Alligator dragged 2 year old into 7 seas lagoon

[gina2000]

I live in the land of the rip tides - the Jersey shore. Very often we cannot swim because of these dangerous conditions. However, no swimming does not mean don't put your toes and ankles in the water. It means don't go out there and ride the waves. It also means no wading in the surf because you are likely to be knocked down and dragged out.

No swimming does not convey "Stay completely out of the water and away from the edge" to me. It does convey danger but that danger is very specific due to the ocean rip tides. We often sit at the edge of the water or walk in ankle deep with rips. So not all of us read the sign the same way.

 

[jodifla]

I don't blame the parents -- or Disney. It was a horrific tragedy.

It sounds like the parents broke a rule of safety though, which is to have a child within arm's reach whenever they are in water. Especially in a lake, where you cannot see the bottom. Especially in the dark/dusk, because as anyone with outdoor savvy knows, that's often feeding time in the water. The child could have just as easily decided to venture out further, fallen, and drowned in the time it took the parent to find and snatch them up in murky water.

 

[chmurf]

Let's take a "Caution Hot" sign

It doesn't strictly say you can't touch it.
It says you should exercise caution.

To my son, I will tell this means "don't touch it"
To me it means I will avoid touching it if I can.

the whole thread seems to be revolving around the 'I will touch it because I'm not explicitely forbidden to, therefore this means I can, and I will'

some would argue that since it's not forbidden, it's okay to push it with their foot because it's not forbidden, and there is no indication about body parts, and no manual of operation stating the proper use of the "hot thing"

come on guys, if you have a scalding hot kettle on your stove, there's nothing preventing you from grabbing it with your toes and pour coffee for the whole table
it doesn't change the fact that it's will seem as a lack of common sense to many people, and is potentially very dangerous

sometines it's not because you're not specifically forbidden to do something that it means it's alright to do it (and for some it means that they have to do it to exercise their freedom of acting stupid)

would you cross I4 on foot during rush hour ? No ... why ... I didn't see a sign informing that it was dangerous.

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

 

[Kimberlyann11]

View attachment 176155

You just literally made me lol!

 

[asta]

I don't blame the parents -- or Disney. It was a horrific tragedy.

It sounds like the parents broke a rule of safety though, which is to have a child within arm's reach whenever they are in water. Especially in a lake, where you cannot see the bottom. Especially in the dark/dusk, because as anyone with outdoor savvy knows, that's often feeding time in the water. The child could have just as easily decided to venture out further, fallen, and drowned in the time it took the parent to find and snatch them up in murky water.

I agree. Forget the alligators, the drowning risk would be tremendous in that dark murky water at night. With all that slimy, reedy growth that rims the lagoon it would be so easy to slip and fall.

 

[mjkacmom]

Let's take a "Caution Hot" sign

It doesn't strictly say you can't touch it.
It says you should exercise caution.

To my son, I will tell this means "don't touch it"
To me it means I will avoid touching it if I can.

the whole thread seems to be revolving around the 'I will touch it because I'm not explicitely forbidden to, therefore this means I can, and I will'

some would argue that since it's not forbidden, it's okay to push it with their foot because it's not forbidden, and there is no indication about body parts, and no manual of operation stating the proper use of the "hot thing"

come on guys, if you have a scalding hot kettle on your stove, there's nothing preventing you from grabbing it with your toes and pour coffee for the whole table
it doesn't change the fact that it's will seem as a lack of common sense to many people, and is potentially very dangerous

sometines it's not because you're not specifically forbidden to do something that it means it's alright to do it (and for some it means that they have to do it to exercise their freedom of acting stupid)

would you cross I4 on foot during rush hour ? No ... why ... I didn't see a sign informing that it was dangerous.

But if the No swimming sign is there because there are no lifeguards, or a steep drop, there is no harm in stepping in the water - no burn, no getting run over. Now, if the sign said "Cauion, alligators," there would be a reason not to step in.

