Alec Baldwin shoots/kills cinematographer and injured director after firing a "prop gun".

[JimMIA]

I actually don't - as co-producer of the film as well, he knew there were live rounds on set (even if supposedly not in that gun). He was one of the ones responsible for overseeing the whole movie and its safety on set. So, he has to check every time, ESPECIALLY b/c they had multiple issues already.

If he was only an actor, I'd agree, and then put the involuntary manslaughter charges only on the assistant director, who has earned them b/c what he did was flat reckless...but he's not...

I don't care about Baldwin -- he's just another celebrity to me -- and I have some empathy for him.

But in the final analysis, whoever has the gun in their hands is responsible for whatever comes out of the muzzle, and whatever happens as a result.

We can throw buzzword after buzzword, and link after link -- but in the end, if it's in your hands it's your gun, and whatever happens is YOUR responsibility.

All that said, I doubt if there will be any criminal charges filed in this case.

 

[TwoMisfits]

I am not trying to blame Baldwin, and I have some empathy for him.

But in the final analysis, whoever has the gun in their hands is responsible for whatever comes out of the muzzle, and whatever happens as a result.

We can throw buzzword after buzzword, and link after link -- but in the end, if it's in your hands it's your gun, and whatever happens is YOUR responsibility.

All that said, I doubt if there will be any criminal charges filed in this case.

It probably will depend on how bad it really was on set before this happened (or more specifically, how bad folks will admit it was)...charges could be brought, like they were in the Twilight Zone case, even if they figure an actor/producer or assistant director will get acquitted, just to make the point that you can't run movie sets in a recklessly unsafe manner and ignore safety laws or policies already put in place to stop these things from happening (which it seems they were doing the entire time).

But I agree there probably won't be convictions, whether or not there are charges...

 

[JimMIA]

It probably will depend on how bad it really was on set before this happened (or more specifically, how bad folks will admit it was)...charges could be brought, like they were in the Twilight Zone case, even if they figure an actor/producer or assistant director will get acquitted, just to make the point that you can't run movie sets in a recklessly unsafe manner and ignore safety laws or policies already put in place to stop these things from happening (which it seems they were doing the entire time).

But I agree there probably won't be convictions, whether or not there are charges...

I haven't seen the actual search warrant affidavit, but from the verbiage in the AP article I linked, it sounded to me like the sheriff was not looking to file criminal charges.

There clearly is tons of civil liability in this case. But if there is any criminal exposure, I don't see how there could be any without charging the person who pulled the trigger.

All the stuff about production practices is applicable in a civil lawsuit for damages, but any criminal responsibility starts with the person who pulled the trigger.

 

[Kathryn Merteuil]

So very sad

 

[bsmcneil]

This seems like a complete breakdown in safety rules on the set of Rust. As producer of Rust, Alec Baldwin is responsible for overseeing all elements of production.

If so, they are stupid and the entire chain of people who said that was a good idea deserve jail time. That would include Alec Baldwin as producer.

If as producer Alec Baldwin approved a policy to use real ammunition, he is negligent and reckless in his actions.

I don’t personally know him any more than any other fan of his TV and movies. I have certainly enjoyed many of his performances.

So, seeing many of those statements, I noticed a lot of blame on Alec Baldwin - but there are/were other producers on the film (and other people hired to do the sort of checking on things, etc that failed here). If you're working on a movie, you cannot micromanage every person's work - you have to trust the people responsible for their area. Still, it seems like your primary perspective is that he alone was the one who failed. Just him because he was a producer; from what limited behind the scenes stuff I've witnessed, a well-known actor producing a movie (with others) isn't the person overseeing everything. So, given how strongly you felt and only named him, that's why I thought you had a different opinion (and I agree - most of us don't know celebrities personally - so I'm always drawn to how we (as a society - not you) can come to quick conclusions based off of very few facts).

