An article on "Does DVC save you money?"

[havoc315]

no I would stay at the Hilton Head and look at the swamp there or Vero Beach so on and so on

Nah, those will be gone by 2042...

I seriously don't know why it's so hard for people just to say, "I bought DVC because I wanted it. I want annual vacations at Disney... by committing far in advance, it will cost me less. I want to stay on property, I want the nice resort, I want the villas.... The purchase isn't how I'm funding my kid's colleges. The purchase is for me and my family to enjoy!"

 

[Lumpy1106]

I've done tha math before, and if you buy direct, you will pay about the same price as a higher-end moderate room for a dexule studio, while if you buy resale, it's closer to a high end value or low-end moderate rate.

The author is comparing Disney prices to off-site hotels, which are obviously cheaper, but don't come with the transportation options and location of a DVC resort.

I did that too - years before we bought, and that's the conclusion I came to, which was why I didn't buy. We were pretty darned happy staying in a Moderate, why pay for Deluxe? I think I made one error though; I was running the instantaneous numbers. I was not projecting ahead 5-10 years and guessing what the future rack rate would be. Sure, maintenance fees go up, but not as much as the room rack rate, and the cost of the DVC stay does not go up as much as the rack rate room simply because a big chunk of the DVC cost is the initial cost to buy the points. What's done is done in that respect - that part does not go up. AND...If you decide you don't want to do it anymore, you can always sell it back on the resale market. If you bought it resale, all the better.

Edit to add;
Having a 3rd kid sealed it. As the first 2 got older we pretty much have to have the 1br now. DVC pencils out pretty quick when you do that comparison.

 

[Eric Smith]

So you can state... even if global warming turns Orlando into 120 degrees year-round, even if it forces them to shut down the theme parks and Magic Kingdom gets replaced by a sewage dump, you can state that you still would have booked an annual trip to the Swan or Dolphin?

And.. what year did you buy DVC? And the year after you purchased, you had more money in your savings account, thanks to buying DVC?

Doesn't sound like you "saved" money. Sounds like you simply spent your money on something different -- something with more upfront cost, more committed cost, but potential less future cost.

You're arguing semantics. I spent less for a hotel room on my trips after I bought DVC than I did before even with factoring in the initial buy in cost. That's a pretty simple thing to figure out.

All of the what ifs are pointless. If global warming gets bad enough that Orlando hits 120 degrees, the world is ending. It won't matter how much money I have at that point.

You have a different definition of saving, but that's fine. Just move along. I'm just going to block you because you just seem interested in arguing instead of discussing things.

 

[havoc315]

You're arguing semantics. I spent less for a hotel room on my trips after I bought DVC than I did before even with factoring in the initial buy in cost. That's a pretty simple thing to figure out.

All of the what ifs are pointless. If global warming gets bad enough that Orlando hits 120 degrees, the world is ending. It won't matter how much money I have at that point.

You have a different definition of saving, but that's fine. Just move along. I'm just going to block you because you just seem interested in arguing instead of discussing things.

Guess we are both arguing semantics... but that's what this thread is.

The author of the shared article correctly pointed out that DVC is not a "savings." It might be a great value, but a great value is different than a "savings."

 

[Nabas]

DVC most assuredly saves you money, if you fit the profile. Like others, I have created a complex Excel spreadsheet (with over 20 input parameters) to crunch the numbers.

The most important requirement is that you have to be a "Deluxe Resorts only" kind of person. If you are content with Value of Moderate Resorts, then you're never going to save with DVC.

Other important considerations is how often you go (at least once every 3 years) and what type of room you stay in. (Cash vs. DVC, Studios offer the greatest savings, one-bedroom villas offer the least savings. The math behind this is simple. Disney typically charges around 50% more for a cash one-bedroom villa, whereas a one-bedroom villa requires double the number of DVC points.)

When you go also is a factor, particularly if you go when Disney does not historically offer discounts on cash rooms.

