Airtran Travelers beware

[lilstint]

This may be sour grapes on my part, but I have had it with Airscam. I bought 4 tix out of Buffalo for Feb 17. We had a direct flight into MCO arriving at 1:30. Great I thought, because we would still have time to get into a park, eat, catch the fireworks, whatever. Not so fast. I get an email saying my flight has been changed. I now arrive in MCO at 5:30. This would basically ruin my plans for the entire day so I call Airscam to complain and of course I get the runaround about the disclaimer on price change, time change, etc, etc. So now, at my inconvienance, I get a flight the night before leaving at 7:55pm and arriving at midnight. I couldnt leave earlier because I am a teacher and I cant take a day off travel so now im stuck getting in a day early where I have to fork out hotel fare for an extra night, or lose reservations and a day on park tickets that I have already bought. I know I can add no expiration but that will not be an option. This is the only airline I have ever had this problem with and it has happened 3 other times. I tired of this. You plan a vacation for over a year in many case and rely on these people to get you there on time and now this. I hope other people who have been in this prediciment will write to Airscam and complain as I did. Maybe they will stop this practice of booking aniticpated flights and book flights that actually leave when advertised. Flame me if you want, but when you can only travel at certain times of the year, you want to get as much out of it as you can. Has anyone else had this problem?

As an avid Southwest fan I just had to join in on this one.

The OP is flying out of Buffalo on Feb 17th. which here in upstate NY is "President's Week" I clicked onto the SWA website 5 seconds after the schedule opened aince we also travel that week and I never so so much red in my life. There was NOTHING available for the Fri, Sat,Sun before or AFTER presidents week for anything but the highest "refundable anytime" fares! They were NEVER offered. R/T flying weekend to weekend for that week was $445.80!

I checked Airtran out of Newburgh when their schedule opened and the fare was $69.00 one way for the nonstops!

Now, I love SWA but money is money and those prices were ridiculous. I found lower prices on United. I don't know what fares the OP paid but maybe this info will ease the rescheduling inconvienience.

C'mon Southwest give us President's Week travelers a break!

 

[dis-happy]

Yes...im looking for more...overbooking flights, changing schedules...its all crap. Do hotels overbook and then toss you out after you have made a reservation? Do they tell you "oh im sorry, you cant arrive on the day you reserved, you'll have to come on a different day" NO they dont, because you've booked their service for a certain time. However, hotels dont get gov't bailouts and dont get away with making peoples vacation plans an inconvience so they wouldnt even think of pulling these shenanagans(sp). Airlines hold you at bay wondering if you can get to your destiny when you want to get there. You are at their mercy. I do understand weather delays and all that as others have mentioned. It is the point of the matter that when you book a vacation, time is precious. Most of us work for a living and take time off of work to go on vacation and dont need to be jerked around by airlines. I already get hosed on airfare at the times that I can travel and from the city I depart and I dont need to get it again by schedule changes. You search for the product at the best price and comparative shop so that you get the best deal. Well, i got that when I booked and now I dont have it. When you sign a mortagaeto build a house, you dont get something totally different then what you and the contractor agreed on. You get what you bought. Its a simple concept that these airline people have never figured out. Thats why they are always in trouble asking for gov't help, which in turn is OUR MONEY!!! So lecture me all you want, but you actually own part of some of these airlines and you get nothing but hassles in return. Soooo...again, yes I am looking for more than an apology.

This is comical. Sounds like the OP should get in his car and drive to WDW. Leave when you want, arrive when you want (barring traffic on I-95) and have total control.

And yes, hotels do overbook and do turn people away or if you're lucky, find you a room at another hotel.

And hope you don't need a rental car when you arrive....they can be overbooked as well. That reminds me of one of the great Seinfeld episodes.

Food for thought for the OP: you are much more likely to get what you want from Airtran on the day you fly if you are nice, not ranting. Plus, your family is more likely to enjoy the trip and isn't that what it's all about?

 

[Lewisc]

Why do you continue to post statistics that have nothing to do with the OPs point? Do you think we're stupid? Are you confusing with the difference between a schedule change and a canceled flight?

OP understands Airtran followed obeyed the rules and they won't be getting any compensation. By my definition that amounts to venting.

