A video with a great message that got me choked up...

[OrlandoMike]

Oh mark your back again! Dont you get tired of messing with these kind people that actually talk to you like you have decent intentions here ?

Oh Viki, I think you have a friend!

 

[markp2]

Yes, I believe an applicable term would be that she is displaying righteous indignation. She is using her heartache and anger to spread the message that hate kills. A soft little ballad would be less effective. Actually, given the circumstances, I think she displayed remarkable restraint and used her passion with great effectiveness.

Fair enough, but let me ask you a question. After you watched the video, which emotion did you feel stronger? Anger/hate towards the traditional Christians who were caricatured in the video, or sympathy for the person killed?

PS, why did I never hear about this murder in the news--I would think the mainstream media would have had a field day with this. Can anyone link me to a news account?

 

[NYBlue1]

Oh Viki, I think you have a friend!

LOL, Nah Mike Im not going to get into it with him, I know Viki has warned him before.

 

[odd1]

Thank you so much for posting this! I loved the video. I'm going to have to check out more of her work. I read her bio -- she's had a tough time of it with more than one kind of cancer. She's an inspiration.

And cute, too.

 

[padalyn]

I was really moved by her story - I liked the way she used the music to make her passion for her friend felt.

Tiggr33 walked into the room and said: "when did you start listening to rap". She couldn't make out the words completely unfortunately - does anyone have a link to the lyrics?

I liked her sound and I don't typically listen to rap...she is powerful...of course being a gyrl

 

[ConcKahuna]

Fair enough, but let me ask you a question. After you watched the video, which emotion did you feel stronger? Anger/hate towards the traditional Christians who were caricatured in the video, or sympathy for the person killed?

PS, why did I never hear about this murder in the news--I would think the mainstream media would have had a field day with this. Can anyone link me to a news account?

Actually, I see something about a gay person being killed by gay bashers nearly every month, if not more often. The point is it's become so commonplace that it doesnt make national news anymore. The media seems to look at is as "Oh, another gay was killed. No big deal, we'll just talk about Iraq or Paris Hilton instead." That's probably why she made this video in the first place.

 

[NYBlue1]

Actually, I see something about a gay person being killed by gay bashers nearly every month, if not more often. The point is it's become so commonplace that it doesnt make national news anymore. The media seems to look at is as "Oh, another gay was killed. No big deal, we'll just talk about Iraq or Paris Hilton instead." That's probably why she made this video in the first place.

I have to disagree with you, even Iraq is not something to be reported on , just paris hilton

 

[ConcKahuna]

I have to disagree with you, even Iraq is not something to be reported on , just paris hilton

LOL too true! Although now Lindsay Lohan is stealing the spotlight

 

[TinkerValkyrie]

Fair enough, but let me ask you a question. After you watched the video, which emotion did you feel stronger? Anger/hate towards the traditional Christians who were caricatured in the video, or sympathy for the person killed?

Why not feel both equally? I feel anger towards the church for condeming them and sadness for the man who was lost.

Those perfect little traditional Christians portrayed can be just as responsible for homosexual deaths by gay bashers.

My best friend, a gay man, was almost driven to suicide by his roommates in the Men's Discipleship House at my college. Those roommates were good traditional Christians who were supposed to be all fine and upstanding citizens. Some have gone on to be ministers where I'm sure they continue to preach intolerance. When they found out he was gay, instead of supporting it as his lifestyle choice they harassed him, threatened him, and just made his life unbearable. My friend was trying to be a good Christian, but they treated him like he was the ultimate evil sinner. Had my friend killed himself, his death would have been their fault.

 

[markp2]

Why not feel both equally? I feel anger towards the church for condeming them and sadness for the man who was lost.

Those perfect little traditional Christians portrayed can be just as responsible for homosexual deaths by gay bashers.

My best friend, a gay man, was almost driven to suicide by his roommates in the Men's Discipleship House at my college. Those roommates were good traditional Christians who were supposed to be all fine and upstanding citizens. Some have gone on to be ministers where I'm sure they continue to preach intolerance. When they found out he was gay, instead of supporting it as his lifestyle choice they harassed him, threatened him, and just made his life unbearable. My friend was trying to be a good Christian, but they treated him like he was the ultimate evil sinner. Had my friend killed himself, his death would have been their fault.

Tinker, sorry can't agree with you. Unless it was an extremely unusual circumstance, it would have been your friend's choice to take his own life, and therefore his own fault. I think many people resort to Christian-bashing far too easily in this regard. I'm not familar with the Men's Discipleship House, but could it be that these were caring Christians who did not want to see their homosexual friend engage in what they saw as harmful behavior? Wouldn't you do the same for a friend that you thought was engaging in harmful behavior? I wouldn't call that intolerant.

 

[OrlandoMike]

MarkP2

You have a total of 8 posts, 6 of them in this thread alone.

If your not gay, or at least gay friendly, why are you spending so much time on the gay boards?

