Any idea when we can buy WDW annual passes?

[BTDTGB]

Let's just stop and look at this logically for a moment. An AP is $900 for a FL resident. Assume they go twice a month, that is $37 per trip to the park(excluding parking). Now assume they are bringing in food or dining before entering/leaving the park. At that point, it is literally not worth Disney's time to accommodate that customer. To have that guest taking up parking and walking around the park and filling lines and taking parade/firework spots up. I can't believe anyone here would deny that? $37 per visit to accommodate that person is LOSING money essentially for every single one of those people.

Now compare that to someone who pays full ticket price. 5 day park hoppers and eats AND stays on site in resort. I believe they would make up that entire AP in a single day and then do it again the very next day with a new guest.

If they can fill the parks with non-AP's just the same as they could WITH AP's? How in the world can you possibly make the argument for them to keep it? It makes zero sense at all and I can't understand why anyone would even present the other side of argument that they will keep it.

When AP's came out they had nothing. They had space mountain. The parks are now 3 times the size, fully digitized and efficient, they own Marvel, Pixar, Star Wars, and Fox. Also, they have just STARTED to exploit the Marvel brands in the parks. I am sure their 10-20 year projections for attractions makes it very very clear they do not need AP's at all to fill the parks to the brim every single day of the year. This was inevitable.

If AP's were 3k a year, they would still be stupid and not worth it to disney. So imagine what they think of that $900.

What Disney really needs to do is raise the cost of local annual passes considerably or stop selling local AP's all together. The original idea of the annual pass was to fill the parks during off peak times. Hence the blackout days for local AP’s. There really is no longer a period of time where the parks are truly slow. With the Food and Wine, Flower and Garden, Artist festivals along with free dining Disney has eliminated or greatly mitigated the off periods. Many out of state visitors take their kids out of school to take advantage of the festivals and free dining offer. Further eliminating the need for locals to spend money at the parks. And like you point out the locals really don’t spend much money as they eat before they get there and often times bring food in or go to their car for food.



The passholder customer that Disney should chase are the ones that live out of state. We live 700 miles away and until COVID had annual passes. Unlike locals we stayed on grounds when we visit. Eat most of our meals on property. We have a car when there and like to eat at other local places off site, but at least 65% of our food budget is spent on Disney property. We don't buy as many souvenirs as occasional visitors, but by purchasing annual passes we have committed to spending most of our vacation dollars, normally 3 weeks a year, at Disney. Since we are also empty nesters we typically go during nonpeak seasons. We do take advantage of the discounts offered to annual passholders for hotels and food, but what that really amounts to is we stay at nicer places and eat better food for the same cost of less expensive options. I do think Disney can and does make money off annual passholders, just not the local ones.

 

[whiteness]

The passholder customer that Disney should chase are the ones that live out of state.

This AP sales embargo has a way of pitting different groups against each other. FYI, I used to live minutes from the DLR, and we spent a bunch of money in the parks when we were APs.

But, yeah, some people really did bring picnics into the park. My family once had to endure waiting over an hour for a parade next to an extended family that had spread a beach blanket on the sidewalk, and were boisterously enjoying all kinds of pungent delicacies out of tupperware containers.

They had quite a system worked out, actually: they apparently dropped off an older family member with the blanket to reserve the spot (she was there when we got there.) Then, at some point, others arrived with baby carriages loaded up with food (and a couple of babies, to be fair), and started unpacking everything. Finally, the rest of the family arrived and they started digging in. One could almost imagine that was a frequent thing, and the parade, itself, was just the cherry on top rather than the goal.

The AP program had allowed some local guests to treat the parks like...their local parks. Because that's what you do at your local park, right? Someone in your group reserves a spot for the family, others bring the food, then they all show up and enjoy a picnic/party. If you're lucky, there might be entertainment provided. Some rides for the kiddies, etc. For $XX per month, your family got a membership in the best, most amazing local park ever. And, since you've already paid whether you use it or not, better use it as often as possible to justify the expense.

The above true story was an extreme example, but I can tell you that it was the norm to see families reserving space with blankets, and not at all unusual to see people clearly eating outside food throughout the park.

Yes, knowledgeable AP holders aggressively snapping up prime viewing space night after night does somewhat lessen the experience for casual guests who might be spending relatively more money per visit. And I can see why Disney might prefer that more higher spending guests were admitted than lower spending ones. From what I've seen and heard, things hadn't gotten to that point in Disney World. But I can see why Disney might not be keen to continue selling APs on the West Coast.

