Agree to Disagree! DISUnplugged Show March 22!

[roomthreeseventeen]

Heck ya! I am all for 2 hours of EMH in the mornings! That would be the best thing EVER!! I could get all of my rides in and be sipping coffee on Main Street when the masses arrive.

It's an hour and 15 minutes, and you can get on 3 rides.

 

[TiggerTrigger]

Considering there's the announcement floating around about paid early morning entry, I don't think morning EMH is safe either. I know none of this has happened and I hate to sound all doom and gloom, but if enough families of 4 are willing to drop $600 for evening hours and $236 for mornings, even though they say it's not impacting EMH, I can't see how it wouldn't at some point. Let's say it's limited to 1000 people...that's an extra $836,000 per day in their pockets for just MK. If it becomes an all 4 parks thing, that kind of paid early and late access could lead to an extra $3,344,000 per day. Of course, all speculation, but it seems crazy not to consider that they're looking at it from this angle. i.e. if enough people buy into this stuff, we no longer need to "give away" EMH or standard evening hours in the parks.

 

[k5jm]

It's an hour and 15 minutes, and you can get on 3 rides.

Yep, and if Disney will do 2 hours at WDW, I can knock out 7 attractions and be sipping my coffee on Main Street.

 

[mnra]

I don't disagree with the point that Disney needs to make money, they are a business, I get it. I also hope they start taking a financial hit and that these complaints start reaching the higher ups in a hope that they make changes to counter act it.

I think they higher up ie Iger knows exactly what is happening. I don't think for a minute that they are making these changes without his knowledge. Maybe one day someone with the Disney name will come back to this company and assist in running it.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Considering there's the announcement floating around about paid early morning entry, I don't think morning EMH is safe either. I know none of this has happened and I hate to sound all doom and gloom, but if enough families of 4 are willing to drop $600 for evening hours and $236 for mornings, even though they say it's not impacting EMH, I can't see how it wouldn't at some point. Let's say it's limited to 1000 people...that's an extra $836,000 per day in their pockets for just MK. If it becomes an all 4 parks thing, that kind of paid early and late access could lead to an extra $3,344,000 per day. Of course, all speculation, but it seems crazy not to consider that they're looking at it from this angle. i.e. if enough people buy into this stuff, we no longer need to "give away" EMH or standard evening hours in the parks.

Well, while we are speculating - if we add in the rumor of the coming resort fees I have trouble seeing them take away EMH for resort guests when that is one of the things people would be paying that $15 fee for. So what I think is they have EMH for resort guests and then these paid extra hours for the days/nights that don't have EMH - this way that value for EMH is even amplified if they say you get this included when on other nights you have to pay $149 or whatever for the extra hours

I think this is currently really only relevant to MK, but as new "lands" get rolled out I could see something like this added there as well. That is, extra Pandora hours when that opens and maybe even pay for extra morning hour to ride Froway and the A&E meet and greet - and of course when Star Wars land opens

 

[amberg93]

"well, I've got mine, and too bad if you can't have that experience."

Again...I don't understand this.

I feel like the way this was worded was badly put. To me it seems like the sentiment is, "I can afford to have a fantastic experience, so I don't care about the experiences of others."

And that's a problem. It's easy not to be upset about things when you have the money to pay for extras, when you don't is when you really start to see how the experience will be changed first hand. That's the real problem, is that people don't care about the experiences of other people. That's what needs to change. Everyone should be upset when the value of the base goes down, not just the people who can't afford to have the upgrades, but the people who can as well.

 

[TiggerTrigger]

Well, while we are speculating - if we add in the rumor of the coming resort fees I have trouble seeing them take away EMH for resort guests when that is one of the things people would be paying that $15 fee for. So what I think is they have EMH for resort guests and then these paid extra hours for the days/nights that don't have EMH - this way that value for EMH is even amplified if they say you get this included when on other nights you have to pay $149 or whatever for the extra hours

I think this is currently really only relevant to MK, but as new "lands" get rolled out I could see something like this added there as well. That is, extra Pandora hours when that opens and maybe even pay for extra morning hour to ride Froway and the A&E meet and greet - and of course when Star Wars land opens

Ultimately, there's going to be a lot of wait and see and I think we'd all be happy if some of our more favorite perks or norms stayed as is without any extra charges or separate admissions. Still, I thought about the resort fee and the idea of losing EMH. Now, I personally love EMH, but there are a number of touring guides out there that advise people to avoid the parks with EMH. It made me wonder how much Disney is reading this and might use it as a justification. Like they were missing the mark with EMH with a number of their resort guests, so they're now offering these paid limited access events.

