Another WWYD...high school issue

[Lorelei Lee]

I know. I was in drama club in high school. I won't forget being stranded at the school one Saturday afternoon after a rehearsal. The drama club adviser didn't hang around after rehearsal, my parents got delayed for some reason, and came 45 minutes late. It was uncomfortable for me, but no one thought twice about it back then.

My daughter would likely be out of a job if she went home before all of her students were picked up by parents.

 

[mhfrau]

I don't think the part about being required to take the bus back to the school is any big deal. Maybe it's district policy? As for the director leaving while students were still there... That I'm not sure about. On one hand, the "activity" was over when the students were delivered back to the school, and they were allowed to wait in a safe, secure lobby, with at least one school employee present. But on the other hand, I think it's kind of odd, since I think most Coaches or faculty advisors would feel a sense of responsibility as we are talking minors here. It may not be required by law, but I think it's more of a "captain is the last man on ship" kind of thing.

My question would be, since you had already been communicating during the afternoon/evening by cellphone, why didn't you ask your daughter to call when they were leaving the other school so you could just be there waiting? That's what I probably would do, only because I'm an old fart and usually am falling asleep by 10 anyway

 

[Luv Bunnies]

I don't think it's right to leave a group of kids late at night with a janitor. Not that he's not competent, it's not his job to watch them. True, he's in the building. But he has work to do that involves walking throughout the building, sweeping floors, emptying trash, locking doors, etc. He can't possibly stay in one place while the kids get picked up and still do his job. Plus, he probably doesn't get overtime if he doesn't finish cleaning on time. It's not fair to take up his time with a duty that should be performed by a teacher.

I work in an elementary district. Granted, the kids are younger, but there are rules about who supervises kids and who can be alone with them. If your job description does not involve working directly with kids, you cannot supervise or otherwise be responsible for them. These jobs include custodians, maintenance workers, computer technicians, and a few other district office positions. Our campus custodian can direct kids to clean up at lunchtime, walk in the hallways, etc., but he cannot be put in charge of individuals or groups of kids. It's not that he's not trustworthy. He's a really great guy and I would trust him with my own kids. It's just not in his job description and, therefore, cannot be done. We have rules and guidelines that can't be broken just so a teacher can get home 15 minutes earlier.

 

[luvsJack]

That's what I do when I am picking dd up, just have her text me when they are on their way or at a certain point going toward the school (they usually have to pass the turn to my house on the way back so I can time it pretty good)

How old are the majority of the kids? How many were actually left with the janitor?

So many of the kids here either drive or are riding with one another to and from the school that it is rarely more than a couple that would be waiting. Maybe something came up and the director had to leave?

Last year our choir director had a couple of emergencies that made it so he had to leave as soon as the bus got back to the school. He just asked one or two of the parents to hang around and make sure everyone got picked up and left.

I really don't see the janitor being there being a big deal. Maybe he and the director discussed it more than your dd realizes.

 

[richmond282]

I didn't read all the responses, but as a band director I can tell you I NEVER leave a rehearsal, ballgame, competition, etc. until every single student has been picked up. No way would I leave that responsibility to the janitor (nothing against the janitor, but that's not his/her job at all.)

As a parent, I probably would say something to the principal about it.

OTH, it is EXTREMELY annoying when parents don't show up in a reasonable amount of time to pick up their children. I am not a babysitter. If you can't get there within 30 minutes and haven't called to let me know what's going on, I tell the student "You need to find someone to pick you up, or I will be calling the police dept. to come get you and take you home. You are now an abandoned child." Works every time. Miraculously, someone promptly shows up. *I am by no means saying this is what happened in the situation described by the OP.*

 

[Wendy31]

I've been a cheerleading coach. DH has been a volleyball coach & a basketball coach.

Additionally, for many years, DH was a youth pastor.

And we NEVER left until our last student had been picked up. And, yes, sometimes it was a pain!

Before the event, we'd give a general idea of when we expected to return if we were leaving the campus. On our way back to the school or church, after the event was finished, we'd call to let parents know exactly what time we'd be back. And there was always some parent who would wait until we got back before even leaving the house to come pick up his/her child. So frustrating!

