Alligator Incident Discussion/Fence being built at Grand Floridian?

[anna0513]

Disney is on the hook for this incident period. It had notice of a dangerous condition and it chose to not protect its patrons. There have been a couple of incidents that I have read where people have informed CMs of alligator sightings close to the shoreline. There should have been signs to warn guests of gators. They also should have warned its patrons staying in the Polynesian Bungalos that if they were caught feeding the gators they would be asked to leave the property. Proper notice to guests was necessary and not done. This is a multi-million dollar lawsuit in my opinion. Disney should try to settle ASAP. The fact that they put those fences up and signs now only leads me to believe their attorneys advised them to do so. They know that Disney's liability for this incident is a huge problem. It's a shame as I love Disney and have been a huge fan for years but this was avoidable with proper precaution and clear signs. Not everyone thinks about alligators especially on Disney property. The parents are not to blame at all in my opinion.

 

[chmurf]

As far as turning beaches into boardwalks...I found this quote from some analyst (NOT a Disney spokesperson) in the Orlando Sentinel: "Providing visitors more specific information is a good idea, Pacific Asset Management leisure analyst Bob Boyd said.

Boyd said Disney will likely step up monitoring of its gator population. And "I would expect in certain locations they'll effectively over time be fencing off and closing some off some of those areas," he said, referring to the lakefront beaches at its hotels. "I think you'll probably see more boardwalks versus beaches."

Full article here: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busi...ator-attack-signs-warning-20160616-story.html

Probably ... Until a guest has the perfectly sound idea to lean over the railing to feed the gator below and gets their arm bitten or severed, and the whole thing will start again

Guest already feel like the price they pay for the bungalows at poly entitles them to a private gator self feeding show with their leftover food ...

 

[freshmanjs]

I understand your point and I am not putting you down.

I have been a police officer for 28+ years in Columbus, OH. I have seen people get murdered while pumping gas or shopping at a mini-mart. I have seen people get killed by drunk drivers. Should the stores put up signs that you may get killed by another person while shopping or pumping gas? Do we need warnings in cars that you may get hit by someone else who was drinking? Signs/warnings are everywhere..."Drive Sober or get Pulled Over." "Click it or ticket." What happens is that people don't follow the rules for so long, my self included, that we think that since it hasn't happened before to them, it never will, it just happens to other people. Just remember, we are all "other people" to other people.

People calling for signage for everything, not you per se, will not cover it. Something will happen that has never happened before and then people will wring their hands over it. And sometimes, accidents just happen. You are safer at WDW than you are in any major city's downtown, a convenient store, on the highway...yet people are more upset about about something that they think should not have occurred or was preventable. I have not seen any less traffic on the freeways in this country, and people flock to Times Square in NYC, and we all go to mini-marts. Just because something bad happened at WDW doesn't mean that WDW is to blame. I have hit 3 deer near "Deer Xing" signs. I read the signs, deer don't. Same with gators. But then someone will get bit by a snake...it is a sad, freak, shocking tragedy.

Obviously, no one is saying there should be signs for everything conceivable in any place. Nice strawman, though. You would think Disney puts up signs by their rides warning people of the risks the way some people are talking....oh wait, they do!!!!!

 

[dizprincess717]

I guess I'm one of those seldom posters who only gets on here when something is bothering me. I think some of you must spend all your time on here putting other people's opinions down. Sad. All I want from Disney is common sense. That little three rope fence may deter people from wading, but I can't believe it would stop an alligator from coming onto the beach. Seriously, are we all going to let this happen again?? What about the canals in the campground? I camped there years ago and didn't think about gators in canals or while watching the Electrical Light Parade. There were plenty of kids playing on the beach every night. Just because an alligator hasn't come up onto the beach doesn't mean it won't happen. Should we wait until it does happen? Yes, I am full of fear. I've been on those very same beaches for 23 years. We even had our two year old granddaughter on the Poly beach Monday night. She didn't go in the water, but she was in the sand. Disney has to find a way to make it safer or I'm not going back. Period.

I've read thru most of the pages on this thread, and really had to refrain myself from commenting.

First, I'm not too active on these boards, but I have been a member for several years and have posted several times.

