Anxiety

[Pea-n-Me]

You're right that these topics can be difficult for some people to discuss, so when Wendy opened up about her childhood abuse and, instead of receiving validation and support, the PP minimized it and brushed it off as "moms have it tough sometimes!" Well... It's got me, admittedly, feeling bristly on Wendy's behalf. It is never, under any circumstances, okay for a parent to say what Wendy's mom said and anyone who responds to that statement with comments about "understanding how hard it is to be a mom" is making excuses for it. For the PP to carry it a step further and then imply that I, too, will one day abuse my own child as a result of being a stressed out mom is beyond the pale.

I do hope this thread can serve as a place of support and I wish you and your children the best as you face your upcoming challenges.

Oh, good grief. You have no idea of my background because I haven't shared it here. Let's just say it was difficult and I am no stranger to verbal abuse. What I was trying to say, not just to Wendy but generally, is that I've developed wisdom about it and been able to NOW let it go, because I sensed that she was working on the same, in her own way. This comes with time and maturity, in some cases. Obviously not everyone is able to let it go. But it is something many people work on in therapy, on their own, or even by practicing the concept of forgiveness, which helps victims by freeing them from the burden of holding onto difficult feelings. All things I've learned on my own journey. You got so defensive when I mentioned the part about moms that you were willing to throw Wendy under the bus in order to make your own point. And yes, that bothered me a lot and I also felt "bristly" on Wendy's behalf. My point stands that parenthood can get inordinately stressful, sometimes when we least expect it or when we're also in a vulnerable state in one way or another, and we can find ourselves saying hurtful things. Many of us have been there. And when we are, we can better understand, perhaps, what our parents were going through when they were having difficulty.

My father was a wonderful man who came home from driving a tank in WWII with severe PTSD and other issues. My mother is a wonderful, simple lady who tried hard to cope with it, but wound up having a nervous breakdown herself. Add me in as a late in life baby and I had to deal with things that no child should ever have to deal with. I mean, it was pretty bad at times. (You know it's really bad when your male therapist starts to cry as you're talking, talk about unnerving, lol.) I had a lot of work to do as an adult to figure it all out and make peace with it. I actually waited quite a while to have children because I wasn't sure I'd know how to do a good job. Fortunately I met a wonderful man who's been my life partner and together we've raised two great kids. So this is from where I speak. I often wonder when I hear people say they've never uttered a harsh word to their children (or never will), what their backgrounds are. I picture an idyllic home where everything was just peachy at all times. (Leave it to Beaver? The Waltons? Wait, I think even the Waltons had their moments.) But then I wonder if they just don't remember. Because my knowledge of people just isn't that. In my view, most people have moments where they lose it. At least that's been the case in people I've both observed and talked to about it. I could be wrong, though, and maybe there really are some people out there who can keep their cool at all times, every time. My guess, though, would be that, in that case, there'd more to the story. There are many forms and degrees to lack of perfection in parenting. The article I linked to Wendy is a good read.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Oh, good grief. You have no idea of my background because I haven't shared it here. Let's just say it was difficult and I am no stranger to verbal abuse. What I was trying to say, not just to Wendy but generally, is that I've developed wisdom about it and been able to NOW let it go, because I sensed that she was working on the same, in her own way. This comes with time and maturity, in some cases. Obviously not everyone is able to let it go. But it is something many people work on in therapy, on their own, or even by practicing the concept of forgiveness, which helps victims by freeing them from the burden of holding onto difficult feelings. All things I've learned on my own journey. You got so defensive when I mentioned the part about moms that you were willing to throw Wendy under the bus in order to make your own point. And yes, that bothered me a lot and I also felt "bristly" on Wendy's behalf. My point stands that parenthood can get inordinately stressful, sometimes when we least expect it or when we're also in a vulnerable state in one way or another, and we can find ourselves saying hurtful things. Many of us have been there. And when we are, we can better understand, perhaps, what our parents were going through when they were having difficulty.