 

[mjkacmom]

Good Lord I hope not. I think what we are trying to say is that to some of us, the sign wasn't ambiguous. In certain parts of the country No Swimming means you don't get in the water at all. It never even dawned on me before this that others didn't read it the same way.

And it never dawned on me that no swimming meant no wading.

 

[pocomom]

Let's take a "Caution Hot" sign

It doesn't strictly say you can't touch it.
It says you should exercise caution.

To my son, I will tell this means "don't touch it"
To me it means I will avoid touching it if I can.

the whole thread seems to be revolving around the 'I will touch it because I'm not explicitely forbidden to, therefore this means I can, and I will'

some would argue that since it's not forbidden, it's okay to push it with their foot because it's not forbidden, and there is no indication about body parts, and no manual of operation stating the proper use of the "hot thing"

come on guys, if you have a scalding hot kettle on your stove, there's nothing preventing you from grabbing it with your toes and pour coffee for the whole table
it doesn't change the fact that it's will seem as a lack of common sense to many people, and is potentially very dangerous

sometines it's not because you're not specifically forbidden to do something that it means it's alright to do it (and for some it means that they have to do it to exercise their freedom of acting stupid)

would you cross I4 on foot during rush hour ? No ... why ... I didn't see a sign informing that it was dangerous.

You've got a bad mix of analogies here, that don't relate at all to what the parents did. They weren't crossing I4 at rush hour. The risk WAS NOT obvious -to them , to millions of other visitors or to Disney itself. That is specifically why you have signs- to warn people of risks that might not be obvious to some.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

But if the No swimming sign is there because there are no lifeguards, or a steep drop, there is no harm in stepping in the water - no burn, no getting run over. Now, if the sign said "Cauion, alligators," there would be a reason not to step in.

Disney has signs that say no lifeguard on duty - swim at your own risk.

 

[pocomom]

I agree. Forget the alligators, the drowning risk would be tremendous in that dark murky water at night. With all that slimy, reedy growth that rims the lagoon it would be so easy to slip and fall.

1. In my memory the area by the beaches at Polynesian and Fort Wilderness are clear , is this not the case?
2. The reeds etc at most places are a strategy to keep Canada geese away. They would be intentionally put there by Disney, because the Geese don't want to land where predators might be... I wonder if that might increase Disney's culpability? If they intentionally landscaped in a Gator friendly manner to not deal with Geese?

 

[gottaluvPluto]

You've got a bad mix of analogies here, that don't relate at all to what the parents did. They weren't crossing I4 at rush hour. The risk WAS NOT obvious -to them , to millions of other visitors or to Disney itself. That is specifically why you have signs- to warn people of risks that might not be obvious to some.

If we had to have signs for every danger ... signs would be every where and no one would read them. Most people dismiss signs anyway.

Does Disney have a sign that says don't bend down near shrubs or don't walk through shrubs? I haven't seen any, but we all know that snakes go there for the shade. A person can easily be bitten by a pigmy rattle, copperhead or a cotton mouth.

 

[pocomom]

If we had to have signs for every danger ... signs would be every where and no one would read them. Most people dismiss signs anyway.

Does Disney have a sign that says don't bend down near shrubs or don't walk through shrubs? I haven't seen any, but we all know that snakes go there for the shade. A person can easily be bitten by a pigmy rattle, copperhead or a cotton mouth.

No one is saying to sign the whole world, but the lack of understanding in these threads alone says the signs that were there were not adequate.

 

[chmurf]

The risk WAS NOT obvious -to them

Precisely my point.
Cars speeding by might not be obvious danger to a jaywalker.

There are also things that will alter your perception of danger, such as drugs or alcohol (STOP right there, I'm not saying or implying that the parents were under that kind of influence, this is not the point I'm making)
but one thing is for sure, it's that many guests are under a 'Disney Influence'

Disneyworld feels like a safe haven, a bubble out of the real world, and sure, everything is made to have you immersed in that magically fantastic milk and honey place.
This will have people forget that, it's still the real world. There will be 'baddies' (and I won't get graphic), there will be accidents. It's real world, it's not like you'll get knocked of by a flower pot and come back to life like Felix Fix It.

