A Missing Kid Story

[Tonka's Skipper]

You are indeed correct, when someone cannot defend a position, just came them names!......Thier are a few here who use *cheerleader* as code..........any one who has a different opinion, that may not agree to the idea that DCL is in the wrong, uses *cheereleader* to say that person is not able to offer a honest and fair opinion, thier opinion should not be considered.


AKK

 

[manhattanman]

I agree with you that there's a lot to be questioned. My point wasn't to discount your opinion- it was to add on to the vagueness of much of the information.

I think that many are trying to affix blame (yay Internet!)- my use of the term assumption is from the fact that each side only thinks that the other side's assumptions are assumptions.

I dont like it much either, but its not like Disney is going to explain their security policy publically ( as one could reverse engineer a vulnerability) or the specifics of this incident . Short of that, its pretty much impossible to say what remedies could be implemented so that it never happens again, which i would hope would be the prime objective. Unfortunately, its does not seem to be the case with a lot of appologists impuning the veracity, character or sobriety of the dad.

Me, i dont know. the dad could be a scheemer, or disney cold have made a mistake. for some people the latter notion is, apparently, inconceivable.

 

[KappaSigHero]

You are indeed correct......Thier are a few here who use *cheerleader* as code..........any one who has a different opinion, that may not agree to the idea that DCL is in the wrong, uses *cheereleader* to say that person is not able to offer a honest and fair opinion, thier opinion should not be considered.

AKK

And I'm sure there are some who preach that Disney can do no wrong, as well as some who preach that they can do no right. But from what I've seen, there are quite a few who fall on the middle that are being inaccurately mischaracterized.

 

[KappaSigHero]

I dont like it much either, but its not like Disney is going to explain their security policy publically ( as one could reverse engineer a vulnerability) or the specifics of this incident . Short of that, its pretty much impossible to say what remedies could be implemented so that it never happens again, which i would hope would be the prime objective. Unfortunately, its does not seem to be the case with a lot of appologists impuning the veracity, character or sobriety of the dad.

Me, i dont know. the dad could be a scheemer, or disney cold have made a mistake. for some people the latter notion is, apparently, inconceivable.

I think it's wrong to attack the guy's character, and worse to imply drunkenness. My criticism of him comes mainly in two areas- 1) his assessment of the system makes a lot of assumptions and has some inaccuracies (unintentionally) that more seasoned cruisers have identified and 2) as a crisis manager, I can look from the outside and see some areas where he could have reacted differently (though I don't blame him for acting as he did in the moment).

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

And I'm sure there are some who preach that Disney can do no wrong, as well as some who preach that they can do no right. But from what I've seen, there are quite a few who fall on the middle that are being inaccurately mischaracterized.

I tottally agree!

 

[manhattanman]

I think it's wrong to attack the guy's character, and worse to imply drunkenness. My criticism of him comes mainly in two areas- 1) his assessment of the system makes a lot of assumptions and has some inaccuracies (unintentionally) that more seasoned cruisers have identified and 2) as a crisis manager, I can look from the outside and see some areas where he could have reacted differently (though I don't blame him for acting as he did in the moment).

I think you have to make assumptions, i dont think anyone knows how the RFID system on board actually works and without that knowledge trying to piece the story together is pretty much impossible.

I dont think anyone is disputing that something happened where disney could not find the boy for 45 minutes. some have suggested that it was the kids fault for climbing under the chairs and falling asleep. and yes in retrospect the father could have acted differently but Im willing to give him a pass on that.

my hope is that disney will look into this and see if thy could have done something different, but even if they do this, I suspect we will never hear about it ( unless it comes to a lawsuit, which seems unlikely now). and if disney cant do anything about it then that's okay as well

 

[tinkerone]

this thread has started to get really off track with name calling. its gone from 'who's right and who's wrong' to 'I say I love Disney but you can tell I really HATE Disney' or 'I love Disney so much you will never convince me i'm wrong' and everything in between.
lets all keep friendly and remember that 'everyone is going to have an opinion and they just may have a point and I have to respect that'.

 

[gilsan]

Our first cruise was 3 day on the Dream there were 1500 kids on the cruise. The clubs were packed. My daughter (6 at the time) went a few times. The first time she went for a specific activity and had a good time.