 

[New Mouse]

This AP sales embargo has a way of pitting different groups against each other. FYI, I used to live minutes from the DLR, and we spent a bunch of money in the parks when we were APs.

But, yeah, some people really did bring picnics into the park. My family once had to endure waiting over an hour for a parade next to an extended family that had spread a beach blanket on the sidewalk, and were boisterously enjoying all kinds of pungent delicacies out of tupperware containers.

They had quite a system worked out, actually: they apparently dropped off an older family member with the blanket to reserve the spot (she was there when we got there.) Then, at some point, others arrived with baby carriages loaded up with food (and a couple of babies, to be fair), and started unpacking everything. Finally, the rest of the family arrived and they started digging in. One could almost imagine that was a frequent thing, and the parade, itself, was just the cherry on top rather than the goal.

The AP program had allowed some local guests to treat the parks like...their local parks. Because that's what you do at your local park, right? Someone in your group reserves a spot for the family, others bring the food, then they all show up and enjoy a picnic/party. If you're lucky, there might be entertainment provided. Some rides for the kiddies, etc. For $XX per month, your family got a membership in the best, most amazing local park ever. And, since you've already paid whether you use it or not, better use it as often as possible to justify the expense.

The above true story was an extreme example, but I can tell you that it was the norm to see families reserving space with blankets, and not at all unusual to see people clearly eating outside food throughout the park.

Yes, knowledgeable AP holders aggressively snapping up prime viewing space night after night does somewhat lessen the experience for casual guests who might be spending relatively more money per visit. And I can see why Disney might prefer that more higher spending guests were admitted than lower spending ones. From what I've seen and heard, things hadn't gotten to that point in Disney World. But I can see why Disney might not be keen to continue selling APs on the West Coast.

In a normal world, the response to this would be to eliminate the ability to bring in outside food and lower your in park prices to encourage people to partake.

 

[10CJ]

I was allowed to buy two renewal vouchers last night, even though our actual expiry date is mid-October. Told GR at the Epcot IG that I needed them to be able to make park reservations for Nov/Dec trips. No problem at all, other than the fact that I could only get Platinum rather than Platinum Plus (due to the fact only one waterparks is open, said they’re not selling Plus right now but can upgrade later).

So if someone is there now, while only BB is open, would they be able to upgrade to Platinum Plus if they want to go to BB?

 

[whiteness]

In a normal world, the response to this would be to eliminate the ability to bring in outside food and lower your in park prices to encourage people to partake.

And perhaps stop people from using blankets to reserve viewing spots. Which they actually tried, but those poor CMs were no match for indignant guests demanding their "rights", so they gave it up within a week as I recall.

I think most outside food is, technically, banned. But it's also probably hard for CMs to enforce that. Some guests might have a legitimate need to bring in outside food (or at least claim to have one.)

But this COVID crisis has taught us that the greater good can override the grievances of a minority. Maybe, now that COVID has gotten people more used to following directions given Cast Members, even when they really really don't want to, a ban on most outside food and etc. might work.

Disney lower prices? OK, now you're just being silly!

 

[StaceyHSD]

My guess is that WDW AP sales will eventually go on as before, hopefully sooner rather than later. They’re clearly not doing the same thing as they are at DLR where they’ve completely shut down AP sales. At WDW if you had an AP at the time WDW shut down you can renew. Why not just do what they did at DLR if they were planning on doing the same massive overhaul of APs at WDW? My guess is the big holdup of AP sales at WDW is park capacity issues, with no fastpass right now and limited entertainment and things to spread out the guests more. They want to make sure the availability is there for regular ticket buyers and resort guests without having to deal with all the APs that normally would be going to the parks. I think one of the things that will come back with the normal operations of the park is AP sales, maybe with some changes (probably pricing changes if nothing else).

 

[10CJ]

And perhaps stop people from using blankets to reserve viewing spots. Which they actually tried, but those poor CMs were no match for indignant guests demanding their "rights", so they gave it up within a week as I recall.

I think most outside food is, technically, banned. But it's also probably hard for CMs to enforce that. Some guests might have a legitimate need to bring in outside food (or at least claim to have one.)

But this COVID crisis has taught us that the greater good can override the grievances of a minority. Maybe, now that COVID has gotten people more used to following directions given Cast Members, even when they really really don't want to, a ban on most outside food and etc. might work.

Disney lower prices? OK, now you're just being silly!

I am not understanding the desire to ban outside food/drink. I do not really see a problem with families bringing in a meal. It does not mean they are not buying other food in the park. Traveling with kids, being able to bring in outside food is great. Sometimes they just need a little snack. Being able to just grab something out of your bag just makes life easier.