Even if you are a "Deluxe Resort only" kind of person, it could take decades before you start saving enough to justify the initial purchase price. The length of time to reach this break-even point depends on where you stay and how much you paid for your DVC purchase. Obviously, you'll reach the break-even point sooner if you buy resale.

 

[Ruttangel]

I’ve lost track of what we are all arguing about.

I think we have highly educated DVC buyers on this forum who are very happy with our purchases and would probably do it all again in a heartbeat. Most would do it sooner.

Yes, there will be people who buy DVC on a whim and continually let points expire and simply just don’t manage their membership effectively, squandering $1,000’s but I don’t think you would find those folks on these boards as we are so emotionally invested in Disney we spend every day chatting about it.

 

[Lumpy1106]

I’ve lost track of what we are all arguing about.

I think we have highly educated DVC buyers on this forum who are very happy with our purchases and would probably do it all again in a heartbeat. Most would do it sooner.

Yes, there will be people who buy DVC on a whim and continually let points expire and simply just don’t manage their membership effectively, squandering $1,000’s but I don’t think you would find those folks on these boards as we are so emotionally invested in Disney we spend every day chatting about it.

It's not just DVC. I was an avid snowboarder before I had kids. It was always shocking to me just how many people purchased season passes to a ski resort and never even picked them up (it was something like 25-30%!). Even Disney AP's - it depends on the level of pass you buy, but on average it takes 8 entrances to "break even". How many AP holders go < 8 days in a year or go for a couple of hours and call that a "day"?

 

[Brian Noble]

"saving money" is minimizing a necessary expense

I understand and agree with your overall point, but this seems unnecessarily narrow. An item doesn't have to be necessary to compare different ways of buying it to see which one costs less.

 

[Nabas]

I purchased a DVC resale 10 years ago when resale prices were close to half what they are today. I added up all my room costs since then, including the original purchase price, closing fees, and annual Maintenance Fees.

To date, I've averaged $182.25 per night for a Studio at Disney's DVC Resorts.

Over the last 10 years, I have stayed in Studios at all DVC Resorts, from Old Key West (which averages the lowest points per night) to the Villas at the Grand Floridian (which averages the most).

Taking into account that Disney's room prices were less 10 years than they are today, I'm guessing that the $182.25 that I have averaged is roughly the price of a discounted Moderate Resort room, with tax.

 

[havoc315]

I understand and agree with your overall point, but this seems unnecessarily narrow. An item doesn't have to be necessary to compare different ways of buying it to see which one costs less.

That’s true if you’re comparing apples to apples.
If a widget costs $100 in one store, and it’s $95 in another store.. and both stores are equidistant from your home, and they have the same refund policies, etc... Then you save $5 by purchasing in the second store.

But if the $100 store includes a 90 day refund policy and overnight shipping...

While store #2 only has a 15-day exchange policy.. and they do 2-day shipping...

Then you’re not really “saving” $5 buying in the second store. You’re paying less cash, but you’re also getting less.

With DVC... you’re “getting less” by tying up most of the expense up front, by needing to use booking windows far in advance, etc.

Now for many people (myself included), it’s still a “good deal.” It’s a good product at a good price. But it’s not saving. It’s not extra money I have in the bank thanks to buying DVC. Sure, potentially it could be extra money in my bank in the distant future. But that’s not really savings.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

We are definitely saving money. We spend a certain amount on vacations every year and have done so since around 2012. Since we bought dvc a couple of years ago, we spend the same but we definitely get more vacations.

 

[Bruggok]

Some of you are confused by the article's author's use of the word "save money". It is because the author shifted definition on "save money" mid-stream in his meandering essay. Not sure if it was sloppy writing or purposeful straw man. I suspect it was the latter.

Including first occurrence in the title, the author used "save" 8 times in total. Second and third use of the word "save" correctly highlighted the point that many of us have said, which was that one saves money buying DVC if one goes on Disney vacation every 1-2 years and stays in villas or high-end rooms. Simple arithmetic supports this point. Importantly, the existence of less expensive onsite cash stays with discount code some of the times does not invalidate this point. Instead of arguing head on, the author goes off on a tangent and claims DVC villas are luxurious and essentially entices members to spend more than they would otherwise, but again without evidence. Similarly, the author's fourth use of "save" returns to the same definition as previously "...the program is a way to save money if you go to Disney often..."

