Adding-on a small contract in order to get the member perks.

[dismedvc]

Yep, it would have been a way to lower risk on that side. For some people the value of a 25 point contract is "pbbht - so what if it gets lost in a divorce" - for others its a huge deal.

For us, the value of 25 points would not be a total "pbbht", but 25 points would certainly be more of a "pbbht" to us than if something happened to the all of the points on all of our contracts. The more responses we get the more I hope we are right in trusting our children by putting them on all the contracts.

 

[CarolAnnC]

We have been members since 1999, when our children were under 18. Our oldest child went with her collage friends this past April on our points, and had to pay for valet parking at our home resort and did not get dining discounts. That made me mad. We have never “rented” out our points, but have given a few nights to my sister, who also had to pay for the valet parking and did not get any member benefits. That also made me mad. However, unless I am wrong, I think any time a member stays on points, even if those are rented points, as long as the reservation is made in their name they get the member benefits. Personally, I think if you do not own the 100 plus point member minimum, you should not ever get the member benefits, and even if you have that minimum, you should not get the member benefits for “rented” days.

Like I said, I hope you are right, but I think as long as you show your member card and matching drivers license at check in you will get all the member benefits for that stay.

P.S. I am glad that over half the responses so far came from the moderators. I was going to PM a moderator to see if this topic was appropriate before posting it, but since I did not have 10 previous posts I could not do that. I could have posted a few “sounds like you are having fun” posts to up my post count, but that seemed dumb.

I believe you can PM a Moderator at any time, not after a certain post count. We also have email available as a means of communication.

Reading my last post, it came across as petty. Sorry.

But, I think you can have up to six owners, all with different addresses on one 25 point contract, and all would be entitled to full member benefits, including the annual pass discount for all family members who lived at any of those six different addresses.

Nope, they would not be entitled to the Annual Pass Discount unless their drivers licenses show the proof of address as they must be residing with you full time.

I think it's 6 per membership.

That is correct.

For us, the value of 25 points would not be a total "pbbht", but 25 points would certainly be more of a "pbbht" to us than if something happened to the all of the points on all of our contracts. The more responses we get the more I hope we are right in trusting our children by putting them on all the contracts.

I have daughters in their 20's and I do not believe it is a matter of "trusting" them, but blindly trusting any individuals who may come into their lives down the road and lay legal claim to their portion of their DVC ownership. An example would be a divorce, whereby the partner may be awarded the DVC ownership by a court.

 

[dismedvc]

Carol: Thanks for the insight, and I appologize again for my petty post. The moderators provide great value to this forum and I appreciate all of you.

Based on what you said, I assume that means you can not have a contract with multiple owners if those owners lived at different adresses.

I make that assumption beause if you could, and what you say is correct, how would DVC decide which address would get the ability to buy the reduced price annual passes for all the individuals who lived at that address. (Though it sounds like that still might be limited to six individuals)

If what you say is correct, I am now glad we are adding our children to our deeds while they still have their drivers licenses at our address, because it sounds like we would not be able to add them after they moved out.

I just wonder, however, in the future, after our two children move out, and have different addresses, will they still both be able to purchase the discounted annual passes for themseves and their other family members who live at thier two new addresses, and will we still be able to do the same at our original address? (Obviously that assumes the member discount will continue to be offered, but even if it is, it sounds like we might still be capped at a total of six discounts for the one membership)

Based on what you say, it almost seems like we should do multiple small add-ons, and then pay to have two of them re-titled, each with just one of our children on them so they could we could continue to get the discounts after they move to different addresses. That way we would all get up to the 6 discounts for all the people living at each of the three separate addresses.

I might be overthinking this, but if you do it wrong the first time, you often can not reverse it.

 

[Chuck S]

Carol: Thanks for the insight, and I appologize again for my petty post. The moderators provide great value to this forum and I appreciate all of you.

Based on what you said, I assume that means you can not have a contract with multiple owners if those owners lived at different adresses.