Outside food is allowed
https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/faq/parks/outside-food-and-drink/
I do not know the official policy on blankets.

 

[mackmack]

From what I've seen and heard, things hadn't gotten to that point in Disney World.

I believe these changes they are making are not about this year or next. I believe they are for 5 and 10 years from now. They are taking the opportunity(basically using Covid as an excuse) to overhaul things. I believe these changes were coming anyways but they are just doing it now. Once they exploit Marvel and Star Wars harder for IP in the parks(Galaxy's edge and Avengers Campus are the tip of the iceberg) along with the aforementioned flower and garden and food and wine, they must know statistically that AP's are a complete loss leader in every possible way. They can and will fill those parks with full price ticket payers easily.

The biggest thing to understand is that Paychek forged his Disney career in the parks. He ascended because of the parks. Where as Iger was the polar opposite. All Iger cared about was gaining IP and acquisitions. I don't think Iger ever cared a single bit about the parks, they were an afterthought and possibly even just an annoyance to him.

So Paychek has been DREAMING of these changes, salivating over these changes for years now. I bet there is nothing that makes him more angry than a park guest bringing in their own food and paying $30 per person via an AP over the course of a year. He literally said it out loud in a public earnings call(people on here will twist that and say he was talking about LAND, WRONG, the question from the analyst was about the "PARKS" not land or park, "PARKS")

It's gone. I would bet my entire life on it in a heartbeat.

 

[ForWhomTheMouseTolls]

Your entire life?

 

[Grumpy Mouse]

Just to add a little information to this conversation, in my WRITTEN correspondence with DVC compliance (we're new blue card members and I filed a compliant against DVC with the Florida attorney general), they feel they are fully within their rights for Disney ticketing to yank AP's (forever) and therefore the DVC discount on AP's to vanish.

Should they go away (and the discount), your only recourse is a class-action lawsuit with almost no hope of winning.

Or sell your timeshare.

 

[Prince John Robin Hood]

Why rush to reinstate them for new purchase when attendance is increasing and the 50th is coming? I don't see them coming back until late 2021 at the earliest unless they raise the price significantly.

 

[mackmack]

Here is the good news, if there is any. Do you guys remember the first couple years of the dining plan? How good that was. They always do that, they boost a program in its infancy to soften the blow or as a distraction technique.

I think the Legacy pass( FOR BOTH PARKS as this will be east and west coast) is going to be pretty good. I think it will actually be something a lot of people will want instead of AP's even. That is, until the 3-5 year mark hits and they start yanking portions of it and increasing the price. This is standard operating procedure from Disney(again, I reference the Dining Plan as an example).

That being said, I would be very very angry if I was an FL local and was accustomed to budgeting $900 and then thinking I can just go to the parks every single day all year round like it was a thing. That's going bye bye, my condolences FL you are going to take the brunt of it for the rest of us. Then again, I drop 5k when I goto World on average and you drop $30, so there is that.

 

[mausu]

It's gone. I would bet my entire life on it in a heartbeat.

well RIP.

 

[StaceyHSD]

He literally said it out loud in a public earnings call(people on here will twist that and say he was talking about LAND, WRONG, the question from the analyst was about the "PARKS" not land or park, "PARKS")

You keep saying this and just because you keep saying it doesn’t make it true. The last time I checked, Credit Suisse (?) analyst and Bob Chapek are not the same person. The Credit Suisse analyst asked a general question about APs in the PARKS. Then Bob Chapek went on and on about how they’re taking the opportunity provided by Covid to rework the Disneyland AP program. But knock yourself out with your declarations of certainty about what they’re doing with APs everywhere.

 

[starry_solo]

This AP sales embargo has a way of pitting different groups against each other. FYI, I used to live minutes from the DLR, and we spent a bunch of money in the parks when we were APs.

But, yeah, some people really did bring picnics into the park. My family once had to endure waiting over an hour for a parade next to an extended family that had spread a beach blanket on the sidewalk, and were boisterously enjoying all kinds of pungent delicacies out of tupperware containers.

They had quite a system worked out, actually: they apparently dropped off an older family member with the blanket to reserve the spot (she was there when we got there.) Then, at some point, others arrived with baby carriages loaded up with food (and a couple of babies, to be fair), and started unpacking everything. Finally, the rest of the family arrived and they started digging in. One could almost imagine that was a frequent thing, and the parade, itself, was just the cherry on top rather than the goal.

