Another WWYD...high school issue

[Gumbo4x4]

Thinking back, in my day the reason never to leave the kids unattended was probably more to protect the school from vandalism than to protect the kids from harm

 

[Dizneefamily+4]

I haven't read through the replies, but I do have to say, that often, kids are required to take the bus back to school after events. On the other hand, at sporting events where the athletes take the bus after school to their game at another school, parents are often allowed to take their kids home after the game as long as they sign them out with the coach. My dh is a high school teacher and baseball coach and a middle school Cross Country coach. This is common practice. Of course, you get the parents who take their kids without signing them out, and as the adult in charge of those kids , my dh winds up having to call the parents to make sure they have their kid, but I digress...

Now as to the director leaving, imo, that's not acceptable. Doesn't matter that they're high schoolers. Again, as a high school coach, my dh (or one of the assistant coaches) is not allowed to leave the school after practice or a game until every last student is picked up. I thought that was common practice.

 

[luvsJack]

Just a note. I did have her text me when the bus left the competition school. The bus beat me to the school....because of bad roads, and them being slightly closer. It's not like I deliberately left her to wait there. I was trying to time it so that I arrived before she did, but it didn't happen.

I don't know how many kids were there. I saw maybe a 1/2 dozen in the lobby when D came out. There were maybe 9 people in the cast, and 2-3 "techies."

I'm now leaning toward a note to the director to (a) thank him for all his work in getting the play produced (I know it is a HUGE, generally thankless job), (b) asking him to clarify the policy about the students leaving an event with a parent rather than on the bus (since last year the cast rode a bus TO the competition, but we were REQUIRED to pick them up at the competition site). I'm trying to think of a non-confrontational way to ask about the students being left unsupervised. I don't want to make a big deal out of it, but I do want to understand what is reasonable for me to expect in the future.

Well, first I wouldn't say they were left unsupervised because they weren't.

But, if it was me, I might say something to the effect of "any time you need to leave and need help in supervising the kids that are waiting, let me know" and then of course, I would be willing to do just that.

Normally, ime, that will get the response of "no, no, our policy doesn't require the teacher to stay" or "thanks, I was in a bind this last time luckily Mr. Janitor was willing to stay with them" or something to sort of let you know what was going on.

 

[aprilgail2]

In high school?-being left waiting for parent is not an issue to me. when they are in high school. At least they can wait inside, so its not like they are outside in the cold. If it upsets a parent so much then that parent should make sure they are there WAY ahead of time so they are waiting when the buses come back. My daughter is in 9th grade, a lot of time drama club will end an hour or more earlier than supposed to, the kids just walk over to dunkin donuts or the pizza place if it ends early and parents are not there yet (we have no buses for after school things). They don't need someone babysitting them until the parents get there. Last night it ended at 6 when it wasn't supposed to end till 8 so they had 2 hours to kill if their parents weren't ready to come get them. I certainly would not expect the advisor to hang out there the 2 hours waiting.

 

[Schmeck]

I drive students in my own car for one of our smaller teams at the high school where I work. I have added auto insurance to cover for this. I drive from the school to another school for the meet, then out to dinner after (if they win) and then back to the school. If students' homes are on the way back, I will drop them off at home, and I wait there until I see the door open and they go inside.

The students that return to the high school either have cars there, or parents are coming to get them. I do not leave until the students I drove back to the school have their cars running and are pulling out of the parking lot (no dead battery, car is working) or until I see them get into their parents' cars and they drive off. They are my responsibility until they are not on school property, or are with a parent. That's school policy, and common, decent courtesy.

I would never leave a student at the school and then drive away, unless there was another event at the school that the student told me he/she was going to attend. Not only do I want to make sure the kids are safe, I refuse to risk having something happen to legal minors that are supposed to be under my care, and that I will be held liable for what has happened.

So, if something did happen at the school after the director left - it would be the custodian's fault? He's supposed to stay there and make sure no one comes into the school and messes with the kids that are waiting? The doors are unlocked, so who knows what could happen? What happens to the last kid waiting - the custodian is supposed to be working, not babysitting.

I'd ask the director about it, and if I didn't like the answer or the policy, I'd speak to the principal.

