Any hope of canceling a RV service contract?

[floridafam]

Does your dad have any assets? If he's broke, he may be able to negotiate this better, because suing him won't get them anywhere.

He has his house but still has a mortgage. He lives on social security and his small VA monthly disability check.

 

[barkley]

i sympathize. my late mother had one of brothers living with her for decades and taking advantage. i finally called adult protective services and spoke with them about what was occurring. they took an anonymous report and looked into the situation to determine if it was even a safe environment for mom to be in (NOT). in your situation they don't have to focus on the RV so it won't nesc. look like you made the report but financial abuse is an aspect of their investigations. in my case it put some 'fear of god' into that brother that helped to some degree (he realized he was being observed and there were legal consequences for elder abuse).

i also lived in a state separate from my mom which does complicate things but involving APS in her state also connected me to other agencies to provide me guidance/her protections-the ombudsman and public guardianship programs in particular.

one day at a time. take care of yourself.

 

[floridafam]

I would love to be able to sell it and get within a few thousand but I can’t envision buyers dealing with my dad or my sister.

 

[lifesavacation]

Have you sat down with your sister and asked how they are going to get your dad out of this? She sounds pretty awful, actually, so that may just be me naively thinking that she is capable of rational conversation.

 

[floridafam]

Have you sat down with your sister and asked how they are going to get your dad out of this? She sounds pretty awful, actually, so that may just be me naively thinking that she is capable of rational conversation.

I can only talk to her on the phone. She is learning disabled and will hang up on me if she gets agitated.

 

[cabanafrau]

It’s not really an option. We have a lawyer that handles most stuff for my dad. My sister and her husband live with my dad. He would also likely deny any undo influence on their part. I’m sure the finance company will repossess if they miss an additional payment.

I can see where this is going. They will probably get behind again even if they catch up now. The loan will outlive my dad. They will likely never use the service contract because they will either lose the trailer or we will have to sell if my dad passes away. They talk about it as if it is there trailer. My dad is the only one on the loan.

I even called a dealer close to them and they will give them half of what they paid. Not an option.

My dad will deny he was influenced until that end of time. He also can’t afford a lawyer.

It’s been a stressor every month so seeing if they made the payment. They missed the one due 12/24 and my dad arranged for them to pay it on 1/24 and I know for a fact they won’t be able to do it.

If thee finance company takes it, they will sell it and my dad will be responsible for the difference. I’m trying to minimize that balance. I don’t see any way they will make every payment for 7 years and live happily ever after. It would take a miracle.

The fact your dad would deny elder abuse and undue influence doesn't carry the day. Adult Protective Services can be called in to assist if necessary.

Michigan's laws regarding matters such as this would be contained within the provisions of what's known as EPIC, the Estate and Protected Individuals Code. It won't take a rocket scientist to suss out that the purchase of an RV and a warranty for such was not done for the benefit of your father. The fact that you point out his finances won't cover the cost of an attorney to assist with the situation further bolsters one of the problems with the RV purchase being done in your dad's name -- if he were to require nursing home care and didn't have the funds to pay for it this purchase would be flagged in the lookback, holding up his entitlement to benefits.

 

[barkley]

I can only talk to her on the phone. She is learning disabled and will hang up on me if she gets agitated.

your sister may be considered a 'vulnerable adult' under michigan's adult protective services as well. i have a learning disabled adult son and if i were to engage in anything as you've described i could face severe charges on behalf of (1) the senior taken advantage of, and (2) my son as a vulnerable adult (committing him to a handshake agreement to make payments he is financially incapable of and facilitating it by putting it in someone else's name). if your sister and your brother in law receive any form of public assistance or income/resource based disability this can be construed as fraud and you don't wan't your father's finances and assets entangled in it.

if he can't afford an attorney, as a vet i believe he may have some free legal services available or he can seek out free legal aid (since he seems resistant i would again suggest you contact APS for free guidance).

 

[cabanafrau]

Sounds as if this situation has all sorts of problematic aspects and is bound to blow up sooner or later. I'd bite the bullet now before there is another critical aspect pending and loop in Adult Protective Services so that they can get involved. Given the circumstances I'd fully expect this matter will be brought before the Court for some type of supervisory action, which is likely for the best.

ETA If need be the Court will appoint a Public Administrator. There will still be a cost, but it will be kept to a minimum wherever possible. It may even be that your sister is determined to need a guardian and/or a conservator depending upon her situation, which also may be for the best if the reality is that your father has been making things possible for her long-term to this point. In Michigan a guardian makes decisions about where a person lives, education, health matters, etc. A conservator would oversee a protected person's finances.

 

[easyas123]

Forgive me for being insensitive, but there seems to be two issues here:

#1 is the sister & brother in law taking advantage of your father. I think the other posters recommending contacting Adult Protective Services if you are unable or unwilling to enter the premises and see what's going on is a excellent one.

