Am I the only one who doesn't get the "Occupy Wallstreet" movements

[Acklander]

Anyone else find it ironic at that? Occupy wants to take money from the wealthy, who many have worked hard to acheive, and give it to everyone else, even if they haven't worked for it.
others.

I dont know anyone who has a problem with corporations, they have a problem with corporate greed. They aren't asking the wealthy to hand over all their money, so no one else has to work, their asking corporations to pay their fair share. Do you think it's right that GE and bank of America don't pay taxes? Do you think its right that we give tax subsidies to big oil?
We live in a society, and one of the responsibilities of being part of a society is we all contribute to the well being of the society. Its a privilege to live in a great place like America, and every year when I file my tax return I pay for the privilege of being part of a great community. Why isn't mobil oil willing to pay their share? Why does mobile oil require the country to pay them???

What's ironic, is that Americans, who pay taxes every year are willing to defend this practice.

 

[58cognac]

Also, lately all the media have been reporting on the cooks getting fed up with the homeless people coming to eat the free food (mind you this is organic chicken, and other nice items), and have begun protesting and now going to just give PB&J or brown rice until something is done, both in cost and in the moochers.

Anyone else find it ironic at that? Occupy wants to take money from the wealthy, who many have worked hard to acheive, and give it to everyone else, even if they haven't worked for it.

so looking at this, Homeless people are like a segment of Occupy. They don't have a job, nor income. they come to get a free ride from the folks that do (cooks). Because of the increase of moochers, the top ones (the cooks) with their nice food, have to decrease their offerings, and complain at the cost of dealing with them.

that right there in a nutshell is what is flawed. They are complaining about the same thing happening to them as they are doing to others.

It's the classic tale of the haves..... the have-nots...and the 'wanna have yours, but you can't have mine'

I'm *gasp* actually paying off my student loans. Novel, I know, but I believe I should pay back the money I borrowed with my eyes wide open.

My parents absolutely could not afford to pay for my education, but I did live at home with them while I completed my undergrad degree, which was a HUGE benefit. I worked 25-30 hrs/week in a daycare (Lord help me), had a couple of small scholarships (I graduated hs with a 3.73, 12th in my class, but the scholarship race was very competitive...I graduated with a few geniuses lol) that helped pay for books, lab fees etc, but that was it. I chose a state university that was literally in my back yard (Roll Tide!). I took 16-18 hrs/semester, and got a 5 year degree in 4. And in my senior year, I got a grant that helped a lot with that final year. Even still, I graduated with my BSW with a small loan.

However, when I got my Masters, I saw no way I could pay for all of it OOP. So I took out loans. Yep, from a big bank. And yep, with subsidized interest.

So, here I am paying back those loans eeeeeevery month. And I'm grateful every month that they were available to me. And I'm grateful every month that the GOV'T subsidized part of the interest.

I'm not going to complain about the stinkin' loans. Do I like them? No. But I signed those papers fully understanding I'd have to *SHOCKER* pay the money back. And I've learned that I'll do what-stinkin'-ever I have to do to pay for my kids' college educations. I do not want them to take out loans.

Suck it up, and do what you said you'd do...pay back what you owe.

Exactly.... and there are no guarantees of getting a job at any time after taking those loans out that have to be paid back regardless..... although these times are extremely tough, but I'm still trying to figure out how school loans are getting wrapped up in the debate..... I didn't consult/seek the advice of a corporation before taking out my loans????

 

[Planogirl]

Does that mean you'll make your voice heard by quitting the greedy corporation? What "gleeful(sp?)" displays have you seen from them while they were taking measures to remain a solvent company?

No, I won't quit because I need the job. Jobs aren't that easy to come by you know. Of course, if I find another opportunity I will take it.

My company is one that outsourced so that they could make more profit. They admit that on a regular basis. I saw plenty of good hard-working people lose their jobs because of this. Just a few days ago, the PTB announced that they were proud of the great profits they made in a down economy. Those profits certainly haven't been shared with employees. Salaries have been frozen for quite some time except for a less than 2% raise. We were at times furloughed and we have lost benefits that at one time existed. Yet the company is happy with their profits. I'm happy to see that the fellow in charge of our division still has his Mercedes lease car.

I can see the frustration that people talk about because the company I work for is far from unique. It's not just banks squeezing the middle class but a lot of the corporations that we work for are heavily profit focused. I see nothing wrong with paying your investors and making a good profit but I do believe that the workers deserve to be considered too.

 

[58cognac]

No, I won't quit because I need the job. Jobs aren't that easy to come by you know. Of course, if I find another opportunity I will take it.