The AP program had allowed some local guests to treat the parks like...their local parks. Because that's what you do at your local park, right? Someone in your group reserves a spot for the family, others bring the food, then they all show up and enjoy a picnic/party. If you're lucky, there might be entertainment provided. Some rides for the kiddies, etc. For $XX per month, your family got a membership in the best, most amazing local park ever. And, since you've already paid whether you use it or not, better use it as often as possible to justify the expense.

The above true story was an extreme example, but I can tell you that it was the norm to see families reserving space with blankets, and not at all unusual to see people clearly eating outside food throughout the park.

Yes, knowledgeable AP holders aggressively snapping up prime viewing space night after night does somewhat lessen the experience for casual guests who might be spending relatively more money per visit. And I can see why Disney might prefer that more higher spending guests were admitted than lower spending ones. From what I've seen and heard, things hadn't gotten to that point in Disney World. But I can see why Disney might not be keen to continue selling APs on the West Coast.

I remember seeing families bringing in KFC buckets.... the only thing we brought was cans of soda....

 

[starry_solo]

Just to add a little information to this conversation, in my WRITTEN correspondence with DVC compliance (we're new blue card members and I filed a compliant against DVC with the Florida attorney general), they feel they are fully within their rights for Disney ticketing to yank AP's (forever) and therefore the DVC discount on AP's to vanish.

Should they go away (and the discount), your only recourse is a class-action lawsuit with almost no hope of winning.

Or sell your timeshare.

not sure how that would work with Disney Tickets has nothing to do with DVC/DVD. But good luck...

 

[whiteness]

I remember seeing families bringing in KFC buckets.... the only thing we brought was cans of soda....

We used to bring in cooked white rice to eat with the skewers at the Bengal Barbecue. Finally, I guess Disney caught onto this "food hack", and started offering a "rice plate", with rice, 2 skewers and a salad. It's overpriced, but I stopped having to bring in rice once they offered it.

I like KFC, and often brought a bucket home with me (especially during the lockdown), but I can't imagine bringing in KFC in lieu of eating at the Plaza Inn. When I'm visiting a Disney property, I want to "Do Disney." I want to eat and drink Disney meals, treats, and beverages whenever possible. Not necessarily because they are objectively better (but sometimes they are: eg. Churro Toffee), but because I want to forget about the outside world and be immersed in all things Disney.

I'm just speculating, but perhaps for some people, having an AP so cheaped the experience of visiting the parks that they that no longer considered Disneyland special and unique. So, eating a bucket of KFC while watching a parade at Disneyland felt no different than eating KFC watching the TV at home.

Personally, I would prefer that visiting the parks feels like a special, unique experience, rather than common and ordinary. And I can understand why Disney shareholders might prefer that, too. If the AP program was cheaping the value of visiting Disney properties for some people, perhaps that needed to be addressed. But it's sad that the "cure" will probably make it harder and more expensive for my family to visit as well.

 

[Grumpy Mouse]

not sure how that would work with Disney Tickets has nothing to do with DVC/DVD. But good luck...

Uh - that was their point. In their letter to me (from DVC's chief compliance officer), AP's were not under the control of DVD/DVC, but the entity that did control them was fully within their rights to terminate the AP program at any time. And consequently, should the AP program be terminated, DVC/DVD was fully within their rights to terminate the corresponding discount.

And again (and again, and again, and again), I mention all of this because there appears to be a sizable group of DVC members that believe the AP program (with discount) is 'untouchable' because of potential member pushback, or legal ramifications, or some other nonsense.

Those folks are swimming in the River of Denial...

 

[ForWhomTheMouseTolls]

I

Uh - that was their point. In their letter to me (from DVC's chief compliance officer), AP's were not under the control of DVD/DVC, but the entity that did control them was fully within their rights to terminate the AP program at any time. And consequently, should the AP program be terminated, DVC/DVD was fully within their rights to terminate the corresponding discount.

And again (and again, and again, and again), I mention all of this because there appears to be a sizable group of DVC members that believe the AP program (with discount) is 'untouchable' because of potential member pushback, or legal ramifications, or some other nonsense.

Those folks are swimming in the River of Denial...

I bet you’re a joy at a dinner party.

 

[Mike1082]

And like you point out the locals really don’t spend much money as they eat before they get there and often times bring food in or go to their car for food.

Unlike locals we stayed on grounds when we visit. Eat most of our meals on property.

I do think Disney can and does make money off annual passholders, just not the local ones.

You're painting "the locals" with a pretty broad brush there, Mayor. I'm thinking it's not quite fair to assume everyone that lives in FL and takes advantage of the WDW AP's all gather in the parking lot at lunch time to tailgate with a sandwich spread in order to avoid spending a nickel on food inside the parks.