The attack was just a rare, freak accident. Personally, I do not feel that anyone is to blame. All anyone can do is say "I would have done XYZ differently if it were me." To me, the water of Seven Seas Lagoon is just gross and there's no way I'd put a toe in that water or allow my child to go near it just due to the "gross" factor. To each their own, there are plenty of parents who are fine wading in the water and allowing their kids to wade in the water. We can argue that "No Swimming" is not the same as No Wading/they should have had signs warning of the dangerous animals/no swimming means no parts of the body in the water PERIOD. And at the end of the day, that's all it will be here - a friendly (although some posts make it not-so-friendly) debate. We aren't the lawyers that will eventually be involved, and no matter what the outcome of a potential case may be, our opinions won't matter.

HOWEVER. To those going to extreme and saying "I won't go back to Disney World until it's safe again" (such as the comment I quoted)... BYE FELICIA! Less of a wait time for me and my family!

I live in PA, a state that is notorious for a high deer population. There are so many car accidents due to deer, some even resulting in people passing away. I was driving to Disney World a few years ago and we hit a deer and totaled our car, thankfully nobody was hurt. Do you see me, or anyone else living in states with a high deer population, crying out to "make the roads safer or we won't even drive our cars again"? No.

Same with vacations to the National Parks, I know this was discussed before. A parent said that they would not take their children there due to wildlife. To me, that is just sad. You won't take your kids to some of the most beautiful places in our own country because of wildlife? Do you know what kind of creepy crawlies are all over the place, maybe even your own home, that pose a danger to you and your family? That your chances of getting into a serious car accident are greater?

FURTHERMORE - Do you hear from the population in Florida calling out to the government to remove every gator from their State because they feel they are no longer safe? NO!! My aunt lives in Daytona Beach, and she has a pool, and there has been a time or two where a gator made its way into her pool. Is she up in arms about this? No. Because gators living in Florida is a fact of life. They get into pools, they climb up chain link fences, they are on golf courses, crossing roads, etc.

To go to Disney World and think that you are 100% safe from absolutely everything is foolish, and it's sad that it took an accident of this magnitude to burst your "everything is perfect, rainbows and unicorns in Disney World" fantasy. There is nowhere in the world where you are 100% safe, especially the world we live in today.

I worked at Disney World 10 years ago at Splash Mountain. I would see a gator at least once a week. It was a known fact that they were in the water. The waterways in Disney connect to waterways/bodies of water that are not on Disney property. There is no possible way to keep gators out of Disney World. And even if there was a way, what about the dangerous snakes? Dangerous insects? The list goes on and on.

The sad part of this is, even with all of the new signage and fences, people will still think they are above it and will try to get into the water or feed the wildlife. And to those that do, especially after this, well I guess that's just Darwinism at its finest.

My deepest sympathies go to the Graves family at this time. I just cannot begin to imagine what they are going thru. Unfortunately it was just a freak accident. I personally do not think that it's fair for anyone to bash the family and put the blame on them. Again, I honestly believe that because it was an accident that nobody is to blame. I only hope that the family will heal with time.

 

[asta]

Probably ... Until a guest has the perfectly sound idea to lean over the ralining to feed the gator below and gets their arm bitten or severed, and the whole thing will start again

Guest already feel like the price they pay for the bungalows at poly entitles them to a private gator self feeding show with their leftover food ...

I can hear it now. There will be claims of 'I didn't know gators could climb and jump'. I trust Disney will design something better than I can imagine but I don't think a boardwalk near the water will solve the problem.

And I am firmly in the camp that those bungalows helped create the perfect storm that resulted in this. If a person pays $2,000 a night I just can't see them schelpping the leftover food away at the end of their stay. A full kitchen with food prep right beside a private deck is just tempting bad behavior. Heck, I went to school with someone from another part of the world who saw water and a drain as an ok place to dispose of anything. The hall baths in our dorm were always clogged and overflowing with food and paper.

 

[freshmanjs]

I can hear it now. There will be claims of 'I didn't know gators could climb and jump'. I trust Disney will design something better than I can imagine but I don't think a boardwalk near the water will solve the problem.

No, you're wrong...there won't be those claims. Other resorts have figured out how to solve the problem. It's not that hard. Combo of boardwalks and signs works fine. Disney has figured out how to manage lots of other risks.