Also, we did not have a rule that if you rode to the event on the school/church bus or van to the event, you had to ride back on the school/church bus or van. Our rule was if the student's parent was at the event (or came to the event to pick up his/her child), then the student could leave & ride home w/ the parent - but, after the event, the student needed to "check in" w/ us so we would know for sure he/she was leaving w/ a parent, if that makes sense. On the other hand, we wouldn't let a student leave w/ another student unless we knew in advance & had a note from the student's parent.

 

[mjkacmom]

The procedure in our system is that the bus driver needs a list of all the kids on the bus. If a student is not returning with the group the teacher needs a note in advance from the parent stating that the parent will be picking up the student.

Same here - parents get pissed, but it's a liability issue. Our choir took a bus from NJ to DC for a concert, and some parents attended. Some wanted to drive their kids home, but were not allowed. Same situation at some crew meets. Now, if you give them written notice, in advance, the student can ride home with family, but you can't do it on the spot.

As for leaving the kids with the janitor, I'd have no issue. Parents are on their way, the kids are indoors, I don't see any safety issue. This is high school - I know when ds15 gets home from a practice or game/meet, and the bus drops him off at the high school, a lot of kids just walk home - no one is releasing them to parents.

 

[scrapquitler]

My D is in the high school one-act play. In Minnesota, this is a high school league competitive activity (like football or debate). The sub-sectional competition was yesterday afternoon and evening at a high school which is actually physically closer to my home than the high school she attends (the vagaries of district boundaries!). They left their home high school on a bus at 2 pm for a competition that was supposed to be from about 3 until about 9.

At 8:30, having heard nothing from her about how it was going, I texted her to say "what time will you be done, and can I come and pick you up at competition school" (as this would save a LOT of time). She said "no, the director says we need to go back on the bus." at 9:40, she calls me to say 'results are delayed' and we won't leave here for another 1/2 hour. At that point, I said "look, since it's so late, let me come and pick you up." She asked the director again (I heard this conversation), and again he says "No." I'm not happy because it is LATE, and going to pick her up at the competition school and coming home will get her here at least 40 minutes sooner. (She has to get up at 6 am to make her bus).

They finally get on their way home shortly after 10, and I leave to go get her....arriving around 10:30 (roads were icy and snow covered, so traveling was slow). As I drove in, I saw the director drive off in his car. My D gets in the car, and I notice a half dozen other cast members still in the lobby of the school. I asked her why Mr. X left when there were still kids waiting to be picked up. She said "well, the janitor is still there."

Ack. I don't think that's ok...to leave a bunch of high schoolers (9-12 grade....my D is 9th) alone in a school lobby at 10:30 at night with only the janitor to "watch" them. I don't think that's in the janitor's job description. Plus, as I say, the roads were a mess. I white knuckled it there and back. It's not impossible or even wildly speculative to think a parent could have had trouble getting there.

I'm debating whether to "say something" to the administration. On the one hand, I think it's wrong to leave even high schoolers by themselves that late at night in the school. On the other hand, I do not want to be "that" parent that complains....in particular, I'm concerned about jeopardizing her chances of being cast in future productions. She's only a 9th grader (and technically, she's actually an 8th grader taking high school classes), and has a few more years to go at THIS school with THIS director.

WWYD?

I would have no issue with any of the above.

first. at my high school daughter's school, they also would not have allowed a parent to pick up the child at the location of the competition. Once you are on a field trip or sports event that is school sponsored, you have to stay with the group until the end of the event (and that includes transportation) because the school or adult leading the event has to keep track of everyone and having kids leave from a different place can get confusing.

second, I have no problem with them being left in the school lobby. In fact, at my daughter's school, they would be required to wait outside. They wouldn't have even been allowed in the lobby.

 

[mjkacmom]

I've been a cheerleading coach. DH has been a volleyball coach & a basketball coach.

Additionally, for many years, DH was a youth pastor.

And we NEVER left until our last student had been picked up. And, yes, sometimes it was a pain!