As for the resort fee, we've stayed plenty of places where one is assessed, but there's not nearly as much that you can see that should factor into that fee like you might see at WDW. So, I could see them coming back and saying that so many in the industry charge similar to greater fees for fewer resort perks, so they're just keeping up with industry norms. And in doing that, it could provide further explanation for yanking EMH or normal late hours IF they were to do something like this.

To piggy back on this, there's a WDW commercial that started airing a few months back and the first thing that jumped out to me and DH was them pointing out the complimentary transportation to the parks. As seasoned WDW visitors, that's a norm to us, but it got us thinking. In all of this potential nickel and diming, was this merely just an FYI for first time onsite visitors OR is it a sign that buses, boats and monorails could be RFID reader equipped at some point to ensure only onsite guests are using these services? Active imaginations- maybe, but could it be foreshadowing?

 

[Boski]

I think they higher up ie Iger knows exactly what is happening. I don't think for a minute that they are making these changes without his knowledge. Maybe one day someone with the Disney name will come back to this company and assist in running it.

I'm sure he knows as well. What I was saying is I hope if comes back to bite them in the *** both financially and in bad reviews so it forces them to change.

 

[k5jm]

Magic is free (minus the cost of admission)

 

[EricInPA]

This is very true, but I don't think that just because something hasn't happened yet, that means we can't discuss how we would feel if it did happen.

I'm all about discussion. However, it becomes a problem when speculation and discussion morphs into inevitable accepted fact. And that happens more quickly these days.

I feel like the way this was worded was badly put. To me it seems like the sentiment is, "I can afford to have a fantastic experience, so I don't care about the experiences of others."

And that's a problem.

If Disney raises the prices for something, and I can still afford it... and it is still worth it to me, how am I supposed to feel? Bad for people that can't anymore? That gets into some really tricky territory. I'm not saying a total lack of empathy, but I'm not going to boycott/cancel a trip in protest because some folks can't go anymore, especially when we're talking about a Disney vacation.

 

[Princess Jaz E Jaz]

welcome Andrew! I will say I think yesterday's show was definitely more argumentative (for lack of a better word) than most. I think the point Kevin was making was against the question of fairness ... you don't "have" to pay to see the parade, you can stake out a spot if you want. I agree that it isn't a great solution and would be better to not have to wait (and why I think it kinda sucks that they offered the FP+ spot and now taking it away).

I actually think Theresa had a great comment when she said "it's not that it isn't fair, it's that it's sad"

I am new as well and I see things from a different point of view. You chose what you spend your money and set the right expectations. When I see people in tours I know that cost extra and I didn't chose to buy that. I'm not hurt by that. I think that if a family saves they are going to get what they pay for. I don't have kids and will not have kids so having to have a conversation about not being able to afford is something I don't have to worry about. Not everyone can do or afford all the things Disney has to offer but if save and decide what you want and have the expectations set this is not a problem.

 

[pontikes67]

Okay, it appears pay to play is coming, so now, it's all about MATH and Disney.

$65 for 1 hour 15 minutes of early access and what seems to be a decent breakfast. For a family of 4 - $260 plus my normal park ticket or Breakfast at CP for $122.00 plus my park ticket and then riding like normal or just be at RD and tour early on an EMH for $0 plus my park ticket.

I guess I have options, right...

 

[amberg93]

If Disney raises the prices for something, and I can still afford it... and it is still worth it to me, how am I supposed to feel? Bad for people that can't anymore? That gets into some really tricky territory. I'm not saying a total lack of empathy, but I'm not going to boycott/cancel a trip in protest because some folks can't go anymore, especially when we're talking about a Disney vacation.

