Annoyed with my ex..Child support related (long)

[diznygirl]

I'm guessing this thread is just a few posts away from being closed, so I'm gonna try to get it back on track.....

OP - sorry your ex is being such a jerk. There are people who freak out about having responsibility and expect other people to shoulder it for them. Your ex sounds like one of them. Could be that if he cools his heals for 30 days in jail he would have time to think about the bad choices he has made in his life. It certainly is about teaching him a lesson - a lesson in responsibility that he obviously has never learned in his life.

 

[Carly_Roach]

Wow! I've heard a lot of ridiculous and crazy things in my 38 years, but I think your proposed "law" has to be the winner. You think that a woman should be forced by the government to get an abortion or give her child up for adoption if she gets pregnant by a loser? You said something about him getting to choose to sign away his rights if she decides to keep it, but then you went in the direction of forced abortion or adoption. That has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Even if the signing away the rights thing was a possibility, the OP's ex wouldn't likely take that option. She said he had been an active part in the kid's life, but he was just balking on paying his support (being paid under the table). For some reason, you seem to have a lot of contempt for women trying to raise children and give the deadbeat dads the benefit of the doubt every time, but you say that neither you or your husband has kids. Since you're so good at making assumptions about others, I'm going to assume that either you're extremely bitter because you haven't been able to have kids of your own or you have a close family member that has been "victimized" by a mother trying to collect child support. If not, I can't begin to speculate on what would cause you to have such a hateful attitude about this issue.

If you're really interested (which I doubt) then read the post right below yours and maybe that'll explain some of my attitude. Your speculation on why I have this attitude about this issue is none of my business.

BTW, I didn't say the mother should be "forced" to have an abortion. I'm saying that it takes two to tango and it appears that the woman has all the choices and holds all the cards. It is (and continues to be) my heartfelt belief that the man should have the opportunity to opt out by offering to pay for an abortion or sign away his rights via adoption. If he chooses neither, then he's on the hook for the next 20 years to make payments.

This gives the man in the situation some choices as well.

If your religious or personal beliefs are so strong that you'd feel it was morally wrong to terminate a pregnancy, then your religious or personal beliefs should have been there for you before you decided to have sex. The woman shouldn't get to decide for all three of those people how she's going to control their lives for the next 20 years.

On the flip side, I also believe that in cases where the couple isn't married, the man has absolutely no say and no rights at all in whether or not a woman terminates a pregnancy. If he's able to carry the baby, then he should do so. Barring that, a pregnancy impacts a woman's life and her health, therefore she, and she alone, carries the decision to terminate a pregnancy.

 

[Bluestars]

Extremely harsh and totally inappropriate! Really there is no reason to be so vile. Vile. The OP came to vent. You couldn't disagree more with the OP. It's been evident. Your disagreement already come across loud and clear prior to this post. You don't have to add shock value to your posts to get that across. Sad that you had to stoop so low. Your whole post is offensive.

You really owe the OP an apology.

I agree! Wow.

 

[kellyg403]

That continues to be my hopes for anyone in these kinds of situations. I see so much of parents using their children to "get back at" or "get even" with the other person. Money almost always seems to be at the base of these issues, closely followed by bitterness that he actually left.

I refer to these kinds of payments as "finally paying off the relationship". I'm 45 and know a few people who were able to "finally pay off" the relationship by giving the demanding person the money they wanted...and then never seeing them again.

The relief I've seen come from the ending of child support payments, and the ability to finally....FINALLY... have that woman out of their lives forever, is palpable. I've seen two men who my DH has known for the past 10 years do complete turnarounds in their lives because the kids graduated high school or college and they were free to divorce their wives and start their lives over again.

One of these men was a deep concern to my DH. He'd say to me, "He's going to commit suicide. I just know it. One day we'll get that call and hear he's shot himself."

After that man's 22 y/o graduated, he went home, told his wife he was done, the kids were raised and he wanted a divorce. He packed his stuff and moved to another city. No marriage counselling, no trial separation, no mid-life crisis girlfriend waiting in a hotel room somewhere. He just wanted out and felt he'd done his time for the stupid mistake he'd made 23 years ago when they both had sex and then he agreed to marry her.

He didn't stay because he loved the mother. He just new that he couldn't divorce her mother earlier because he couldn't afford two households AND child support on his salary. So he "did the right thing" and waited for it to be over. All the mother cared about was having the right house, the right car, the right neighborhood, doing all the soccer-mom kinds of things and showing the world what a great wife and mother she was.

