And The Beat Goes On!

[JimmyV]

If you think about it, the only reason a hotel would EVER institute resort fees is to increase their revenues while advertising room rates that don't include that in the initial quote. All the things they say the fees pay for, WiFi, cable, pool towels, what have you, are hotel amenities.

This isn't entirely true. The reason for instituting a resort fee is supposed to be to fold all of the surcharges into a single per diem fee. Things like printing at the business center; a bottle or two of water in your room; floating noodle rentals at the pool; use of the health center; unlimited local telephone calls; internet connection. Of course, the resort fee only makes sense if the hotel in question used to actually charge for these things. Back in the day when the fee was first created, all of the things I listed were typically subject to a surcharge. So instead of paying $4.00 for the water, $1.00 per phone call; $5 to rent a pool noodle; $2 per page to print your boarding pass; the hotels created the resort fee and folded that all in. One can argue whether the fee charged was truly commensurate with the surcharges that it replaced. But it cannot be said that the resort fee was not tethered to items that used to have hard costs. But now, no one uses the hotel phone any more, so there is no embedded value in "free local calls." We are all used to free wireless, so we don't think we should pay for that. Printing out boarding passes for free has been a courtesy provided for a long time. Most hotels stopped charging for the use of the health center years ago. So the idea of instituting a resort fee in 2016 is sort of out of touch with the way things operate. But more to the point, the institution of a daily resort fee absolutely, positively cannot be justified unless some amenities that are now subject to a surcharge are folded into the rate with the surcharge going away. I simply don't see that at WDW.

 

[RedAngie]

Sure they can. Because Disney knows you never really wanted those EMHs to begin with.

Ah! So you're saying they cut them due to popular demand?

Yep, but never fear. To make up for cancelling the EMH you already paid for, Disney will give you a coupon for $15 off a $500 purchase in one of their gift shops.

 

[prestoncaldwell]

This isn't entirely true. The reason for instituting a resort fee is supposed to be to fold all of the surcharges into a single per diem fee. Things like printing at the business center; a bottle or two of water in your room; floating noodle rentals at the pool; use of the health center; unlimited local telephone calls; internet connection. Of course, the resort fee only makes sense if the hotel in question used to actually charge for these things. Back in the day when the fee was first created, all of the things I listed were typically subject to a surcharge. So instead of paying $4.00 for the water, $1.00 per phone call; $5 to rent a pool noodle; $2 per page to print your boarding pass; the hotels created the resort fee and folded that all in. One can argue whether the fee charged was truly commensurate with the surcharges that it replaced. But it cannot be said that the resort fee was not tethered to items that used to have hard costs. But now, no one uses the hotel phone any more, so there is no embedded value in "free local calls." We are all used to free wireless, so we don't think we should pay for that. Printing out boarding passes for free has been a courtesy provided for a long time. Most hotels stopped charging for the use of the health center years ago. So the idea of instituting a resort fee in 2016 is sort of out of touch with the way things operate. But more to the point, the institution of a daily resort fee absolutely, positively cannot be justified unless some amenities that are now subject to a surcharge are folded into the rate with the surcharge going away. I simply don't see that at WDW.

If they aren't surcharges, they aren't optional. If they aren't optional, they are a part of the core cost of renting a room. If they are part of the core cost of renting a room, and they aren't in the advertised room rate, then guests are being misled. It doesn't matter if the resort used to charge or not. Do you know how resort fees got so popular? 1 hotel did it. Then other hotels saw them getting away with it. Domino effect. Any business charges what the market will bear, and as long as hotel guests are willing to pay these extra fees, they will be charged more and more. This isn't like the airline industry, where fares are going down and you can actually fly cheaper if you travel in a way that avoids the extra fees.

Resort fees are to the hospitality world as prices ending in .99 are to the retail world: It gives consumers the psychological perception that it costs less than it does.

 

[prestoncaldwell]

Bear in mind, a $49 LV strip room special that runs $74 after resort fee is likely hands down a larger, plusher room by far than any offered at a WDW value, which based on pricing alone is the appropriate comparison. LV strip weekend prices are still a bargain compared to WDW resort prices with few exceptions -- with nicer overall rooms in LV.

The difference between accommodations is irrelevant to the point that you are being sold a 49 rate and paying 74 for it.

 

[cabanafrau]

The difference between accommodations is irrelevant to the point that you are being sold a 49 rate and paying 74 for it.

Yes -- and no.

I agree that it does smack as underhanded to me to hold out a rate as X and then bump it up to X and Y in a slight of hand. I'm not a fan in any way, shape or form of the practice of resort fees -- with the exception of an optional add on to provide additional access to amenities if the fee is paid. If a hotel has a water park and I do or don't care to use the facilities and I can decide or not to pay to access, I'm fine with it.