Before the event, we'd give a general idea of when we expected to return if we were leaving the campus. On our way back to the school or church, after the event was finished, we'd call to let parents know exactly what time we'd be back. And there was always some parent who would wait until we got back before even leaving the house to come pick up his/her child. So frustrating!

Also, we did not have a rule that if you rode to the event on the school/church bus or van to the event, you had to ride back on the school/church bus or van. Our rule was if the student's parent was at the event (or came to the event to pick up his/her child), then the student could leave & ride home w/ the parent - but, after the event, the student needed to "check in" w/ us so we would know for sure he/she was leaving w/ a parent, if that makes sense. On the other hand, we wouldn't let a student leave w/ another student unless we knew in advance & had a note from the student's parent.

Were these high school teams?

 

[mnrose]

Just a note. I did have her text me when the bus left the competition school. The bus beat me to the school....because of bad roads, and them being slightly closer. It's not like I deliberately left her to wait there. I was trying to time it so that I arrived before she did, but it didn't happen.

I don't know how many kids were there. I saw maybe a 1/2 dozen in the lobby when D came out. There were maybe 9 people in the cast, and 2-3 "techies."

I'm now leaning toward a note to the director to (a) thank him for all his work in getting the play produced (I know it is a HUGE, generally thankless job), (b) asking him to clarify the policy about the students leaving an event with a parent rather than on the bus (since last year the cast rode a bus TO the competition, but we were REQUIRED to pick them up at the competition site). I'm trying to think of a non-confrontational way to ask about the students being left unsupervised. I don't want to make a big deal out of it, but I do want to understand what is reasonable for me to expect in the future.

 

[mnrose]

I would have no issue with any of the above.

first. at my high school daughter's school, they also would not have allowed a parent to pick up the child at the location of the competition. Once you are on a field trip or sports event that is school sponsored, you have to stay with the group until the end of the event (and that includes transportation) because the school or adult leading the event has to keep track of everyone and having kids leave from a different place can get confusing.

second, I have no problem with them being left in the school lobby. In fact, at my daughter's school, they would be required to wait outside. They wouldn't have even been allowed in the lobby.

That would be downright dangerous in Minnesota in January. It was -2 last night when I picked her up, with a stiff wind. I have no clue what the "wind chill" was, but it was definitely too cold to just stand around outside. No school here would ever do that without risking serious legal liability.

 

[Axel]

Usually when it comes to picking kids up from events, it's either one or the other: you HAVE to get them from the event or they HAVE to take the bus back. At my high school, I had to bring in a note for each and every event where I wouldn't be taking the bus back to either a school-approved drop-off point (with 9 sending towns, my high school's district was very expansive and had drop-offs at either end of the main road through the district so parents didn't have to travel quite as far). On one occasion, I had to get a note signed by the principal because I wouldn't be taking a bus TO the competition. So I'm not at all surprised that you weren't allowed to pick her up from the competition.

As for the director leaving before all the students were picked up, while I think he was wrong to have done so, there WAS an adult present to watch them and they were inside the building. I'm not sure that anything would happen beyond a light slap on the wrist for the director.

 

[Wendy31]

Were these high school teams?

Some were; some weren't.

I coached varsity cheerleading, so the girls were high school. DH coached varsity volleyball, so the girls were high school. He coached middle school basketball, so the boys were 6th, 7th, & 8th. One year, he also coached elementary basketball.

Our youth group was 7th through 12th grades. DH was the youth pastor for over 10 years.

And, in all our years working w/ kids, we just never left any of them. We were always the last to leave.

 

[mom2rtk]

I didn't read all the responses, but as a band director I can tell you I NEVER leave a rehearsal, ballgame, competition, etc. until every single student has been picked up. No way would I leave that responsibility to the janitor (nothing against the janitor, but that's not his/her job at all.)

As a parent, I probably would say something to the principal about it.

OTH, it is EXTREMELY annoying when parents don't show up in a reasonable amount of time to pick up their children. I am not a babysitter. If you can't get there within 30 minutes and haven't called to let me know what's going on, I tell the student "You need to find someone to pick you up, or I will be calling the police dept. to come get you and take you home. You are now an abandoned child." Works every time. Miraculously, someone promptly shows up. *I am by no means saying this is what happened in the situation described by the OP.*

Seems like a great approach to me. I like your style!

