Alligator Incident Discussion/Fence being built at Grand Floridian?

[chmurf]

Well, if I'm honest, I will admit that I intentionally break rules sometimes because I think they are stupid. An example from just yesterday: Lego store said no food or drink allowed. I brought in a water bottle. Now, If you told me i might get eaten if I brought in a drink, I'd have handled it differently.

true. But does it make it right ? (don't worry, I'm not judging you, I've also been known to break a few rules myself )

but let's push your example even further.

let's say you spill that water, the guest behind you slip on your water, fall and hurt themselves.
Is that a "danger" (possibly financial) on your foreseeable danger scope ?
Your 'victim' would probably use that sign against you.

see where I'm going ?

at that rate, in a world where there is a sign for everything, you'd probably end up having to read and agree to a 10 pages waiver of liability informing you of the risks of high carbs food, before you're allowed to order a hamburger at a restaurant.

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

Here is what I don't get, is how people who say they come to Florida all the time have never seen a gator. No offence, but even when we get off the plane, and take the monorail into the main section of the airport, we will often see an alligator. And it's not like I am able to visit all the time, due to geographical reasons. Over the years we see alligators on at least half of our visits. Perhaps we are looking for them more, or are more aware of our surroundings, but we do- growing up in the North you need to be aware of where you are and what is around you. We have seen them swimming in the water, on the Disney golf courses while playing golf, on the side of the highway within Disney property, we have even seen one that was being captured in the moat around the Magic Kingdom. We were not too surprised by it, and mentioned it to a cast member while waiting for the Jungle Cruise. They told us that although it is rare to see them around the Moat, they usually will find them along the Jungle Cruise during mating season. Apparently, the alligators mistake the fake ones for the real ones. To be honest, this incident just tears at my heart and has really really bothered me. This one incident has now profoundly affected this family's life- even when they watch tv and see an ad for the Disney movie to come out, they will be reminded. It's all of the little things in years to come that will continually affect them, and I don't think they will ever get over something like this. My prayers and thoughts are to them and all of Orlando. I also think that what happened to this little boy could have happened to anybody and I hope that there are water fences to help stop the alligators from coming to the beaches. Tourists also need to get it together and stop feeding the animals- this isn't rocket science. I hope Disney begins to fine these people and perhaps sign a waiver when they check in that they will not feed the animals.

We have been coming to Disney every year for over 20 years and have never seen a gator. Been vacationing in Florida for over 30 years and never seen a gator!

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

They said they would match teeth marks on the child with the alligator.

That makes sense

 

[freshmanjs]

true. But does it make it right ? (don't worry, I'm not judging you, I've also been known to break a few rules myself )

but let's push your example even further.

let's say you spill that water, the guest behind you slip on your water, fall and hurt themselves.
Is that a "danger" (possibly financial) on your foreseeable danger scope ?
Your 'victim' would probably use that sign against you.

see where I'm going ?

at that rate, in a world where there is a sign for everything, you'd probably end up having to read and agree to a 10 pages waiver of liability informing you of the risks of high carbs food, before you're allowed to order a hamburger at a restaurant.

2 separate thoughts

1 - Actually, I do believe that ignoring stupid rules is "right" in the ethical and moral sense.

2 - At Disney, there already are signs for many, many risks. That is actually part of the problem here. They are so inconsistent. They point out every conceivable type of person who shouldn't ride Soarin', but for the beaches they just use a very benign looking no swimming sign. That signals a skewed view of the relative risks.

 

[Nancyg56]

We have been coming to Disney every year for over 20 years and have never seen a gator. Been vacationing in Florida for over 30 years and never seen a gator!

I remember the first time I ever went to FL. I was 25 years old and had never been on plane, so Buddy, the man I later married, booked us a trip to Disney and while we were there took me sightseeing. I thought that I would die! I looked out a bus window at Kennedy Space center and there was an alligator wandering down the grass way on the side of the road! Later on we visited his Aunt in Central FL and she was laughing about the alligators in the area, I guess they were beginning to be an issue in that they would block driveways at times. She never told us to stay out of the water, but we just did. That was 32 years ago and I remember that week like it was yesterday.

 

[Polybound]

It's my understanding that whatever fence is being put up now is only temporary, that they're doing away with the beaches at the resorts, replacing them with boardwalks.

