An Inconvenient Truth...

Perhaps you should modify that statement. You don't automatically believe "scientist over McCain and Lieberman", because the report they cite includes the work of over 2500 scientific experts, but rather you just only want to believe the occasional dissenting scientist who backs up how you personally feel on the issue, correct?


Occasional? There's more than a few.

OK, so lets say they're correct. How can we stop the catastrophic events the are predicting?
 
I guess the main question is why do some people want to believe one camp over the other?
 
So, which is it?

Solar panels are much less than reliable for most of the counrty. There is not enough land for wind farms (plus, Ted Kennedy doesn't want them in his back yard).

The last "new" refinery in the U.S. was built over 25 years ago because the oil companies took a loss on them and the government is not only unwilling to offer assistance, but they want to take away any profits that could be used for new refineries. And, you also have the NIMBY factor.

The environmentalists don't want to drill in Anwar.

So, it seems as though, conveniently, all other options are unacceptable.

"We have to do something!"

The "something" they want to do is limit your freedoms and tell you what to drive, where to set you thermostat, how to live.

It's all about politics. It has NOTHING to do with solutions or the environment or dependence on foreign oil. Those are just buzzwords they use to tug at your heartstrings. They want control.


We DO have to do something. Be proactive, don't force 'them'(whoever the heck 'they' is) to legislate, do it on your own and be a leader about it. You are correct, we have already lost too many of our freedoms to the Patriot Act and loose cannon decisions recently to stomach the government having to legislate more loss.

You REALLY think it has "NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ENVIRONMENT?"

It has EVERYTHING to do with the environment. That's why drilling Anwar is not acceptable to "them."

If everyone did their share voluntarily-stopped being such huge consumers of all things petroleum based, recycled and bought good made with recycled product, demanded less packaging, refused to buy transportation that did not responsibly use fuel, turned back the thermostadt and put on a sweater or throw a blanket over their knees and on and on and on and on- we would not even need to be discussing this issue. BTW, lots of these things end up saving one huge amounts of cash; my heating bill was loads lower than my neighbors this winter. I'm talking in the hundreds lower than the people living right next door for December thru February. We winterized our home, turned down the thermostadt and shut off the extra bedroom. We used our Hudson Bays this winter! I love them! I don't have solar panels on my roof but two blocks over, a little co-op grocery is trying them and has started a Simply Living group. The food is a little more expensive unless you work the co-op and become a member for a 25% discount. I can walk there and there is very little packaging, most of the food is either bulk or in easily recycled containers. I can take my own reusable containers too! It's easy, the food is mostly organic and more healthy. I call this a win-win-win situation. Look around you, there are hundreds of little changes you can make that would make a huge difference to your life, the environment and your bank balance.
 

I guess the main question is why do some people want to believe one camp over the other?

That's a great question....somewhere, somehow someone managed to turn this into a political issue, and it really isn't.

Personally, I think it falls more into science vs. faith debate, but that's another debate for another time.
 
Occasional? There's more than a few.

OK, so lets say they're correct. How can we stop the catastrophic events the are predicting?


Do you honestly believe this is a even debate with scientists split 50/50 down the middle?

As to stopping them, I make no claims as to being the expert. The first step is to get everyone on the same page and finally agree that it's an issue that needs addressing. Nothing constructive will happen until that does.
 
Do you honestly believe this is a even debate with scientists split 50/50 down the middle?

As to stopping them, I make no claims as to being the expert. The first step is to get everyone on the same page and finally agree that it's an issue that needs addressing. Nothing constructive will happen until that does.

That's the rub... it's not an issue. There is no consensus.

It has still not been proven that the current temperatures are in any way outside of the normal swings experiences throughout history. Nor has it been proven that mankind has any negligible effect on the overall temperature of the planet. One volcanic eruption throws up more pollutants in the atmosphere than mankind produces in a century. Anything we do (or don't do) is futile.

Now, I'm all for cleaner air and cleaner water. I have no problem doing my part. And good for you if you do, too. But, the issue we're discussing is global warming, not clean water.

The lies and scare tactics they use make the issue into something that it's not.

It gets politicial because they are using politics to force their issue into the lives of everyone in the country/in the world, whether they like it or not.