 

[NYBlue1]

Tinker, sorry can't agree with you. Unless it was an extremely unusual circumstance, it would have been your friend's choice to take his own life, and therefore his own fault. I think many people resort to Christian-bashing far too easily in this regard. I'm not familiar with the Men's Discipleship House, but could it be that these were caring Christians who did not want to see their homosexual friend engage in what they saw as harmful behavior? Wouldn't you do the same for a friend that you thought was engaging in harmful behavior? I wouldn't call that intolerant.

Mark its beyond obvious you are "caring Christian" .If somebody is being pushed to the point of wanting to kill themselves you think the "caring" may have been takin to an "extreamly unusual circumstance" as you put it?

You have zero, actually let me change that beyond zero idea of what its like to be a gay person or how rough it can be to be one. I'm asking you as a fellow christian, not the "caring kind" you are to leave the people of this board alone.

You don't want to learn about what its like to be gay, you don't want to ask any questions, you don't want to just hang out and have conversation, you want to passively bash or is it "save" the fine folks that have found a decent forum here filled with all kinds of fine people gay and straight.

You know that your doing something wrong cause you have had two different names here both with under 10 posts , do you have a real dis board name or do you just go anywhere where there are gay topics and offer your nuggets of care?

Your not going to "save" anybody here and your not going to preach anything none of us has not heard before. Cut the baloney, enough is enough, you have now crossed the line and are openly insulting. If you don't get it, go figure it out or don't be concerned with these issues. Try reading the Mathew Shepard story that would be a great place to start.

 

[OrlandoMike]

Amen Brother!!

It kills me that people on a Disney board are anti gay! Who do you think provides all that magic?

 

[TinkerValkyrie]

I'm not familar with the Men's Discipleship House, but could it be that these were caring Christians who did not want to see their homosexual friend engage in what they saw as harmful behavior? Wouldn't you do the same for a friend that you thought was engaging in harmful behavior? I wouldn't call that intolerant.

Mark,

Had they approached him in a mature adult manner and spoke with him about their concerns about his sexuality I may have passed them off as "caring Christians". The way the treated him was not the way any person, let alone "friend" should be treated. Gossiping, trying to alienate his other Christian friends, trying to force him out of the place he had paid money to live in(mid semester when he would have had no where to go), and trying to make him look bad within his department of study are not caring ways to treat someone you're concerned about. After I made the call to have him committed unless he entered treatment himself, they wouldn't even talk to his poor mother who called the house in a panic trying to find out what was going on and where he was. Is that caring Christian behavior?

As for your question about whether I'd intervene if a friend was engaging in harmful behavior? Of course I would. However, my methods wouldn't be that of the members of the Men's Discipleship House. I did intervene with my friend. I saw suicidal tendencies in him so I found him help. After he was released from treatment I supported him in every way I could. He spent many nights on my couch during his rough days when he shouldn't be alone. I didn't cut him off, I didn't talk about his situation behind his back.

If you're trying to get someone to stop harmful behavior, ruining their self esteem is NOT the way to go about it. Belittling them isn't a good way to go about it either. If a friend of mine was a smoker or a drug user I wouldn't drive them to the point they felt they needed to kill themselves in order to "save them" from their destructive behaviors.

These same guys tried to stage an "intervention" for me when I was seen among the pagan student group. I suppose they were just trying to save me from the harmfulness of being a pagan. But you know, I saw more love and compassion for my fellow people among the pagan group then I ever did among the "caring Christians" of the Men's Discipleship House.

 

[ConcKahuna]

You're pagan too? While I'm technically Mormon at the moment, I used to study celtic traditions

 

[TinkerValkyrie]

You're pagan too? While I'm technically Mormon at the moment, I used to study celtic traditions

Yes, I've studied paganism for about 15 years and have been practicing for about 9. I follow the Norse/Germanic path myself.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

What I feel when I watch that video is an incredible sadness that Melange's friend had to die as a result of hate. She is not presenting hatred, or bashing anyone or any group. She is calling attention to what has happened. She is expecting hate mongering groups to accept the responsibility for the messages they send and the effect those messages have on society members.

She is a strong and beautiful woman, who deserves to have a healthy and long life. I hope she has it.


If someone cannot understand how another individual can be tormented to the point of considering suicide, then the non-understanding person lacks the ability to engage in empathy. Unless a person has experienced daily expressions of disgust for simply being alive, then that sort of soul damaging experience cannot be fully understood.

Being gay is not a problematic or dangerous behavior. It hurts no one, including the person her/himself, nor does it pose a threat to society, or the constructs of mores that are bandied about in all misplaced glory.

I too have studied religions, and believe that true Celtic based Paganism is probably the closest thing we are going to get to experiencing the totality of the universe.

If others choose to follow a religion based on the precepts of one person, Jesus, Mohammed, Brigham Young, whomever, then fine. Follow it. But get it right, will ya'?

"Whatever you do unto the least of my bretheren, so you do unto me." Remember that one? Don't warp it out of context. Understand it for the loving acceptance it is trying to promote.

Oiy. Why do I try.

