Another Thunder Mt. Crash

[miko]

I just saw on CA news that BTM (Disneyland) had another accident tonight (7/08) at about 6:30. Apparently two trains collided and a young boy sustained some injury.
Not exactly what Disney neede with that ride!!

 

[Chuck S]

With all the trouble they've had with that ride, I'm surprised the manufacturer hasn't offered a 'special deal" to Disney to replace/update it. There has been a design change since the ride was built at DL.

 

[miko]

With all the trouble they've had with that ride, I'm surprised the manufacturer hasn't offered a 'special deal" to Disney to replace/update it.

Maybe they should just keep it and rename it to Thunder Mountain of Terror!

 

[Bob O]

Trains Collide On Disneyland's Big Thunder Mountain Ride


LOS ANGELES -- Two trains collided on the Big Thunder Mountain ride at Disneyland Thursday afternoon.


NBC4's Vikki Vargas said two of the trains on the ride bumped into each other.

An 11-year-old boy complained of neck injury, but was not immediately transported to a hospital.

A similar accident in September of last year claimed the life of a 22-year-old Gardena man and injured 10 others.

The ride reopened after extensive training March 10, 2004.

Disneyland representatives told Vargas what happened Thursday afternoon was a fluke.

The ride was closed, but Disneyland said it hoped to reopen the ride later Thursday evening.

 

[WDSearcher]

A similar accident in September of last year claimed the life of a 22-year-old Gardena man and injured 10 others.

I hate it when the news media does stuff like this. The accident that happened last night was not, in any way, "similar" to the one that happened last September. The only thing that makes it similar is that it was on the same ride. Last September was a derailment. This was a case of two trains bumping into each other. There's a huge difference there, and it's not responsible reporting to presume the two things are connected.

 

[Phoebesaturn]

Originally posted by WDSearcher
I hate it when the news media does stuff like this. The accident that happened last night was not, in any way, "similar" to the one that happened last September. The only thing that makes it similar is that it was on the same ride. Last September was a derailment. This was a case of two trains bumping into each other. There's a huge difference there, and it's not responsible reporting to presume the two things are connected.

Didn't the cars crash into each other last September and one of them derailed because of the crash ?? : confused:

 

[KNWVIKING]

From what I recall there was only one train in last Septembers tragidy. The "engine" broke a suspension componant causing the engine to derail.The other cars simply crashed into the derailed engine. The engine section,when it derailed jumped up & the first car rearended it,with the one passenger getting a facefull of engine.

The two accidents are not similar.

 

[Bstanley]

Correct Mr. Viking. Yesterday's accident is not similar to the fatal accident.

However, if memory serves, there was also an accident during the first couple of weeks after the ride went back on- line where one train whacked into another train when it was being tested (ie no one was onboard). This latest bump sounds simliar to that one - perhaps there still be bugs here?

 

[barreloflaughs]

perhaps there still be bugs here?

Perhaps may be understating it a bit! The trains aren't supposed to whack into each other (even ever so gently!).

carl
barrel of

 

[Rajah]

Not at all what Disney needed, but what is up with that ride? I LOVE BTMRR, but why so many problems recently?

 

[Sarangel]

This is purest speculation, but it may have to do with Disney's lack of maintenance at Disneyland. I know that the Matterhorn has been down a lot in the last couple of years for major track maintenance (and they say it's fixed & 3 months later it's down again )

If BTMR is tetchy to begin with & they aren't monitoring it even *quite* as closely as it needs, glitches like this & the bump during maintenance last year may be more prone to crop up.

Sarangel

 

[KNWVIKING]

I don't know Sarangel, with all the spotlights that are on BTMRR I don't think DL would try to cut corners. If anything I'd bet they are doing more then in the past if for no other reason then appearance.

The "bump" that occurred a few months ago & this one sound more like a software or operator error, not a lack of maintenance.