For me, I do think many elements failed and everyone should be held accountable; and, what seems like placing the complete (or most of) blame on Alec Baldwin bothers me because it seems that for some folks, it's personal (one PP wrote about how they could guarantee that Alec Baldwin thought he knew everything under the sun - and that really surprised me because it seemed so personal).

Anyway, thanks for clearing that up/correcting me with my assumption/question!

 

[bcla]

I actually don't - as co-producer of the film as well, he knew there were live rounds on set (even if supposedly not in that gun). He was one of the ones responsible for overseeing the whole movie and its safety on set. So, he has to check every time, ESPECIALLY b/c they had multiple issues already.

If he was only an actor, I'd agree, and then put the involuntary manslaughter charges only on the assistant director, who has earned them b/c what he did was flat reckless...but he's not...

First - he was **A** producer. But he may have just signed up for that to get publicity. The production actually lists 6 different producers, and I'd gather that each one would have a different role. I don't know how much Alec Baldwin micromanages any production.

But hearing that there was any real ammunition on set just seems bizarre. While the prop crew seems to have walked off the set, the armorer was still there and should have made sure that there wasn't any real ammunition in the guns. There have been so many reports by film armorers saying that they wouldn't allow any real ammo anywhere near a set.

 

[VandVsmama]

I'm a gun owner. Before purchasing a firearm (a revolver), I took an all day NRA class. The majority of the class was spent in a classroom, focusing on safety, safety, and then more safety lessons, followed by federal, state and city/local laws about firearms.

The #1 rule: ALWAYS assume a gun is loaded.
The #2 rule: Assume the gun is loaded EVEN IF YOU JUST CHECKED IT YOURSELF TO ENSURE IT'S NOT LOADED!
#3: ALWAYS ASSUME IT'S LOADED, EVEN IF SOMEBODY TELLS YOU THAT IT'S NOT!
#4: Before firing a gun, ALWAYS take care to pay attention to not only what you're shooting at, but what's beyond/behind what you're shooting at. You don't want someone or something else to be injured.

Mr. Baldwin broke the most important rule of all. And now somebody's dead because of that. He will have to live the rest of his life with that on his shoulders. I feel bad for him.

In my opinion, every person on a film set who's going to handle a gun should be required to take a basic handgun safety course.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Blanks typically are a cartridge with no bullet. There is a brass case, and the base of the case has an area called the primer. The primer is an impact-ignited area, which when struck by the hammer of the gun ignites and in turn ignites the gunpowder. The bullet is a lead slug which is propelled down the barrel of the gun toward the target.

In a shotgun shell, the bullet is replaced by smaller round pellets, with the size of the pellets depending on what you're hunting. Shotgun cartridge cases are also paper instead of brass.

In a blank, the lead bullet is typically replaced by a paper or plastic wad the same size diameter (caliber)-- but at close range it can do serious damage.

View attachment 615528

Thanks for the explanation. I didn't realize that there was so much going on with blanks. From the sound of what happened on that set, it does seem that there was some type of projectile involved. It sounds like this tragedy was a combination of poor working conditions, a low budget and horrible communication that when combined, led to an horrific outcome. Who knows if there will be criminal charges filed...but for sure there will be a big civil case.

 

[maxiesmom]

I'm sorry, but those of you who think he should have checked the gun are wrong. If Alec should have checked the gun (to be safe) then every actor who drives a car should have to inspect it. Every actor who has to get in the water should take a drowning safety course and know CPR. There are people on the movie sets who's jobs are to make sure those things are safe. The actors are there to act, not as safety experts.

Good grief. I use ladders daily at work, and recently received a notice on ladder safety. They didn't teach me how to take it apart to make sure it is in good, safe condition before I use it. I just had work done on my car. I didn't go over it to make sure the work was correct. People were paid to do that.

 

[TwoMisfits]

I'm sorry, but those of you who think he should have checked the gun are wrong. If Alec should have checked the gun (to be safe) then every actor who drives a car should have to inspect it. Every actor who has to get in the water should take a drowning safety course and know CPR. There are people on the movie sets who's jobs are to make sure those things are safe. The actors are there to act, not as safety experts.