My company is one that outsourced so that they could make more profit. They admit that on a regular basis. I saw plenty of good hard-working people lose their jobs because of this. Just a few days ago, the PTB announced that they were proud of the great profits they made in a down economy. Those profits certainly haven't been shared with employees. Salaries have been frozen for quite some time except for a less than 2% raise. We were at times furloughed and we have lost benefits that at one time existed. Yet the company is happy with their profits. I'm happy to see that the fellow in charge of our division still has his Mercedes lease car.

I can see the frustration that people talk about because the company I work for is far from unique. It's not just banks squeezing the middle class but a lot of the corporations that we work for are heavily profit focused. I see nothing wrong with paying your investors and making a good profit but I do believe that the workers deserve to be considered too.

So you're essentially saying they are doing their jobs. They're hired to make the company money in good times and bad. Their jobs are to do what's necessary to achieve measurable results over the previous period. Anyone who takes a job working for another person/company has to know the reality that in a down economy, the bosses are not obligated to anyone below them. If you were born a Hilton, it's great. Heavy profit focus is by no means a new idea of thought. I would think most anyone who starts a business, big or small, is wanting to focus on profit. Now if the division leader still has his Mercedes, so be it. That is his choice to keep the car, but I'm not sure why someone would have to downsize if their situation hasn't changed.

If you still have your job, I'm glad, that is truly a blessing for you. My husband has been laid off twice. It's impossible for anyone to not see the ordeal people are going through with unemployment, having less money for life needs and paying quadruple for essentials. I also live in an area where, long before the down economy, I watch the abuse of social services everyday at the grocery store. That is one drop in a very large bucket of why you have to see hard working people lose their jobs.

So if we really start to dissect the mess we're in now, the blame can be shared by more than business and politicians.... people have their share in this situation.

 

[m&m's mom]

I'm *gasp* actually paying off my student loans. Novel, I know, but I believe I should pay back the money I borrowed with my eyes wide open.

My parents absolutely could not afford to pay for my education, but I did live at home with them while I completed my undergrad degree, which was a HUGE benefit. I worked 25-30 hrs/week in a daycare (Lord help me), had a couple of small scholarships (I graduated hs with a 3.73, 12th in my class, but the scholarship race was very competitive...I graduated with a few geniuses lol) that helped pay for books, lab fees etc, but that was it. I chose a state university that was literally in my back yard (Roll Tide!). I took 16-18 hrs/semester, and got a 5 year degree in 4. And in my senior year, I got a grant that helped a lot with that final year. Even still, I graduated with my BSW with a small loan.

However, when I got my Masters, I saw no way I could pay for all of it OOP. So I took out loans. Yep, from a big bank. And yep, with subsidized interest.

So, here I am paying back those loans eeeeeevery month. And I'm grateful every month that they were available to me. And I'm grateful every month that the GOV'T subsidized part of the interest.

I'm not going to complain about the stinkin' loans. Do I like them? No. But I signed those papers fully understanding I'd have to *SHOCKER* pay the money back. And I've learned that I'll do what-stinkin'-ever I have to do to pay for my kids' college educations. I do not want them to take out loans.

Suck it up, and do what you said you'd do...pay back what you owe.

Look a REAL adult! Good for you!

 

[A Mickeyfan]

That's just odd. I completely do not get what in the world you are trying to say.





I did not say she made 6 figures right after she graduated. She also chose delayed gratification and spent years doing additional residencies and specialized training. That was why her income rose so fast.
Student loan is not all bad. If loans allow you to recive an education that leads to higher pay- it's a good investment.
My sister's SiL (husbands brothers wife) is a Doctor too. She went into a little bit of debt to get her Med degree but never worked a day as a Dr. She had kids immediately after graduating and never made a penny back on her (and her parents) investment- but she did pay off the loans. That is an example of a not-so-great investment.

I have been trying to say all along that if you are going for anything more than a Masters Degree, you are going to incur debt if you don't have a scholarship... the complaint that was raised back on the first page of this thread was why the whining about students who cannot pay back their loans, & some felt it was a choice to take out that loan.. I was merely trying to show if one wanted to continue their education beyond a Masters degree, they are going to go into dept by taking out a student loan. Not all can be paid back asap because not all graduates are making the big bucks as soon as they graduate. Life is harder now than it was many years ago and jobs (regardless what type they are) are much harder to get.. Your comment about the student loans confirmed what I had been trying to say.. now do you get that part had you not followed this from the start? I am not complaining about the student loans.. others are.. Me personally, I didn't want my child to start life out in debt.. If you go back and re-read some of these pages, from the start, you will see what I had been trying to say.. some here feel that student loans are the root of evil and and it was a poor choice to be placed into a position where they cannot pay them back... I disagreed and said without them, many could not have attended college... I think you misunderstood everything I was standing for... Without those loans, many would never had the opportunity to have gone on with their education.. not all earned scholarships, and not all can afford to go.. some even need those loans for an under grad degree... now do you get where I am coming
from...