#2 the loan. Your father signed it - worst case scenario is it gets repossessed, your father's credit is fouled up...but what difference does that make at this point? Can't get blood from a rock, yes it's a crap show & not a situation anyone wants to find themselves in, but them taking the RV back - will that in any way change your fathers life? He's 90, and his income is secure. It's not like he needs to buy a car or another house in the next 5-10 years I presume? Does he need excellent credit at this point in life?

Sorry, I sometimes take a overly practical view of things. If you can't or won't step in and get involved then you should accept that things are going to go even more sideways.

 

[cabanafrau]

Forgive me for being insensitive, but there seems to be two issues here:

#1 is the sister & brother in law taking advantage of your father. I think the other posters recommending contacting Adult Protective Services if you are unable or unwilling to enter the premises and see what's going on is a excellent one.

#2 the loan. Your father signed it - worst case scenario is it gets repossessed, your father's credit is fouled up...but what difference does that make at this point? Can't get blood from a rock, yes it's a crap show & not a situation anyone wants to find themselves in, but them taking the RV back - will that in any way change your fathers life? He's 90, and his income is secure. It's not like he needs to buy a car or another house in the next 5-10 years I presume? Does he need excellent credit at this point in life?

Sorry, I sometimes take a overly practical view of things. If you can't or won't step in and get involved then you should accept that things are going to go even more sideways.

A 90-something year old man may reasonably be expected to need nursing care in the foreseeable future. If he's unable to fund that entirely on his own it will require a five-year Social Security lookback. That's where the RV purchase and the loan and potential repossession becomes problematic.

 

[floridafam]

Forgive me for being insensitive, but there seems to be two issues here:

#1 is the sister & brother in law taking advantage of your father. I think the other posters recommending contacting Adult Protective Services if you are unable or unwilling to enter the premises and see what's going on is a excellent one.

#2 the loan. Your father signed it - worst case scenario is it gets repossessed, your father's credit is fouled up...but what difference does that make at this point? Can't get blood from a rock, yes it's a crap show & not a situation anyone wants to find themselves in, but them taking the RV back - will that in any way change your fathers life? He's 90, and his income is secure. It's not like he needs to buy a car or another house in the next 5-10 years I presume? Does he need excellent credit at this point in life?

Sorry, I sometimes take a overly practical view of things. If you can't or won't step in and get involved then you should accept that things are going to go even more sideways.

This is exactly what I said to my brother. My dad is in his house and will likely not be making any big purchases ever again. It is a crap show. I’m trying to lessen the amount of crap but I know I can’t do everything. I visited him in October and he was safe. My sister is just so naive. I did make some headway today. The service contract can be cancelled. I have several people who can be my eyes and ears in regards to my dad.

 

[floridafam]

I’m aware of the implications with nursing care and such. That was one of the first things that came to mind when this happened. I was going to try and eventually get my dad some assistance through the VA, called Aid and Attendance and I think this purchase ruined that.

 

[easyas123]

A 90-something year old man may reasonably be expected to need nursing care in the foreseeable future. If he's unable to fund that entirely on his own it will require a five-year Social Security lookback. That's where the RV purchase and the loan and potential repossession becomes problematic.

Interesting- so SS can decline ok’ing it if a person has bad credit? I wasn’t aware of that- thanks for the info. Something to think about for sure.

 

[kymom99]

A 90-something year old man may reasonably be expected to need nursing care in the foreseeable future. If he's unable to fund that entirely on his own it will require a five-year Social Security lookback. That's where the RV purchase and the loan and potential repossession becomes problematic.

Do you mean Medicaid?

 

[_19disnA]

Assume they mean Medicaid. SS payments are based on your income, number of years employed and when you start to collect. When applying for Medicaid they want to see 5 yrs of financial records to verify you haven't given away assets in an attempt to meet their eligibility requirements.

 

[kymom99]

He can't sell it without title.

Not sure if trailers work like cars, but with cars you can’t be on the title if not on the loan. I found that out when my husband bought his last car and I asked to have my name on the title. Couldn’t do it.

 

[kymom99]

I mean the loan company holds that title but if we could sell it for close to what he owes, that would be nice. The service contract is transferable to a new owner. I would be willing to pay the difference to get my dad out of this mess.

How would you get him to agree to sell the trailer?

 

[RoseColored97]

OP, I agree with the previous poster about contacting APS anonymously. You would be surprised how many companies have fraud departments that make reports on suspected financial abuse on at-risk adults. Something like this may be flagged by the finance company where they purchased it, either due to the behavior of the parties when it was purchased or because of comments made, down to looking at the finances and seeing that something just isn't adding up. It wouldn't necessarily point back to you. Very easy to make a report from another state. The social worker may have better knowledge of additional resources in your father's local area that may be able to assist your dad.

Depending on the circumstances, it may get referred to a special victims investigator with his local PD just as an FYI.