My father was a wonderful man who came home from driving a tank in WWII with severe PTSD and other issues. My mother is a wonderful, simple lady who tried hard to cope with it, but wound up having a nervous breakdown herself. Add me in as a late in life baby and I had to deal with things that no child should ever have to deal with. I mean, it was pretty bad at times. (You know it's really bad when your male therapist starts to cry as you're talking, talk about unnerving, lol.) I had a lot of work to do as an adult to figure it all out and make peace with it. I actually waited quite a while to have children because I wasn't sure I'd know how to do a good job. Fortunately I met a wonderful man who's been my life partner and together we've raised two great kids. So this is from where I speak. I often wonder when I hear people say they've never uttered a harsh word to their children (or never will), what their backgrounds are. I picture an idyllic home where everything was just peachy at all times. (Leave it to Beaver? The Waltons? Wait, I think even the Waltons had their moments.) But then I wonder if they just don't remember. Because my knowledge of people just isn't that. In my view, most people have moments where they lose it. At least that's been the case in people I've both observed and talked to about it. I could be wrong, though, and maybe there really are some people out there who can keep their cool at all times, every time. My guess, though, would be that, in that case, there'd more to the story. There are many forms and degrees to lack of perfection in parenting. The article I linked to Wendy is a good read.

You don't have to go into your background, Pea. I've sensed for a long time now that you had a difficult upbringing. As a fellow victim of childhood abuse, I've recognized it in your posts. It's evident in some of your wording. I'm glad you've been able to get to a place of peace with it. Truly. No child should have to experience those things.

I wasn't defensive about your "mom stress" comments; I was appalled. Let me try an analogy to see if it will help you understand what I'm saying:

A woman in your life (sister, friend, coworker...) confides in you that her husband comes home in the evenings and screams at her, with it sometimes escalating to physical violence. Do you reply with,

A) Gee, that's not okay, but maybe he had a hard day at work? Work can be so stressful for a man, especially if he's got a big deadline coming up. You'll understand better once you get a job, too.

Or do you say,

B) I'm so sorry. That is abuse and it is not okay. I don't care how stressed he might be, I don't care if suffers from mental illness or alcoholism, I don't care if he grew up watching his dad hit his mom... None of that is an excuse for him to treat you that way. What can I do to help?

The correct answer is B and you answered A. That's why I was bothered.

I did not throw Wendy under the bus for personal gain. Geez Louise. Wendy described herself as a sufferer of severe anxiety that began in childhood and has carried over to permeate many aspects of her adult life. I summed that up by saying "ball of anxiety." In my world that's not an insult, nor would be "bundle of nerves" or, as I said earlier in the thread about myself, that I used to be "such a mess" when my anxiety was out of control. If that terminology hurt Wendy in any way, I apologize to her.

"I often wonder when I hear people say they've never uttered a harsh word to their children (or never will), what their backgrounds are. I picture an idyllic home where everything was just peachy at all times. (Leave it to Beaver? The Waltons? Wait, I think even the Waltons had their moments.) But then I wonder if they just don't remember. Because my knowledge of people just isn't that. In my view, most people have moments where they lose it. At least that's been the case in people I've both observed and talked to about it. I could be wrong, though, and maybe there really are some people out there who can keep their cool at all times, every time. My guess, though, would be that, in that case, there'd more to the story."

I think you've touched on something very important here. When we grow up with abuse, that becomes our "normal." Dysfunction attracts dysfunction and dysfunction breeds dysfunction, so it's not unusual to end up with huge extended families full of dysfunction everywhere you look, which further supports one's perception that this is normal. As children, that's all we know and it takes a while to realize not everybody lives that way. And at some point we find ourselves accepting that our experiences may not be the norm, but were they really that bad? Were they really that far outside the realm of normal family dynamics? Okay, maybe other people's parents don't go off on hours-long rages, but they must yell sometimes, right? I used to be embarrassed to admit this, but I was 17 years old before I realized not every married couple is physically violent with each other. I just thought that was something that became inevitable the longer a couple stayed together and I didn't realize how far off I was in my thinking until I made some comment about it to my boyfriend at the time and he was absolutely stunned. Flabbergasted(!) that anyone could think that was normal, and it shook up everything I thought I knew about how married couples act behind closed doors. You mean some couples actually enjoy each other's company? I wasn't a dim bulb either -- I was a straight A student, but I'd never thought to question if my parent's marriage was atypical. Marital dysfunction was all I'd ever seen, so I just assumed it was normal. In a similar vein, throughout my adult years people have sometimes asked me to explain what was so awful about my upbringing. My answers usually boiled down to some variation of "Eh, it's hard to explain, it's just something you'd have to see for yourself. My parents were crazy, there was a lot of yelling... I can't really describe it in thirty seconds or less." Because I never thought to mention that when I was 8 years old my mother very nearly killed me in one of her rages. Literally. It's not that I forgot about the incident, it's that it had become such a normalized part of my life story that I failed to see just how awful and shocking it would be by anyone else's standards. So when you, Pea, express skepticism at the notion that some families can function without ever losing their cool, I can relate. But I can also vouch that it's absolutely true, because I have decades of intimate experience seeing it in action with my husband's family and my best friend's family. No one is raising their voices, no one is lashing out at their children. It's not because they're living some Leave it to Beaver existence; it's because they have healthy ways of coping with life's stresses that don't involve taking it out on others. Functional families can, and do, exist.