I have gone back and re-read your original post to what I had said about debt.. and this is what you stated... I think you do understand what I am saying, but you seem to have changed your tune from your first post to your post about your sister...

"I just flat do not understand why everyone thinks they have to borrow money to go to college. What the heck is wrong with working and taking classes along the way to pay for school as you go? That's what I did and I got through undergrad and all 9 hours of a Masters with only $5000 debt and I really did not even need it.
I lived VERY cheaply and just worked my tail off working virtually full time while taking a full class load. Now I did not got to Harvard but with my degree I am making more money than I ever thought I would.
Debt is just not inevitable. I don't buy it." in your statement, you stated you incurred a debt of $5000, while that isn't much, you still incurred a debt and that was for an undergrad and only 9 hours of a Masters.. if I am correct, a full Masters degree is much more than just 9 semester hours.. so $5000 for that should not have even happened by the way you are talking... I can see going for the full Masters program.. but 9 credit hours.. that is what 3 classes???

 

[A Mickeyfan]

While we are at this with the protesting.. take a look at this... and tell me that this is not wrong...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-10-28/iraq-afghanistan-veterans-homeless/50976338/1

"More Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans wind up homeless"


This is something that should not happen. These men/women went to war for and now are homeless. Some are disabled... no jobs, no money and out on the streets.. thank you corporate America... It should be Thank You Veterans... they are the ones who made the Sacrifice for us...not Bank of America, Wells Fargo etc......

 

[MikeSF]

Not sure I get it either...

The 99%... interesting number, its them say "we the majority...", and I get it, feeling slapped down, The US Supreme Court says corporations = people, and money = speech, so they can buy...er "lobby" as representatives as they want.

However these are the percentages that really end up mattering
2010 election pulled from
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/socdemo/voting/publications/p20/2010/tables.html

Voting age group         % of registered who actually voted

18 to 24 years		21.3
25 to 44 years		37.1
45 to 64 years		54.4
65 to 74 years	        62.1
75 years and over       59.2
Total voters            45.5

So I totally get the ideals that set this off, and I absolutely support them, but it's really hard for those who do make decisions to care, when the 99% "majority" has less than half voting, and it's not too much better during a presidential year.

Those 18-24... the "college age" people... really 1 out of every 5 are voting and you have the audacity to complain that you're not having your voice heard? *sigh* Want to know why Social Security, Medicare, and all those other programs for the elderly take up so much of the budget? Look at the statistics of voters.

 

[superme80]

Just because you are now in debt from your higher education, why should you not have to pay it back? I understand that it is hard to make the payments. I understand that not everyone finished. BUT you made the debt YOU pay it back. If everyone is so mad about their student loan debt how come they are not protesting the higher institutions that charged such high prices? I have family memebers that went to medical school and pharmacy school at private universities. All three of them have either already paid the loans off, or were given grants and scholarships so they did not have to go into debt.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

Wow...maybe your DD should have used her waitressing money to pay for school instead of buying a brand new 2011 car.

She had already graduated with her BA..and the car was cheaper than her going to law school.. at that point when purchasing her car, she wanted to go onto law school and we cannot afford it. She figured why go back for her Masters at that point since money is tight for us. Now that she is seeing work is hard to find period, she considered going back...

what difference does it make to you? Your tax money didn't pay for her, I did and she did!.. no loans were taken out... and a lot should be said for a 23 year old to purchase a car outright (actually 22 when she purchased and graduated), and now living in Hawaii on her own... should it not? seems you are damned if you do and damned if you don't on these boards lately...

 

[a742246]

Fyrefly, you are a smart young person. I have "kids" around your age and I feel and see their pain as well as yours.

We send most of our manufacturing jobs overseas, and then expect everyone to exceed in a service society. Well this is what a service society looks like, it doesn't look good. Does it?

I remember during the Vietnam war protests years the same things were said about those protesters as well as the civil rights activists. Probably the same thing was said in the early 1900's when women were protesting for the right to vote.

I say if they want to protest Wall Street let them. Hopefully something good will come from it.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

Just because you are now in debt from your higher education, why should you not have to pay it back? I understand that it is hard to make the payments. I understand that not everyone finished. BUT you made the debt YOU pay it back. If everyone is so mad about their student loan debt how come they are not protesting the higher institutions that charged such high prices? I have family memebers that went to medical school and pharmacy school at private universities. All three of them have either already paid the loans off, or were given grants and scholarships so they did not have to go into debt.

no one is saying that it should not have to be paid back... where was that said at? I don't think that protesting students are saying that.. I think some of the protesting is in fact about the institutions charging those prices.. remember.. corporate America???? the rich get richer.. it all flows down that same river.. I think what many students with the loans out are saying is that they cannot pay back right away since they are not working, or earning what they should be to pay back at the rate they were expected to.. Which is why our President is trying to change it now too.. Jobs are not as easy to get as they once were when you graduate from a University..