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

You are trying to create hysteria where there is none. Yes it matters in and out of the water. The gator (according to all the experts) was attracted by the splashing sounds IN the water. Much like the sounds of a struggling small animal. Had the child been OUT of the water than there would have been no splashing sounds and thus no gator to attack. I really don't think the gator was attracted by the "scent of graham crackers in the air." Plus I'm pretty sure that the movie is not on the "edge of a known alligator habitat" but more like 20 yards away. Plus all reports does not have this as a "disoriented" child wandering lost but a child splashing in the water with his dad next to him. So yes in/out of the water completely matters. Quite the hysteria and join the real world. No reason to overreact and end the fun for all because of the mistake of one.

The mistake was Disney's! Now their lawyers and insurance companies will be advising on what they should do. That is the real world.

 

[fitzperry]

I guess I'm one of those seldom posters who only gets on here when something is bothering me. I think some of you must spend all your time on here putting other people's opinions down. Sad. All I want from Disney is common sense. That little three rope fence may deter people from wading, but I can't believe it would stop an alligator from coming onto the beach. Seriously, are we all going to let this happen again?? What about the canals in the campground? I camped there years ago and didn't think about gators in canals or while watching the Electrical Light Parade. There were plenty of kids playing on the beach every night. Just because an alligator hasn't come up onto the beach doesn't mean it won't happen. Should we wait until it does happen? Yes, I am full of fear. I've been on those very same beaches for 23 years. We even had our two year old granddaughter on the Poly beach Monday night. She didn't go in the water, but she was in the sand. Disney has to find a way to make it safer or I'm not going back. Period.

You are overreacting. People are very bad at processing high stakes / low probability events like this. The number of people who have visited WDW in the past 45 years is probably close to a billion. This happened once. Due to an unlikely confluence of events. My heart breaks for this family, but it was a tragic accident. WDW is still a very safe place, and it is no less safe now than it was the last time you were there. It is always advisable to be aware of your surroundings and educated about the risks they might entail, but saying you won't go back until Disney makes it safer is just completely illogical.

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

It's my understanding that whatever fence is being put up now is only temporary, that they're doing away with the beaches at the resorts, replacing them with boardwalks, similar to what's at the Boardwalk Resort right now.

Did you read or hear this somewhere? I wouldn't be surprised at all! As I said earlier I would grass the beach area by the Beach Club. That would not take away from my enjoyment of this resort at all. That along with fencing would make it a safe area. Disney has beautiful pool areas to enjoy the water!

 

[GPC0321]

I'm not sure I want to live in a world where there is a warning sign on everything
because the more you put specific signs up, the less people use their common sense

Imagine that inside a park there is a sign saying "Don't climb on rocks"

you'll always find someone who will climb and hurt themselves. We all know it will eventually happen no matter what.

But you will always find people who will argue that
- it was not technically a rock, it was more of a boulder
- I didn't technically climb on that rock, I climbed on the pebbles that were resting atop that rock
- I have seen the sign but it was 9 feet away on another set of rocks, how could I have known that it aslo applied to that rock

the parks have been careless and failed to warn me

let's push it further

guy climbs on rock despite the sign, and is scared by a bee, which eventually leads to that guy falling and hurting himself.

- the sign did not warn that the reason why it was forbidden to climb rock was that there could be bees scaring you off, I was not properly warned
(and along the lines of 'i knew about the dropoff but went in nonetheless') :
- I was aware that I could fall, but it's the bee I was not warned against that caused my fall, the park should have mentionned this on the sign

yes, that's endless

wouldn't it be so much more efficient to lessen risks, to invite people to use their common sense, and start thinking for themselves ?

Have anyone noticed that the more signs and instructions there is, the less people think for themselves ?

people seem to think that the signs say it all, and when they don't tragedy ensues.
but the cold hard and sad truth is that people don't even read signs ...

signs are not there for the public to see. They're there for companies not to get sued when someone acts carelessly

Yes!

I guess we all have different levels of instincts about possible dangers. Personally, I would never put a toe in that water day or night, gators or no gators, and I certainly wouldn't let my child. That's my personal instinct about the bodies of water around the Disney property with "NO Swimming" signs. Heck, that's my instinct about ANY body of water anywhere in the world that doesn't seem to be explicitly used by people FOR swimming. Maybe because I live near the coast of NC and there is a lot of swampland and rivers and sounds and creeks, etc. and I know what lives in places like that. Some friends of mine have a man-made pond right at their house with a dock on it and a zip line across it. They swim in it all the time. So do frogs, snapping turtles, and snakes. No THANK you!

I hate that this happened to this baby and his family. HATE it. I'm glad that in the wake of the tragedy, Disney is taking extra measures to dissuade guests from making uninformed or risky choices.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Did you read or hear this somewhere? I wouldn't be surprised at all! As I said earlier I would grass the beach area by the Beach Club. That would not take away from my enjoyment of this resort at all. That along with fencing would make it a safe area. Disney has beautiful pool areas to enjoy the water!