I understand their frustration but I don't understand why you persist in misrepresenting statistics.

Lewis, you were the one who suggested that the OP was not seeking anything other than to vent. For those that are interested in airline travel statistics here is the website: http://www.transtats.bts.gov/HomeDrillChart.asp

 

[Geoff_M]

Your statistics talk about flights that are canceled. All airlines have weather and mechanical cancellations.

If you go and drill down into the stats, I think you'll find that they include more than just ordinary weather and mechanical delays. Exhibit A is the sharp spike in 2001 cancellations shown i the data.

I don't doubt that AirTran jockeys their schedule around some when you book your tickets far in advance (just like most other airlines), and I do believe that SWA does it much less so (but it's a lot easier to do when you only book a few of months out at a time). I've flown SWA before and don't have a problem with them. As for AirTran, I've booked them for this June/July based on the fact that I got non-stop flights at a price that matches SWA's cheapest price for the same route (through May 10). I won't be surprised if AirTran moves the flight around a bit between now and June... but it ain't gonna ruin my day.

 

[MemoryMakers2669]

This is why I don't care for Airtran. Every single flight I have booked with them, has changed. Some have been canceled and the new one was hour earlier with a change in plane with layovers...from direct flights. I was talking with this lady from church the other night and she said that happened to her too, but she didn't know it. Got to the airport to find out that her flight had left hours before. Couldn't get out until the next day. I agree, they are a pain!

SWA rules!

 

[kaytieeldr]

Yes...im looking for more...overbooking flights, changing schedules...its all crap. Do hotels overbook and then toss you out after you have made a reservation? Do they tell you "oh im sorry, you cant arrive on the day you reserved, you'll have to come on a different day" NO they dont,

Uh, yeah, they do. Just because something hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Just for example, there's a thread on another board from someone who had a reservation at Shades of Green; about a week before her trip, and JUST before a long weekend when the SoG reservation office would be closed - she got a call saying they'd overbooked and she was being moved to Pop Century. Most times, the hotels don't even tell you until you arrive.

Airlines hold you at bay wondering if you can get to your destiny when you want to get there.

You've seen several airlines' Contract of Carriage addressing this exact issue. Airlines are obligated (except for situations beyond their control) to get you to your destination on the indicated day. AirTran was doing this for you. YOU decided that four hours later on the original day is unacceptable, and YOU chose to change your flights to the day before.

And hope you don't need a rental car when you arrive....they can be overbooked as well. That reminds me of one of the great Seinfeld episodes.

OMG! The "you're good at taking the reservation; you're just not good at KEEPING the reservation" scene!

 

[kevw67]

Okay....listen.. when you hold a room with a credit card, you are entitled to a room for the said time. Now maybe in the World of Magic and Happiness some people have been moved to a different hotel, but when I have been on the road and reserved a room for an overnight with my credit card, I have never been told, "sorry you out of luck we overbooked and you'll have sleep in your car at the Wal-mart down the road." And as far as your Shades of Green example, did they not get a room for the time period they wanted? According to you they did, just a different hotel. Now if I had been offered a different airline at the same time, your point might be more relevent. But the original point I am making is that airlines are not held accountable to the inconvienences that THEY cause, not the ones cause by weather delays. A schedule change of an hour or less is one thing. That has happened to me on other airlines. Usually it is minutes, but this airline consistantly is way off. While I was in orlando last year, airtran switched my flight leaving to an hour and a half earlier WITH NO NOTIFICATION!!!!! we got there with a few minutes to spare or we would have been stuck. And no,there was no email when I got home that announced the change. Again, it is crap and I stand by my accusations.

 

[Lewisc]

Hotels overbook, guests get walked. Airlines overbook, most of the time they have enough "no shows" and it doesn't matter. Airlines look for volunteers and then have a procedure to decide who gets "bumped" when they have more passengers than seats. Neither example is relevent to your situation.

SW waits to release their schedule until it's final. Other airlines book, a year in advance, against a projected schedule. Passengers have an option of booking early, and grabbing the fare they want, or waiting until the schedule is close to final and running the risk of paying more. You got the fare you wanted. Another poster in this thread said SW never had great fares around President's week. Those passengers got the flight times they reserved but didn't get a great fare. Airtran wasn't wrong your expectation was not realistic. Locking in a schedule a year in advance isn't going to happen.