I don't know what he's going to do about his pension or whatever, but I do know that he's a way totally different guy now. DH no longer worries about him being alone with his service revolver. He's happy and jokes around. He's a mentor to the younger men and tells them to learn from his mistakes when they talk about going to the bar and picking up girls.

He goes bowling with the guys and really seems to be enjoying himself instead of just pretending. The relief is visible to anyone who knew him and we are all grateful he finally got out. I hope he finds someone who will love him for himself as he begins his journey toward retirement. He deserves that. He's a good man.

So you see, when I see or hear of these women talking about ruining someone's life because he had the audacity to sleep with them, I have a lot of experience seeing the other side of the coin and have seen what ruined lives actually look like: regardless of whether the man stays with the woman or not.

But the Dad had a choice, his choice was to stay with the mother until the child was old enough for him to leave. He CHOSE to be miserable, as you say. He CHOSE to take the easy way..stay with mom, be miserable and never pay child support. This doesn't make it right to blame the mom that the dad stayed. That had he left she would have ruined him. He never left so you have no basis to KNOW what the mom would have done. Or for that matter the dad. Maybe he isn't the guy you think he is either. A lot of good people make bad choices, or easy choices. You can't condemn the mother and other mothers because one guy you knew CHOSE to live with his wife and child, enjoying certain things that come along with marriage because it was WAY easier for him to stick it out, look like a saint in your eyes etc. What went on at his house doesn't sound much better than it would have been if the child had the dad's happiness during her childhood. Cut me a break. Dad decided instead of 'fixing' his marriage to hang around miserable until boom...one day he had no more responsibility. Good call.

I just think in the end, you have an opinion you think is totally right, no other is right. You have seen it all, heard it all and in the end you are right. Sorry. You are not right in most cases. I hope you never ever find yourself in the place where the judge says this is what you are entitled too. I hope if you do you are able to say "Why no Judge, he is a good man, I don't deserve anything. I have made him oh so miserable in the past and I would never want a payoff'.

Kelly

 

[CharityLynn]

I'm glad I can see some humor in Carly's posts are I might be a mess by this. The truth is I know posting on a message board such as this can get such differering opinions and that is fine. At first I was hurt by some of what was said but I know who I am and I know what is real in my life. It is obvious by posting something on a message board such as this you can't possibly get every single detail into a paragraph.

I do not wish my son's father ill will. I do like the guy most of the time. He doesn't have an easy life, but you know what I didn't either. I simply succeeded in making myself a better person in spite or maybe because of my childhood. I was raised by a single Mom who worked at Burger King for 9 years to support her 2 daughters. We lived on Goodwill clothing but you know what we turned out pretty darn well. My Dad always paid his child support, never late on one payment and he had a new wife with a child but he still took care of us as much as he could and the least he felt he could do was pay the child support.

I was young when I had my son just 19 years old, it was a poor decision to be sexually active that young. I know that. But I love my son and would not trade him for anything. His father wanted him and so did I, but we were adult enough to know that we were not working. Our relationship not working doesn't mean that our son was wanted less. I think staying with soeone "for the benfit of the child" is wrong. Is your life not worth living happy? I am extremely happy with my current husband and we have been together for nearly ten years. He has supported my son since he was just a year old and does not complain about it, he loves my son.

I am blessed that my son has a relationship with his Dad, many kids do not have that. My ex and I work hard to keep a good relationship for his sake. My ex did work (the job he was fired from) for 7 years, so he was stable for a long period of time.

 

[mrsklamc]

It's so not true that the mom has all the control and the dad should get the right to pay for an abortion or sign off on child support rights. He had the right not to have sex just as the mom did. I'm guessing most of them know how pregnancy happens.

Besides, this fantasy law of yours would just result in more kids and single moms being on welfare, so are you willing to pony up when the dads don't? Because I don't gather from your posts you'd be real excited about that either.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I'm sorry you find my opinions vile. I often find things I read here to be vile myself, but I don't often say so to the people who hold those opinions because, well, I guess that would be considered a personal attack. Kind of like yours on me above.

The fact of the matter is that we all share different opinions. Mine is obviously different from others because my life experience is different. The OP's own mother doesn't share the OP's opinion so the OP came here hoping she'd find some validation from other women who share the same values as herself....which she did. Overwhelmingly.