The next time we left her was in the evening when I went to get her I found her propped up on a chair dozing. Other kids had been given mats and it seemed to me, her mom, that she was being a little neglected . I didn't get why one of the CM's didn't lead her to mat to lie down.

The third and last time was on Castaway Cay. We dropped her off and the kids were at lunch she was told to go sit and wait for everyone to be finished. She looked so sad I felt like I had left her in prison. We came back about 15 minutes later to get her and they were still sitting at the lunch area. She saw us and came running. One of the CM's yelled at her in a really harsh tone to sit back down, she is very sensitive and broke into tears. The CM quickly apologized, I think she knew that she had been a bit harsh. It took forever to get her out, but there was no way they were going to let her out without going through the security measures.

We were not at all impressed with the kids clubs I did feel that they are presented as more supervision than they really are, and I definitely don't think that Disney can do no wrong.

On our second cruise on the Fantasy we had a much better experience. My daughter was refusing to go to the clubs before we got on the ship. She made a friend and was much happier at the clubs with her friend. I think there were a number of reason why it went better the second time. Less kids, a longer cruise, and our expectations were more realistic with regards to the club.

I do think the clubs are a safe place for kids. I might keep a younger child out of the club if I had a concern, but if your kids go to school and play in a school yard at lunch they are prepared for the clubs. Based on our experience I have a hard time seeing how a child could leave the club unnoticed.

Based on the fact this incident was on a 4 day cruise, I would think the experience in the clubs for this Dad would have been more like our first cruise. I bit chaotic in the clubs and difficult to track the location of ever single child. I really don't understand why he felt like the gangplank was the first place look but different people with different perspectives.

If he had just stopped and and took a deep breathe he could have saved himself and his wife some heartache.

 

[justmestace]

He never posted it in a blog, at least.

So if no one saw it in writing, then it must be ASSUMED that he wanted to do this???? You know what they say about assuming things.......except leave me out of it.

 

[KappaSigHero]

So if no one saw it in writing, then it must be ASSUMED that he wanted to do this???? You know what they say about assuming things.......except leave me out of it.

It's really not fair to assume anything either way, but that's not stopping anyone on either side (including you) from doing so.

 

[justmestace]

You are indeed correct, when someone cannot defend a position, just came them names!......Thier are a few here who use *cheerleader* as code..........any one who has a different opinion, that may not agree to the idea that DCL is in the wrong, uses *cheereleader* to say that person is not able to offer a honest and fair opinion, thier opinion should not be considered.


AKK

Earlier in this thread, when I used a commonly repeated quote (without naming the person who says it often) you told me that it was a LOW BLOW.
Remember now, that while you're pointing that one finger at someone, three others are pointed right back at YOU.

 

[sunryzez]

I think that this man really just wanted his cruise compensated. With not personally being there I cannot know what really happened and if Disney was at any fault or not. If it actually took 45 minutes to find a child and staff was not actually looking then I would be fuming as well but having just been on the Wonder 2 months ago, I find it hard to believe that the child was sleeping and they couldn't find him for 45 minutes. At one point on my cruise I went to pick up my 4 year old son and didnt find him, there were ALOT of kids since they were doing pirate night activites and there are two sepertate rooms he could be in but I found a cm and within 5 mins or so we found him. Actually several cms helped me look for him so I find it odd that in almost an hour that all cms were not on a higher alert then what he was saying.
I also think he wanted to just be compensated because on my daughters first day of first grade the bus driver let her off on the wrong stop. We had just moved to the area and she was only 6. Long story short it was the scariest thing I have ever been through and that lasted about 45 minutes as well. Thank God she was found and fine but the LAST thing on my mind was getting compensated. All I cared about was that I found my daughter.
This is not a story about loving/hating Disney...It is a story about someone who had a bad experience and wants to be overly compensated for it.
As far as the off topics of kids club safety..at the end of the day they are your children, do with them as you wish and what you are comfortable with. If you dont like the clubs then dont send them, but bashing them is uncalled for. I love the clubs and love the fact that they mix the ages 3-12 so all my children can be together. If they werent my oldest who is SO shy would hate the cruise because she would never go off to a club on her own. At the end of the day Disney has to make the choices they make and then we can make our choices based on those rules. Im just glad the child was safe.