I'm really surprised, actually, that more people don't feel bad about this. Feel bad for the first time people who saved and saved to try and get it only to be hit by cost increases and now have to figure out where to cut an already tight budget while still trying to give their kids a dream vacation for once. Feel bad for those counting on that parade fastpass because they don't have the time or ability to stand on a curb to get that perfect spot but know their little one would adore the parade and now have to try and figure out how to balance that when they don't have the money for any add-ons.

No one is saying you have to boycott or cancel a trip. I'm not boycotting and although I cancelled, I know I'll make another trip. What I'm saying is that when the value of a base ticket goes down, everyone should be upset and everyone should think about what it'll do for those once in a lifetime visitors. But I guess that's idealistic. So, if you don't care about what happens to those people, think about what you're now being upcharged for and why your dollar doesn't go too far anymore.

 

[SorcererHeidi]

To piggy back on this, there's a WDW commercial that started airing a few months back and the first thing that jumped out to me and DH was them pointing out the complimentary transportation to the parks. As seasoned WDW visitors, that's a norm to us, but it got us thinking. In all of this potential nickel and diming, was this merely just an FYI for first time onsite visitors OR is it a sign that buses, boats and monorails could be RFID reader equipped at some point to ensure only onsite guests are using these services? Active imaginations- maybe, but could it be foreshadowing?

Funny you should mention that.....the first time I saw the commercial, I said to myself "Hmmmmmm" and shelved it away in the back (and dusty) corners of my mind.

 

[DisneyKevin]

I feel like the way this was worded was badly put. To me it seems like the sentiment is, "I can afford to have a fantastic experience, so I don't care about the experiences of others."

And that's a problem. It's easy not to be upset about things when you have the money to pay for extras, when you don't is when you really start to see how the experience will be changed first hand. That's the real problem, is that people don't care about the experiences of other people. That's what needs to change. Everyone should be upset when the value of the base goes down, not just the people who can't afford to have the upgrades, but the people who can as well.

I'm really surprised, actually, that more people don't feel bad about this. Feel bad for the first time people who saved and saved to try and get it only to be hit by cost increases and now have to figure out where to cut an already tight budget while still trying to give their kids a dream vacation for once. Feel bad for those counting on that parade fastpass because they don't have the time or ability to stand on a curb to get that perfect spot but know their little one would adore the parade and now have to try and figure out how to balance that when they don't have the money for any add-ons.

No one is saying you have to boycott or cancel a trip. I'm not boycotting and although I cancelled, I know I'll make another trip. What I'm saying is that when the value of a base ticket goes down, everyone should be upset and everyone should think about what it'll do for those once in a lifetime visitors. But I guess that's idealistic. So, if you don't care about what happens to those people, think about what you're now being upcharged for and why your dollar doesn't go too far anymore.

For approximately 40 odd years, people found places to sit and watch the parade / fireworks without the benefit of fast passes. Parade / Fireworks fast passes were relatively new and now they are gone.

I have never had a parade fastness or paid for a seat (I have had special seating as part of an ABD trip) and it has never stopped me from seeing a parade.

For that mythical family that can't afford to buy parade seats and / or can't or won't scope out a seat on a curb....do what thousands and thousands of other visitors do. Find the best viewing area when the parade starts or do something else.

If your mythical family's vacation is ruined because they can not have the exact seat they want to watch the parade moments prior to the start of the parade, they are in for a MUCH ruder awakening in all parts of Disney World.

There are only so many PERFECT seats and people pay for them with money or time.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I feel like the way this was worded was badly put. To me it seems like the sentiment is, "I can afford to have a fantastic experience, so I don't care about the experiences of others."

And that's a problem. It's easy not to be upset about things when you have the money to pay for extras, when you don't is when you really start to see how the experience will be changed first hand. That's the real problem, is that people don't care about the experiences of other people. That's what needs to change. Everyone should be upset when the value of the base goes down, not just the people who can't afford to have the upgrades, but the people who can as well.

I'm really surprised, actually, that more people don't feel bad about this. Feel bad for the first time people who saved and saved to try and get it only to be hit by cost increases and now have to figure out where to cut an already tight budget while still trying to give their kids a dream vacation for once. Feel bad for those counting on that parade fastpass because they don't have the time or ability to stand on a curb to get that perfect spot but know their little one would adore the parade and now have to try and figure out how to balance that when they don't have the money for any add-ons.