Unfortunately, when you post on a public message board, you're not always going to get just the opinions that validate your own. That's the blessing and the curse of public message boards. You're going to get opinions that not only disagree with yours, but probably sound similar to those people in your real life whom have likely told you the same thing that drove you to seek validation from strangers in the first place.

You may consider that vile, and you're very welcome to your opinion that it IS vile. However, your opinion that I am vile is just that: an opinion. If you believe your opinion of me makes me what I am, then I ask that you change your opinion to believe that I just won the lottery and I am a millionaire now.

If you'll do that, I'll donate $1,000 to the charity of your choice in your name.

Thank you.

Interesting. When I stated there was no reason to be vile, it was in regards to your post. I can see where you could've taken it either way. FTR, I did not call you vile.

I've been here a very long time, since 1999. I know all about this board. Thanks anyway.

I'm glad CharityLynn can see some humor in your post. Good for you CharityLynn.

 

[Carly_Roach]

But the Dad had a choice, his choice was to stay with the mother until the child was old enough for him to leave. He CHOSE to be miserable, as you say. He CHOSE to take the easy way..stay with mom, be miserable and never pay child support. This doesn't make it right to blame the mom that the dad stayed. That had he left she would have ruined him. He never left so you have no basis to KNOW what the mom would have done. Or for that matter the dad. Maybe he isn't the guy you think he is either. A lot of good people make bad choices, or easy choices. You can't condemn the mother and other mothers because one guy you knew CHOSE to live with his wife and child, enjoying certain things that come along with marriage because it was WAY easier for him to stick it out, look like a saint in your eyes etc. What went on at his house doesn't sound much better than it would have been if the child had the dad's happiness during her childhood. Cut me a break. Dad decided instead of 'fixing' his marriage to hang around miserable until boom...one day he had no more responsibility. Good call.

You are absolutely right. I have no clue (other than what he's told my DH, myself and the other people who know him) what the woman he married would have done if he'd have decided to not 'do the right thing' and marry her all those years ago. But, based on what I saw, heard and experienced, he didn't take the easy way out. He paid dearly for his mistake and there was nothing easy about it.

Personally, if there had been such a law stating that he could have chosen abortion or adoption, and the woman decided to keep the baby anyway, he likely would have been there overpaying for that child. The man I know is generous to a fault and became an officer so he could protect and serve the public.

In the years my DH and I have known him, I've never known him to flirt with other women, sleep around on his wife, or even complain more about her than any of the other guys complain about their wives. He was doing his duty even if doing his duty made him miserable. I celebrate his life now and am very happy he finished his term and paid his debt.

We don't speak to the wife anymore. She likely has a bulletin board out there where she probably describes him as a deceitful so and so who took the best years of her life and then left her. I don't worry about her. She receives her comfort from other women who will be more than happy to gnash their teeth with her, spit on all men as scum, and advise her to take him to the cleaners and continue to make his life worse because that's what they'd do.

I just think in the end, you have an opinion you think is totally right, no other is right. You have seen it all, heard it all and in the end you are right. Sorry. You are not right in most cases. I hope you never ever find yourself in the place where the judge says this is what you are entitled too. I hope if you do you are able to say "Why no Judge, he is a good man, I don't deserve anything. I have made him oh so miserable in the past and I would never want a payoff'.

Kelly

Your opinions of me are none of my business.

As for hoping I'll never be in a place where the judge says this is what I'm entitled to, so far I've been able to avoid those situations by living my offline life doing onto others as I've have them do unto me. My compassion for others is well known amongst my offline friends, despite how vile some people here would make me out to be.

 

[Carly_Roach]

Extremely harsh and totally inappropriate! Really there is no reason to be so vile. Vile.

I'm sorry you find my opinions vile.

Interesting. When I stated there was no reason to be vile, it was in regards to your post. I can see where you could've taken it either way. FTR, I did not call you vile.

Actually you did. Twice.

However, as I stated before, I am sorry you find my opinions vile. There is much I find vile in this world as well. But we each see the world through the filters of our own lives. By the very nature of the world alone, those experiences vary greatly. What may be considered vile here the US (such as not washing your hands after going to the bathroom) is considered absolutely normal in places such as France or Africa.

YMMV. But you DID call my opinions (or post) vile.

