Another WWYD

[sk!mom]

Actually, in most school districts the scores are only confidential when associated with specific student names. The raw data itself is pretty widely available and is used for a variety of purposes. They are, after all, just numbers; including names with numbers is what requires confidentiality. I know in our small school, if a parent asks, they can be told in which percentile their child scored, or what the child's class rank is- both for the entire class and within each subject, so knowing that your child is #2 in ELA or top 10 in math isn't uncommon. I am pretty sure that Mrs. Gumbo4X4 understands the concept of confidentiality and how it relates to her job security.

Absolutely but the information he says he has is not statistical and public. He claims to know who is above his daughter and the scores.

"DW is a clerk for the district. One of her jobs is to compile the test scores. She doesn't know all the names of all the top scorers from the other elementary school (we have just 2 in our district), but she has inquired into the top scores. DD is consistently top 10 in Math & Science, & #2 in language arts. Another girl is consistently #1 in language and is in a league of her own (that girl's mom is a 6th grade teacher and a really good one). DD is always a pretty big gap behind #1 and then there is another big gap before "all the rest"."

I believe that her job is to compile these scores and "forget them" not share them with her DH.

 

[leebee]

But that is not what Mr. Gumbo said. He knows who the child that is outscoring his daughter and how big the gaps are between the top child and his daughter. In other words, Mrs. Gumbo is indeed sharing individual data of children, not just statistical data.

If Mrs. Gumbo was not sharing individual data, then he would not know the #1 child's mother was a 6th grade teacher in the district.

That is not sharing overall statistics, that is sharing data by child.

Unless, of course, this girl has been #1 in language consistently and either she or her mother have made it known. It's not like parents don't brag about their kid, right? Yes, I know it's not the context within which Gumbo presented it, but it's quite possible that this is how he has this info, is it not? It's also not a question of confidentiality for a counselor to say, "Well, young Miss Gumbo4X4 was #2 in math- with a substantial gap between her score and the rest of the class." Might not be what any other parent would want to know is being shared, but it's NOT a violation of confidentiality… not unless the counselor said, "And I see MissJambayla was #3, behind Miss Gumbo by quite a FEW points." Then you have a legal issue. As long as students being discussed are not discussed as individuals, and not discussed in a manner by which you can identify them (i.e., I see that the long haired blond with glasses fell in the "below expectations" group- or some such identifying physical or behavioral information), it's not a violation of confidentiality.

I'd be WAY more curious as to how all 25 kids in the honors class all happen to come from the same class this year. Class size is usually pretty small in most schools, but even a big class is maybe about 32 kids. Using 32 kids as an upper limit class size, this estimates that there are 96 kids in Gumbo's daughter's class. IF the classes are randomly assigned (that is, not all top students in one class, all struggling students in another), there should be about 8 kids from each english class chosen to be in next year's honors class. Even if the statistics as skewed a bit, it's still extremely unlikely that ALL 25 kids would come from the same english class. ALL of them? It sounds to me like that teacher knows what is taught in the honors class and has either been pre-teaching it as her own curriculum, or has been coaching/doing outright specific test prep.

 

[NewRVLady]

BTW-I live in an area of 130,000 plus people

3 huge public high schools 4-6 private ones-so I couldn't see predicting the valedictorian from 7th grade scores

I clicked on OP's Trip report in his signature. it seems he lives in a town of 13,000 so maybe peeps DO know what everyone's grades are?

 

[Ceila]

Meh, frankly I'd prefer our school handle it as they do. They don't spend any time prepping for the MAP test.

Sorry, but no, you cannot blame not spending time on test prep as an excuse for a district's poor performance. Neither the district where I teach, nor where my kids attend, spend any time on test prep, yet we consistently have a high number of students scoring at the advanced level.

I'm not a proponent of standardized testing for a variety of reasons. However, it does have use as one part of the assessment of a district's ability to educate students. Although I wouldn't normally use just that to decide what district to live in, if a school district can only produce only one student in a grade who can score in the advanced range consistently, then something is seriously flawed in the district.

