Another WWYD

[Gumbo4x4]

Okay, so DD13 did not test well enough to get into Advanced English for 8th grade. There are about 200 kids & only 25 get in. She's really disappointed and we're going to try to push to see if there's anything we can do. Under normal circumstances, we'd just say that's how life goes, but there are a couple extenuating circumstances.

1) The 7th graders are not split up academically. They are grouped based on who's in band, who's in orchestra, and who's in choir. So, all the 7th grade
English classes have a "mix" of students. There are 3 7th grade English teachers (Mrs A, Mrs B, and Mrs F), and all 25 kids who tested high enough to make the advanced class for next year came from Mrs A's classes. So, it already seems odd that not 1 kid from any of Mrs B's or Mrs F's classes made it in. Clearly, Mrs A has "coached" her kids on how to take the test which DD13 has said was very subjective in nature.

2) For several years, the entire district has pretty well felt the valedictorian of the class of 2019 would come down to 1 of 2 kids, DD13 being 1 of those 2. She's 1 of 5 kids of about 60 from her elementary school to score all A's K-6, and the only 1 of ~200 district wide to score advanced on all sections of the standardized tests each of the years it was administered. Bottom line, as one of the best students in the school already, she is especially good come test time, typically anyway. In short, she really has been that mythical DIS kid who has the perfect academic record

3) English is DD13's strongest subject; she intends (at this point) to major in English in college. Mrs F - DD13's teacher - was livid when she found out DD13 didn't make advanced, and it was her prodding that led to the discovery that all 25 kids who did came exclusively from Mrs A's classes. She is now going to bat for DD13 and a handful of her other students who she considers obvious choices for the 8th grade advanced class. To her knowledge, having all the kids come from ONE teacher is not something that's happened previously. The teacher who will actually teach advanced English is also somewhat puzzled and is actually fond of DD13 and had pretty much planned to have her in her class next year (DW works for the district and knows her).


So, the question is, how much do we get involved here? Do we sit back and let Mrs F fight this battle, or do we step in? Or, do we just say, "that's life, and life's not fair" and forget about it? As we understand it, the kids who do not participate in 8th grade Advanced English are very rarely admitted to the Advanced HS English classes, and for someone who plans to be an English major, that would obviously be a real burr under DD's saddle.


Thoughts?

 

[TinkerBelled]

Okay, so DD13 did not test well enough to get into Advanced English for 8th grade. There are about 200 kids & only 25 get in. She's really disappointed and we're going to try to push to see if there's anything we can do. Under normal circumstances, we'd just say that's how life goes, but there are a couple extenuating circumstances.

1) The 7th graders are not split up academically. They are grouped based on who's in band, who's in orchestra, and who's in choir. So, all the 7th grade
English classes have a "mix" of students. There are 3 7th grade English teachers (Mrs A, Mrs B, and Mrs F), and all 25 kids who tested high enough to make the advanced class for next year came from Mrs A's classes. So, it already seems odd that not 1 kid from any of Mrs B's or Mrs F's classes made it in. Clearly, Mrs A has "coached" her kids on how to take the test which DD13 has said was very subjective in nature.

2) For several years, the entire district has pretty well felt the valedictorian of the class of 2019 would come down to 1 of 2 kids, DD13 being 1 of those 2. She's 1 of 5 kids of about 60 from her elementary school to score all A's K-6, and the only 1 of ~200 district wide to score advanced on all sections of the standardized tests each of the years it was administered. Bottom line, as one of the best students in the school already, she is especially good come test time, typically anyway. In short, she really has been that mythical DIS kid who has the perfect academic record

3) English is DD13's strongest subject; she intends (at this point) to major in English in college. Mrs F - DD13's teacher - was livid when she found out DD13 didn't make advanced, and it was her prodding that led to the discovery that all 25 kids who did came exclusively from Mrs A's classes. She is now going to bat for DD13 and a handful of her other students who she considers obvious choices for the 8th grade advanced class. To her knowledge, having all the kids come from ONE teacher is not something that's happened previously. The teacher who will actually teach advanced English is also somewhat puzzled and is actually fond of DD13 and had pretty much planned to have her in her class next year (DW works for the district and knows her).


So, the question is, how much do we get involved here? Do we sit back and let Mrs F fight this battle, or do we step in? Or, do we just say, "that's life, and life's not fair" and forget about it? As we understand it, the kids who do not participate in 8th grade Advanced English are very rarely admitted to the Advanced HS English classes, and for someone who plans to be an English major, that would obviously be a real burr under DD's saddle.