Starting on his fifth use of "save" is when the author pulls a straw man. He claimed "People who go to Disney every year don’t have much interest in saving money, because going to Disney is extremely expensive any way you do it." To illustrate his fallacy, that is as illogical as claiming "homebuyers who buy $1 million+ homes have no interest in saving money in any aspect of the home buying process, because they are ok with blowing money". The author then follows up with the sixth use of "save" as "If you actually want to save money, it’s far cheaper to stay at a low-rated discount hotel near the property than it is to stay in one of Disney’s branded hotels." By now, it was obvious to me why he straw manned; instead of arguing a point that he had no evidence for and couldn't win, he pivoted to one that he could. From that point on, the author wrote as if he was drunk, half-asleep, or didn't care about making his point.

A separate point that bothered me was the author's misuse of the word "investment". He claims Disney sells DVC as "investment" and used it as 1 of 5 keywords for his essay. However, one can easily see this is not true. On an official DVC page (https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/membership/costs/) it states in bold: the purchase of an ownership interest should only be used for personal use and enjoyment, should be based upon its value as a vacation experience and should not be for the purpose of acquiring an income or appreciating investment. In all my interactions with DVC sales, I have never, ever heard DVC touted as investment. In all my time here on Disboards, I've never, ever heard of DVC discussed as investment.

To summarize, this article's author Jordan Fraser wrote such a poor essay about DVC that failed to argue his point. However, he seemed to have found success confusing people here on Disboards into the silly notion that buying DVC is about saving money versus staying off-site or versus investing the money elsewhere. Hopefully my longwinded rebuttal will clear up the confusion. More importantly, hopefully some of you can stop defending this indefensible essay.

 

[gisele2]

I compared renting points ( 2 bedrooms villas are what we like ) to owning them , and for my BLT contract is way cheaper , but for my BCV contract it is almost the same . But I was never able to rent at BCV. Had to be on the hotel side if I wanted to go and that is more expensive than my points even for 2 standard hotel rooms ..

 

[gisele2]

Why do you find the comments funny? I certainly enjoy reading everyone's comments about DVC which costs lots and lots of $$$ and appreciate the time that people took to share their thoughts to help people like myself make a well-informed decision. Buying a DVC is a serious matter, isn't it?

Of , course but sometimes people must agree to desagree . Will I save money with DVC ? Yes and no . Yes for the type of room I want . 2 bedrooms villas , no because I will go more often and I will spend more. The years I will not be able to go I will rent my points and break even .

But what it did to me is bringing me joy in a difficult time . Reading about Disney on this blog , chasing the resale contract , interacting with Disney lovers like me is awesome . Thanks everyone .

 

[The Jackal]

What a poorly written article. States most resorts are 2042 and you have to but at least 160 points. To buy direct now you have to buy at least 125 for non members. Apparently they changed this recently from 75 points. There are 15 DVC resorts and only 6 have a 2042 date associated with them and 1 of those had a partial extension. The author didn’t do much research.

 

[havoc315]

We are definitely saving money. We spend a certain amount on vacations every year and have done so since around 2012. Since we bought dvc a couple of years ago, we spend the same but we definitely get more vacations.

You just said it yourself — you’re not saving. You’re spending the same. You just are getting more. Which is a great deal, since you like the more that you’re getting.

 

[smisale]

That’s true if you’re comparing apples to apples.
If a widget costs $100 in one store, and it’s $95 in another store.. and both stores are equidistant from your home, and they have the same refund policies, etc... Then you save $5 by purchasing in the second store.

But if the $100 store includes a 90 day refund policy and overnight shipping...

While store #2 only has a 15-day exchange policy.. and they do 2-day shipping...