 

[Schmeck]

In high school?-being left waiting for parent is not an issue to me. when they are in high school. At least they can wait inside, so its not like they are outside in the cold. If it upsets a parent so much then that parent should make sure they are there WAY ahead of time so they are waiting when the buses come back. My daughter is in 9th grade, a lot of time drama club will end an hour or more earlier than supposed to, the kids just walk over to dunkin donuts or the pizza place if it ends early and parents are not there yet (we have no buses for after school things). They don't need someone babysitting them until the parents get there. Last night it ended at 6 when it wasn't supposed to end till 8 so they had 2 hours to kill if their parents weren't ready to come get them. I certainly would not expect the advisor to hang out there the 2 hours waiting.

The OP's scenario had it ending after 10:30 PM, didn't it? So it really doesn't compare to your 'getting out early' situation, IMO. Unless you don't mind your 14 year old daughter hanging out at Dunkin Donuts at 10:30 at night?

 

[Mkrop]

In high school?-being left waiting for parent is not an issue to me. when they are in high school. At least they can wait inside, so its not like they are outside in the cold. If it upsets a parent so much then that parent should make sure they are there WAY ahead of time so they are waiting when the buses come back. My daughter is in 9th grade, a lot of time drama club will end an hour or more earlier than supposed to, the kids just walk over to dunkin donuts or the pizza place if it ends early and parents are not there yet (we have no buses for after school things). They don't need someone babysitting them until the parents get there. Last night it ended at 6 when it wasn't supposed to end till 8 so they had 2 hours to kill if their parents weren't ready to come get them. I certainly would not expect the advisor to hang out there the 2 hours waiting.

That would never happen here...first off the school is not located near any places that kids could hang out and if something ends early kids call their parents and teachers wait.

When I went to HS the fast food places did not want us hanging out there and the school did not want us hanging there either.

I drive students in my own car for one of our smaller teams at the high school where I work. I have added auto insurance to cover for this. I drive from the school to another school for the meet, then out to dinner after (if they win) and then back to the school. If students' homes are on the way back, I will drop them off at home, and I wait there until I see the door open and they go inside.

The students that return to the high school either have cars there, or parents are coming to get them. I do not leave until the students I drove back to the school have their cars running and are pulling out of the parking lot (no dead battery, car is working) or until I see them get into their parents' cars and they drive off. They are my responsibility until they are not on school property, or are with a parent. That's school policy, and common, decent courtesy.

I would never leave a student at the school and then drive away, unless there was another event at the school that the student told me he/she was going to attend. Not only do I want to make sure the kids are safe, I refuse to risk having something happen to legal minors that are supposed to be under my care, and that I will be held liable for what has happened.

So, if something did happen at the school after the director left - it would be the custodian's fault? He's supposed to stay there and make sure no one comes into the school and messes with the kids that are waiting? The doors are unlocked, so who knows what could happen? What happens to the last kid waiting - the custodian is supposed to be working, not babysitting.

I'd ask the director about it, and if I didn't like the answer or the policy, I'd speak to the principal.

 

[Help Please!]

The high school that my husband just taught at (in a nicer area) had a sign that indicated that the school would only be held liable for students for 30 minutes after a scheduled activity ended. After that...they were on their own.

From the perspective of a wife of a band director...know what really stinks? When after EVERY game, field trip, competition, etc., your husband is home 1-2-3 hours later because of parents who don't pick their kids up on time. So they don't get home to see their kids before bed, or don't get in bed themselves until 2 or 3 am, and it just sucks. My husband always stayed with his kids (he never would have left them because the schools were not in the best areas), but if there was a dependable janitor who would be up for watching them, and he got to be home at a reasonable time one night out of maybe 30-40 for the school year...that would have been awesome.

 

[Hrhpd]

Just a note. I did have her text me when the bus left the competition school. The bus beat me to the school....because of bad roads, and them being slightly closer. It's not like I deliberately left her to wait there. I was trying to time it so that I arrived before she did, but it didn't happen.

I don't know how many kids were there. I saw maybe a 1/2 dozen in the lobby when D came out. There were maybe 9 people in the cast, and 2-3 "techies."

I'm now leaning toward a note to the director to (a) thank him for all his work in getting the play produced (I know it is a HUGE, generally thankless job), (b) asking him to clarify the policy about the students leaving an event with a parent rather than on the bus (since last year the cast rode a bus TO the competition, but we were REQUIRED to pick them up at the competition site). I'm trying to think of a non-confrontational way to ask about the students being left unsupervised. I don't want to make a big deal out of it, but I do want to understand what is reasonable for me to expect in the future.

Another school district where all athletes and/or school groups must take the bus with the team and return with the team.