 

[Fitswimmer]

When I was in college, our upstairs neighbor in the dorms was gay. Great guy, we loved him to death. Anyway, one night I get a phone call from him-he's in a phone booth on the campus of a major university not far from our little private college. ( I won't mention the school or the area because I don't want to paint it in a bad light) He asked if I could come up and get him. Turns out some members of a fraternity of athletes felt that he needed to be educated and they beat the crap out of him. They didn't make him any less gay, just cracked a couple of ribs, gave him a bloody nose and split his lip.

What many people do in the name of Christianity is no better, the scars just don't show.

 

[markp2]

MarkP2

You have a total of 8 posts, 6 of them in this thread alone.

If your not gay, or at least gay friendly, why are you spending so much time on the gay boards?

I believe I'm friendly to everyone--at least I try to be--even when people aren't friendly to me. (And I guess this makes it 7 out of 9 posts now)

You have zero, actually let me change that beyond zero idea of what its like to be a gay person or how rough it can be to be one. .

I don't accept this line of argument, because it leads to nihilism. By this logic, a homosexual can never criticize a heterosexual, because he's not one; a black man can never criticize a white man, because he's not one; a woman can never criticize a man, because she's not one. All you end up with is everyone being their own little island with no "real" connection to anyone else. It may work for Sartre, but it doesn't work for me.

Mark,

Had they approached him in a mature adult manner and spoke with him about their concerns about his sexuality I may have passed them off as "caring Christians". The way the treated him was not the way any person, let alone "friend" should be treated. Gossiping, trying to alienate his other Christian friends, trying to force him out of the place he had paid money to live in(mid semester when he would have had no where to go), and trying to make him look bad within his department of study are not caring ways to treat someone you're concerned about. After I made the call to have him committed unless he entered treatment himself, they wouldn't even talk to his poor mother who called the house in a panic trying to find out what was going on and where he was. Is that caring Christian behavior?

As for your question about whether I'd intervene if a friend was engaging in harmful behavior? Of course I would. However, my methods wouldn't be that of the members of the Men's Discipleship House. I did intervene with my friend. I saw suicidal tendencies in him so I found him help. After he was released from treatment I supported him in every way I could. He spent many nights on my couch during his rough days when he shouldn't be alone. I didn't cut him off, I didn't talk about his situation behind his back.

If you're trying to get someone to stop harmful behavior, ruining their self esteem is NOT the way to go about it. Belittling them isn't a good way to go about it either. If a friend of mine was a smoker or a drug user I wouldn't drive them to the point they felt they needed to kill themselves in order to "save them" from their destructive behaviors.

These same guys tried to stage an "intervention" for me when I was seen among the pagan student group. I suppose they were just trying to save me from the harmfulness of being a pagan. But you know, I saw more love and compassion for my fellow people among the pagan group then I ever did among the "caring Christians" of the Men's Discipleship House.

Tinker, thank you for your thoughtful reply. Of course, you are right. Gossiping alienating, belittling someone does not help him and is wrong, and is certainly NOT the Christian thing to do. I guess what I took issue with was when you stated that they should have supported his lifestyle choice. I think that's asking too much.

 

[NYBlue1]

I believe I'm friendly to everyone--at least I try to be--even when people aren't friendly to me. (And I guess this makes it 7 out of 9 posts now).

Your not friendly mark if you think you truly think you are being friendly than your lost as to what the diffrence between friendly and backhanded insulting is.

I don't accept this line of argument, because it leads to nihilism. By this logic, a homosexual can never criticize a heterosexual, because he's not one; a black man can never criticize a white man, because he's not one; a woman can never criticize a man, because she's not one. All you end up with is everyone being their own little island with no "real" connection to anyone else. It may work for Sartre, but it doesn't work for me.

Of course you dont accept this line of argument because it stops your "theories" dead in there tracks and you have no recourse. If you have never been the victim of the hate and fear for personal saftey that comes along with being gay or black or whatever you cant relate . Its very easy to sit back and comment on things that you have less than zero clue about cause you have never walked in those footsteps. You have to try better than that.Again Matthew Shepard story.

Tinker, thank you for your thoughtful reply. Of course, you are right. Gossiping alienating, belittling someone does not help him and is wrong, and is certainly NOT the Christian thing to do. I guess what I took issue with was when you stated that they should have supported his lifestyle choice. I think that's asking too much.

There you go again, thanks tinker in the first sentence and than insult with calling a gay persons LIFE ,the life that was given to them a "choice" and a "lifestyle". They should have supported there fellow human being and friend. If they wanted to try to preach there thinking to him, great, if he didnt want to hear it DROP IT.They are uncomfortable with his life , than dont be so friendly with him if it bothered them so, you dont attack somebody to the point they are ready to hurt themselves over it. Christians, what a JOKE, they are no Christians.

Mark your not the first person to try to talk to us this way, you will not be the last, your intentions are transparent, your arguments have been spit out at us again and again and again. You dont agree with gays , stay away than, let us live our lives, in peace. You live yours on repentamerica.com or one of those more friendly christian websites.