Regarding the article you mentioned, I read it when you first linked it but failed to see what value it was supposed to hold for someone trying to heal from an abusive past. It seemed to just be more support for the assertion that parenting is stressful which, in my mind at least, still doesn't excuse anything that crosses the line into the abuse, endangerment, or neglect of a child. Adults are still responsible for their actions, no matter what demons they may be struggling with.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

You don't have to go into your background, Pea. I've sensed for a long time now that you had a difficult upbringing. As a fellow victim of childhood abuse, I've recognized it in your posts. It's evident in some of your wording. I'm glad you've been able to get to a place of peace with it. Truly. No child should have to experience those things.

I wasn't defensive about your "mom stress" comments; I was appalled. Let me try an analogy to see if it will help you understand what I'm saying:

A woman in your life (sister, friend, coworker...) confides in you that her husband comes home in the evenings and screams at her, with it sometimes escalating to physical violence. Do you reply with,

A) Gee, that's not okay, but maybe he had a hard day at work? Work can be so stressful for a man, especially if he's got a big deadline coming up. You'll understand better once you get a job, too.

Or do you say,

B) I'm so sorry. That is abuse and it is not okay. I don't care how stressed he might be, I don't care if suffers from mental illness or alcoholism, I don't care if he grew up watching his dad hit his mom... None of that is an excuse for him to treat you that way. What can I do to help?

The correct answer is B and you answered A. That's why I was bothered.

I did not throw Wendy under the bus for personal gain. Geez Louise. Wendy described herself as a sufferer of severe anxiety that began in childhood and has carried over to permeate many aspects of her adult life. I summed that up by saying "ball of anxiety." In my world that's not an insult, nor would be "bundle of nerves" or, as I said earlier in the thread about myself, that I used to be "such a mess" when my anxiety was out of control. If that terminology hurt Wendy in any way, I apologize to her.

"I often wonder when I hear people say they've never uttered a harsh word to their children (or never will), what their backgrounds are. I picture an idyllic home where everything was just peachy at all times. (Leave it to Beaver? The Waltons? Wait, I think even the Waltons had their moments.) But then I wonder if they just don't remember. Because my knowledge of people just isn't that. In my view, most people have moments where they lose it. At least that's been the case in people I've both observed and talked to about it. I could be wrong, though, and maybe there really are some people out there who can keep their cool at all times, every time. My guess, though, would be that, in that case, there'd more to the story."

I think you've touched on something very important here. When we grow up with abuse, that becomes our "normal." Dysfunction attracts dysfunction and dysfunction breeds dysfunction, so it's not unusual to end up with huge extended families full of dysfunction everywhere you look, which further supports one's perception that this is normal. As children, that's all we know and it takes a while to realize not everybody lives that way. And at some point we find ourselves accepting that our experiences may not be the norm, but were they really that bad? Were they really that far outside the realm of normal family dynamics? Okay, maybe other people's parents don't go off on hours-long rages, but they must yell sometimes, right? I used to be embarrassed to admit this, but I was 17 years old before I realized not every married couple is physically violent with each other. I just thought that was something that became inevitable the longer a couple stayed together and I didn't realize how far off I was in my thinking until I made some comment about it to my boyfriend at the time and he was absolutely stunned. Flabbergasted(!) that anyone could think that was normal, and it shook up everything I thought I knew about how married couples act behind closed doors. You mean some couples actually enjoy each other's company? I wasn't a dim bulb either -- I was a straight A student, but I'd never thought to question if my parent's marriage was atypical. Marital dysfunction was all I'd ever seen, so I just assumed it was normal. In a similar vein, throughout my adult years people have sometimes asked me to explain what was so awful about my upbringing. My answers usually boiled down to some variation of "Eh, it's hard to explain, it's just something you'd have to see for yourself. My parents were crazy, there was a lot of yelling... I can't really describe it in thirty seconds or less." Because I never thought to mention that when I was 8 years old my mother very nearly killed me in one of her rages. Literally. It's not that I forgot about the incident, it's that it had become such a normalized part of my life story that I failed to see just how awful and shocking it would be by anyone else's standards. So when you, Pea, express skepticism at the notion that some families can function without ever losing their cool, I can relate. But I can also vouch that it's absolutely true, because I have decades of intimate experience seeing it in action with my husband's family and my best friend's family. No one is raising their voices, no one is lashing out at their children. It's not because they're living some Leave it to Beaver existence; it's because they have healthy ways of coping with life's stresses that don't involve taking it out on others. Functional families can, and do, exist.