 

[manhattanman]

So if no one saw it in writing, then it must be ASSUMED that he wanted to do this???? You know what they say about assuming things.......except leave me out of it.

that's kind of snarky, don't you think ?

people are going to form an opinion based on the evidence provided. If the father didnt do a good job of explaining the situation and specifically why he felt wronged by DCL, that's at least partially on him, no ?

 

[justmestace]

It's really not fair to assume anything either way, but that's not stopping anyone on either side (including you) from doing so.

Me? Where?

 

[DISNEYFOS]

So the dad tossed the idea around of getting a refund.....and he was turned down.

Is that so awful????


How many times have any of us tried to get something for free, when we felt that an establishment has "done us wrong"? A free dinner because we weren't satisfied with a meal.....any number of things.

What's the big deal that he asked for a refund? He asked, they said no, and that was the end of it. He didn't SUE. He didn't threaten to sue.

Never... I would most likely not use their services again/or not go there again ...but I don't actually try to get something for free. I mean a refund for an entire cruise because of something that happened with the 'Free" childcare?

My kids are older, but if I put them in a setting like that. I set some ground rules, don't go off by yourself, stay with the group, here is a code word we will use don't leave with anyone unless they know our special word. I also would require my older child to stay with my younger. yeah yeah I know..mean mommy.

Maybe I just lack trust...but they would have to be old enough/responsible enough in order to understand those rules before I would leave them there,

maybe one of the changes Disney needs to make is the age ranges of the clubs...It looks like you can move between the two clubs as well..that's a lot of freedom for a 3 year old.

 

[justmestace]

that's kind of snarky, don't you think ?

people are going to form an opinion based on the evidence provided. If the father didnt do a good job of explaining the situation and specifically why he felt wronged by DCL, that's at least partially on him, no ?

I don't think it was snarky and didn't mean it to be. I'm saying that there's been a lot tossed out here that the man never really said. And if he didn't really post it in his blog, why are people saying things that he never said? That's assuming.

I think what he said in his blog was very clear. Multiple times, he very clearly posted what he was thinking and what he had expected. He used bullets, even...or whatever those are called.

Why would it be HIS FAULT if people don't understand him, or didn't read it all?

 

[justmestace]

Never... I would most likely not use their services again/or not go there again ...but I don't actually try to get something for free.

My kids are older, but if I put them in a setting like that. I set some ground rules, don't go off by yourself, stay with the group, here is a code word we will use don't leave with anyone unless they know our special word. I also would require my older child to stay with my younger. yeah yeah I know..mean mommy.

Maybe I just lack trust...but they would have to be old enough/responsible enough in order to understand those rules before I would leave them there,

maybe one of the changes Disney needs to make is the age ranges of the clubs...It looks like you can move between the two clubs as well..that's a lot of freedom for a 3 year old.

So if you found a hair in your food at a restaurant, you wouldn't want a replacement, or a refund? Same thing.

 

[manhattanman]

I don't think it was snarky and didn't mean it to be. I'm saying that there's been a lot tossed out here that the man never really said. And if he didn't really post it in his blog, why are people saying things that he never said? That's assuming.

I think what he said in his blog was very clear. Multiple times, he very clearly posted what he was thinking and what he had expected. He used bullets, even...or whatever those are called.

Why would it be HIS FAULT if people don't understand him, or didn't read it all?

I guess we have different definitions of snarky, then.

 

[EPCOTatNight]

So if you found a hair in your food at a restaurant, you wouldn't want a replacement, or a refund? Same thing.

If I found a hair in my gelato, I wouldn't ask for a free steak.

 

[justmestace]

If I found a hair in my gelato, I wouldn't ask for a free steak.

Well, it would have been kind of hard for the man to ask for the 45 minutes of terror to be returned to him.

I still don't see what's wrong with asking, anyway.

And I'll ALWAYS believe that if this had happened on any other cruise line, most of the people here who are calling this man a liar and a money-grubbing jerk would instead be rallying behind him.