Absolutely nauseating...Toddlers and Tiaras

[goofy!]

Yet, the physical injuries to competition cheer girls is an okay chance to take? .

Sure it is. Look at all those kids with special needs sporting knee braces (my daughter one of them - blew out her kneecap)

 

[FredinFL]

Those kids practice so hard they kick the crap out of themselves. Hey, at least they are color coordinated.

 

[rie'smom]

Sooooo, what you're saying is that the psychological damage done to pageant girls is so horrific that it ruins their lives forever? these are "bad parents" because they choose to do this with their daughter?

Yet, the physical injuries to competition cheer girls is an okay chance to take? the physical injuries to little gymnasts is okay too? How about the psychological damage to a young girl who wants so desperately to be a ballerina but doesn't have the right shape? or who's feet break and can't take the crushing abuse they take in the pointe shoes? Does the psychological damage equal that of a pageant girl?

Because these are deemed by you "acceptable" activities for children, all these possible problems don't count? Are you saying that EVERY pageant girl has psychological damage?

I think if the kid is having a good time (within the normal confines of an "activity"), people should just butt out and let them do the activity they like. Horrendous costumes, big hair, pushy mother or not.

Boys get hurt playing sports too. For example, my son fell out of a tree stand. His friends rushed him to the ER. The x rays fund that he had a healed vertebral fracture. Apparently, he got the injury while playing football in high school.

If we have to worry about every way our kids could get hurt, we should wrap them in bubble wrap and cotton and never let them leave home.

BTW, I have no problem with pageants if it something the kids want to do.

 

[luvsJack]

Sooooo, what you're saying is that the psychological damage done to pageant girls is so horrific that it ruins their lives forever? these are "bad parents" because they choose to do this with their daughter?

Yet, the physical injuries to competition cheer girls is an okay chance to take? the physical injuries to little gymnasts is okay too? How about the psychological damage to a young girl who wants so desperately to be a ballerina but doesn't have the right shape? or who's feet break and can't take the crushing abuse they take in the pointe shoes? Does the psychological damage equal that of a pageant girl?

Because these are deemed by you "acceptable" activities for children, all these possible problems don't count? Are you saying that EVERY pageant girl has psychological damage?

I think if the kid is having a good time (within the normal confines of an "activity"), people should just butt out and let them do the activity they like. Horrendous costumes, big hair, pushy mother or not.

IMHO, it comes down to whether the child actually wants to do this or not and what they will get out of it.

DD danced, cheered, does showchoir now and plays softball now. What she has gotten out of all of that is team work, keeping a good attitude, hard work pays off, making and keeping a commitment, and how to be a team player. My sons played baseball, took karate, played soccer and football. Many valuable life lessons are learned through sports. The "physical" danger isn't quite as prevalent as you seem to think.

Can a child learn these same lessons from pagents? Maybe. But not with some of the moms they show on this show. All they are teaching these girls is that you want to be beautiful at all costs, your only importance is your beauty, your beauty will get you what you want and always do what you mother wants you to do.

If a child gets the RIGHT lessons from doing pagents, good. But on that particular show, I don't believe they are.

 

[Razib456]

I couldn't agree with you more! I stumbled once on the program and I could not believe it. I didn't change the channel that's how shocked I was. It is incredible that we allow such things happening...

In my opinion parents are the guilty party not the organizers. They are business people. But parents that push their children to do that, to practically sell their abilities when they are just babies. Those kids grow old before their time and have no chance to a normal life.

 

[FredinFL]

IMHO, it comes down to whether the child actually wants to do this or not and what they will get out of it. ~ luvsjack

Most important thing of all.

The kids from pageants get stuff out of it too. Some of them get a lot of confidence, different things for different kids. Is it a great experience for all of them? no, but neither are any other choices great for every kid who tries them. Is it a little "me" orientated? For my kids it is, but for others it's fine. It all comes down to if the CHILD wants to do it. If they are enjoying it, it's the right thing for them.

 

[U2_rocks!]

IMHO, it comes down to whether the child actually wants to do this or not and what they will get out of it. ~ luvsjack

Most important thing of all.