Regarding the article you mentioned, I read it when you first linked it but failed to see what value it was supposed to hold for someone trying to heal from an abusive past. It seemed to just be more support for the assertion that parenting is stressful which, in my mind at least, still doesn't excuse anything that crosses the line into the abuse, endangerment, or neglect of a child. Adults are still responsible for their actions, no matter what demons they may be struggling with.

I can appreciate the points you're making, and I'm only continuing this dialogue because I'm hoping others can relate to it, and/or see that they're not alone when they have whatever demons they have to deal with. I didn't feel I had to share; I chose to. I've been kind of an open book here, especially when it comes to helping people or support work, and I've devoted my life to caring for others, so I don't just talk the talk, I walk the walk. Nor do I just surround myself just with like-people or family. I actually have many varied life experiences and friends from all walks of life. One of my closest support networks while raising my children were other parents. It was refreshing to hear how many similarities we all share, regardless of our backgrounds. We see it here, as well. This is not to say that I was verbally abusive to my children. My whole point was that mostly all parents, at times, and hopefully rare times, can say things they later regret. As a nurse who takes care of people who are critically ill and sometimes dying, I often find myself alone with patients who want to talk, to kind of "let it out" to a safe person, hearing their life stories and expressing sometimes regret about some things. It's not my job to bash them for how they may have behaved; it's my job to help them come to terms with things. So what I've expressed is often how people find resolution and comfort. Because when it comes right down to it, we're all human, and no human is perfect. I also have a husband whose family initially appeared to me to be like the Waltons'. But over 37 years I've realized that they're just like most other families, although in different ways. I've actually discussed this a lot with my SIL and she completely agrees. Things have been hard on her, in particular. No family is perfect. Families are often both loving and infuriating at the same time. That seems to be more the norm than the opposite.

As for your quiz. You remind me a lot of myself when I was younger. I was sort of angry and nobody was going to tell me what I could or couldn't do; say or couldn't say, etc. I also wanted to call a spade a spade, no matter who disagreed or tried to brush it off. Thankfully, though, over the years I softened quite a bit. For myself. It wasn't good for me to go around all the time with this sort of chip on my shoulder, if you will. (And not saying you necessarily have a chip on your shoulder, I'm talking about myself.) I learned how to have a "soft heart" in a group I met with regularly when I was in cancer treatment. (Speaking of diverse backgrounds! And everyody there was assumed to have some degree of a hardened heart, as many people do as we go through life.) Developing a soft heart enabled me to let go of a lot of stress; to forgive people; to resolve outstanding issues with others, etc. It doesn't mean that what they did was ok; it just means that I wasn't going to allow it negatively influence my life anymore. (And this may sound simple here, but it was the cumulation of many months of difficult work, and yes, many tears.) I also learned on the job that people respond better to softer people. (Not to be mistaken for pushover.) Softer. Approachable. Kind. Understanding. Willing to listen. Again, it doesn't mean that in the heat of things sometimes that someone is always going to be exactly that way. It just means it's something to strive for, in order to have a better quality of life. But to get back to your example, you cannot compare the way an adult reacts to the way a child reacts, as a child has no choice of where to go; and family, especially mothers, are a whole different animal than friends. But I digress. If that were my friend the conversation would not be so black and white or cut and dry, by any means. It would likely be pretty complex and ongoing, looking at my friend's background and history, and lots of other factors, in order to figure out what the best solution for her was. I would absolutely be helping her find some resources. And again, this does not make the screaming or violence ok.