My point was that it's pretty darned sad that on the LV strip it's quite easy to get much plusher rooms than WDW, at a fraction of the price.

 

[prestoncaldwell]

Yes -- and no.

I agree that it does smack as underhanded to me to hold out a rate as X and then bump it up to X and Y in a slight of hand. I'm not a fan in any way, shape or form of the practice of resort fees -- with the exception of an optional add on to provide additional access to amenities if the fee is paid. If a hotel has a water park and I do or don't care to use the facilities and I can decide or not to pay to access, I'm fine with it.

My point was that it's pretty darned sad that on the LV strip it's quite easy to get much plusher rooms than WDW, at a fraction of the price.

It's a very different competitive environment. I don't know how many rooms there are in LV anymore, but it's well over 100,000. Disney has sort of a captive audience, because of brand affinity, but especially because of the perks you can only get if you stay with them.

Also, and this isn't a cause of the difference, but just a side conversation, I personally think that more time is spent at the resort in Las Vegas than at Disney. Unless you're both very wealthy and a marathon gambler, you run out of things to do. Even the millennial clubbers tend to spend a lot of the daytime in their resorts.

I'd bet people would pay $50 a night to pitch a tent if it got them EMH and 60+ day FP+. Oh wait, they do.

 

[JimmyV]

If they aren't surcharges, they aren't optional. If they aren't optional, they are a part of the core cost of renting a room. If they are part of the core cost of renting a room, and they aren't in the advertised room rate, then guests are being misled.

I disagree. A $5 fee for renting a floating noodle at the pool is not a core cost of renting the room. It is an extra charge that you incur that is unrelated to your room. Same with the use of the gym. Same with the printing costs in the business center. Same with the wi-fi that you hook up to in the lobby or coffee shop. Same with the laundry facilities. These are all costs that you incur throughout the resort, but not in your room. Remember that the fee is not called a "room fee". It is called a "resort fee". You are paying a single price for amenities throughout the resort that are not part of your room. These costs get bundled together and charged to you as a single fee so that you aren't constantly engaged in cash transactions. One can argue whether it is fair to charge all guests a flat fee for resort-wide amenities that they never used before and don't intend to use now. That is an entirely different discussion. But it is wrong to say that fees that are charged for resort amenities that are not related to the room constitute "core costs of renting a room." A resort could charge you a resort fee of $100 that includes unlimited golf for the day. It can hardly be said that such a charge is a core cost of renting the room. It is simply pre-payment of a round of golf.

 

[jsmla]

I was still in full on rant mood yesterday evening when DH (not a WDW fan) got home. He commented that it seemed like my Disney trips were causing more aggravation than pleasure lately and I couldn't disagree.

I'm keeping my April trip because I have plans with a local friend that I really don't want to cancel but our annual Labor Day trip will be to Key West and not WDW. If the $15 fee goes into effect December may be out as well.

 

[prestoncaldwell]

I disagree. A $5 fee for renting a floating noodle at the pool is not a core cost of renting the room. It is an extra charge that you incur that is unrelated to your room. Same with the use of the gym. Same with the printing costs in the business center. Same with the wi-fi that you hook up to in the lobby or coffee shop. Same with the laundry facilities. These are all costs that you incur throughout the resort, but not in your room. Remember that the fee is not called a "room fee". It is called a "resort fee". You are paying a single price for amenities throughout the resort that are not part of your room. These costs get bundled together and charged to you as a single fee so that you aren't constantly engaged in cash transactions. One can argue whether it is fair to charge all guests a flat fee for resort-wide amenities that they never used before and don't intend to use now. That is an entirely different discussion. But it is wrong to say that fees that are charged for resort amenities that are not related to the room constitute "core costs of renting a room." A resort could charge you a resort fee of $100 that includes unlimited golf for the day. It can hardly be said that such a charge is a core cost of renting the room. It is simply pre-payment of a round of golf.

If you force everyone to pay $5 to rent a floating noodle, whether they use it or not, it is a core cost of renting the room. I know whereof I speak. I did this for 28 years.

 

[starjazz]

$420 for a seven day trip.

We're paying $150 for a rental car for the week, and $140 for 7 days parking = $290.

(I'll apologize again for the thread hijack here)

Add in gas, and the shuttle option is probably a hundred bucks more than renting a car (certainly not twice as expensive, as a PP had said). I'm okay paying the extra hundred bucks for the shuttle for the following reasons:

1. We got dropped off and picked up right at the gate for every park, except MK, where we were dropped off at the Contemporary for the 10 minute walk over, and one evening when we opted to be picked up at the Poly so we could take a boat ride. So, no trams or TTC during our trip.