I'll agree Airtran should have notified you of a schedule change. Unfortuantely it's up to us to confirm our reservations.

LISTEN you got a great fare during a holiday week. You can't "have it all". An airline that has to book deeply discounted fares during holiday weeks can't afford not to tweak their schedule.

You have enough experience to know the drill. Take your chances of paying more with SW or understand booking a year in advance means you're only reserving a fare and a date and not much more.

You want the airlines to be "accountable"? The solution will be to open the schedule closer to the travel date or to only offer full fare tickets until the schedule is final. The fare you paid doesn't really give the airline enough "margin" to pay any compensation.

Okay....listen.. when you hold a room with a credit card, you are entitled to a room for the said time. Now maybe in the World of Magic and Happiness some people have been moved to a different hotel, but when I have been on the road and reserved a room for an overnight with my credit card, I have never been told, "sorry you out of luck we overbooked and you'll have sleep in your car at the Wal-mart down the road." And as far as your Shades of Green example, did they not get a room for the time period they wanted? According to you they did, just a different hotel. Now if I had been offered a different airline at the same time, your point might be more relevent. But the original point I am making is that airlines are not held accountable to the inconvienences that THEY cause, not the ones cause by weather delays. A schedule change of an hour or less is one thing. That has happened to me on other airlines. Usually it is minutes, but this airline consistantly is way off. While I was in orlando last year, airtran switched my flight leaving to an hour and a half earlier WITH NO NOTIFICATION!!!!! we got there with a few minutes to spare or we would have been stuck. And no,there was no email when I got home that announced the change. Again, it is crap and I stand by my accusations.

 

[kevw67]

Why is unrealistic to expect airlines to have a set flight schedule so far out? subways run on schedule for months on end with few changes. Bus routes run on schedule with few changes. Same thing except on a larger scale with airlines. They do this becasue they are allowed to get away with it and passive souls accept it as part of the norm. I make a little noise and Im wrong? Do you agree on a price of a car and then pick it up two days later and get a different quote from the dealer? NO...you agreed on a price, signed the contract and thats it. Yes, I got a good price because it was at the time I wanted. Well, guess what, its not at the time I wanted anymore. I would have looked elsewhere for the time I wanted if Airtran didnt offer that time,. but they did and now im stuck. That is the crux of the matter. I would have flown with someone else for more at the time I wanted, but why pay a higher price when the Airtran had the best price at that time? Should I pay a fare double airtran under the assumption that airtran will cahange the tiems? No. Now, I could get royally screwed because it is so late or Im stuck with Airtran and what they offer. Is this going to ruin my vacation, no. Am I bitter, no. Am I upset, yes. Is it going to change anything, probably not, I realize that. But, things dont get changed unless some noise is made and made uncomfortable to those in charge by consumers who wont stand for being jerked around.

 

[Brian Noble]

If you can find an airline that books flights a year in advance, but never changes times, be sure to book with them from now on, and your troubles are over.

(Hint: I don't think one exists.)

 

[Lewisc]

You don't generally agree on the price of a car and then pick it up a year later. Your "contract" with the airline is the contract of carriage. It gives the airline the right to change the schedule.

Did airtran refuse a request for a cash refund? Most airlines will give a cash refund if the schedule change is long enough. We "demand" deeply discounted fares. Airlines can't afford to run flights that aren't generally full. They have to adjust their schedule to meet demand.

The solution would be to either open up the schedule a few months before the flight or to only open it up for full fare reservations until a few months out. You're never going to see deeply discounted fares a year out if the schedule has to be guaranteed.

Some passengers wait and book SW. The fares aren't always the lowest but SW gives a full credit if you make a change and they don't open up their schedule until it's final. Some passengers like to lock in a great fare others prefer to wait and "lock in" the flight. Yes, it may cost double or even more.