Good grief. I use ladders daily at work, and recently received a notice on ladder safety. They didn't teach me how to take it apart to make sure it is in good, safe condition before I use it. I just had work done on my car. I didn't go over it to make sure the work was correct. People were paid to do that.

If it was the 1st misfire/accident, I'd agree with you.

But again, this was the THIRD in a week...AFTER a lot of your crew walks off over continued safety issues the DAY before AND you threatened to call the cops on them for leaving an unsafe working environment...so, if you aren't checking every single gun safety item as any gun handler in the chain at that point, you're negligent and possibly reckless, b/c you knew gun safety was a major issue on set. Blowing off all gun safety Hollywood rules and good owner practices, they got lucky twice...they didn't the 3rd time. And it seems to be b/c no one ever cared beyond the buck.

Seems like, with the death, I could make a case even for reckless indifference to human life...you knew you were being reckless all shoot and people might get hurt and you didn't care b/c of the almighty buck until they did...(and to think, involuntary manslaughter and/or the lower negligent homicide are both much lower standards, so I don't even need to prove this much)...

I'd bring charges on Alec and the assistant director, since both handled the weapon in the negligent or reckless (depending on your view) chain that did end in disaster...

EDIT TO ADD: Seems New Mexico combos negligent homicide into its Involuntary Manslaughter laws, so if texting while driving and killing someone is Involuntary Manslaughter (which is their example), this one should also be an easy call...

"30-2-3. Manslaughter.

Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice.

A. Voluntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed upon a sudden quarrel or in the heat of passion.

Whoever commits voluntary manslaughter is guilty of a third degree felony resulting in the death of a human being.

B. Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection.

Whoever commits involuntary manslaughter is guilty of a fourth degree felony."

 

[Sinder]

I'm sorry, but those of you who think he should have checked the gun are wrong. If Alec should have checked the gun (to be safe) then every actor who drives a car should have to inspect it. Every actor who has to get in the water should take a drowning safety course and know CPR. There are people on the movie sets who's jobs are to make sure those things are safe. The actors are there to act, not as safety experts.

Good grief. I use ladders daily at work, and recently received a notice on ladder safety. They didn't teach me how to take it apart to make sure it is in good, safe condition before I use it. I just had work done on my car. I didn't go over it to make sure the work was correct. People were paid to do that.

Not expecting actors to be safety experts but if using a firearm is part of their job then they definitely should be required to know how to use it responsibly. As many people like to point out a gun’s purpose is to kill. That’s why we have people fighting for all kinds of laws about them. How many laws are on the books about the ladders you use?
Maybe theater majors shouldn’t be allowed to “play” with guns if they aren’t smart enough to know to make sure its safe themselves before pointing it and pulling the trigger. People die when people are irresponsible with their firearms.

 

[Pink Partridge]

I don't blame Alec for what happened. I feel very sorry for him. I imagine he is beyond distraught. He isn't the nicest person and, quite frankly, I don't like him. But I absolutely feel terrible for him.

On a different note, his wife Hillary/ Hilaria has such strong narcissistic tendencies. This is going to be very difficult for her to refrain from posting pictures of herself on Instagram, in order to respect the situation with Alec. She needs to pose in her bra and nothing will stop her.

I give her one week, and she will be back like nothing happened. I believe this will be the end of the line for Alec and Hillary. Just a TMZ type prediction.

 

[AndreaA]

I'm sorry, but those of you who think he should have checked the gun are wrong. If Alec should have checked the gun (to be safe) then every actor who drives a car should have to inspect it. Every actor who has to get in the water should take a drowning safety course and know CPR. There are people on the movie sets who's jobs are to make sure those things are safe. The actors are there to act, not as safety experts.

Good grief. I use ladders daily at work, and recently received a notice on ladder safety. They didn't teach me how to take it apart to make sure it is in good, safe condition before I use it. I just had work done on my car. I didn't go over it to make sure the work was correct. People were paid to do that.