 

[chmurf]

I think signs warning people about gators would cause a good portion of people to look for them and feed them. They would use this as an opportunity to enhance their and their children's Florida experience. A quick Google search turns up people doing this and are proud enough about it that they post about it on the internet.

Right, and save a few bucks by not going to Gatorland but touring the resort lakes instead ...

 

[sarah4770]

According to Jack Hanna, if an alligator is fed food even one time from a human, it will forever associate humans with food.
I am not sure I think the Poly bungalows are to blame as much as all the construction in the bay lake/lagoon area over the last several years.

 

[wdwrule]

It wasn't stalking. It stuck out in my mind because I though it strange someone would be so concerned about safety yet let young children wander the parks and resorts alone. I would have quoted it for you but there is no way I would hunt through all his posts for the last few days. I have been following the gator threads since they started.

Yes gotcha. Thought someone was searching old posts from him, profile etc. My apologies.

 

[dizprincess717]

No, you're wrong...there won't be those claims. Other resorts have figured out how to solve the problem. It's not that hard. Combo of boardwalks and signs works fine. Disney has figured out how to manage lots of other risks.

Just because other resorts have signs that warn guests of dangerous animals does not mean that there are no dangerous animals living in the water. Universal very well could have gators living in its waterways. Gators could have walked and gotten into the water. Same with hotels like Shades of Green - they have warning signs, but the gators are still there. Or the Hyatt Grand Cyprus.

What if there are gators living in the water by the Yacht and Beach Club, and one gator walks out of the water and gets on the Boardwalk? Same with the area around the Grand Floridian if they were to build a boardwalk there.

The bottom line is there is no way to keep all wildlife that is deemed dangerous off of Disney property. Or out of your own house for that matter. An unfortunate accident had to happen to burst the bubbles of many Disney vacationers, and I guarantee if people didn't know that there were gators on Disney property before they most certainly will now.

 

[chmurf]

I trust Disney will design something better than I can imagine but I don't think a boardwalk near the water will solve the problem.

If they come up with a solution, let it just be an efficient one

Now, I can't help but emember that last year's non Floridian aligator death (texas) happened when some guy thought it was smart to jump from a pier right on top of a gator after taunting the animal and despite his friends begging him not to jump

Gator signs, boardwalks or piers, spring break kids who had one too many ...

I can't imagine the foolish daring games that could come out of this mix

 

[asta]

According to Jack Hanna, if an alligator is fed food even one time from a human, it will forever associate humans with food.
I am not sure I think the Poly bungalows are to blame as much as all the construction in the bay lake/lagoon area over the last several years.

I am sure all of the construction is also to blame but the Poly bungalows are built out over the water and brings humans and food closer to the wildlife than any other lodging options.

 

[freshmanjs]

Just because other resorts have signs that warn guests of dangerous animals does not mean that there are no dangerous animals living in the water. Universal very well could have gators living in its waterways. Gators could have walked and gotten into the water. Same with hotels like Shades of Green - they have warning signs, but the gators are still there. Or the Hyatt Grand Cyprus.

What if there are gators living in the water by the Yacht and Beach Club, and one gator walks out of the water and gets on the Boardwalk? Same with the area around the Grand Floridian if they were to build a boardwalk there.

The bottom line is there is no way to keep all wildlife that is deemed dangerous off of Disney property. Or out of your own house for that matter. An unfortunate accident had to happen to burst the bubbles of many Disney vacationers, and I guarantee if people didn't know that there were gators on Disney property before they most certainly will now.

I don't think the signs would remove the animals. That would be idiotic. I don't think anyone thinks that signs remove animals.

Signs warn people about risks. Kiawah is a great example of a resort that handles the alligator issue very well (and much, much better than Disney does). Note that I am not saying Kiawah has eliminated all risk.

 

[asta]

If they come up with a solution, let it just be an efficient one

Now, I can't help but emember that last year's non Floridian aligator death (texas) happened when some guy thought it was smart to jump from a pier right on top of a gator after taunting the animal and despite his friends begging him not to jump

Gator signs, boardwalks or piers, spring break kids who had one too many ...

I can't imagine the foolish daring games that could come out of this mix

You can't fix stupid.