I make that assumption beause if you could, and what you say is correct, how would DVC decide which address would get the ability to buy the reduced price annual passes for all the individuals who lived at that address. (Though it sounds like that still might be limited to six individuals)

If what you say is correct, I am now glad we are adding our children to our deeds while they still have their drivers licenses at our address, because it sounds like we would not be able to add them after they moved out.

I just wonder, however, in the future, after our two children move out, and have different addresses, will they still both be able to purchase the discounted annual passes for themseves and their other family members who live at thier two new addresses, and will we still be able to do the same at our original address? (Obviously that assumes the member discount will continue to be offered, but even if it is, it sounds like we might still be capped at a total of six discounts for the one membership)

Based on what you say, it almost seems like we should do multiple small add-ons, and then pay to have two of them re-titled, each with just one of our children on them so they could we could continue to get the discounts after they move to different addresses. That way we would all get up to the 6 discounts for all the people living at each of the three separate addresses.

I might be overthinking this, but if you do it wrong the first time, you often can not reverse it.

I'm pretty sure that Member Accounting/Member Services, while allowing multiple owners on a contract, has one main contact address and phone for the membership. This would be the address to which all legal documents, dues billings, the member magazine (Disney Files), and other communications are sent. It may be that the address of record is also the address used to verify the eligibility for APs in the computer system.

 

[Tine731]

Flame suit on...

You CAN have multiple owners with multiple addresses and all will receive the "perks".

I own 2 DVC contracts. One that I own and one that I own with my mother and 2 sisters. We have different addresses. We all have membership cards with our info...I have 2 cards for my different DVC #'s...never an issue when it comes to perks.

I asked MS and my guide if there would be an issue and the answer was no...we were all considered DVC members.

 

[Caskbill]

Flame suit on...

You CAN have multiple owners with multiple addresses and all will receive the "perks".

I own 2 DVC contracts. One that I own and one that I own with my mother and 2 sisters. We have different addresses. We all have membership cards with our info...I have 2 cards for my different DVC #'s...never an issue when it comes to perks.

I asked MS and my guide if there would be an issue and the answer was no...we were all considered DVC members.

While you're all DVC members, you will get the regular DVC 'perks'. The main question though is can all of you buy AP's at the discounted price, or is only the 'legal' address members allowed to get the AP discount.

 

[dianeschlicht]

While you're all DVC members, you will get the regular DVC 'perks'. The main question though is can all of you buy AP's at the discounted price, or is only the 'legal' address members allowed to get the AP discount.

Bill, we have asked that same question many times. We do NOT have our adult children on our contract as owners, but they are on as associates. Since one has already gone through a divorce, I don't see any point in adding them as members until it's time to gift them with the memberships. That maya or may not ever happen. As it turns out, the one who is married is currently living with us, so they DO in fact have the ability to get the AP discount. They haven't taken advantage of it though, since they haven't traveled with us for more than 5 days at a time since they have been living here.

I would still like to know the anser to that question though...IS there only one 'legal' address for members allowed to get the AP discount?

 

[disneydawn6]

I have 300 pts including a 25 pt add on that I put in mine and my married adult daughter's name. This cost me $100 to quick deed it from only mine name to both our names. It automatically passed Disney since it was not sold. The 25 pts received a new member number. She does not live with me. We both received blue membership cards (I now have two cards) and now she can receive all the perks along with her husband including AP discounts. It does not matter what the address is as long as you have the blue membership card. When selling the AP they only look at the blue membership card and your drivers license. They never looked up my DVC address. I did put the small contract under her address since the big contract is under my address. This way we both receive all the news letters and mailings. It still does not matter what address it is under. Only having the blue membership card matters. When I die she will receive another 125 pts and my other daughter (who still lives with me) will receive the other 150. So all will work out in the end. If my married daughter gets divorced I will only lose the 25 pts. Both daughters are associate members on all contracts. When my second daughter moves out I will do the same for her and make a 25 pt contract for her also...... I transfer the 25 pts into my original contract each year so the pts are still together really....