 

[jodifla]

I'm glad I can see some humor in Carly's posts are I might be a mess by this. The truth is I know posting on a message board such as this can get such differering opinions and that is fine. At first I was hurt by some of what was said but I know who I am and I know what is real in my life. It is obvious by posting something on a message board such as this you can't possibly get every single detail into a paragraph.

I do not wish my son's father ill will. I do like the guy most of the time. He doesn't have an easy life, but you know what I didn't either. I simply succeeded in making myself a better person in spite or maybe because of my childhood. I was raised by a single Mom who worked at Burger King for 9 years to support her 2 daughters. We lived on Goodwill clothing but you know what we turned out pretty darn well. My Dad always paid his child support, never late on one payment and he had a new wife with a child but he still took care of us as much as he could and the least he felt he could do was pay the child support.

I was young when I had my son just 19 years old, it was a poor decision to be sexually active that young. I know that. But I love my son and would not trade him for anything. His father wanted him and so did I, but we were adult enough to know that we were not working. Our relationship not working doesn't mean that our son was wanted less. I think staying with soeone "for the benfit of the child" is wrong. Is your life not worth living happy? I am extremely happy with my current husband and we have been together for nearly ten years. He has supported my son since he was just a year old and does not complain about it, he loves my son.

I am blessed that my son has a relationship with his Dad, many kids do not have that. My ex and I work hard to keep a good relationship for his sake. My ex did work (the job he was fired from) for 7 years, so he was stable for a long period of time.

If the situation were flipped, wouldn't you be a bit angry? Your ex and his new wife live happily and comfortably, going on nice vacations, etc. etc. Oh, and wife supports him, while he stays home and takes care of your son.

Meanwhile, you're out of work, can't find a job and then they want to put you in jail because you can't find work? Now, I realize there's mitigating factors here, in that you say you feel he's not looking hard enough, but in Michigan, with his (lack of) qualifications, he might be out of work a long time. The newspaper just reported about an office manager who applied for a job....and they had literally THOUSANDS of applications for that job. Pretty daunting odds right now.

I am also, frankly, of the mind that if a woman decides to have a child out of wedlock in this day and age, it is on her. I wouldn't expect a man to have obligations, especially since the woman has all the control about whether to have a child. (I would also not expect a woman to stay in a bad relationship, however.)

 

[CharityLynn]

I have said I DO NOT want him to go to jail. I did call and tell the courts this after his last hearing. Is it really my fault that they didn't really listening to what I was saying? Sure I can call tomorrow and tell them I don't like that they issued a bench warrant for him but it doesn't mean it will change anything, it obviously didn't the first time I called.

 

[jodifla]

I have said I DO NOT want him to go to jail. I did call and tell the courts this after his last hearing. Is it really my fault that they didn't really listening to what I was saying? Sure I can call tomorrow and tell them I don't like that they issued a bench warrant for him but it doesn't mean it will change anything, it obviously didn't the first time I called.

I was more responding to the fact that you feel he's angry (although not sure if you were talking about my post.)

It's not your fault that they aren't listening to you. It would be interested to hear their reasoning in putting an unemployed, broke man in jail.

 

[Carly_Roach]

I have said I DO NOT want him to go to jail. I did call and tell the courts this after his last hearing. Is it really my fault that they didn't really listening to what I was saying? Sure I can call tomorrow and tell them I don't like that they issued a bench warrant for him but it doesn't mean it will change anything, it obviously didn't the first time I called.

You could drop the whole back child support thing and go back to court to renegotiate the payments. That's what you could do. It sounds like this is the route your mother has been advocating.

 

[CharityLynn]

I can't have them change the amount of child support. They use some formula to calculate it, like I said before they figure as if we both are working 40 hours a week at minimum wage. This is how Michigan does it.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Actually you did. Twice.

However, as I stated before, I am sorry you find my opinions vile. There is much I find vile in this world as well. But we each see the world through the filters of our own lives. By the very nature of the world alone, those experiences vary greatly. What may be considered vile here the US (such as not washing your hands after going to the bathroom) is considered absolutely normal in places such as France or Africa.

YMMV. But you DID call my opinions (or post) vile.

It was your post I called vile. It was the way it was worded and there appeared to be some rather large leaps. But you did apologize in advance for being offensive, so apparently you knew what you were doing.

I'll agree to disagree with you. I don't want to argue.

OP, I hope you come to a resolution which will have your child provided for in peace.