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

This is very true. Far, far more guests have died in traffic accidents on Disney property than have been killed by alligators in the last 45 years. Yet no one says "I'll never go back to Disney because I read in the news that someone died in a car accident there. Disney has to get rid of all the cars before I'd ever feel safe there again." It's just the fact that it's a large, scary, toothy reptile that makes the danger seem greater, when in fact it's far less.

Well the fact is that Disney has taken corrective actions. They have already changed their signage and closed and roped off beaches and another poster has said that they will be replacing the beaches. They killed 7 or 8 gators last week and you can bet they will step up watching for and removing more alligators on property especially near resorts in conjunction with state regulatory agencies. I think there will be a lot of changes coming so OP and others including myself will feel more relieved and hopefully it will prevent another tragedy.

 

[EasternShoreGal]

We just arrived home from the resort. We were staying at the BCVs during this very unfortunate week for Orlando tourism. We are certainly under no assumption that WDW is responsible for keeping us safe from what is native Florida wildlife. We did our due diligence before traveling just as anyone should when they travel anywhere. We have seen gators on property before and they have been removed when spotted but we certainly would not assume there is no native Florida wildlife on property. It would be kind of like staying at a gorgeous resort at the beach swimming in the ocean and being surprised to see a shark. Not common but not impossible to happen.

That being said, accidents do happen and my heart goes out to the family of that poor little boy.

 

[EasternShoreGal]

I have seen many people feeding the turtles at the Beach Club Villas but not alligators!!!! I've been coming to Disney for over 20 years and have never seen a gator on property although now that I think about it, I'm not surprised they are there. I presumed that Disney monitored these waters and there were no issues. Then again I'm not from Florida and perhaps gave Disney too much credit. Inexcusable that there were not warning signs for alligators especially since they have pulled out seven gators and still counting. Terrifying!!!!

We were there two years in a row where we saw gators. One was tiny and sunning itself on the waters edge of the canal and the other, a year later, was much larger and sure enough, folks were feeding it. I suggested it wasn't such a good idea to do that and was told to mind my own business. We reported both which is when we learned the deal. The first was too small but they monitor them and once they get larger they call in the Florida specialists who remove them.

 

[dizprincess717]

I don't think the signs would remove the animals. That would be idiotic. I don't think anyone thinks that signs remove animals.

Signs warn people about risks. Kiawah is a great example of a resort that handles the alligator issue very well (and much, much better than Disney does). Note that I am not saying Kiawah has eliminated all risk.

You also said... "No, you're wrong...there won't be those claims. Other resorts have figured out how to solve the problem. It's not that hard. Combo of boardwalks and signs works fine. Disney has figured out how to manage lots of other risks."

You're saying that other resorts in Florida have figured out how to solve the problem, and that a combo of boardwalks and signs works fine.

I'm saying that nobody in Florida has figured out how to solve the problem of alligators, and it will be a problem that really can't be "solved." It's the climate and environment they live in.

True, other hotels may have signs that warn of what exactly lives in the water, and now Disney is following suit after a terrible accident, but nobody has solved the problem.

 

[freshmanjs]

You also said... "No, you're wrong...there won't be those claims. Other resorts have figured out how to solve the problem. It's not that hard. Combo of boardwalks and signs works fine. Disney has figured out how to manage lots of other risks."

You're saying that other resorts in Florida have figured out how to solve the problem, and that a combo of boardwalks and signs works fine.

I'm saying that nobody in Florida has figured out how to solve the problem of alligators, and it will be a problem that really can't be "solved." It's the climate and environment they live in.

True, other hotels may have signs that warn of what exactly lives in the water, and now Disney is following suit after a terrible accident, but nobody has solved the problem.

you're just going for a semantic argument about the word solved. as i said in the part of my post you left out, i am not saying they eliminated all risk.

 

[trainingupmy4princes]

I think overall if you drop the swimming vs. wading and sign vs no sign argument. Disney is still partially at fault. There have now been several CM's reporting that Disney did nothing about guests feeding the alligators. We even have several people here acknowledging that they have seen guests doing this. A wildlife specialist is telling us this makes the alligators more dangerous and apparently it is illegal. So people were breaking the Florida laws and Disney knowingly ignored it, instead of taking proper action and notifying whatever authorities are in charge of this. I should think that Florida should be scrutinizing Disney thoroughly for looking the other way when a law is being broken.