2. With 7 of us, we'd have needed two cars or a van - I'm guessing the cost of rental is now on par with the shuttle option.

3. No driving required. After a long day, it was nice to just hop in the van and be given a ride to our door.

4. Help with loading. Our van driver loaded our stroller and packs in the back of the van for us each day in the morning and at pick up.

5. Easy grocery grabs. Our driver happily stopped on the way back to Windsor Hills for us to pick up some necessities.

For our group, staying off-site with the shuttle is the way to go. Saved easily over a thousand dollars if not more from staying on-site. That covers accommodations and shuttle cost for another entire trip!!!!

(btw - anyone need info on our shuttle driver, message me)

 

[courtneybeth]

Per week? Are you a Marriott employee?

Marriott World Center has time share units all around the exterior of the tall tower. For me to exchange through Interval is only $179 for the week. 2 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms and a large kitchen. Other than the rental car and having to wake up at 3am PST to make food reservations at the 180 day mark every day, it's not a bad deal. Saves a significant amount of money!

 

[cabanafrau]

It's a very different competitive environment. I don't know how many rooms there are in LV anymore, but it's well over 100,000. Disney has sort of a captive audience, because of brand affinity, but especially because of the perks you can only get if you stay with them.

Also, and this isn't a cause of the difference, but just a side conversation, I personally think that more time is spent at the resort in Las Vegas than at Disney. Unless you're both very wealthy and a marathon gambler, you run out of things to do. Even the millennial clubbers tend to spend a lot of the daytime in their resorts.

I'd bet people would pay $50 a night to pitch a tent if it got them EMH and 60+ day FP+. Oh wait, they do.

For me it boils down more to a bad taste in my mouth that Disney has both broken their arms patting themselves on the back and run out of breath tooting their own horns about their superior service and tremendous advantages of staying onsite at ever more obscene prices and now having the gall to consider shaking customers down for a petty fee for no more value offered. I don't love it in Vegas either, but it's easier to take when I can pay a quarter the price or less, resort fee included, for a larger, plusher room in LV than I used to at the Poly. While I'm neither very wealthy or even a gambler beyond my roll of quarters for the Sigma Derby, I really don't spend time in my resort room, am not bored by any means and can afford an adult night out at a top notch restaurant in an environment where that is more than just marketing spin -- all for the price of what it would cost to take a family of four to a Disney character buffet meal.

WDW doesn't offer the experience we enjoyed anymore. It's sad. We may occasionally, very occasionally, make the trek to DLR if we want to enjoy a Disney experience. For the most part, they've taken the experience in a direction that's not what we're looking for, and the petty money grabs put the cherry on the sundae.

 

[asbyrneva]

Assuming the photo of the survey is real, you'd be paying to use FP+. Well, at least to use it to schedule fast passes in advance.

What if it is to pay for EXTRA FP+? I have seen surveys around that type of question discussed on this board.

 

[monorailrabbit]

So a room with 9 people would only pay $15.00 the same cost as a room with 2? That seems odd.

Yes, as much as I hate to make it MORE expensive for someone. If only DH and I are paying just as much for stuff we won't use as a party of 9 is... well...

 

[lovethattink]

I merged the resort fee threads.

 

[epcotty]

Yeah since when are all these "extras"? They've always been incentives for you to stay there. On a value resort it'd be all the more noticeable. If they tack it onto an extra cost then that's more incentive to not stay there

 

[MakiraMarlena]

Apparently with the occupancy rate as high as it is, they are thinking that maybe they no longer need to offer incentives to stay there. A constant 92% occupancy rate is pretty much unheard of in the hotel world. Maybe they want to know if they can maintain it or maybe maintain a lower but still workable and profitable rate this way. Since this was just a survey question, and it hasn't happened yet and may not ever happen.

 

[Jennasis]

Ooh..are they getting ready to test an additional parking fee for parking CLOSER to the park (like USO)?

 

[cabanafrau]

Ooh..are they getting ready to test an additional parking fee for parking CLOSER to the park (like USO)?

I've seen the same info. While that's not a big deal in my eyes, it's making an ever more pathetic statement that the biggest "new" stuff happening at WDW is a stream of announcements of price increases, upcoming price increases, speculated price increases and cuts to hours and offerings -- including hours for cast members, which has to be horrible for those trying to make a living making the magic happen for the guests.

 

[Disfan1968]

Seems pretty clear they will get their money either way. Either raise room rates and average of 15, or collect the resort fee. What I think they are REALLY trying to determine is which of the two people will be less offended by. Either way, it's an extra 15 a night.