 

[Carly_Roach]

The newspaper just reported about an office manager who applied for a job....and they had literally THOUSANDS of applications for that job. Pretty daunting odds right now.

Want to know what I consider vile? People who steal the jars of money that families put out in convenience stores to ask for donations to help their children. There have been two in the past two weeks where the thieves just walked off with the money. They caught the first woman who took a jar asking for donations to help a kid in a wheelchair (Potterville), but I haven't heard if they ever caught the two guys who stole a jar full of money from another child who needed an operation (Charlotte).

Not to mention how often money from tip jars is stolen when the clerk's back is turned. And robberies are up. DH says it's going to get worse before it gets better. He's never seen or heard of it this bad before - not even in the 80's.

I suspect the practice of allowing people to put donation jugs or tip jars on counters is going to be stopped or discouraged by the police. DH says that while it's wrong to steal, it's just as wrong to tempt people who haven't eaten or can't afford to pay their gas bills with such an obviously easy way of getting a few bucks.

 

[mrsklamc]

DH says that while it's wrong to steal, it's just as wrong to tempt people who haven't eaten or can't afford to pay their gas bills with such an obviously easy way of getting a few bucks.

What?!? Aside from being totally OT this is up there with 'she was asking for it.'

Best wishes OP; unsubbing to
make sure I'm not feeding trolls.

 

[kellyg403]

You are absolutely right. I have no clue (other than what he's told my DH, myself and the other people who know him) what the woman he married would have done if he'd have decided to not 'do the right thing' and marry her all those years ago. But, based on what I saw, heard and experienced, he didn't take the easy way out. He paid dearly for his mistake and there was nothing easy about it.

Personally, if there had been such a law stating that he could have chosen abortion or adoption, and the woman decided to keep the baby anyway, he likely would have been there overpaying for that child. The man I know is generous to a fault and became an officer so he could protect and serve the public.

In the years my DH and I have known him, I've never known him to flirt with other women, sleep around on his wife, or even complain more about her than any of the other guys complain about their wives. He was doing his duty even if doing his duty made him miserable. I celebrate his life now and am very happy he finished his term and paid his debt.

We don't speak to the wife anymore. She likely has a bulletin board out there where she probably describes him as a deceitful so and so who took the best years of her life and then left her. I don't worry about her. She receives her comfort from other women who will be more than happy to gnash their teeth with her, spit on all men as scum, and advise her to take him to the cleaners and continue to make his life worse because that's what they'd do.

Your opinions of me are none of my business.

As for hoping I'll never be in a place where the judge says this is what I'm entitled to, so far I've been able to avoid those situations by living my offline life doing onto others as I've have them do unto me. My compassion for others is well known amongst my offline friends, despite how vile some people here would make me out to be.

Lucky for you that nothing has happened in your life because you have total control over everything and everyone. I have no opinion of you personally, I have opinions of YOUR OPINIONS. That are not compatable with my thinking. I agree to disagree. But never once did I assume you were not a compassionate person in REAL life. Just really judgemental on this thread.

You completely forget the bottom line. I encourage you to call tomorrow and ask to speak to someone in the court system...call your friend the police officer for all that matters. He will tell you the bottom line. Its not personal this thread. The court has made a decision. She CAN not waltz in there and change anything. You make personal attacks on the OP without FACT from the court. Your opinion on the emotional side of the issues is taken and filed. If you are so sure that what you say is correct, please get the facts from law standpoint and come back with it. Otherwise the rude commentary re: the mom and her theiving, unkind ways because you know woman like her is uncalled for.

And yes, that would be a personal opinion based on your responses thus far. How compassionate, giving and wonderful off line really doesn't matter because it is not apparent in your ONLINE comments.

Kelly

 

[ilovejack02]

I was more responding to the fact that you feel he's angry (although not sure if you were talking about my post.)

It's not your fault that they aren't listening to you. It would be interested to hear their reasoning in putting an unemployed, broke man in jail.

OP has stated a few times that he does work some, works for cash which means paid under the table so the courts don't see it. Little good it did him though it looks like since the courts raised the amount he needs to pay.


Kelly and others.. save your energy ; )!

 

[kellyg403]

OP has stated a few times that he does work some, works for cash which means paid under the table so the courts don't see it. Little good it did him though it looks like since the courts raised the amount he needs to pay.


Kelly and others.. save your energy ; )!