But more importantly, the kids want to ride the bus back to the school together. After a game or a competition, that is the most fun, being with your friends and teammates.

DS plays varsity football. He would be absolutely mortified to be picked up at the game just because it was easier for his mom.

Be VERY careful that you don't embarrass your daughter by sending a note to the school on why you couldn't pick her up at the competition. Make very, very sure that she actually wants to be picked up at future competitions before you go down that road. Most kids I know actually want to stay with their team or group until the end. The bus conversations are some of the best.

As for the kids being left with a school employee? I would have no issue with it. Frankly, my kid texts me when the bus gets to the school. I arrive, he gets in my car. I have never even thought about whether the coach was still there or not. They are high school kids, perfectly able to spend a small amount of time in a school environment with a school employee there.

 

[Schmeck]

As for the kids being left with a school employee? I would have no issue with it. Frankly, my kid texts me when the bus gets to the school. I arrive, he gets in my car. I have never even thought about whether the coach was still there or not. They are high school kids, perfectly able to spend a small amount of time in a school environment with a school employee there.

You must live in a very nice area. Some schools are not in such nice areas, and some school events happen after dark, and don't end until after 9 PM. Then travel back to the school from the other event can take up to an hour (or more!) so the kids are getting back at 10 PM at the earliest.

Also, we are talking about legal minors, and who has responsibility of that minor. I don't know regulations from state to state, but in our city the school is held liable for the child until he or she is delivered to the parent.

 

[Aliceacc]

I'm a high school teacher.

I would have a real problem leaving before all the parents had picked up my kids. Legalities aside, they're mostly minors. If something happened to them between the time I left and the time the parents were able to get there, it would stay with me forever.

If they're there for my activity, then they're my responsibility. Emergencies aside, I'm not giving that responsibility to the janitor; he has a job of his own to do and doesn't need to be doing mine. (And, from a professional standpoint, it's not fair to put him in the position of having to defend doing his job-- and not mine-- to me.)

If it's daytime and there are lots of other things going on, then not a problem. But at night?? Nope, I'm not going anywhere. And even in good areas, accidents happen, or bad people wander in. "Good areas" are simply places where bad things haven't happened....yet.

There was one time many years ago when the debate team got back from states at about 1:30 am on a Sunday morning as expected. One girl's mom directed her to take the public bus back home. Nope, not happening. I brought her to my home until about 4:30 am when mom got home, then drover her home myself. Not exactly school policy, but the only course of action that made sense to me. She was my responsibility until she was in her mom's care, and I was NOT putting her on a public bus in the middle of the night to arrive to an empty house.

Unless the teacher in the OP left the kids with the janitor while he took another kid to the ER, I would have an issue with his actions.

 

[ilovefh]

Like many other posters I take no issue with all kids taking the bus home. That was what we did both when I played and when I coached. I do have an issue with the coach leaving before all kids are gone. It's the coach's responsibility to make sure everyone gets picked up. I know it stinks when parents are late but that's just part of the job. I teach middle school so it's a little different but this year we had a student who was left at the dance for more than 2 hours after it ended. He didn't have a cell phone and used ours to continually call his family. Luckily one of the other students lived in the same apartment complex and he relayed the message that the kid needed to he picked up. But can you imagine what would have happened if we had left? He would have been left there all alone with no way to call anyone. And yes, what his parents did is awful but it wasn't his fault.

I would ask the coach about it. See if maybe there was another adult there? Like an assistant coach. And if it happens again I would go to admin.

 

[luvsJack]

You must live in a very nice area. Some schools are not in such nice areas, and some school events happen after dark, and don't end until after 9 PM. Then travel back to the school from the other event can take up to an hour (or more!) so the kids are getting back at 10 PM at the earliest.

Also, we are talking about legal minors, and who has responsibility of that minor. I don't know regulations from state to state, but in our city the school is held liable for the child until he or she is delivered to the parent.

Do we know the kind of area the high school in the OP is in? That may have something to do with their policy.

Here its not a state regulation but a policy set by the school district.

These kids were not left alone, the janitor was with them and he is an employee of the school. We, nor the OP knows what the conversation was between the director and the janitor. We, nor the OP knows the policy of the school. Was it the janitor's job? Maybe not but that is between the director and the janitor, not the OP and anyone. Her child WAS supervised. I don't think she needs to make a stink out of any of this. If she wants to know the policy on where to pick up her child, she should ask but the rest is making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[Erin1700]

Was the janitor actually with them or somewhere in the school doing his job? That is a big difference to me. If he was standing there with them, then I would be more ok with it. If he was just in the building, then, no.