The kids from pageants get stuff out of it too. Some of them get a lot of confidence, different things for different kids. Is it a great experience for all of them? no, but neither are any other choices great for every kid who tries them. Is it a little "me" orientated? For my kids it is, but for others it's fine. It all comes down to if the CHILD wants to do it. If they are enjoying it, it's the right thing for them.

You're right, I can't cry down all pageants. However, the reality TV ones like T & T are just so way over the top that I'm not sure the positives outweigh the negatives for most of those kids.

 

[princessmom29]

My daughter has Down syndrome and her cheer team has many kids with Downs on it. While the rest of the gym wears crop top uniforms, ours are identical but full top. But even then, they ride up during a routine and look like crop tops.

NOBODY wants to see our kids bellies as low tone is pretty universal to Down syndrome. It is not a pretty sight. So, we asked the gym if it was ok and we bought black camisole leotards to put under the uniforms. (The uniforms are black). Looking at the professional photos after the competition, you can see where the tops rode up to right under their bras, but you couldn't tell from the floor because of the camisoles. Not everybody did it, but those of us with kids with low tone and floppy bellies sure did

Here are our uniforms, makeup and hair. As this is a competitive team, our makeup, hair and bow are also identical to what everybody else in the gym wears.
(edited to add, our gym wears midriff tops, not crop tops. An inch lower )

I am glad that they were willing to work with you! This is the way it should be.

I also want to know what is up with the creepy head shots the pageant girls take? The eyes are so enlarged, they look like something Steven Spielberg would write about. That age is so cute in its own right, why?????

they are photoshopped os much that you cannot tell what the child originally looked like. I personally do think they are a little creepy.

Sooooo, what you're saying is that the psychological damage done to pageant girls is so horrific that it ruins their lives forever? these are "bad parents" because they choose to do this with their daughter?

Yet, the physical injuries to competition cheer girls is an okay chance to take? the physical injuries to little gymnasts is okay too? How about the psychological damage to a young girl who wants so desperately to be a ballerina but doesn't have the right shape? or who's feet break and can't take the crushing abuse they take in the pointe shoes? Does the psychological damage equal that of a pageant girl?

Because these are deemed by you "acceptable" activities for children, all these possible problems don't count? Are you saying that EVERY pageant girl has psychological damage?

I think if the kid is having a good time (within the normal confines of an "activity"), people should just butt out and let them do the activity they like. Horrendous costumes, big hair, pushy mother or not.

What happened to you to make you so anti-dance and cheer?
What i actually said is that based on what I have seen, I think that pagents do more harm than good and I choose not to do them with my DD, NOT that all pagents or pagent parents are bad. STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH! It is annoying.
There is a risk of injury in dance and cheer, as with any sport, but it is not as big a risk as you are making it out to be. If a studio has the children's safety as the number one concern and the instructors are properly trained, injury is rare. That is where the common sense of the parent comes in and doing research on a studio before placing your child there.

Our studio takes eveyone where they are and encourages them to be the best THEY can be. There is no pressure to be perfect. A child with Downs will never be a professional ballerina, but there is an 18 year old with Downs at or studio that has been dancing for 15 years and LOVES being there. She dances with 11 year olds, and probably always will, but is accepted and loved and a valuble part of the studio family. SO is every other child there. Do some studios push and exclude, yes but they are in the minority in my experience.

Yet again it is obvious that you don't know anything about dance. If dancing on pointe is "crushing abuse" the child in NOT ready for pointe and shouldn't be allowed to do it. It is not the most comfprtable thing in the world to be sure, but defintiely is not crushing abuse if the child's foot is ready, and only an irresponsible instructor would push a child to the point of a stress fracture. It takes a LOT of ignorance to get to that point, and in 30 years I have never heard of a stress fracture in the foot from pointe for anyone but a professional ballerina who pushed herself too hard.

Agian I am not aying that dance is any better or worse than pagents over all, just that from my experience pagents have a potential to be damaging, much more so than other activites becuase more emphasis is placed on the childs physical attributes. If they don't measure up they don't measure up nad there is nothing they can do to improve. They cannot work harder and get prettier.