Thoughts?

I think this is one of those situations where you step in. I'm not one for helicopter parenting, but isn't a classic hp situation (it's not something your daughter can do herself, for instance).

I'd talk to Mrs. F and see what she thinks would be the most helpful way to proceed. Working in partnership will help the administration/powers that be see that this isn't a whining parent, it's a reasonable request that both educator and parent agree upon.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Okay, so DD13 did not test well enough to get into Advanced English for 8th grade. There are about 200 kids & only 25 get in. She's really disappointed and we're going to try to push to see if there's anything we can do. Under normal circumstances, we'd just say that's how life goes, but there are a couple extenuating circumstances.

1) The 7th graders are not split up academically. They are grouped based on who's in band, who's in orchestra, and who's in choir. So, all the 7th grade
English classes have a "mix" of students. There are 3 7th grade English teachers (Mrs A, Mrs B, and Mrs F), and all 25 kids who tested high enough to make the advanced class for next year came from Mrs A's classes. So, it already seems odd that not 1 kid from any of Mrs B's or Mrs F's classes made it in. Clearly, Mrs A has "coached" her kids on how to take the test which DD13 has said was very subjective in nature.

2) For several years, the entire district has pretty well felt the valedictorian of the class of 2019 would come down to 1 of 2 kids, DD13 being 1 of those 2. She's 1 of 5 kids of about 60 from her elementary school to score all A's K-6, and the only 1 of ~200 district wide to score advanced on all sections of the standardized tests each of the years it was administered. Bottom line, as one of the best students in the school already, she is especially good come test time, typically anyway. In short, she really has been that mythical DIS kid who has the perfect academic record

3) English is DD13's strongest subject; she intends (at this point) to major in English in college. Mrs F - DD13's teacher - was livid when she found out DD13 didn't make advanced, and it was her prodding that led to the discovery that all 25 kids who did came exclusively from Mrs A's classes. She is now going to bat for DD13 and a handful of her other students who she considers obvious choices for the 8th grade advanced class. To her knowledge, having all the kids come from ONE teacher is not something that's happened previously. The teacher who will actually teach advanced English is also somewhat puzzled and is actually fond of DD13 and had pretty much planned to have her in her class next year (DW works for the district and knows her).


So, the question is, how much do we get involved here? Do we sit back and let Mrs F fight this battle, or do we step in? Or, do we just say, "that's life, and life's not fair" and forget about it? As we understand it, the kids who do not participate in 8th grade Advanced English are very rarely admitted to the Advanced HS English classes, and for someone who plans to be an English major, that would obviously be a real burr under DD's saddle.


Thoughts?

My first thought is to ask Mrs. F what she thinks. Would it help her to make a case if you were involved or not in her opinion? I'd take her advice. I'd also ask if Mrs. F would want you to gather a synopsis of your DD's grades and such to help from the sidelines.

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Mrs F actually suggested throwing her under the bus and claiming she obviously didn't do her job coaching her class. We didn't think that was such a good plan. But, Mrs F is leaving at the end of the year and said she didn't care what they thought of her.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Mrs F actually suggested throwing her under the bus and claiming she obviously didn't do her job coaching her class. We didn't think that was such a good plan. But, Mrs F is leaving at the end of the year and said she didn't care what they thought of her.

She suggested throwing herself under the bus for your DD? That's sweet.

I like her spunk. Not caring what they think on her way out. She obviously thinks highly of your DD and wants to see her succeed. Good person to have in your corner.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

She suggested throwing herself under the bus for your DD? That's sweet.

I like her spunk. Not caring what they think on her way out. She obviously thinks highly of your DD and wants to see her succeed. Good person to have in your corner.

Yeah, we really like her a lot. It's been a really good fit (to be fair, we've only had 1 teacher in all 8 years that we considered a "bad" fit). But, as much as I appreciate the gesture, I don't know if that's an effective approach anyway.

 

[Hrhpd]

Okay, so DD13 did not test well enough to get into Advanced English for 8th grade. There are about 200 kids & only 25 get in. She's really disappointed and we're going to try to push to see if there's anything we can do. Under normal circumstances, we'd just say that's how life goes, but there are a couple extenuating circumstances.