 

[mnrose]

The more I think about it, the less the bus thing bothers me. I now see that there are certain "intangible" benefits to the bus ride that my D enjoyed, and it's part of the overall experience. The leaving them alone thing bothers me more. I'm still thinking about how I'm going to approach that. I have a meeting in the next week or so with a guidance counselor about course scheduling for my twins, and I may ask their opinion before going farther. They certainly should know policy on this better than I (even from reading the handbook).

(Also, because it came up in a few posts, the neighborhood where the school is located is fine...but there is nothing around it except single family housing).

 

[Hrhpd]

Just a note. I did have her text me when the bus left the competition school. The bus beat me to the school....because of bad roads, and them being slightly closer. It's not like I deliberately left her to wait there. I was trying to time it so that I arrived before she did, but it didn't happen.

I don't know how many kids were there. I saw maybe a 1/2 dozen in the lobby when D came out. There were maybe 9 people in the cast, and 2-3 "techies."

I'm now leaning toward a note to the director to (a) thank him for all his work in getting the play produced (I know it is a HUGE, generally thankless job), (b) asking him to clarify the policy about the students leaving an event with a parent rather than on the bus (since last year the cast rode a bus TO the competition, but we were REQUIRED to pick them up at the competition site). I'm trying to think of a non-confrontational way to ask about the students being left unsupervised. I don't want to make a big deal out of it, but I do want to understand what is reasonable for me to expect in the future.

You must live in a very nice area. Some schools are not in such nice areas, and some school events happen after dark, and don't end until after 9 PM. Then travel back to the school from the other event can take up to an hour (or more!) so the kids are getting back at 10 PM at the earliest.

Also, we are talking about legal minors, and who has responsibility of that minor. I don't know regulations from state to state, but in our city the school is held liable for the child until he or she is delivered to the parent.

Yes, our school is in a decent area.

Game buses are never back before 9pm, usually after 10 and occasionally depending on how far they traveled, closer to midnight.

The OP's daughter was not left alone. The OP said there was a district employee in charge. As long as there is an adult employee on premises, I would have no problem.

I have no problem with the OP asking the director what the policy is and which school employees are allowed to be in charge. I would not escalate above the director as the kids were not left alone at any time. There was an adult school employee there. Just because the OP has a problem with the adult being a janitor does not mean the kids were abandoned. But I see no problem asking the director what the policy is.

My post was more to caution the OP in making a fuss about not being able to pick her daughter up at the actual competition just because it is more convenient for her. Every single kid I know wants to stay with the team until the end. As a high school student, they don't want Mom coming to get them early. But it seems that part does not bother the OP, so all is good.

 

[disykat]

Another band parent here and 10:00 seems EARLY to me! I spent many nights waiting with a bunch of other parents at 1:00 am or beyond.

I also think in high school that "an adult" is fine. In our band, if an adult he knew and trusted to stay with the kids offered, our band director left before the last few stragglers. I volunteered many times. In our area at least, the stipends offered to coaches etc. for extra curricular things in no way cover what they do. I would not want them to have to stay for stragglers.

I would not leave kinds alone, but a trustworthy adult that could help in an emergency certainly seems sufficient.

 

[Bluestars]

The janitor is an employee of the school. Maybe it is in his job description to supervise kids at times like these. He's an adult and could be just as capable of supervising the kids as a teacher. Unless my daughter experienced a dangerous situation or inappropriate things going on during this time, I would not complain.

 

[MSSANDRA]

I see three different issues. I think it is important to know what your district policy is on transportation to and from activities and supervision. You should have been made aware of these when you signed permission for you child to participate.MANY school are very strict on not allowing children to leave the event any way other than the bus.Many will not allow any bending of this rule...ever. The leaving of the children at school would be my biggest concern. That would NEVER be ok in our district. It would be grounds for dismissal for a teacher. I would address the issue, especially since the weather was a concern.
the weather is the third issue. Even with a firm policy in place, most school would have allowed a parent pick up if the roads were indeed unsafe for travel. I would not want my child on dangerous roads on a bus. The reality however is that if the policy says your child must ride the bus, you would risk your child loosing their spot on the team if you do not allow her to ride the bus on return. Your judgment call but you have to be aware of what the consequences will be,