As others in this thread already have said, though, I question your wife's access, and personal use, of the testing data. That is highly confidential information, and she should not share that with anyone - including her spouse.

 

[aprilgail2]

Not being in an advanced 8th grade class should not hold any bright student back. AP classes in high school are the classes that really matter. At least in our district, any kid can sign up to take Ap classes as long as they have decent grades in regular classes.

I honestly don't think 8th grade classes make a huge difference in the end.

As a teacher and a parent, my first thought is, what the heck kind of school district limits the number of advanced students to a number? In my experience, most districts want all students capable of advanced work in advanced classes.

.

In 7th grade here they have a test they take to find out if they will make it into pre-ap social studies for 8th grade ( there are only 50 spots available) - those that make it then go into AP classes in 9th grade, if you don't make it with that 7th grade test it changes the classes you get in 9th grade. Same with English. Science they have to be in advanced honors classes in JR. High to get into the 9th grade AP Bio class (again only 2 classes) because the advance class does 8th and 9th grade science in one year so if they are not in it in Jr. High then they take Earth Science in 9th grade and can't take AP bio until 12th, giving them only the one AP class. My daughter had AP Bio this year so next year its AP Chem.

Not just any kid can sign up for AP classes-its based on the "track" they were on in Jr. High.

 

[momz]

I'd be WAY more curious as to how all 25 kids in the honors class all happen to come from the same class this year. Class size is usually pretty small in most schools, but even a big class is maybe about 32 kids. Using 32 kids as an upper limit class size, this estimates that there are 96 kids in Gumbo's daughter's class. IF the classes are randomly assigned (that is, not all top students in one class, all struggling students in another), there should be about 8 kids from each english class chosen to be in next year's honors class. Even if the statistics as skewed a bit, it's still extremely unlikely that ALL 25 kids would come from the same english class. ALL of them? It sounds to me like that teacher knows what is taught in the honors class and has either been pre-teaching it as her own curriculum, or has been coaching/doing outright specific test prep.

You are assuming the classes are randomly assigned, which they are not. According to the OP, the classes are assigned based on the kids other activities. He posted that the over acheiving class was full of band members. Now, to be stereotypical perhaps another class is full of jocks...that right there would skew the scores. Clearly the group of musicians would usually score higher than the jocks...in general.

Now..I'm ready...flame me for that one.

 

[msjprincess]

You are assuming the classes are randomly assigned, which they are not. According to the OP, the classes are assigned based on the kids other activities. He posted that the over acheiving class was full of band members. Now, to be stereotypical perhaps another class is full of jocks...that right there would skew the scores. Clearly the group of musicians would usually score higher than the jocks...in general.

Now..I'm ready...flame me for that one.

He said they're separated by band, orchestra and chorus. I wouldn't assume kids in band are any smarter than kids in orchestra or chorus.

 

[momz]

He said they're separated by band, orchestra and chorus. I wouldn't assume kids in band are any smarter than kids in orchestra or chorus.

ah. I didn't recall that part of his posts.

 

[sk!mom]

In 7th grade here they have a test they take to find out if they will make it into pre-ap social studies for 8th grade ( there are only 50 spots available) - those that make it then go into AP classes in 9th grade, if you don't make it with that 7th grade test it changes the classes you get in 9th grade. Same with English. Science they have to be in advanced honors classes in JR. High to get into the 9th grade AP Bio class (again only 2 classes) because the advance class does 8th and 9th grade science in one year so if they are not in it in Jr. High then they take Earth Science in 9th grade and can't take AP bio until 12th, giving them only the one AP class. My daughter had AP Bio this year so next year its AP Chem.

Not just any kid can sign up for AP classes-its based on the "track" they were on in Jr. High.