I really don't get whay you cannot seethe difference in judging a child based on thier appearence and judging based on thier ability? I don't hate pagents, but I do have a problem with putting my child into an activity where she is judged solely on her appearence. I really do wonder what happened to you to make you hate dance so much.

 

[princessmom29]

IMHO, it comes down to whether the child actually wants to do this or not and what they will get out of it. ~ luvsjack

Most important thing of all.

The kids from pageants get stuff out of it too. Some of them get a lot of confidence, different things for different kids. Is it a great experience for all of them? no, but neither are any other choices great for every kid who tries them. Is it a little "me" orientated? For my kids it is, but for others it's fine. It all comes down to if the CHILD wants to do it. If they are enjoying it, it's the right thing for them.

So you have kids that do pagents?? That would have been helpful to know and is very revealing about why you are so apt to bash everything else and defend pagents.

 

[torinsmom]

The way I see it, if the kid is enjoying it, whether it be competitive dance, sports, or pageants, it's really not anyone else's business. There's way too much true child abuse going on for people to worry about how letting a child play dress up in front of an audience vs. in their home will affect them negatively later in life. I don't think it would be possible to force a child to go on stage or on the field if they really didn't want to do it. Anything they put on tv is going to be the most extreme they can find--that's what gets people to watch. That's also why you often see the same kids/parents featured on T&T season after season.

FWIW, I do find the pictures with the enhanced eyes kind of creepy, but I don't think they are abuse either.

 

[torinsmom]

So you have kids that do pagents?? That would have been helpful to know and is very revealing about why you are so apt to bash everything else and defend pagents.

I imagine seeing people attack something that you do with your child(pageants) makes her feel exactly the way others feel when she bashes dance and cheerleading competitions. Some pulled up the extreme dance costumes, which is the same as people pointing out T&T as being the norm for pageants(the ones they pick ARE extremes).

 

[princessmom29]

I imagine seeing people attack something that you do with your child(pageants) makes her feel exactly the way others feel when she bashes dance and cheerleading competitions. Some pulled up the extreme dance costumes, which is the same as people pointing out T&T as being the norm for pageants(the ones they pick ARE extremes).

yes, but I am not saying that, and she is still attacking me. All I am saying is that my experience with pagents has not been positive, I don't care for what I see them teaching little girls, and don't do them with my DD. That doesn't mean that applies to all pagents or to everyone, nad i have never said that it does. I have no illusions that T and T is the norm. I have seen what is considered the "norm" for pagents in my area and I personally don't care for it. If she had said the same about dance that would be one thing, but she is painting it as if the most extreme examples are the norm, and that is what bothers me. She is free to not like dance, but most dance programs are NOT like the picture she is painting.

 

[princessmom29]

The way I see it, if the kid is enjoying it, whether it be competitive dance, sports, or pageants, it's really not anyone else's business. There's way too much true child abuse going on for people to worry about how letting a child play dress up in front of an audience vs. in their home will affect them negatively later in life. I don't think it would be possible to force a child to go on stage or on the field if they really didn't want to do it. Anything they put on tv is going to be the most extreme they can find--that's what gets people to watch. That's also why you often see the same kids/parents featured on T&T season after season.

FWIW, I do find the pictures with the enhanced eyes kind of creepy, but I don't think they are abuse either.

You are right. It boils down to what is right for the individual child, but does that mean we shouldn't discuss what does and odesn't work for our kids, nad why we make the choices we do? I would rather be informed about all the potential pitfalls so that i can make an informed decision. When I put DD into dance i had my own experience to rely on, but I still talked to other parents already involved,and shopped around for a studio that met our needs. We looked at several different activities as well ,and chose to do dance rather than the others based on what I ofund out talking to other parents and what i knew about my own DD ,her personality, and waht she enjoyed. We tried cheer for a while, but it is just not her thing and she didn't love it the way she loves dance so it isn't right for us.

 

[FredinFL]

So you have kids that do pagents?? That would have been helpful to know and is very revealing about why you are so apt to bash everything else and defend pagents.