No one is saying you have to boycott or cancel a trip. I'm not boycotting and although I cancelled, I know I'll make another trip. What I'm saying is that when the value of a base ticket goes down, everyone should be upset and everyone should think about what it'll do for those once in a lifetime visitors. But I guess that's idealistic. So, if you don't care about what happens to those people, think about what you're now being upcharged for and why your dollar doesn't go too far anymore.

I think you raise some really good points - and the idea of consideration for others is something in general has perhaps gone downhill at WDW and in the world in general

I think the question though is do these additional experiences really bring down the value of the base? I know you mentioned one good example of the FP+ for parades/fireworks going away (though, there hasn't been anything official about this being replaced with a pap-per-view option - others thinking it is just cost cutting to not have to have a CM stationed there) and I think the extra morning pay hours could negatively impact rope drop for others.

If these truly are and stay as "extras" that really don't negatively impact the base, then they can be viewed just like other extras in the past (some people can afford to stay on site and some can't ... some people can afford character meals and some can't). But I agree with you 1,000% that if they really do negatively impact the base that is a huge issue (if EMH go away, if they no longer let you take pictures with your own camera of meet and greets but force you to buy photopass, etc.) - where you have to buy the "extras" just to have the type of Disney experience you had in the past

 

[TiggerTrigger]

If Disney raises the prices for something, and I can still afford it... and it is still worth it to me, how am I supposed to feel? Bad for people that can't anymore? That gets into some really tricky territory. I'm not saying a total lack of empathy, but I'm not going to boycott/cancel a trip in protest because some folks can't go anymore, especially when we're talking about a Disney vacation.

To me, it's not so much a matter of "if I can still afford it." While there's no confirmation of EMH and evening hours going away completely, let's say all of this is the sign of things to come. To me, I have a hard time swallowing the idea of an extra $219 a day (even if I can afford it) to get early morning and evening access to the parks, when all of this was previously something included in general admission. Obviously, Disney is a business and if the market is there, the certainly have the authority to change things up and charge for this, but is it really worth it? And that's a personal question for every guest to answer. If you or any other guest thinks it is, that's your choice. For me and others, it would be my call to give Disney a rest. It doesn't mean taking cheap vacations...just either more trips or visiting pricey destinations where I feel like I'm getting my $s. worth.

 

[pontikes67]

For approximately 40 odd years, people found places to sit and watch the parade / fireworks without the benefit of fast passes. Parade / Fireworks fast passes were relatively new and now they are gone.

I have never had a parade fastness or paid for a seat (I have had special seating as part of an ABD trip) and it has never stopped me from seeing a parade.

For that mythical family that can't afford to buy parade seats and / or can't or won't scope out a seat on a curb....do what thousands and thousands of other visitors do. Find the best viewing area when the parade starts or do something else.

If your mythical family's vacation is ruined because they can not have the exact seat they want to watch the parade moments prior to the start of the parade, they are in for a MUCH ruder awakening in all parts of Disney World.

There are only so many PERFECT seats and people pay for them with money or time.

The more we discuss this (and honestly, I just like kicking it around) the more I see your point. I was just doing the "math" of, as @WebmasterMike has deemed it, "EEEMH" and it's about $140 more for me to do that vs. doing what we've done typically (Breakfast at CP and then get the internal RD by 8:45). I think for the 'casual' visitor this will mean nothing, they already think Disney is overpriced but an obligatory family trip. For the 1% of Super Disney Fans, it's fodder. I really just wanted to start a thread I thought might make "The Daily Fix" Trending on DISBoards shout out. Dammit if that didn't come to fruition!

 

[TiggerTrigger]

Funny you should mention that.....the first time I saw the commercial, I said to myself "Hmmmmmm" and shelved it away in the back (and dusty) corners of my mind.

I mean, it could very likely be for the person who never has stayed onsite and never realized that it's all included, but it certainly sticks out for people more in the know...like, what are you getting at???

 

[SorcererHeidi]

I mean, it could very likely be for the person who never has stayed onsite and never realized that it's all included, but it certainly sticks out for people more in the know...like, what are you getting at???

Yep, 'zactly......GMTA (Great Minds Think Alike)