Re the article, you are correct in that it was intended to show that parenting is stressful. So stressful there have been decades of research about it. That was my point. I was trying to help Wendy see that she was not alone, and also how common it is for various factors to come into play when parents do have outbursts: financial, marital, care of children, illness, etc. You seem to keep wanting to say I'm trying to excuse it when I'm not.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this rather than continue to argue about it here. Suffice it to say we both have different points and viewpoints, and all have merit. People reading our posts can take from them what they will, or not. Everyone has different ways of coping with their own life experiences.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I can appreciate the points you're making, and I'm only continuing this dialogue because I'm hoping others can relate to it, and/or see that they're not alone when they have whatever demons they have to deal with. I didn't feel I had to share; I chose to. I've been kind of an open book here, especially when it comes to helping people or support work, and I've devoted my life to caring for others, so I don't just talk the talk, I walk the walk. Nor do I just surround myself just with like-people or family. I actually have many varied life experiences and friends from all walks of life. One of my closest support networks while raising my children were other parents. It was refreshing to hear how many similarities we all share, regardless of our backgrounds. We see it here, as well. This is not to say that I was verbally abusive to my children. My whole point was that mostly all parents, at times, and hopefully rare times, can say things they later regret. As a nurse who takes care of people who are critically ill and sometimes dying, I often find myself alone with patients who want to talk, to kind of "let it out" to a safe person, hearing their life stories and expressing sometimes regret about some things. It's not my job to bash them for how they may have behaved; it's my job to help them come to terms with things. So what I've expressed is often how people find resolution and comfort. Because when it comes right down to it, we're all human, and no human is perfect. I also have a husband whose family initially appeared to me to be like the Waltons'. But over 37 years I've realized that they're just like most other families, although in different ways. I've actually discussed this a lot with my SIL and she completely agrees. Things have been hard on her, in particular. No family is perfect. Families are often both loving and infuriating at the same time. That seems to be more the norm than the opposite.

As for your quiz. You remind me a lot of myself when I was younger. I was sort of angry and nobody was going to tell me what I could or couldn't do; say or couldn't say, etc. I also wanted to call a spade a spade, no matter who disagreed or tried to brush it off. Thankfully, though, over the years I softened quite a bit. For myself. It wasn't good for me to go around all the time with this sort of chip on my shoulder, if you will. (And not saying you necessarily have a chip on your shoulder, I'm talking about myself.) I learned how to have a "soft heart" in a group I met with regularly when I was in cancer treatment. (Speaking of diverse backgrounds! And everyody there was assumed to have some degree of a hardened heart, as many people do as we go through life.) Developing a soft heart enabled me to let go of a lot of stress; to forgive people; to resolve outstanding issues with others, etc. It doesn't mean that what they did was ok; it just means that I wasn't going to allow it negatively influence my life anymore. (And this may sound simple here, but it was the cumulation of many months of difficult work, and yes, many tears.) I also learned on the job that people respond better to softer people. (Not to be mistaken for pushover.) Softer. Approachable. Kind. Understanding. Willing to listen. Again, it doesn't mean that in the heat of things sometimes that someone is always going to be exactly that way. It just means it's something to strive for, in order to have a better quality of life. But to get back to your example, you cannot compare the way an adult reacts to the way a child reacts, as a child has no choice of where to go; and family, especially mothers, are a whole different animal than friends. But I digress. If that were my friend the conversation would not be so black and white or cut and dry, by any means. It would likely be pretty complex and ongoing, looking at my friend's background and history, and lots of other factors, in order to figure out what the best solution for her was. I would absolutely be helping her find some resources. And again, this does not make the screaming or violence ok.

Re the article, you are correct in that it was intended to show that parenting is stressful. So stressful there have been decades of research about it. That was my point. I was trying to help Wendy see that she was not alone, and also how common it is for various factors to come into play when parents do have outbursts: financial, marital, care of children, illness, etc. You seem to keep wanting to say I'm trying to excuse it when I'm not.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this rather than continue to argue about it here. Suffice it to say we both have different points and viewpoints, and all have merit. People reading our posts can take from them what they will, or not. Everyone has different ways of coping with their own life experiences.