Follow the money. This is not a grassroots approach by concerned citizens. It is well funded, well prepared, and well fought by very left-wing organizations - of whom are well funded by very left-wing individuals. The $5 or $10 you send to Greenpeace, etc isn't paying their bills. Check the donors list (if they'll release it). Ask youself *why* people and dummy corporations are donating hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars to these groups. What's in it for them? It's a way to funnel money into the political process. These are political action committees - make no mistake about it.

Do you REALLY think that organizations are spending hundreds of millions of dollars on marketing campaigns because of the environment? It's all propoganda. They are spending the massive amounts of money to fund like-minded individuals' campaigns and to spread anti-capitalistic beliefs.
 
/
You are correct, we have already lost too many of our freedoms to the Patriot Act and loose cannon decisions recently to stomach the government having to legislate more loss.

No, it's not political. :lmao:

The anti-Bush rhetoric ratted you out.

Question for you...

You believe the propoganda being put out by some vocal "scientists", well-paid by left-wing organizations, that there is a massive environmental issue with Global Warming and we must do something immediately to stave off disaster, correct?

Here's the question: Did George Bush lie to start a war?

You'll believe politically motivated fundrasing organizations, but you don't trust your own government? Both sides of the political aisle? Even when (at the time) the data for WMD's was corroborated by other governments? Even some governments that aren't exactly allies? There was a concensus. And it was more than 50/50.
 
That's a great question....somewhere, somehow someone managed to turn this into a political issue, and it really isn't.

Very true. Our society is so politically polarized right now. In all honesty, Gore could have had all the best intentions in the world, but because he is a polictical figure, it cast doubt on his true motives.

You also have to remember that people my age (nearing 50 :scared1: ) went through this once before with the ice age fiasco. It will take A LOT MORE convincing than a slick documentry and petition signed by a group of scientists to get many in my age group behind it.
 
Do you honestly believe this is a even debate with scientists split 50/50 down the middle?

No but I don't believe it's as lopsided as the news reports say.


As to stopping them, I make no claims as to being the expert. The first step is to get everyone on the same page and finally agree that it's an issue that needs addressing. Nothing constructive will happen until that does.

Ah, I beg to differ. The "global warming not caused by humans" proponents will be run over by the stampede.
 
Not exactly Jerry Springer; those UK'ers really have some class!




Climate Change Challenge


The Viscount Monckton of Brenchley presents his compliments to Vice-President Albert Gore and by these presents challenges the said former Vice-President to a head-to-head, internationally-televised debate upon the question “That our effect on climate is not dangerous”, to be held in the Library of the Oxford University Museum of Natural History at a date of the Vice-President’s choosing.

Forasmuch as it is His Lordship who now flings down the gauntlet to the Vice-President, it shall be the Vice-President’s prerogative and right to choose his weapons by specifying the form of the Great Debate. May the Truth win! Magna est veritas, et praevalet.

Given at Carie, Rannoch, in the County of Perth, in the Kingdom of Scotland, this 14th Day of March in the Year of our Lord Two Thousand And Seven.

God Bless America ! God Save The Queen !


The Viscount Monckton of Brenchley

Carie, Rannoch, PH17 2QJ, Scotland


 
Not exactly Jerry Springer; those UK'ers really have some class!



This idiot likes to tell the USA what to do;
After U.S. Senators Rockefeller and Snowe wrote a letter to the Chief Executive Officer of ExxonMobil asking him to stop funding scientists who reject global warming, Lord Monckton wrote a letter to the senators reminding them of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and calling on them to reverse their position or resign.
 
:lmao:
This idiot likes to tell the USA what to do;

Quote:
After U.S. Senators Rockefeller and Snowe wrote a letter to the Chief Executive Officer of ExxonMobil asking him to stop funding scientists who reject global warming, Lord Monckton wrote a letter to the senators reminding them of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and calling on them to reverse their position or resign.

I guess I should've said that SOME UK'ers have some class. :rotfl:

Frankly, Sen's Rockefeller and Snowe, if they told a private business what they can and can't spend their money on, SHOULD have been scolded. If the left-wing environmental lobby can fund scientists, why shuoldn't the oil company have the right to refute them?

On another note, I'd like it if people would start referring to me as "Lord User Name." Has a nice ring to it, and implies I'm not the lowly schlub that I am. :lmao:
 
This idiot likes to tell the USA what to do;


I see you are from the UK. I would really like your oppinion. First I should say I did see the Al Gore movie and I do believe what he says.