Our district also requires students to be on a PreAP track through middle school. They must continue to make the required grades in these classes and have teacher recommendations to stay on this track. No student can just decide to sign up for AP or other advanced classes. However, the classes are not limited by an arbitrary number. Every student who qualifies and is capable is encouraged to take the advanced classes. Staffing and the number of sections is decided by the number of qualified students. DD's a senior in a class of 600- a high school of about 2400- maybe a smaller school wouldn't have staffing flexibility.

 

[AnAmericanInDisney]

My son's class just scheduled for their freshman year. There were many hurt feelings over who was chosen for Honors classes and who was not, but the kids all shared their grades with each other, so there were no privacy issues violated. The kids with GIEPs automatically get in, after that entry is based on teacher recommendation and GPA from each class.

If a district employee tried to use their influence to side step that process, parents of other kids who didn't get into Honors classes would be very upset. If you and your wife appeal the initial decision, I would be careful, but I wouldn't blame you, either. It doesn't sound like your school is choosing fairly. Best of luck to your daughter. We all want what's best for our kids.

 

[already]

You are assuming the classes are randomly assigned, which they are not. According to the OP, the classes are assigned based on the kids other activities. He posted that the over acheiving class was full of band members. Now, to be stereotypical perhaps another class is full of jocks...that right there would skew the scores. Clearly the group of musicians would usually score higher than the jocks...in general.

Now..I'm ready...flame me for that one.

Interesting stereo type.

I just attended our High School's National Honor Society induction ceremony. Of the 63 students inducted, more than half of the kids were jocks, members of the state championship track team and football teams, along with basketball and lacrosse.

At our football banquet, 97% of the team made state academic honor teams. Had to have a 3.75 unweighted GPA for the honorable mention team up to a 4.0 unweighted GPA for the academic A team. (Most made the A team.)

Jocks do not equal dumb just as band/orchestra/choir members do not equal awkward nerds. Stereotypes are a bad thing.

 

[NewRVLady]

Jocks do not equal dumb just as band/orchestra/choir members do not equal awkward nerds. Stereotypes are a bad thing.

I agree- 2 of DS's jock buddies are almost finished with their medical degrees

 

[Bluestars]

I agree- 2 of DS's jock buddies are almost finished with their medical degrees

One of the best athletes in my son's school got a nearly perfect score on his ACT test.

 

[cabanafrau]

IMO stay out of it. If your DD is indeed on a path to be valedictorian she needs to get their on her own steam. Support her education & do what you can to supplement where appropriate, but if she's indeed a legitimate candidate she's got to make it happen.

I won't say anymore because I think anything else I have to say will be offensive.

 

[Hannathy]

My DD didn't get put into honors English in 9th grade. Took regular 9th grade English. did well was Ok'd for first AP English, did well, then was Ok'd for second AP English again did well so since there were no more AP English was ok'd to go t the University in town for classes so she took 2 semesters of sophomore English and got A"s. She is now college senior English/technical writing major doing very well!

She was able to do all of this without being put into honors English as a 9th grader.

As far as the valedictorian thing, don't forget why she is in school , is it to learn as much as possible or to be valedictorian? they aren't one and the same always . Don't forget especially if your school isn't weighted, some student who takes all regular classes & no AP's can skate in there with straight A's and take the spot from the AP kids with the hard courses who just may have got a A- somewhere. And a lot of favoritism can come into play in high school.

Also being valedictorian is nice but I wouldn't put that pressure on my kid from 7th grade on, I care more that they are stretching themselves and learning not just going for a grade. Will it color her choices in the future just so she lives up to this demand? But other than bragging rights it doesn't do a whole lot in the real world, doesn't guarantee money or even getting into schools! especially if the school is small or not as rigorous as other schools.

Who grades the tests? I suppose you could ask if the party was neutral and if they were done anonymously. If they were and she just didn't score as well, I'm sorry, but if she didn't she didn't. Some kids don't test well and others test above their ability.

8th grade is awfully early to start fighting with the school, could make for a long 4 yrs ahead. you have to pick your battles.