Oy. I did not realize the point I was making -- Child abuse is inexcusable, period -- was so controversial and would result in such pushback. Perhaps one day my heart will soften and I'll develop the wisdom and maturity to change my views on that.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Oy. I did not realize the point I was making -- Child abuse is inexcusable, period -- was so controversial and would result in such pushback. Perhaps one day my heart will soften and I'll develop the wisdom and maturity to change my views on that.

And it's not in your nature to say horrid things. Okaayyy.

I just poured out my heart here and this is what I get from you. Great.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

​

 

[Pea-n-Me]

 

[TipsyTraveler]

And it's not in your nature to say horrid things. Okaayyy.

I just poured out my heart here and this is what I get from you. Great.

Pea, I don't know what's going on on your side of the screen, but I'm not trying to upset you or argue with you or whatever. I'm just frustrated that conversations like this are still taking place in this day and age. Our society needs to take a hardline approach on matters of abuse (of many types) and say we will not excuse the people who perpetuate it, ever. Understand abuse's cyclical and generational nature? Sure. Forgive them? Sure, if that's what their victims choose to do for their own healing. But I keep trying to get you to see eye-to-eye with me on this one simple concept that there are no excuses for a parent to be abusive towards their child, but no matter what I say or how I say it -- I've tried plain speak, I've tried an analogy, I've tried relating to you through our similar experiences, I've tried explaining how our environments affect our perceptions of normalcy -- no matter how I try, you just keep coming back with, "I'm not excusing it but.... being a mom is stressful, death bed regrets, I'd need to know that battered wife's background, here's a research study proving that parenting is stressful..." And you're doing it with a heavy helping of condescension, in case you weren't aware.

I tried my best to get you to understand me, but apparently failed. I don't think there's anything else I can contribute here. We're just too far apart in our views, it seems.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

You have been very condescending and off-putting yourself. I'm done.

 

[Wendy31]

I've debated coming back to this thread.

But I feel like I started something, & I didn't mean to.

Please know I haven't been offended by any of the posts that have been directed to or about me. I think the people on this thread have shared thoughts & feelings, & some of it has been painful - but I think everyone has meant well.

We all come at things from our own experiences & histories, & that colors both how we see things & how we understand things. And, sometimes, because we are coming at things from different viewpoints or expressing ourselves differently, misunderstands ensue. And I hate that I was the cause of any misunderstanding.

Honestly, I'm not upset w/ any of the posters on this thread, & I have appreciated the support & the shared stories.

I didn't end up teary because of anything on this thread, necessarily, but, instead, due to the memories & feelings this thread was bringing up.

Again, I'm grown now & I'm a parent myself, & I understand that parents can say & do things that they don't mean out of frustration, anger, stress, worry, fear, whatever.

However, I still don't believe that necessarily always excuses a parent. Things we say & do will have consequences - even if we didn't mean it, even if we're sorry.

That said, I can look back at my childhood & (I think) put it in its proper perspective. But, that doesn't mean I've forgotten how I felt when my mother was in a rage. I still remember walking into school, shaky & trembly & wanting to go somewhere and cry, but I couldn't because I was at school. Plus, my little sister was w/ me, & I had to put on a brave face & tell her that everything was okay & that our mom would be fine & she didn't mean what she'd yelled at us.

So, I will admit, too, when I read some of the responses to my post that said things like every parent gets upset, I felt a little minimized (even if that wasn't the intention) & wanted to protest - "But not like this!" "You weren't there."

And, then, I found myself thinking, "Well, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm remembering it all wrong, & it wasn't that bad." So, when Tipsy Traveler posted that it wasn't okay, there was a bit of relief on my part. Just hearing someone else saying, "You know what? That wasn't okay" helped. For a minute, the little girl that I used to be was seen.

(And, I *do* have anxiety. I am shy & nervous. I am a people-pleaser & worry all the time about everything. But I also think I deal w/ it okay too. A lot of people are surprised when they find out I'm shy or anxious. )

And, so, posts from Pea helped too - to remember to keep a proper perspective on things, to help me remember that my mom really didn't mean it. If she could go back & change things, she probably would. And I'm grown now, & I've learned how to better handle both my own anxiety & worry & also how to see my mother w/ more mature, adult eyes.