Alligators like tall grass, actually.

 

[Polybound]

Did you read or hear this somewhere? I wouldn't be surprised at all! As I said earlier I would grass the beach area by the Beach Club. That would not take away from my enjoyment of this resort at all. That along with fencing would make it a safe area. Disney has beautiful pool areas to enjoy the water!

Fox news interview with a Disney executive.

 

[GPC0321]

Did you read or hear this somewhere? I wouldn't be surprised at all! As I said earlier I would grass the beach area by the Beach Club. That would not take away from my enjoyment of this resort at all. That along with fencing would make it a safe area. Disney has beautiful pool areas to enjoy the water!

Grass by the water makes me think snakes. They like grass.
The boardwalk idea is good to me. I have no love for sand. LOL.

 

[fitzperry]

I'm not sure I want to live in a world where there is a warning sign on everything
because the more you put specific signs up, the less people use their common sense

I'd go one further than not using common sense - people will actively do stupid things. I suspect part of the analysis behind the lack of specific signage is that Disney doesn't want to call attention to the gators / snakes - both because they don't want to alarm people who are inclined to overreact to such things and also because such warnings would have the unintended but foreseeable consequence of enticing a different group of yahoos, who otherwise wouldn't have given a moment's thought to alligators, to seek them out in order to add that experience to their Disney vacation.

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

Grass by the water makes me think snakes. They like grass.
The boardwalk idea is good to me. I have no love for sand. LOL.

I don't think snakes but extending or redesigning the walkway there's is fine with me. I'm sure Disney will design it beautifully

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

Alligators like tall grass, actually.

The grass in front of Beach Club is not tall. It's mowed. But I like the idea of a redesign similar to the Boardwalk. It will be interesting to see Disney redesign their property to make it safer. I'm sure it will be very attractive!

 

[_auroraborealis_]

The grass in front of Beach Club is not tall. It's mowed. But I like the idea of a redesign similar to the Boardwalk. It will be interesting to see Disney redesign their property to make it safer. I'm sure it will be very attractive!

All the boardwalks through grassy areas on Sanibel warn you about gators.

I think Disney should be careful about redesign. As we've seen on many threads, many people have already clung to a false sense of security on-property. Disney need to maintain a healthy sense of risk in people.

 

[Polybound]

The grass in front of Beach Club is not tall. It's mowed. But I like the idea of a redesign similar to the Boardwalk. It will be interesting to see Disney redesign their property to make it safer. I'm sure it will be very attractive!

Well at least it'll be a better fit, since there's nothing real at Disney anyway.

 

[GPC0321]

Well, if I'm honest, I will admit that I intentionally break rules sometimes because I think they are stupid. An example from just yesterday: Lego store said no food or drink allowed. I brought in a water bottle. Now, If you told me i might get eaten if I brought in a drink, I'd have handled it differently.

Right, but we cannot all go around deciding which rules we think are "stupid" and breaking them. What if they told you you'd get thrown out of the store for having that bottle of water with you? Would you have argued with them that their rule is "stupid"?

Our society's general attitude about breaking rules and laws they don't think apply to them is getting out of hand. To the point that various authorities are almost afraid to ENFORCE the rules and laws for fear that the person breaking it will accuse the authority figure of harassment, discrimination, or whatever else. Rules are made for a reason. No food and drink is most likely because of the risk of spills and messes, surely. If you were drinking your water and someone bumped you and you dropped it and it spilled everywhere, even on another customer or on a piece of merchandise that was ruined or whatever, you'd be at fault for not following the rule. Not the person who bumped you, not the store for failing to be more explicit with their sign, but you. Because you chose to interpret that sign how you wanted and ignore what you thought was a "stupid" rule.

 

[asta]

I'd go one further than not using common sense - people will actively do stupid things. I suspect part of the analysis behind the lack of specific signage is that Disney doesn't want to call attention to the gators / snakes - both because they don't want to alarm people who are inclined to overreact to such things and also because such warnings would have the unintended but foreseeable consequence of enticing a different group of yahoos, who otherwise wouldn't have given a moment's thought to alligators, to seek them out in order to add that experience to their Disney vacation.

I think signs warning people about gators would cause a good portion of people to look for them and feed them. They would use this as an opportunity to enhance their and their children's Florida experience. A quick Google search turns up people doing this and are proud enough about it that they post about it on the internet.