Another Thunder Mt. Crash

[WDSearcher]

Jon -- Any type of accident or injury on any type of theme park or amusement park ride anywhere is unacceptable. But they happen, and people who ride the rides assume a level of risk for getting on them. I don't object to your concern here, only to the descriptors you're using. There's a difference between a serious accident and a minor accident. I just don't think you can dump whiplash and death into the same category. But that's just my opinion.

 

[KNWVIKING]

***"Making sure the software operates properly is a maintenance issue."***

Then I guess Disney is maintaining their software to industry standards because "glitches" happen to everybody. I'm not quite sure how you prevent glitches.

 

[SnackyStacky]

Originally posted by WDSearcher
Jon -- Any type of accident or injury on any type of theme park or amusement park ride anywhere is unacceptable. But they happen, and people who ride the rides assume a level of risk for getting on them. I don't object to your concern here, only to the descriptors you're using. There's a difference between a serious accident and a minor accident. I just don't think you can dump whiplash and death into the same category. But that's just my opinion.

I can forgive an accident. Accidents happen, however tragic they may be.

But THREE?! In an eleven month period?! That's too much. If these happened further apart, I could agree but just the fact that they've happened in such close proximity to each other seriously elevates the severity factor as far as I'm concerned.

Disney needs to do something. I don't know what they're doing wrong, but the fact this has had three accidents in less than a year is proof of the fact that somewhere in the chain of command, SOMETHING is amiss.

 

[lenshanem]

This is totally unacceptable. Makes me wonder if it is safe to put my kids on anything come our WDW trip next week. After I heard about the second incident I was highly questioning the level of maintenance, but now three?!? You would think after the fatality they would be watching this ride like a hawk!

 

[manning]

According to mouse planet prelimary reports are suggesting human error. There was a train in the right hand station and the other train switched into the right hand station.

 

[Sarangel]

come our WDW trip next week

Remember that this is DisneyLAND Maintenance that we're discussing. The WDW maintenance programs, for some reason, haven't suffered as much.

Sarangel

 

[dcentity2000]

This is more than slightly worrying...



Rich::

 

[DancingBear]

Originally posted by lenshanem
After I heard about the second incident I was highly questioning the level of maintenance...

But the second incident was not a maintenance issue, it was operator error.

 

[lenshanem]

But has maintenance had cut backs, too at WDW? I bet it has, looks like it has. Maybe WDW has just been lucky so far?

Oh, I guess my comment was out there, but really - this is just not acceptable!
And why is this ride not fixed so that human error can't happen? You mean our lives are in the hands of some underpaid teenager?
I would just think with that fatality, they would be really on their toes here!

 

[SnackyStacky]

Originally posted by manning
According to mouse planet prelimary reports are suggesting human error. There was a train in the right hand station and the other train switched into the right hand station.

Doesn't that make you worry even more? That it's had TWO accidents related to human error? Are the people operating these rides not being trained properly enough? Are they being overworked? Are they underpaid?

I stand by my comment that somewhere in the chain of command, something is amiss.

 

[blackshirt]

What does a CM's rate of pay have to do with these accidents? Why in the world does that have anything to do with any safety issue. I doubt that these workers are overworked, although if the loading area is anything like the one at WDW they certainly deserve air conditioning. I would not be at all surprised, however, if the amount of training each CM receives has been reduced. In the eyes of some managers training hours just cut into productivity. Recent events at Disney suggest that they have been doing everything humanly possible to reduce "useless" hours.

 

[lenshanem]

Well, if they are underpaid they might not have a very high morale?

 

[blackshirt]

If ride operators were paid $50,000 per year and worked 20 hours a week but were poorly trained would this make the rides safer? If in fact an employee is unhappy making minimum wage or more working for Disney, I fail to see how Disney can be blamed. I am not a Disney apologist and in fact feel that the Company demands too much return on their park investment. Disgruntled employees, however, are not the fault of the Company in terms of safety.