 

[culli]

Ok this could be just to simplistic. If the person (like Mom or sister) normally travels with you but lives at a different address and want the AP discount.......have them get a new DL with your address, they can always go back and get it changed again. Don't turn in the other DL and is good until it expires. If you have a relative go down can't you just have your name on the ressie or would you have to actually check in?

I can see too many issues with adding others to the deed that has already been brought up.

 

[Dean]

The information in this threat is interesting. I have a few thoughts. Actually we've had this conversation before several times. There are now quite a few members who own small contracts and a number of them that own them mainly for the perks. There is also quite a group that have added family and/or friends to contracts mainly so they have access to the perks as well. Above it was said this might be within the rules but not within the spirit, I'd disagree somewhat. It is within the rules and IMO, not outside the intent. It is true that smaller contracts cost as much as larger contracts to administer but given DVD and DVC didn't make any changes when it started happening, I feel they've spoken on their intent.

If one does this and gets points transferred in, they will get ALL the perks for each stay as a member. If they are a member and rent from someone else staying on their points, they will get some of the perks but not necessarily all, this is an area you'll just have to see.. It really depends on DVC's enforcement. Worst case scenario is you could get the perks available to members at anytime. These would incldue the AP discount, dining and shopping discounts and valet parking. Of course this could change at any time as perks are not guaranteed.

As for how many, I think there has been a lot of misinformation in the past. 8 is the correct number but the questions is whether it's 8 per member, per transaction or per membership and is it 8 per UY or calendar year. My interpretation is 8 per member per calendar year though I could easily see UY as well. Also it's the address of the individual owner, not one address per contract. The member shows their Blue membership card and shows something to show their address. Here is the actual wording of the rules themselves.

WDW Admission Media available through this program may only be purchased by DVC Members for themselves and for Members of their immediate family living in their household, up to a total of eight (8) new passes or renewal passes per year.

I see this and related options as very viable alternative for some. As I said, many have done so. I contemplatd the exact approach but decided to add my daughter to all 4 of my 25 pt AKL contracts, total cost under $100. I didn't add my son even though he'd over 18 due to the negatives involved. I did contemplate adding my sister and brother but didn't for the same negatives. Everyone needs to know that if you do this the smaller contract becomes totally separate and to use other points including from the same member, you would need to transfer or do separate reservations and link them. You could do a single transfer for $37 plus postage.

They could certainly change the rules going forward. They could require a minimum purchase and/or that only contracts bought directly qualified for the perks. If they did, I would expect them to grandfather any current members. Given there's no, or almost no cost to DVC for the perks, I don't see DVC as caring about that. Their lack of action has already addressed the owners owning less than the buy in minimum. They also have total control on resales, but not necessarily transfers, because they could buy them all back if they wanted.

As usual people here are assuming that all members or potential members are using it the same as most on this baord. There are 2 groups where 25 points alone will often be more than enough. These include those local in Orlando and those visiting the area but no staying on site for most of their stay such as those with family or friends in the area and those who own other timeshares. Local members might do it for the free valet parking and other discounts, a night or two here and there or when they have visitors. Those visiting but not staying mostly or at all on property might use it to supplement with a day or two here and there plus the perks I noted above. Both groups also might use it to get a studio here and there but not even stay the night. That way they get pool hopping, access to the DDP, free park parking and access to other amenities from check in (even early) until MN the next day. BTW, I know or know of people that fit every single category I've mentioned in this thread.

 

[CarolMN]

1. Disney does not have to waive ROFR for those who want to "re-title" a contract or transfer one to a family members. They do so as a courtesy. If, in their judgment, this becomes a means to "abuse", they can just refuse the waiver.

2.Copied this from one of the FAQ on the Members' Website:

Can I use my discount to buy a Pass for someone other than myself or immediate family residing in the same household?
No. This discount is exclusive for Members and may not be transferred. This perk may be revoked in the event of abuse.