When’s the last time you used your car or ladder to attempt to injure or kill someone ELSE? Guns are different; they just are, and I say that as a gun owner. Legally, yeah, you’re probably right that Baldwin can’t be held criminally responsible because someone else was PROBABLY supposed to check the gun.

However, hearing about all the troubles on the set, who knows if that person was even there? At what point would it have become HIS responsibility to check? In any event, morally, ethically, it was his responsibility to ensure that he wasn’t doing something that could POSSIBLY injure or kill another person. Even if he wasn’t one of the producers, he knew all the troubles they were having. Hell, half the crew had walked off the set half an hour before! They’d had prop gun misfires already!! He should have been checking and double-checking that gun, ESPECIALLY if he knew he was going to be aiming for the camera and not just off into the distance.

 

[Princessclab]

I'm sorry, but those of you who think he should have checked the gun are wrong. If Alec should have checked the gun (to be safe) then every actor who drives a car should have to inspect it. Every actor who has to get in the water should take a drowning safety course and know CPR. There are people on the movie sets who's jobs are to make sure those things are safe. The actors are there to act, not as safety experts.

Good grief. I use ladders daily at work, and recently received a notice on ladder safety. They didn't teach me how to take it apart to make sure it is in good, safe condition before I use it. I just had work done on my car. I didn't go over it to make sure the work was correct. People were paid to do that.

IMO here, you are comparing apples to oranges. They all have a potential to do harm but lots of things we deal with everyday can. There is also a sense of personal responsibility with them.

None of the examples you gave are made to intentionally hurt/kill someone.
A gun is designed for that purpose so extra safety, including personal responsibility is essential. I am not alone in this belief.
We have all dealt with people who are paid to do a job and they failed; usually people don't die because of it.

 

[georgina]

First - he was **A** producer. But he may have just signed up for that to get publicity. The production actually lists 6 different producers, and I'd gather that each one would have a different role. I don't know how much Alec Baldwin micromanages any production.

But hearing that there was any real ammunition on set just seems bizarre. While the prop crew seems to have walked off the set, the armorer was still there and should have made sure that there wasn't any real ammunition in the guns. There have been so many reports by film armorers saying that they wouldn't allow any real ammo anywhere near a set.

That's the part I don't get either - why was live ammunition there at all?

 

[dvcgirl67]

It seems that there's a lot of "it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy" element to this story. Certainly not just here.....there's absolute glee on twitter from some over the fact that it was Baldwin that fired the gun. What's sad in those cases is that the woman who was killed seems like an afterthought.

In the end, I don't think that Baldwin will be criminally charged. Someone else...the armorer....the AD....maybe. It was the AD who yelled "cold gun!" before he handed it to Baldwin. That seems to be the way movie sets work, as all work environments do. There are people responsible for certain tasks, even in more dangerous working environments. Baldwin was told he had a "cold gun", which I believe means a gun that had absolutely nothing in the chambers. He didn't have a "cold gun", and it ended it disaster. But I will tell you that I was on a jury, the minute I hear testimony that the actor was handed a gun and then "cold gun" was uttered....I'm not going to find him guilty.

 

[Dead2009]

https://nypost.com/2021/10/22/alec-baldwin-didnt-know-weapon-contained-live-round-warrant/amp/
Well, I called that

 

[Carol_]

It’s possible that the gun met the movie-set definition of unloaded but something not meeting the real world definition of a bullet came out of the gun and killed a woman. (We won’t know until the investigation is complete.)

 

[Ms.Minnie]

Baldwin also supposedly sent a text or tweet a few years ago about a police shooting, saying "I wonder how it feels to wrongfully kill someone."

He's apparently taking a beating on social media over that one.

His words have come back to bite him.

 

[VandVsmama]

I'm sorry, but those of you who think he should have checked the gun are wrong. If Alec should have checked the gun (to be safe) then every actor who drives a car should have to inspect it.

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've read in a long time. I totally disagree. Don't ever handle a firearm because if you follow your own advice, you could seriously injure or kill someone on accident.