I'm not bashing everything else. I'm just saying that, for some kids and parents, the pageant is what they want to do and I don't see how it's any worse than anything else. I'm just pointing out the ANY of them can be taken too far, parents can ruin just about any extra curricular fun kids want to have by being too pushy, not all of any one activity is run well and that the most important thing should be whether the child is enjoying it or not.

It's the perceived "Pageants are just awful!" notion I have a problem with, not any other activity. Let the kids have fun, your only a kid for a short amount of time. Are there overthetop Pageant Parents, sure, but they are everywhere and I have a feeling that no matter whether they are Pageant, Dance, Cheer, Little League, etc. parents, they would be pushy and over the top.

I don't have and probably never will have kids in pageants. I just think it's harsh to judge a child's activity as somehow not as good as another because it'snot what you have chosen to do with your child. Those kids put in a lot of work and effort to, their efforts and their happiness in what they do shouldn't be belittled.

 

[torinsmom]

yes, but I am not saying that, and she is still attacking me. All I am saying is that my experience with pagents has not been positive, I don't care for what I see them teaching little girls, and don't do them with my DD. That doesn't mean that applies to all pagents or to everyone, nad i have never said that it does. I have no illusions that T and T is the norm. I have seen what is considered the "norm" for pagents in my area and I personally don't care for it. If she had said the same about dance that would be one thing, but she is painting it as if the most extreme examples are the norm, and that is what bothers me. She is free to not like dance, but most dance programs are NOT like the picture she is painting.

I didn't see her attacking you at all. Maybe I missed something though. I know she called the skimpy dresses hoochie dresses and talked about making the kids up like tarts, but she spoke about that as happening in pageants as well as cheer and dance in some cases. She just pointed out that most of the dance studios around her dress the kids inappropriately(which is what I have seen in my limited experience as well, through pictures from relatives and friends' kids recitals). The closest I saw to an attack was actually you using the word "ignorant" to describe her beliefs about dance and cheer. Just because someone has a different opinion doesn't mean they are attacking you. Not trying to offend you; just stating what I saw when looking through the whole thread. You both have strong opinions and there's nothing wrong with that

 

[princessmom29]

I'm not bashing everything else. I'm just saying that, for some kids and parents, the pageant is what they want to do and I don't see how it's any worse than anything else. I'm just pointing out the ANY of them can be taken too far, parents can ruin just about any extra curricular fun kids want to have by being too pushy, not all of any one activity is run well and that the most important thing should be whether the child is enjoying it or not.

It's the perceived "Pageants are just awful!" notion I have a problem with, not any other activity. Let the kids have fun, your only a kid for a short amount of time. Are there overthetop Pageant Parents, sure, but they are everywhere and I have a feeling that no matter whether they are Pageant, Dance, Cheer, Little League, etc. parents, they would be pushy and over the top.

I don't have and probably never will have kids in pageants. I just think it's harsh to judge a child's activity as somehow not as good as another because it'snot what you have chosen to do with your child. Those kids put in a lot of work and effort to, their efforts and their happiness in what they do shouldn't be belittled.

Then why use terms like "hoochie" and "tart" to describe those activites if you are nto intending to be critical??

I didn't see her attacking you at all. Maybe I missed something though. I know she called the skimpy dresses hoochie dresses and talked about making the kids up like tarts, but she spoke about that as happening in pageants as well as cheer and dance in some cases. She just pointed out that most of the dance studios around her dress the kids inappropriately(which is what I have seen in my limited experience as well, through pictures from relatives and friends' kids recitals). The closest I saw to an attack was actually you using the word "ignorant" to describe her beliefs about dance and cheer. Just because someone has a different opinion doesn't mean they are attacking you. Not trying to offend you; just stating what I saw when looking through the whole thread. You both have strong opinions and there's nothing wrong with that

I see saying that children who dance are dressed like hoochies as attacking. Mabye others don't see it that way, but I don't apperciate my child being described in tht manner. She dances and does NOT dress like a hoochie. What she initially said that really bothers me was " Hoochie is hoochie, whether you are a pageant kid or not." I don't like seeing anyone's child called hoochie.