Again, Disney defines "abuse". Perhaps they would revoke the perk only for the members they believe are abusing the perk. Perhaps they would just discontinue it for all members. It's up to them - no perks are guaranteed.

FWIW, I think buying a 25 point contract & retitling it would not be worth it just to save $100 on an AP - as others have said, if one goes often enough to want/need an AP, one is almost surely a candidate for a "real" membership.

 

[Tine731]

While you're all DVC members, you will get the regular DVC 'perks'. The main question though is can all of you buy AP's at the discounted price, or is only the 'legal' address members allowed to get the AP discount.

That was my main question to MS...Can we all get the AP discount?....and the answer is yes.

 

[Dean]

1. Disney does not have to waive ROFR for those who want to "re-title" a contract or transfer one to a family members. They do so as a courtesy. If, in their judgment, this becomes a means to "abuse", they can just refuse the waiver.

2.Copied this from one of the FAQ on the Members' Website:

Can I use my discount to buy a Pass for someone other than myself or immediate family residing in the same household?
No. This discount is exclusive for Members and may not be transferred. This perk may be revoked in the event of abuse.

Again, Disney defines "abuse". Perhaps they would revoke the perk only for the members they believe are abusing the perk. Perhaps they would just discontinue it for all members. It's up to them - no perks are guaranteed.

FWIW, I think buying a 25 point contract & retitling it would not be worth it just to save $100 on an AP - as others have said, if one goes often enough to want/need an AP, one is almost surely a candidate for a "real" membership.

In that context abuse would be buying for people that didn't qualify, not maximizing the potential of the perk. They could change the perk or eliminate it at any time for everyone. And they could put in restrictions that would apply to everyone such as removing the ability to get it for distant family and restrict it to say dependents only. Actually the perk is schizophrenic anyway given that you can get it for distant family members that have the same address but not for close family that live somewhere else. IMO, this is simply asking for abuse as set up. They can't simply refuse Waiver of ROFR, they either have to excercise ROFR or waive it and for heirs, they'd be legally obligated to waive it for some situaitons.

Let me give you some examples of people who could benefit from the perks with a 25 point contract. I've already mentioned the benefits of owning if living in the area, $125 is a very small cost for many for that situaiton. Take a family of 8 who travel to Orlando for a week once a year and are not FL residents. For sake of discussion assume they go to the park for 3 of those days and have enough flexibility to get 2 years of trips off one AP. One option is to buy one AP for the person most likely to go every year and most likely to go to the parks every trip. Savings $100 on a given pass, dining and other discounts variable. Same scenario but for 2 weeks a year (3-4 weeks per AP) and you get an AP for all, savings $800 plus. Or you don't get a pass and use the other perks and a couple of days on property for $125 a year. I know of several who do this and stay a day or two weekdays before a given non DVC timeshare stay. IMO, it's well worth it for some, not for others, you'd have to look at each situation.

I think the one constant in all of these type of discussions is the undercurrent that some people seem to see harm to members where there is none. Given we're discussing perks that have essentially no cost to members and some using them in what this board would consider non tradtional uses, somehow hurts other members at all. It doesn't, for many this is simply an emoitonal feeling of wanting to have something others don't, for those, it's simply emotional and elitist.

 

[CarolAnnC]

1. Disney does not have to waive ROFR for those who want to "re-title" a contract or transfer one to a family members. They do so as a courtesy. If, in their judgment, this becomes a means to "abuse", they can just refuse the waiver.

2.Copied this from one of the FAQ on the Members' Website:

Can I use my discount to buy a Pass for someone other than myself or immediate family residing in the same household?
No. This discount is exclusive for Members and may not be transferred. This perk may be revoked in the event of abuse.

Again, Disney defines "abuse". Perhaps they would revoke the perk only for the members they believe are abusing the perk. Perhaps they would just discontinue it for all members. It's up to them - no perks are guaranteed.