What is the general oppinion of the US in the UK. Do we come across as waistfull polluters?
 
I see you are from the UK. I would really like your oppinion. First I should say I did see the Al Gore movie and I do believe what he says.

What is the general oppinion of the US in the UK. Do we come across as waistfull polluters?

I have to say I havn't seen the Al Gore movie, however I think the US can come across as a country which believes power is never ending and without consequences. That is changing as some areas have been reported as trying to make efforts while the government was prevaricating. I think there may be a belief that oil companies have or had undue influence on the reins of power.

It is hard for me to speak for the whole UK as it is to refer to the whole of the US. I know I find it odd that you have such large engined cars with poor fuel efficiency with no real need in many cases.

I have posted lots of comments on similar threads which gives my point of view and am hartened by the similar views of may US DIS posters however the loud noise made by User Name, Charade and a few more with a it's my energy and nobody can tell me what to do is a little depressing. As I have said before is man made global warming is a myth then they can all laugh at me and no harm done, if not then it's Hell in a Handbasket for us all and no point being smug if we haven't made the difference.
 
What is the general oppinion of the US in the UK. Do we come across as waistfull polluters?

Who cares?

Why should "world opinion" have anything to do with what the United States does or what's in our best interests?

This is one of the biggest problems in the US today.

You think France or China or Iran or Russia thinks to themselves, "Gee, I wonder what the US thinks?" No, they do what's in THEIR best interest.

It's not our purpose to "please" other people or other countries. We're here for OUR best interests. If other countries get a benefit by sharing our interests, good for us. We should do nothing less than what is best for us, for our interests, and our long-term survival.

It makes me wonder how insecure some people are when they're so worried about what other people think of them, or what other countries think of us.
 
Do you actually read the article, instead of just the headline


It said that manmade greenhouse gasses have likely contributed to rising temperatures. It did not say that man is the cause of global warming.

Yes, I ACTUALLY read the article. Semantics. Here's another quote from the article....

The 2001 report found that the 1990s were "very likely" the warmest decade on record. It also said that most of the observed warming over the last 50 years was "likely due to increases in greenhouse gas concentrations due to human activities."The authors defined "likely" as between 66 percent to 90 percent probable, and "very likely" as a 90 to 99 percent.
 
I have to say I havn't seen the Al Gore movie, however I think the US can come across as a country which believes power is never ending and without consequences. That is changing as some areas have been reported as trying to make efforts while the government was prevaricating. I think there may be a belief that oil companies have or had undue influence on the reins of power.

It is hard for me to speak for the whole UK as it is to refer to the whole of the US. I know I find it odd that you have such large engined cars with poor fuel efficiency with no real need in many cases.

I have posted lots of comments on similar threads which gives my point of view and am hartened by the similar views of may US DIS posters however the loud noise made by User Name, Charade and a few more with a it's my energy and nobody can tell me what to do is a little depressing. As I have said before is man made global warming is a myth then they can all laugh at me and no harm done, if not then it's Hell in a Handbasket for us all and no point being smug if we haven't made the difference.

Andy, I think everyone should see this movie. We owe it to the next generation to see the movie. Everyone can form their own opinions. My opinion is that we do not conserve as we should here in the US. I do believe that we all need to care what we do to our environment. For Username, all I can say is that yes I do care, I think everyone should.

As far as caring what other countries think, I want to no how we are perceived. If most of the world thinks we are wasteful, maybe we need to take a look at why we are perceived that way. I think it is foolish not to care. I think that is the problem with the world today, most people only think of themselves.
 
For Username, all I can say is that yes I do care, I think everyone should.

As far as caring what other countries think, I want to no how we are perceived. If most of the world thinks we are wasteful, maybe we need to take a look at why we are perceived that way. I think it is foolish not to care. I think that is the problem with the world today, most people only think of themselves.



Interesting, because one of the criticisms of the right wing to anyone questioning the present administration's handling of issues awhile back was to say in no uncertain terms, that all that "dissent talk" was playing right into the terrorist's hands and the middle east countries will percieve us as being weak and ineffective. They certainly seemed to care about world opinion very much when it came to criticism of the President, but when it comes to other things not so important to them, that's suddenly a horse of a different color.
 














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