say what's bugging him but I figured by now it would have come out. and thanks for the hug. The report card F's are actually- signs but rather than explain it all I reverted to abcdf.
RitaZ. I too don't like to count on the free services but have to start there for ins reasons. they wont cover unless you've tried it. I think emotionally if he's being picked on or singled out this could be the problem. Just a matter of time. 'til then I'll be hanging from that maple tree.
CEDmom I think the change in class could be part of it he's best buddies from preK are in the pm class and he's am unfortunatley I can't get him changed because the pm class has more kids. He says he likes it. I'll ask the teacher about a rewards for good stuff in school I'll be talking to her next week unless something else happens. they don't do parent volunteers but have room mothers for field trips and parties so I do that and try to spend time with him alone each day. Any one else? Thank you all

 

[klmklm]

re: how to get a child to talk about how school is going: I found this worked best: ask very specific and off-beat questions. Like, who had on the strangest shoes today? Who is the tallest person in your class? What was the silliest thing that happened today? These did not strike my kids as prying questions, they could answer them simply and factually, without sharing their feelings. But, in answering my silly questions, they often decided they wanted to tell me a lot more.

 

[tiggereyore]

It turns out that he isn't hearing us.

His school hearing test is Sept. he failed his right ear, then last week they redid the tests and he failed both ears. This all came about when he wacked his MeMe and then said that he couldn't hear her and was frustrated. So I called the school knowing that they had done the test to find out the results and since we have 2 nurses Jan thought the other had already talked with me since she was the one who did the test. Mean while if I haven't lost you yet.........I've made an apt with his Dr for tomorrow to get a referral to hopefully Ear nose and throat, because on top of all this he has really bad allergies and speach problems like his dad did. The only difference in him and his dad is dad had lots of ear infections and he's only had 1 confrimed one but always complains his ears hurt. I have brought him countless times for nothing. so I'd give him some motrin and put him to bed. So on to tomorrow and see where it leads us.
Any prayers and pd would be wonderful I'm already scaring myself about surgery.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Tigger.... (I had posted earlier on your thread....)

WOW! You and your DS have my thoughts and prayers!

It sounds like you really are getting to the root of your DS frustrations.... Good luck with treating your DS ears and his hearing! I hope that everything will turn out just fine!