Then you’re not really “saving” $5 buying in the second store. You’re paying less cash, but you’re also getting less.

With DVC... you’re “getting less” by tying up most of the expense up front, by needing to use booking windows far in advance, etc.

Now for many people (myself included), it’s still a “good deal.” It’s a good product at a good price. But it’s not saving. It’s not extra money I have in the bank thanks to buying DVC. Sure, potentially it could be extra money in my bank in the distant future. But that’s not really savings.

If it not saving you money and by saving I mean if a widget cost 80 dollars at one store and 60 at another with all things equal then the SAVINGS is 20 and I know I’m gonna by my widgets every year no matter what store I go to maybe I buy more while there on sale. Just like anyone would then maybe you need to sell if you own DVC which I imagine you do unless your SAVING money keeping it

 

[Nabas]

I purchased a DVC resale 10 years ago when resale prices were close to half what they are today. I added up all my room costs since then, including the original purchase price, closing fees, and annual Maintenance Fees.

To date, I've averaged $182.25 per night for a Studio at Disney's DVC Resorts.

Over the last 10 years, I have stayed in Studios at all DVC Resorts, from Old Key West (which averages the lowest points per night) to the Villas at the Grand Floridian (which averages the most).

Taking into account that Disney's room prices were less 10 years than they are today, I'm guessing that the $182.25 that I have averaged is roughly the price of a discounted Moderate Resort room, with tax.

Earlier, I mentioned that I have averaged $182.25 per night for a DVC Studio over the last 10 years.

This works out to $5.81 per point for the initial purchase, and an average of $6.29 per point for Maintenance Fees, a total of $12.10 per point.

However, I bought resale at a time when resale prices were about half what they are today.

In 2011, I purchased my DVC for $55 per point. You'd be hard pressed to find a WDW DVC resale for less than double that today.

Disney currently is direct selling the Riviera for $201 per point, with a $21 discount for the number of points I purchased. At $180 per point, that's more than triple what I paid 10 years ago.

If you factor in the Riviera's current $180 price, I would have paid about $381 per night.

If you buy directly from Disney, DVC only makes sense if you plan to stay exclusively at Deluxe Resorts for years and years.

 

[RoseGold]

I seriously don't know why it's so hard for people just to say, "I bought DVC because I wanted it. I want annual vacations at Disney... by committing far in advance, it will cost me less. I want to stay on property, I want the nice resort, I want the villas.... The purchase isn't how I'm funding my kid's colleges. The purchase is for me and my family to enjoy!

I know right! Same thing with selling. Everyone acts like everyone should own this thing for 40 years, like it's two labradors or something! Even the posts about what to buy almost never have an exit strategy, like you're going to be using your kid's 3.5 days off from their stressful, first job out of college to ride Jungle Cruise. I always planned to sell when princesses outgrew it, and resale DVC is an AWESOME way to hit it and quit it.

 

[havoc315]

If it not saving you money and by saving I mean if a widget cost 80 dollars at one store and 60 at another with all things equal then the SAVINGS is 20 and I know I’m gonna by my widgets every year no matter what store I go to maybe I buy more while there on sale. Just like anyone would then maybe you need to sell if you own DVC which I imagine you do unless your SAVING money keeping it

Again, that's a "saving" only if the widgets are identical. They aren't.

If you know you want 1 widget a year for the next 50 years...
And store #1 will sell you 1 widget for $1,000 now. And they will continue to sell you widgets every year.
The other store sells their widgets in bulk --- You must buy 50 widgets at once. But their price for 50 widgets is $49,500....

You haven't "saved" $500 by buying all those widgets at once... You've paid $500 less in 2021 dollars, but you've lost the opportunity to save or invest that money otherwise, you now have to find space to store those extra 49 widgets, etc.
In fact, it would save far more actual $$$ to simply put that initial $50k into a low risk investment and pay annually.

As to the second statement -- Why would I sell DVC just because it isn't saving me money? My house, my car, my computer, my camera, my clothes, my food.... None of that saves me money. I still keep all those things.