FWIW, I think buying a 25 point contract & retitling it would not be worth it just to save $100 on an AP - as others have said, if one goes often enough to want/need an AP, one is almost surely a candidate for a "real" membership.

To add to what Carol said, why go to all this trouble when the AP discount, or any other perk(s) may be taken away at any time? We haven't even had the AP discount perk all that long as it is.....

In that context abuse would be buying for people that didn't qualify, not maximizing the potential of the perk. They could change the perk or eliminate it at any time for everyone. And they could put in restrictions that would apply to everyone such as removing the ability to get it for distant family and restrict it to say dependents only. Actually the perk is schizophrenic anyway given that you can get it for distant family members that have the same address but not for close family that live somewhere else. IMO, this is simply asking for abuse as set up. They can't simply refuse Waiver of ROFR, they either have to excercise ROFR or waive it and for heirs, they'd be legally obligated to waive it for some situaitons.

Let me give you some examples of people who could benefit from the perks with a 25 point contract. I've already mentioned the benefits of owning if living in the area, $125 is a very small cost for many for that situaiton. Take a family of 8 who travel to Orlando for a week once a year and are not FL residents. For sake of discussion assume they go to the park for 3 of those days and have enough flexibility to get 2 years of trips off one AP. One option is to buy one AP for the person most likely to go every year and most likely to go to the parks every trip. Savings $100 on a given pass, dining and other discounts variable. Same scenario but for 2 weeks a year (3-4 weeks per AP) and you get an AP for all, savings $800 plus. Or you don't get a pass and use the other perks and a couple of days on property for $125 a year. I know of several who do this and stay a day or two weekdays before a given non DVC timeshare stay. IMO, it's well worth it for some, not for others, you'd have to look at each situation.

I think the one constant in all of these type of discussions is the undercurrent that some people seem to see harm to members where there is none. Given we're discussing perks that have essentially no cost to members and some using them in what this board would consider non tradtional uses, somehow hurts other members at all. It doesn't, for many this is simply an emoitonal feeling of wanting to have something others don't, for those, it's simply emotional and elitist.

The only thing I disagree with you here Dean, is the part about not costing anything to members. If small contracts are sold to 6 members, different addresses, then there is the added creation, printing and postage to items such as plastic membership cards, DVC magazines such as DisneyFiles, postcards, and the numerous items that are sent out to us on a regular basis. That can greatly increase costs for just maintaining these small, multi owner accounts. I suspect the day will come when these small contract owners may find the "rules" rewritten by DVC.

 

[Dean]

To add to what Carol said, why go to all this trouble when the AP discount, or any other perk(s) may be taken away at any time? We haven't even had the AP discount perk all that long as it is.....



The only thing I disagree with you here Dean, is the part about not costing anything to members. If small contracts are sold to 6 members, different addresses, then there is the added creation, printing and postage to items such as plastic membership cards, DVC magazines such as DisneyFiles, postcards, and the numerous items that are sent out to us on a regular basis. That can greatly increase costs for just maintaining these small, multi owner accounts. I suspect the day will come when these small contract owners may find the "rules" rewritten by DVC.

As I noted, this is only a good choice for the right situation. The return for risk can be very high for some. Any perk can be taken away and many of the usage options so the real question is why should anyone buy at all as there are similar risks for each and every member.

As to cost, my reference was to the perks themselves. There's no doubt that smaller contracts cost more to administer than do large contracts. But that's also true for 150-160 point contracts just like it is for 25-50 points contracts. Those with smaller contracts do underpay their actual costs of membership and those with larger contracts overpay. The best way to even this out is likely to have a base amount of fees then an added amount per point. Something like $300 plus $4 a point rather than $5 a point. Those exact numbers would put the break even somewhere around 300 points and would raise costs on those with less and lower costs on those with larger contracts. It would ensure that those with smaller contracts of say less than 250 points, pay their fair share and likely falls under the category of careful what you wish for for those with 150-250 points or less. As I noted before, I feel DVC has already spoken on this issue by their lack of changes. They could simply ROFR every smaller contract on ROFR if they wanted. They will not go after this specific issue alone in isolation.