 

[Chuck S]

The State of California has closed the ride indefinately, pending investigation. Why would the software, which is supposed to have track sensors, allow a train to be switched to the same station that already has a train in it? It should require some sort of override code. If it did not, this may have been more than simple operator error from an "underpaid teenager." Again, the ride system was re-designed AFTER the DL version was bult, and BEFORE the WDW version was built. Seeing as their seems to be problems with the software and sensors, as well as the CMs, I would think that the company that built the ride would be making a deal to replace the entire attraction with the redesigned version, since there does not seem to be a problem with the newer ride system.

 

[lenshanem]

And why is this ride not fixed so that human error can't happen?

I also posed the above question in my earlier post in addition to the "underpaid teenager". I didn't mean for so much emphasis to be put on that one statement regarding pay.

I'm glad it was shut down. Hopefully, they will take the time to correct the situation properly now before another person dies.

 

[DancingBear]

As to the second incident:

Dean Fryer of the California Division of Occupational Safety and Health said the collision "would not have happened during the operation of the ride with passengers on it.

http://www.nbc4.tv/news/2981351/detail.html

So, again, to review:

First and fatal accident:

Thoroughly investigated by CA OSHA. Ride design, maintenance staffing levels and maintenance program determined to be sufficient. Accident occurred due to maintenance workers not following the program.

Second accident:

CA OSHA official says this was operator error which could not have occurred during operation with guests on board.

Third accident:

CA OSHA investigating.

 

[DisneyFanGuy]

That assessment is correct. I always assume that if there is an accident on a roller coaster, that when it reopens it will be the safest ride on the planet. I mean, what company wants the publicity and ill will that comes from two accidents on the same ride?

But now we have three accidents inside of a year. I believed Disney when they said that the first and second weren't related. I also believe that poor maintanence contributed to the first, and assumed that it would be the wake up call that finally brought an end to that type of cost cutting.

But now, on the "safest ride on the planet" we have a third incident that should not have happened. That rear train should have been locked down if the switch plate was in the wrong position. Unless a completely clueless employee shut down the computer and deactivated the safety programs (Which is what happened in Accident #2), there is no way that this should have occured.

So I would imagine that there is still a big mechanical/computer/software problem there, or an incredibly poorly trained employee at the controls. I can't think of any other explaination. And neither situation is acceptable to me. The fact that injuries were minor is a very big piece of luck. Nothing more.

Disney blew this badly. They have lost my business at the DL resort. I bet that attendance drops like a stone out there because I cannot be the only person who is angry. We have all seen that park deteriorate over the past 10 years, and I have still gone and pretended that things were still good. I NEVER thought they would compromise the safey of their guests. And they have.

This minor "incident" is the straw that broke this camels back.

 

[lenshanem]

DisneyFanGuy, well said. To have something so special and throw it all away... That is what the current Walt Disney Company has done.
If you go read somethings off of Save Disney it will make you cry!

It will take alot of work and money to repair the damage that has been done within this company. You can't ignore things for so long. Regular maintenance is this key.

 

[dcentity2000]

Things like this do happen - rides do just go wrong sometimes.

A roller coaster in England broke down on the loop-the-loop... upside down... for several hours... full of people...



Rich::

 

[lightningcoach]

This is an assumption, but what I have heard on other boards is that Disney drastically reduced the number of ride "leads". That means that you have fewer ride operators that know exactly how the ride is going to work. You need someone who is in charge of rider safety and knows what to look for if a part isn't working properly and how to correct it or have the authority to shut down a ride. Disney reduced CM ride "leads" to save money. It was only a matter of time for it to catch up.

Thunder Mountain was made slower before it reopened.

Also- in regards to the "3 accidents". Theme parks now have to report accidents in California,due to recent law changes but Florida Theme Parks are exempt. The only ones we hear about from WDW is when someone is killed. We do not hear about the accidents where someone broke a limb, wrenched their neck or needed stitches. They have their own EMS team and can keep lots of things quiet. I had a friend injured at Busch Gardens and they tried to send her to the hospital in a taxi with a split open leg. Theme Parks do not want the publicity and their lawyers will fight tooth and nail not to pay anything. So we can't comment on ride accidents in Florida because we don't have a good number to go on.