Being ignorant of something doesn't mean someone is unitelligent btw, just uninformed aboutr that particular topic. Some of the things she has said indicate to me that she is largely ignorant of what actually goes on in a dance studio. That is nto a judgment. I am COMPLETELY ignorant of anything to do with soccer, adn wouldn't try to discuss it with somone because I simply konw nothing about it.

 

[FredinFL]

No, I'm a girl. I still don't see the difference. Hoochie is hoochie, whether you are a pageant kid or not.

As far a travel sports go, I don't think I've ever seen a travel team with glitter, tutus and sparkly slippers. But, I've already stated, I haven't seen everything.

Going for a win isn't just for sports kids. Again, if the child enjoys it, I don't see the harm. YOU are the best judge of your child. Or at least, you should be.

http://www.dancedejavu.com/JAZZpg1.html - some recital dresses

http://www.dancedejavu.com/CHARACTER.html - more

http://www.pageantdesigns.com/in-stock-girls-short-pageant-dresses.html - some pageant dresses

http://www.pageantdesigns.com/in-stock-girls-long-pageant-dresses.html - more

You can go over the top with either, or be more sedate. I don't see much of a difference, other than the pageant dresses look a bit better made.

Again, referring to the outfits put on the children, I never said your child or anyone else's child was dancing like a hoochie.

 

[FredinFL]

A diva is a diva, whether in a group or alone. There's no difference to me whether you are sparkling and tartin' your kid up in a group for a show, or as the single star of the show. It's still short skirts, bellies showing, glamour and glitz. None are better or worse than the other.

If the kid is having a good time, great. It's the ones who drag the kids around thru these things that are sad.

PS: I LOVE MacKenzie, and am glad she's not mine.

Once more, talking about the PARENT glitzing the kid up, NOT the child being a tart.

You must be exhausted by the end of the day reading things into what other people say. Have a nice iced tea with a lemon wedge. Put your feet up, relax. No one is "attacking" you, I have my opinion, you have yours. I haven't once been mean or nasty to you. I simply don't believe one child's fun/dreams are more respectable than anothers because I choose not to have my child participate in it.

 

[torinsmom]

yes, but I am not saying that, and she is still attacking me. All I am saying is that my experience with pagents has not been positive, I don't care for what I see them teaching little girls, and don't do them with my DD. That doesn't mean that applies to all pagents or to everyone, nad i have never said that it does. I have no illusions that T and T is the norm. I have seen what is considered the "norm" for pagents in my area and I personally don't care for it. If she had said the same about dance that would be one thing, but she is painting it as if the most extreme examples are the norm, and that is what bothers me. She is free to not like dance, but most dance programs are NOT like the picture she is painting.

Once more, talking about the PARENT glitzing the kid up, NOT the child being a tart.

You must be exhausted by the end of the day reading things into what other people say. Have a nice iced tea with a lemon wedge. Put your feet up, relax. No one is "attacking" you, I have my opinion, you have yours. I haven't once been mean or nasty to you. I simply don't believe one child's fun/dreams are more respectable than anothers because I choose not to have my child participate in it.

I have to say I totally agree with you in this respect. As long as the kids are having fun, why should I worry about it? FWIW, I understood you were talking about the costumes when you said "hoochie is hoochie". If you had been using it as a noun, it would have read "A hoochie is a hoochie", but saying "hoochie is hoochie" is like saying "tall is tall" IMHO.

 

[rie'smom]

IMHO, it comes down to whether the child actually wants to do this or not and what they will get out of it.

DD danced, cheered, does showchoir now and plays softball now. What she has gotten out of all of that is team work, keeping a good attitude, hard work pays off, making and keeping a commitment, and how to be a team player. My sons played baseball, took karate, played soccer and football. Many valuable life lessons are learned through sports. The "physical" danger isn't quite as prevalent as you seem to think.

Can a child learn these same lessons from pagents? Maybe. But not with some of the moms they show on this show. All they are teaching these girls is that you want to be beautiful at all costs, your only importance is your beauty, your beauty will get you what you want and always do what you mother wants you to do.

If a child gets the RIGHT lessons from doing pagents, good. But on that particular show, I don't believe they are.

Don't forget editing. The show's people will go through hours of tape and pick the juiciest most scandalous bits that will cause the maximum gossip.