Again, I love my mother. We are having a family get together for a birthday this Sunday, & I will most likely be absolutely fine.

So, seriously, I didn't mean to start anything. I have appreciated all the comments, & I'm grateful for the support & encouragement.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

You didn't "start" anything, @Wendy31. This is the Internet; things are bound to go off the rails occasionally.

I could relate to many of your posts all too well (right down to what the rides to school were like) and if you ever want a listening ear, I'm happy to talk with you through PM.

 

[nancygirl1]

.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Oy. I did not realize the point I was making -- Child abuse is inexcusable, period -- was so controversial and would result in such pushback. Perhaps one day my heart will soften and I'll develop the wisdom and maturity to change my views on that.

Pea, I don't know what's going on on your side of the screen, but I'm not trying to upset you or argue with you or whatever. I'm just frustrated that conversations like this are still taking place in this day and age. Our society needs to take a hardline approach on matters of abuse (of many types) and say we will not excuse the people who perpetuate it, ever. Understand abuse's cyclical and generational nature? Sure. Forgive them? Sure, if that's what their victims choose to do for their own healing. But I keep trying to get you to see eye-to-eye with me on this one simple concept that there are no excuses for a parent to be abusive towards their child, but no matter what I say or how I say it -- I've tried plain speak, I've tried an analogy, I've tried relating to you through our similar experiences, I've tried explaining how our environments affect our perceptions of normalcy -- no matter how I try, you just keep coming back with, "I'm not excusing it but.... being a mom is stressful, death bed regrets, I'd need to know that battered wife's background, here's a research study proving that parenting is stressful..." And you're doing it with a heavy helping of condescension, in case you weren't aware.

I tried my best to get you to understand me, but apparently failed. I don't think there's anything else I can contribute here. We're just too far apart in our views, it seems.

I have been beating that drum for 30yrs. I am older now. Reality is a hard pill to swallow and you are having real difficulty with it, the way I read your post above.

I work on the NOW. I don't know how to explain THAT to you. I am in a different phase than you.

I am not brushing anything off. I want to work on TODAY. I don't feel like going through my laundry l list of yesteryear. I am 52. I am living NOW, not lamenting my past. It is not useful to me, I'm busy with the NOW.

The fact that you want to spend post time on the fact that people are abusive is YOUR sticking point. It is what YOU need to work on in your own life. That is really the big reveal here for you.

I am way past that and juggling NOW a couple bi polar 1's & other mental illnesses currently, anxiety, depression, psychotic episodes, etc.

What exactly are you trying to get across?

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I have been beating that drum for 30yrs. I am older now. Reality is a hard pill to swallow and you are having real difficulty with it, the way I read your post above.

I work on the NOW. I don't know how to explain THAT to you. I am in a different phase than you.

I am not brushing anything off. I want to work on TODAY. I don't feel like going through my laundry l list of yesteryear. I am 52. I am living NOW, not lamenting my past. It is not useful to me, I'm busy with the NOW.

The fact that you want to spend post time on the fact that people are abusive is YOUR sticking point. It is what YOU need to work on in your own life. That is really the big reveal here for you.

I am way past that and juggling NOW a couple bi polar 1's & other mental illnesses currently, anxiety, depression, psychotic episodes, etc.

What exactly are you trying to get across?

I say this honestly and not snarkily -- I don't understand most of your post. I can't make sense of what you're referring to in paragraphs 1-3 and 5, so I'll just address number 4.

• Wendy posted about an incident from her childhood.
• I told her that incident crossed the line into abuse and there was no excuse for it.
• Other people then minimized it and made excuses for it.
• It bothered me that, instead of supporting Wendy, people rushed to defend how hard it is to be a mom (as though that in any way could justify some of the things her mother said and did to her).
• I said as much.
• We went around and around in circles.
• I threw my hands up and went off to binge watch Stranger Things, hoping that when it was done I would reemerge into a world that no longer makes excuses for abusers.

If the "big reveal here" about me is that I think child abuse is inexcusable, I'm okay with that. In fact, I hope my views on that never change. In case anyone wants ideas for other thread topics, I also have strong, unwavering views about sexual assault, elder abuse, apartheid, human trafficking, dog fighting, and more. I try to be open minded about many things, but some topics only have clear right and wrong sides, IMO.