1) The 7th graders are not split up academically. They are grouped based on who's in band, who's in orchestra, and who's in choir. So, all the 7th grade
English classes have a "mix" of students. There are 3 7th grade English teachers (Mrs A, Mrs B, and Mrs F), and all 25 kids who tested high enough to make the advanced class for next year came from Mrs A's classes. So, it already seems odd that not 1 kid from any of Mrs B's or Mrs F's classes made it in. Clearly, Mrs A has "coached" her kids on how to take the test which DD13 has said was very subjective in nature.

2) For several years, the entire district has pretty well felt the valedictorian of the class of 2019 would come down to 1 of 2 kids, DD13 being 1 of those 2. She's 1 of 5 kids of about 60 from her elementary school to score all A's K-6, and the only 1 of ~200 district wide to score advanced on all sections of the standardized tests each of the years it was administered. Bottom line, as one of the best students in the school already, she is especially good come test time, typically anyway. In short, she really has been that mythical DIS kid who has the perfect academic record

3) English is DD13's strongest subject; she intends (at this point) to major in English in college. Mrs F - DD13's teacher - was livid when she found out DD13 didn't make advanced, and it was her prodding that led to the discovery that all 25 kids who did came exclusively from Mrs A's classes. She is now going to bat for DD13 and a handful of her other students who she considers obvious choices for the 8th grade advanced class. To her knowledge, having all the kids come from ONE teacher is not something that's happened previously. The teacher who will actually teach advanced English is also somewhat puzzled and is actually fond of DD13 and had pretty much planned to have her in her class next year (DW works for the district and knows her).


So, the question is, how much do we get involved here? Do we sit back and let Mrs F fight this battle, or do we step in? Or, do we just say, "that's life, and life's not fair" and forget about it? As we understand it, the kids who do not participate in 8th grade Advanced English are very rarely admitted to the Advanced HS English classes, and for someone who plans to be an English major, that would obviously be a real burr under DD's saddle.


Thoughts?

Sorry, you lost me when you said the district has already picked their high school valedictorians in elementary school.

What a sad realization for the other kids knowing that your elementary school grades are what tracks you for the highest honor.

I would be moving out of a district that tracks like that.

However, if that is not an option, I would follow the sage advice of OceanAnnie and ask the teacher how you can help her cause. You certainly do not want to undermine her efforts by coming in full force as an Apache Long Bow. Work with her teacher and follow her advice on how to support her.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Sorry, you lost me when you said the district has already picked their high school valedictorians in elementary school.

What a sad realization for the other kids knowing that your elementary school grades are what tracks you for the highest honor.

I would be moving out of a district that tracks like that.

However, if that is not an option, I would follow the sage advice of OceanAnnie and ask the teacher how you can help her cause. You certainly do not want to undermine her efforts by coming in full force as an Apache Long Bow. Work with her teacher and follow her advice on how to support her.

I think I was unclear about that. What I meant is that is the presumption by the teachers within the district who've watched these kids grow up. DD and one other girl have always been sort of in a class by themselves academically. There is nothing "official".



Back to the WWYD, Mrs S teaches the advanced class. Do we approach her?

 

[OceanAnnie]

I think I was unclear about that. What I meant is that is the presumption by the teachers within the district who've watched these kids grow up. DD and one other girl have always been sort of in a class by themselves academically. There is nothing "official".



Back to the WWYD, Mrs S teaches the advanced class. Do we approach her?

If it were me, I'd ask Mrs. F if she plans to involve Mrs. S. Power of persuasion. I bet she would if you suggested it. Let those two go to bat for your DD. It would pack a lot more punch if those two got together. Let it happen "naturally" (with a question from you).

 

[Poohforyou]

Has her teacher discussed this with the principal and/or the language arts program director? I'd take her lead on this.

For what it's worth my dd didn't get into honor language arts in middle school. She had the class grades for it and did well enough on the placement test but her teacher recommendation wasn't high enough. I battled it a bit but didn't want to push it too far. Our district does allow kids to get into high school honor classes without being in them in middle school which is why I didn't push it. Dd is now a freshman with an A average in honors English.

IMO, I wouldn't hang your hat on your dd being valedictorian. High school is a completely different ball game than elementary and middle school. Some kids are late bloomers and really come into their own others have peaked early and drop to the middle of the pack.