 

[scoutie]

I'm a junior high school speech coach and you can't leave kids unattended. That said, although your daughter said, "Well, there's a janitor there", it's possible the the teacher put somebody in charge because he had to get home to his own kids or whatever reason.

Also, we have a rule that kids can't just be released as it's a liability issue.

 

[JanaDee]

Same here - parents get pissed, but it's a liability issue. Our choir took a bus from NJ to DC for a concert, and some parents attended. Some wanted to drive their kids home, but were not allowed. Same situation at some crew meets. Now, if you give them written notice, in advance, the student can ride home with family, but you can't do it on the spot.

In our district, parents can take their own kids home from an event/activity, as long as they sign the sign out sheet the coach/teacher/director has. We only need advance notice if we are taking a child home that is not ours.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

In our district, parents can take their own kids home from an event/activity, as long as they sign the sign out sheet the coach/teacher/director has. We only need advance notice if we are taking a child home that is not ours.

Makes sense. You have to have a way to keep track of children. A written record that the child was released to the parents works.

 

[Mkrop]

I would speak to the director, not admin. When my dad coached, it was policy that a coach stayed until all kids were gone, janitor or not. The janitor has a job to do, and babysitting kids isn't part of it.

The bus thing is pretty common. My school was never a fan of students using private transportation to or from events, even those where the "away" school was closer to home than the school they attend (same boundary issues here). Special exceptions were made on occasion if you made arrangements ahead of time, but not when it was "on the fly".

I didn't read all the responses, but as a band director I can tell you I NEVER leave a rehearsal, ballgame, competition, etc. until every single student has been picked up. No way would I leave that responsibility to the janitor (nothing against the janitor, but that's not his/her job at all.)

As a parent, I probably would say something to the principal about it.

OTH, it is EXTREMELY annoying when parents don't show up in a reasonable amount of time to pick up their children. I am not a babysitter. If you can't get there within 30 minutes and haven't called to let me know what's going on, I tell the student "You need to find someone to pick you up, or I will be calling the police dept. to come get you and take you home. You are now an abandoned child." Works every time. Miraculously, someone promptly shows up. *I am by no means saying this is what happened in the situation described by the OP.*

I have never heard of a coach/teacher not staying with the kids, that just doesnt happen at DS16's school. Now maybe there was an exentuating circumstance that made it so the the director had to leave and it was cleared that the children could be left with the janitor but on a regular basis that would never happen.

We also have it written out in field trip forms etc that parents need to be at the school on time to pick their children up and the coaches/teachers have other things to do.

When DS16 had away games for football or baseball, same coach actually, his policy was that the player needed a note beforehand of WHO was picking the child up and many times he made us wave at him from the sidelines before he released DS. I know one time he was playing down in DE, my brother offered to bring DS home for me as he worked a few blocks away. I had to send a note saying who it was that was picking him, and my brother went over and got him and the coach shook my brother's hand and introduced himself, then DS could go.

 

[malibuconlee]

As I see it, there are two issues going on.

There may have been legitimate reasons the director would not allow you to pick up your daughter at the other school, so I'm not going to comment about that.

But I agree, you should address your concerns to the school about the director leaving while children were still waiting to be picked up. What if one of those parents didn't show up? My daughter coaches high school cheerleading, and when she takes the girls to an away game or a competition, she doesn't leave until the last cheerleader has been accounted for.

When I was in school a million years ago, if we were doing anything other than riding the bus home from an event we had to take a note in to the athletic director's office. After that they either made note of it and we gave it to the coach or they somehow notified the coach. I remember taking notes into the AD office.

My sister changed schools and they did something similar to leaving kids with the janitor. My mom had HUGE problems with this and other things they did, but my husband went to her new school and said they had always done it that way. At our school the coach/band director/whoever was in charge stayed until all the kids drove off or were picked up.

 

[scoutie]

Oops...duplicate.