 

[CarolAnnC]

As I noted, this is only a good choice for the right situation. The return for risk can be very high for some. Any perk can be taken away and many of the usage options so the real question is why should anyone buy at all as there are similar risks for each and every member.

As to cost, my reference was to the perks themselves. There's no doubt that smaller contracts cost more to administer than do large contracts. But that's also true for 150-160 point contracts just like it is for 25-50 points contracts. Those with smaller contracts do underpay their actual costs of membership and those with larger contracts overpay. The best way to even this out is likely to have a base amount of fees then an added amount per point. Something like $300 plus $4 a point rather than $5 a point. Those exact numbers would put the break even somewhere around 300 points and would raise costs on those with less and lower costs on those with larger contracts. It would ensure that those with smaller contracts of say less than 250 points, pay their fair share and likely falls under the category of careful what you wish for for those with 150-250 points or less. As I noted before, I feel DVC has already spoken on this issue by their lack of changes. They could simply ROFR every smaller contract on ROFR if they wanted. They will not go after this specific issue alone in isolation.

Right and DVC has no incentive to change this since the burden of the added administration costs are borne by the DVC Members themselves. I think their impetus for changing the 25 point contracts with 6 owners for example, is the fact they they are missing the boat on 6 individual purchases rather than sharing one very small one. Anyway change never comes quickly with DVC. It seems they move slowly, for example, look how long it took them to come up with the AP discount to begin with.

 

[dismedvc]

This is going to be good.

Wow that was that prophetic.

I started this thread because our children now are old enough to travel on their own, and will probably be moving to their own addresses soon. Also, since we were doing an add-on anyway, it seemed that now was the time to make them members. The only question was whether to add them to all our contracts before we added on, or just re-title a small 25 point contract after the add-on closed. The latter would obviously reduce our risk if something like a divorce or bankruptcy happened to one of our children in the future, but I was concerned if doing that was really violating the spirit of membership.

I think I agree with Dean, even if you do not think it is right, Disney has effectively given it their blessing by the way they have acted, or more accurately failed to act on his issue.

The only strange thing is that after all this discussion; we will probably just add the children to all of our contracts.

BTW, I did confirm with our guide that once our children are added to the deeds and the membership, that in the future even if our children live at different addresses, they and all other members of their immediate family living in their household, would be eligible for the AP discount. (Up to the limit of 8 per household, yes 8 per household, assuming of course that benefit still existed at that time)

 

[Dean]

Right and DVC has no incentive to change this since the burden of the added administration costs are borne by the DVC Members themselves. I think their impetus for changing the 25 point contracts with 6 owners for example, is the fact they they are missing the boat on 6 individual purchases rather than sharing one very small one. Anyway change never comes quickly with DVC. It seems they move slowly, for example, look how long it took them to come up with the AP discount to begin with.

I don't see any way DVC would change this for a number of reasons. But given your line of thinking, someone (or group) who only owns 25 points to start is far more likely to add on that someone with more points.

 

[CarolAnnC]

I don't see any way DVC would change this for a number of reasons. But given your line of thinking, someone (or group) who only owns 25 points to start is far more likely to add on that someone with more points.

I don't see a group of 6 who buy a 25 point contract only for perks suddenly turning around and adding on more points (as a group). But, if they decide to purchase individually, why would they be far more likely to than say myself, who has added on many times over?

 

[Dean]

I don't see a group of 6 who buy a 25 point contract only for perks suddenly turning around and adding on more points (as a group). But, if they decide to purchase individually, why would they be far more likely to than say myself, who has added on many times over?

There are more reasons than just this to buy in at a small number of points. I do feel that someone who buys in as a small number is more likely to add on than one who owns a lot of points but it will vary with the individual. DVC will not get involved in looking at the individual on this or most matters, they will look at the overall situation.