 

[shortbun]

Seems like you have some good plans and information. Follow the teacher's advice. But, if you fail(and failing doesn't kill you, btw) then you put yourself in charge of enriching your daughter's education. My husband and I always do that with our son's education. This year, we've taken him to see art exhibits that apply to his English and History classes as well as watching a couple of films that are about his studies focus. We also invited a friend who was the science guru for our state in the past to discuss Physics(his focus) with our son throughout the year, while we socialized with he and his family. Another friend who teaches writing for the Thurber House here spent lots of time with him regarding writing and free lance opportunities. We took her son to play golf and tennis a few times-our son mentored hers. You have the resources to enrich your child's life. I recommend you do it.

 

[Bluestars]

I think you should definitely get involved in advocating on behalf of your daughter. My son was in honors English in the 8th grade, but his average wasn't high enough for him to be in honors English in the 9th grade. I think he got a B in the class. However, his test scores in English and reading have always been at the top of the national scores.

He ended up taking standard English in 9th and 10th grade. It was not a good fit at all. He did very well, but since English was where he excelled, it was such a waste. He did move to honors in 11th grade. I wish I had stepped up and talked to the school administrators for his 9th grade year. I am not one to step in, so I stayed out of it. It's the one regret I had for his high school years.

Good luck to you on behalf of your daughter. It sounds like she belongs in the honors class.

 

[Tinijocaro]

Not being in an advanced 8th grade class should not hold any bright student back. AP classes in high school are the classes that really matter. At least in our district, any kid can sign up to take Ap classes as long as they have decent grades in regular classes.

DS was not in any of the " advanced "classes during middle school and wasn't considered one who would excel in high school due to average effort during middle school.

Once high school hit, he took every AP class he could, quickly rose through the ranks and graduated number nine out of 400. He received a presidential scholarship to our state university that covers everything-tuition, books, housing, food. He was the only one in the top ten of his class to get a free ride.

DS did not take advanced science or math when it was offered in 8th grade due to not being recommended. He is now a physics/math double major.

I honestly don't think 8th grade classes make a huge difference in the end.

 

[diznygirl]

The first question to ask administration is Why did all the students come from one class? There really can be no logical answer to that - the chances of all the students who did well coming from one class are astronomical. The administration has to look into why this occurred. Did that teacher coach them well, or "coach" them well (specifically tell her students how to beat the test). It could mean the students take the test again.

I agree that the teacher saying SHE didn't do a good enough job is not the way to go. I would definitely follow up on this.

Good luck.

 

[teller80]

IMO, I wouldn't hang your hat on your dd being valedictorian. High school is a completely different ball game than elementary and middle school. Some kids are late bloomers and really come into their own others have peaked early and drop to the middle of the pack.

Completely agree. I've seen stars become duds and vise versa.

 

[JessicaR]

The first question to ask administration is Why did all the students come from one class? There really can be no logical answer to that - the chances of all the students who did well coming from one class are astronomical. The administration has to look into why this occurred. Did that teacher coach them well, or "coach" them well (specifically tell her students how to beat the test). It could mean the students take the test again.

I agree that the teacher saying SHE didn't do a good enough job is not the way to go. I would definitely follow up on this.

Good luck.

This is my thought as well. Something is wrong and I would be taking this statistic to task with the school.

 

[pigletgirl]

You can definitely fight it, but the scores on tests are pretty telling. Even if she's in regular 9th grade English she still CAN be an English major and do what she wants with that. This is not an end all be all type of deal. I had friends who were in ALL AP classes throughout high school that did not do well in college.

Again, go with your gut. You know your daughter the most and the situation at hand. Good luck OP!

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Okay, so DD13 did not test well enough to get into Advanced English for 8th grade.

In what way? What happened?

I have known some parents who "pushed" to get their kids in advanced classes despite teacher recommendations. In some cases it worked out, and in others it didn't. It sounds like she'll be fine, though, but I agree, a lot can happen.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

In short, she really has been that mythical DIS kid who has the perfect academic record

I guess so!! Valedictorian from elementary! Wow!

 

[Wendy31]

Normally, I wouldn't get involved in something like this.

However, like some of the other OPs, I'm wondering why the only students that apparently tested high enough were from just one class?

That seems way too much of a coincidence to me, & I think I'd be questioning that. I'm surprised the 2 other teachers from the 2 other classes & other parents aren't looking into this aspect as well.

I know you said your DD's teacher is willing "to go to bat" for her, but, your daughter aside, there has to be some reason why the students who scored high enough are only from one class, &, if I were one of the other two teachers, I'd want to know.