Why is unrealistic to expect airlines to have a set flight schedule so far out? subways run on schedule for months on end with few changes. Bus routes run on schedule with few changes. Same thing except on a larger scale with airlines. They do this becasue they are allowed to get away with it and passive souls accept it as part of the norm. I make a little noise and Im wrong? Do you agree on a price of a car and then pick it up two days later and get a different quote from the dealer? NO...you agreed on a price, signed the contract and thats it. Yes, I got a good price because it was at the time I wanted. Well, guess what, its not at the time I wanted anymore. I would have looked elsewhere for the time I wanted if Airtran didnt offer that time,. but they did and now im stuck. That is the crux of the matter. I would have flown with someone else for more at the time I wanted, but why pay a higher price when the Airtran had the best price at that time? Should I pay a fare double airtran under the assumption that airtran will cahange the tiems? No. Now, I could get royally screwed because it is so late or Im stuck with Airtran and what they offer. Is this going to ruin my vacation, no. Am I bitter, no. Am I upset, yes. Is it going to change anything, probably not, I realize that. But, things dont get changed unless some noise is made and made uncomfortable to those in charge by consumers who wont stand for being jerked around.

 

[scammermom]

kevw67, I so get your argument. I just call it poor customer service.

Airline customers just say "oh well, that's the way that it is" and put up with the airlines changing schedules. Another reason I do fly Southwest. They put out a schedule that they mostly stick to. They may change because of weather or mechanical problems. It is usually the exception and not the rule as in most airlines seem to do.

I guess we both are living in a fantasy world where people do what they say they are going to do. I have been ridiculed on this board for this same opinion as you are seeing. So I just don't bother anymore.

 

[kevw67]

You don't generally agree on the price of a car and then pick it up a year later. Your "contract" with the airline is the contract of carriage. It gives the airline the right to change the schedule.

Did airtran refuse a request for a cash refund? Most airlines will give a cash refund if the schedule change is long enough. We "demand" deeply discounted fares. Airlines can't afford to run flights that aren't generally full. They have to adjust their schedule to meet demand.

The solution would be to either open up the schedule a few months before the flight or to only open it up for full fare reservations until a few months out. You're never going to see deeply discounted fares a year out if the schedule has to be guaranteed.

Some passengers wait and book SW. The fares aren't always the lowest but SW gives a full credit if you make a change and they don't open up their schedule until it's final. Some passengers like to lock in a great fare others prefer to wait and "lock in" the flight. Yes, it may cost double or even more.

A) You agree on a price for a car yet to be made and at the time of order it is firm...you may not get your car for months but the price stands.

B)No airtran did not refuse a refund, but as I stated it is take their offer or get screwed into a higher price as I stated earlier. Therefore, going full circle here, I am at their mercy.

 

[Lewisc]

You have a contract for a car a year from now. There is a good chance the price is subject to adjustment. but you're still missing the point. Your contract with Airtran, the CoC gives Airtran the right to make schedule changes. The price stands but the schedule is subject to change.

You are "on their mercy", that's the price you pay for booking that early in advance. You got the price you wanted. Would have been willing to pay more than double? Airlines can't afford to give you the service you want for the price you were willing to pay.

There is a reason why a lot of posters wait and book SW. Price isn't the only reason. I just re-read your OP. Your original reservation had an afternoon arrival and the flight Airtran wanted to put you on also had an afternoon arrival. I wouldn't be happy but you can either accept a 4 hour change or pay.

A) You agree on a price for a car yet to be made and at the time of order it is firm...you may not get your car for months but the price stands.

B)No airtran did not refuse a refund, but as I stated it is take their offer or get screwed into a higher price as I stated earlier. Therefore, going full circle here, I am at their mercy.

 

[kevw67]

You are missing the point...I understand the fine print...my point is that it is wrong! The crap they airlines pull is wrong! Do you get my point? I find it amusing that people who know all the answers and are satisfied with being treated that way. We, as consumers, pay for a service or product. When we get a crappy product, we complain. When we get crappy service we complain. Why should airlines be off limits to complaints and being held to accountability? The fine print allows them to switch your flight....I get that. Ive never not understood that. Understanding it and agreeing with it are two different things.