 

[drinkme]

My DD didn't get put into honors English in 9th grade. Took regular 9th grade English. did well was Ok'd for first AP English, did well, then was Ok'd for second AP English again did well so since there were no more AP English was ok'd to go t the University in town for classes so she took 2 semesters of sophomore English and got A"s. She is now college senior English/technical writing major doing very well! She was able to do all of this without being put into honors English as a 9th grader. As far as the valedictorian thing, don't forget why she is in school , is it to learn as much as possible or to be valedictorian? they aren't one and the same always . Don't forget especially if your school isn't weighted, some student who takes all regular classes & no AP's can skate in there with straight A's and take the spot from the AP kids with the hard courses who just may have got a A- somewhere. And a lot of favoritism can come into play in high school. Also being valedictorian is nice but I wouldn't put that pressure on my kid from 7th grade on, I care more that they are stretching themselves and learning not just going for a grade. Will it color her choices in the future just so she lives up to this demand? But other than bragging rights it doesn't do a whole lot in the real world, doesn't guarantee money or even getting into schools! especially if the school is small or not as rigorous as other schools. Who grades the tests? I suppose you could ask if the party was neutral and if they were done anonymously. If they were and she just didn't score as well, I'm sorry, but if she didn't she didn't. Some kids don't test well and others test above their ability. 8th grade is awfully early to start fighting with the school, could make for a long 4 yrs ahead. you have to pick your battles.

Are there high schools that don't do weighted grades? We didn't have weighted grades in our high school and our valedictorian never took an honor or college prep class. But that was years ago and they changed it the year after my graduation.

I just assumed all high schools had weighted grades. When someone brags that their kid has a 4.0 i don't think it's that impressive. Anyway, I agree with the above post that says putting that much pressure on a 7th grader is too much.

 

[cvjw]

Picking valedictorian in elementary school? That is unrealistic, at best. When my DS was in elementary school, several students made better grades than him, got into the Target (advanced classes) before him, and were considered smarter than him.

Then reality (real hard high school classes) hit. Those students are now going to a 2nd tier college, while my DS is going to a 1st tier college in our state. Elementary and middle school are much, much easier than advanced (magnet, honors and AP) high school classes.

As a parent, if I were in your shoes, I would let the teacher step in first. If that didn't work, I would ask to have my child restested. If she still doesn't score high enough, I would let it drop and have her take the advanced class in high school where it actually counts for something

 

[blana]

Are there high schools that don't do weighted grades? We didn't have weighted grades in our high school and our valedictorian never took an honor or college prep class. But that was years ago and they changed it the year after my graduation.

I just assumed all high schools had weighted grades. When someone brags that their kid has a 4.0 i don't think it's that impressive. Anyway, I agree with the above post that says putting that much pressure on a 7th grader is too much.

Admittedly, I graduated 20 years ago, but the high school I graduated from didn't and still doesn't weight grades. But it's basically a magnet high school for math & science, so the official logic is that all of the classes are honors worthy, so none should be weighted. And, no, I didn't have a 4.0 at graduation.

 

[ilovemk76]

If her teacher is going to bat for her then you need to join her.

 

[zoemurr]

Are there high schools that don't do weighted grades? We didn't have weighted grades in our high school and our valedictorian never took an honor or college prep class. But that was years ago and they changed it the year after my graduation.

I just assumed all high schools had weighted grades. When someone brags that their kid has a 4.0 i don't think it's that impressive. Anyway, I agree with the above post that says putting that much pressure on a 7th grader is too much.

Our school weights, but there is still no really fair way to do it. If two kids are taking the same 5 AP classes and get the same grades (let's say 95) then it is fair. But if one of them also decides to take Latin, Band, and art (and gets 95s in those too) their GPA would be lower since those grades aren't weighted, even though they are doing more work. Also, some kids are two years advanced in math and and/or in science. Those honors classes are weighted the same as the kids who are one year advanced, or on target, as long as the classes are still honors level.

Our school did away with ranking and Val/Sal years ago. Too much drama.