 

[WDSearcher]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
... with all the spotlights that are on BTMRR I don't think DL would try to cut corners. If anything I'd bet they are doing more then in the past if for no other reason then appearance.

I was thinking the exact same thing. The last thing in the world DL wants or needs is for something else to go wrong with a ride they just, very publicly, spent so much time fixing and retraining for. I agree that it was a glitch -- software or human -- that at any other time would have been ignored or hardly noticed by media.

 

[Jon360]

They need to shut down this ride permanently.


3 very serious accidents in 1 year is unacceptable.

 

[KNWVIKING]

Did I miss a couple newsflashes ?? What are the other two very serious accidents ?

 

[Bstanley]

Oh sure blame it on Windows...it's always the software...


This is just the sort of thing that some enterprising 'investigative reporter' might decide to run with - I can see the Headline/cutline now, "Corporate Greed at Disney" - "How Mickey Mouse managers risked our children's lives in pursuit of profits".


I'll bet I know what the first word was out of The Big MEs mouth when he heard about the accident...

 

[WDSearcher]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
Did I miss a couple newsflashes ?? What are the other two very serious accidents ?

That would depend on your definition of "very serious." Obviously, the accident last September where one rider died is a very serious accident. Since then, there have been two accidents that would be considered "bumping" -- one without passengers just after the ride reopened, and then this one that happened yesterday. I, personally, wouldn't define those as "very serious." I don't believe even the guests who were hurt yesterday classified it as "serious". The older gentleman said it was more "inconvenient" than anything else, although I'm sure he's probably already had several lawyers contact him.

 

[Jon360]

Incident 1:
The ride crashes, 1 dead, 10 seriously injured.

Incident 2:
The ride crashes, Thank God no one was on board at the time.

Incident 3:
The ride crashes, 3 injured. According to the LA Times article, a 10 year old boy and his parents suffered back and neck injuries and had to be transported to the emergency room.

WDSearcher, I'm sure if you and your 10 year old son suffered back and neck injuries because a ride crashed, you would have a very different attitude. Disney needs to shut it down permanently. This is unacceptable.

 

[DancingBear]

The only reason to shut down the ride "permanently" would be if there is some inherent flaw in the ride. Haven't seen that yet.

Incident 1:

California OSHA finds that the ride design is fine and that maintenance procedures were fine, but weren't followed, leading to the crash.

Incident 2:

Caused by operator error using a manual override that is not used during operation with guests on board.

Incident 3:

Uncertain.

 

[hopemax]

The "bump" that occurred a few months ago & this one sound more like a software or operator error, not a lack of maintenance.

Making sure the software operates properly is a maintenance issue. Just ask any of the technical people who keep this website operational. It may not be maintained by the same person responsible for the nuts and bolts, but it is maintained by someone.

When the 2nd accident happened, and the flaw which allowed the two trains to occupy the same zone was discovered, one would think that the software system would have been given a hard look. After the 2nd accident, those involved said that the safety system would not allow occupied trains to enter the same zone. That turned out to not be the case. Disneyland has a responsibilty to make sure that a ride's safety system does what it is supposed to do.

The severity of the the injuries, is not what makes these accidents serious. It's the failure of the redundancy safety system. What's the point of having one if it can't be counted on to work? A well designed and run ride system is going to call on the backup safety system infrequently. Two failures of the redundancy system seems to indicate a high rate of failure, and one has to wonder is this the only time that the backup system will fail? And what about the backup systems on other rides?

Oh and the Matterhorn. About 10 years ago, they determined that the mountain structure was reaching the end of its life. They had a choice to tear down the whole thing and rebuild, or replace sections at a time. A far more costly and time consuming approach. Disneyland chose the latter (this was pre-Pressler). The reason the Matterhorn goes down every off season is to do the replacement. The track, the supports, the skin, it's all being replaced. It's not a case of deferred maintence catching up, it's about the only completely planned maintence project in the park. At least until Ouimet came in.