False sense of security. Assumption that Disney will take care of everything, and take every danger away from your path.
Some guests can be seen as those people in Wall-E, nicely lying on their hovering lounger, toes in the sand, not a worry in the world, a cold drink in my hand (sorry ... just a song in the back of my head)

Brains set to 'off' . Some guests do things at Disney they wouldn't even consider 'in real life'

 

[nugov2]

If we had to have signs for every danger ... signs would be every where and no one would read them. Most people dismiss signs anyway.

Does Disney have a sign that says don't bend down near shrubs or don't walk through shrubs? I haven't seen any, but we all know that snakes go there for the shade. A person can easily be bitten by a pigmy rattle, copperhead or a cotton mouth.

Still not the same. Where I live there is a huge difference between no swimming and no wading. You see both signs because one does not equal the other. This has been explained ad nauseum. People familiar and used to these sign distinctions in addition to the beach set up/encouragement to play in and even build sand castles in did not help anyone to think no swimming would equal no touching. CM give buckets. There are pictures of kids playing in another disney lagoon. None of these snakes/hot stove/walking on an interstate are remotely the same thing. Disney presented it as a beach in every way and could have done more to properly warn their guests. They did not. I don't think it was intentional, but they now need to rectify the situation and they are. I'm glad. Signs are posted everywhere to warn people of dangers especially when it relates to water and what might be in them. Hawaii, California, Seattle, Australia all of which are probably common sense to experienced locals, so why should Disney be any different. Doesn't mean we have to go to the extreme and mean people need to be told ridiculous things now either.

ETA disney is not a safe bubble for me. I don't even get that mentality. I don't think anyone thought an alligator attack wouldn't happen because they were in the magical land of disney, but because they were at a resort beach with planned activities right there on that beach. Any person who views themselves safe from danger because they at disney is ignorant. That is a ridiculous concept. Sounds like a child like concept and not the thinking of an adult .

 

[gottaluvPluto]

Still not the same. Where I live there is a huge difference between no swimming and no wading. You see both signs because one does not equal the other. This has been explained ad nauseum. People familiar and used to these sign distinctions in addition to the beach set up/encouragement to play in and even build sand castles in did not help anyone to think no swimming would equal no touching. CM give buckets. There are pictures of kids playing in another disney lagoon. None of these snakes/hot stove/walking on an interstate are remotely the same thing. Disney presented it as a beach in every way and could have done more to properly warn their guests. They did not. I don't think it was intentional, but they now need to rectify the situation and they are. I'm glad. Signs are posted everywhere to warn people of dangers especially when it relates to water and what might be in them. Hawaii, California, Seattle, Australia all of which are probably common sense to experienced locals, so why should Disney be any different. Doesn't mean we have to go to the extreme and mean people need to be told ridiculous things now either.

I have been to beaches/lakes where you can enjoy the sand, but not the water.

 

[nugov2]

I have been to beaches/lakes where you can enjoy the sand, but not the water.

Ok that doesn't mean anything ...my point is that all different places exisit and many different signage to distinguish what is allowed. People used to the distinction between swimming and wading would have a different view.

 

[mjkacmom]

Disney doesn't want guests to have unpleasant thoughts, so doesn't mention the alligators, unlike the Hilton on the same body of water.

 

[mjkacmom]

I have been to beaches/lakes where you can enjoy the sand, but not the water.

Good for you!

 

[nugov2]

Also how do you enjoy the sand with no water element with small children. Seems like a place that is known to cater to kids would think sand with no building of sand castles is odd. It isn't like the beach or the CMs made it seem as if it was sand meant for volleyball or dune like where it is fun to just run up and down the hills. They set it up as a fun place to play. They encouraged it with buckets and shovel given by disney. That doesn't not scream dangerous wildlife here.