 

[calgarygary]

Removed post

 

[Lewisc]

edited to say although calgarygary is 100% wrong with his comments regarding SW his post prior to this is 100% correct. Passengers who book a year have no reason to complain about minor schedule changes. The original flight arrived in the afternoon and the new flight arrives in the afternoon. Both flights land after lunch time and before dinner time.

SW doesn't do anything magic, they don't accept reservations until their schedule is final. That's what all airlines will wind up doing if passengers become entitled to compensation.

I thought the OP was looking to vent, you thought he was looking for compensation. Unfortunately I think we're both wrong. I think he's fighting "windmills" looking for a policy change that will never happen. I suspect most passengers would gladly accept a 4 hour schedule change in exchange for being able to book a holiday weekend, with a good fare, almost a year in advance.

You are missing the point...I understand the fine print...my point is that it is wrong! The crap they airlines pull is wrong! Do you get my point? I find it amusing that people who know all the answers and are satisfied with being treated that way. We, as consumers, pay for a service or product. When we get a crappy product, we complain. When we get crappy service we complain. Why should airlines be off limits to complaints and being held to accountability? The fine print allows them to switch your flight....I get that. Ive never not understood that. Understanding it and agreeing with it are two different things.

Most of us aren't willing to accept the solution. Much higher fares. Losing the ability to book (lock in a price) almost a year in advance. SW rarely has schedule changes but a poster in this thread wasn't happy they didn't offer deeply discounted fares during a holiday week.

We get a "crappy product", actually "crappy service" beause that's all we're willing to pay for.

Book with SW and you'll rarely have a schedule change. Wait to book a few months before your flight and you probably won't have a schedule change. You'll pay more but that's your choice.

Bill Owen answered this question in the SW blog
http://www.blogsouthwest.com/

However, one question we do get asked repeatedly is why Southwest doesn’t allow Customers to make reservations further in advance. I can easily (and happily) de-mystify that one! It really boils down to one, very simple reason: we don’t like to confirm a reservation to a Customer, and then have to change their schedule.

He goes on the give the reasons why airlines have to change their schedules. SW prefers to wait until their schedule is firm. Other airlines want to accomodate customers that want to make a reservation and confirm a price earlier.

 

[kevw67]

I will check ourt the SW blog

 

[home brewer]

I just had a big schedule change on US Air to Las Vegas. They apologized and offered a full refund. They told me that since it was a schedule change that I was entitled to the refund if I couldn't find suitable flights on US Air.

I'm now on Southwest for about the same price.

Kip

 

[dis-happy]

This is why I don't care for Airtran. Every single flight I have booked with them, has changed. Some have been canceled and the new one was hour earlier with a change in plane with layovers...from direct flights. I was talking with this lady from church the other night and she said that happened to her too, but she didn't know it. Got to the airport to find out that her flight had left hours before. Couldn't get out until the next day. I agree, they are a pain!

SWA rules!

Sorry that's benn your experience, but it is only one person's experience. For the past year (starting last Feb) my dh has flown weekly from Clt to BWI nonstop on Airtran. That scheduled flight has stayed exactly the same, week after week. I believe the return flight has been altered slightly, from a 7 pm to a 7:30 pm departure time. Cost, booking approx. 3 weeks out, (it varies slightly) around $75. a segment, or $150. r/t. Previous cost, prior to Airtran coming to Charlotte: $861 r/t on USAir (he spent $47,000. on USAir tickets one year, back and froth from DC to CLT). Week after week he says the service is great, and the airline staff has gone out of their way to be nice (of course it helps to be a FF).

What the op might be forgetting: Airtran is not just having your original flight sit on the tarmac for an extra 4 hours in order to inconvenience you. There are thousands of flights, thousands of planes that are being scheduled in a large orchestration. Changes have to be made according to market conditions (and/or equipment changes) or no airline is going to stay in business. Would you expect to be able to reserve a specific hotel room (#211) in a hotel and have them tell you exactly when housekeeping will have it ready for you a year out? And then do the same for 400 other guests at the same hotel? A logistical nightmare. Moral of the story: if you're going to book a year in advance for dirt cheap fares, don't be surprised at a slight change in the iternerary.

And really, I hope you're just in this for the argument's sake, Don Quixote, and have a good time at WDW.