 

[A Mickeyfan]

Not sure I get it either...

The 99%... interesting number, its them say "we the majority...", and I get it, feeling slapped down, The US Supreme Court says corporations = people, and money = speech, so they can buy...er "lobby" as representatives as they want.

However these are the percentages that really end up mattering
2010 election pulled from
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/socdemo/voting/publications/p20/2010/tables.html

Voting age group         % of registered who actually voted

18 to 24 years		21.3
25 to 44 years		37.1
45 to 64 years		54.4
65 to 74 years	        62.1
75 years and over       59.2
Total voters            45.5

So I totally get the ideals that set this off, and I absolutely support them, but it's really hard for those who do make decisions to care, when the 99% "majority" has less than half voting, and it's not too much better during a presidential year.

Those 18-24... the "college age" people... really 1 out of every 5 are voting and you have the audacity to complain that you're not having your voice heard? *sigh* Want to know why Social Security, Medicare, and all those other programs for the elderly take up so much of the budget? Look at the statistics of voters.

I don't think that the 18-24 is the "only" age group protesting.. where did you hear they were???????

 

[58cognac]

no one is saying that it should not have to be paid back... where was that said at? I don't think that protesting students are saying that.. I think some of the protesting is in fact about the institutions charging those prices.. remember.. corporate America???? the rich get richer.. it all flows down that same river.. I think what many students with the loans out are saying is that they cannot pay back right away since they are not working, or earning what they should be to pay back at the rate they were expected to.. Which is why our President is trying to change it now too.. Jobs are not as easy to get as they once were when you graduate from a University..

Are these changes before or after the Evil Corporate America campaign contribution checks have cleared?

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I did not say she made 6 figures right after she graduated. She also chose delayed gratification and spent years doing additional residencies and specialized training. That was why her income rose so fast.

I must have misunderstood this comment then about the first several years... sorry..


"I don't have to "ask my Doctor" how they did it- I can just ask my sister. The same sister that did the same thing as me and our other 2 siblings which is work and do undergrad debt free. Now yes, she did have debt for Medical School but let's just say her 7 digit annual income has absolutely no problem paying off that debt. A very good return on her investment. She lived as a poor college student the first several years making 6 digits and got those loans paid off asap so she did not have them hanging over her." maybe there should have been a comma or even a period and a new sentence to show that.... She lived as a poor college student the first several years. Making 6 digits got those loans paid off etc.... it brings a different tone to how it is said.. I did take it as she lived as a poor college student, the first several years making 6 digits and got those loans paid off etc..... see what I mean...

 

[A Mickeyfan]

Are these changes before or after the Evil Corporate America campaign contribution checks have cleared?

don't know, but I did hear that he is trying to make the changes for the student loans..

 

[58cognac]

don't know, but I did hear that he is trying to make the changes for the student loans..

For information purposes, all the candidates are on here.

Obama
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/contrib.php?cycle=2012&id=N00009638


Romney
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/contrib.php?cycle=2012&id=N00000286

 

[A Mickeyfan]

For information purposes, all the candidates are on here.

Obama
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/contrib.php?cycle=2012&id=N00009638


Romney
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/contrib.php?cycle=2012&id=N00000286

thanks.. and now for another link.. here is the link for what O'Bama is doing for the student loans...
http://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/we-cant-wait-obama-administration-lower-student-loan-payments-millions-borrowers

 

[superme80]

no one is saying that it should not have to be paid back... where was that said at? I don't think that protesting students are saying that.. I think some of the protesting is in fact about the institutions charging those prices.. remember.. corporate America???? the rich get richer.. it all flows down that same river.. I think what many students with the loans out are saying is that they cannot pay back right away since they are not working, or earning what they should be to pay back at the rate they were expected to.. Which is why our President is trying to change it now too.. Jobs are not as easy to get as they once were when you graduate from a University..

Yes some people who are protesting are wanting their student loans forgiven. I wish there could be some cut and dry reforms or help for student loans, but I don't think there ever will be. It understand how hard it is to lose a job and still have thousands of student loans to pay back. If and that is a big IF there is ever any "reform" or "help" it will benifit the banks instad of the consumer. That is just a fact of life. For me that is more than enough reason to have as little debt as possible.

 

[Marionnette]

thanks.. and now for another link.. here is the link for what O'Bama is doing for the student loans...
http://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/we-cant-wait-obama-administration-lower-student-loan-payments-millions-borrowers

So instead of having their loans forgiven after 25 years of minimal payments, the administration is proposing that loans will be forgiven after 20 years. Lower payments over a shorter period of time with the taxpayer on the hook for the balance.

Sounds like a sound fiscal policy to me.

Sure makes me wish that we took out every last possible dime in loans to pay for our childrens' educations instead of sacrificing vacations and new cars to cover tuition cost.