A Missing Kid Story

[Tonka's Skipper]

This is a good point..it almost sounds like he's setting up to file a suit later on.


AKK

WHERE would you get that??? ASSUMING again? Any rational credibilty you've had as an ex-skipper just dropped into the tank. Usually your FACTS are spot-on and reasonable.

This is just too sad.

[/QUOTE]


Sorry you feel that way..............it is just what it sounds like.......a run at trying to get alot of attention could be a run at set things up for a suit later.

I did not assume anything..........only presenting a possiblity.

AKK

 

[TDC Nala]

people are already implying that he's a drunk, or a guy on the take trying to milk it on social media as well with lots of people questioning his parenting skills.

I'm glad everything worked out well and a lot of people have beefs ( legitimate or not) with disney, I'm sure its not the first time someone has asked for some type of refund. I would imagine that some of these beefs are legitimate and some are not.

If " losing" ( and I use this term loosely) someone's kid for 45 minutes isn't "refund material", what is ? when the ship sailed through the tail end of sandy, people were legitimitely scared (even though the ship was never in any real danger) although i dont think there were and real injuries, but the passengers got a discount on a future cruise. Were they wronged worse than this guy and his wife ?

I think the bigger isssue is not whether he gets a dime from disney, but how or why did the technology that Disney implemented and markets heavily fail in this specific instance ?

The kid was hiding. As far as I can tell the bracelet is not intended to pinpoint the child's exact location so they wouldn't have found him right away even if it had worked. Just if they're in the club or not. From what he wrote, he thought the kid could have left the club and went around the ship looking for him, so maybe they couldn't tell if the kid was still checked in or not. I'm unsure on that point.

But I don't think they were wronged based on the incident itself. Were they wronged because the crew didn't treat them right? Maybe. I'm not sure how he would have liked to be treated. He did say the crew should have been more "consoling." Maybe they should have...Full refund for that? No.

 

[justmestace]

Page 2 of this thread refers to the original blog post: http://www.brentcsutoras.com/2013/03/06/disney-cruise-lost-child-destroyed-vacation-lost-confidence/



I apologize for inserting the metal chair legs assumption. I specify chairs and furniture for a living and only under rare instances are chairs all plastic in commercial settings.

Someone else made the comment about the ship being metal. Not really relevant, Your house and every building has metal in it. The RF signal is distorted by the distance from target from the reciever and by the mass and composition of items around the target (this child's bracelet). Receivers are installed all over the kids club to help eliminate this problem with reception. Think of it this way. Have you every been inside of a building and lost a cell signal? Then moved 5 feet to have it return. This is my assumption why they received no signal. If the child was in a dead signal area and did not move because they were sleeping, a signal would not be found.

Here's a picture of the chairs in that particular kids club. My point is that too many people are ASSUMING things that are just wrong.
Too many people are trying so hard to come up with reasons why this could never be the fault of DCL or anyone who works there.

Someone even falsely said just recently that the KID WAS HIDING.....which is a sad attempt at making it sound like it's the fault of a 3 year old CHILD. He wasn't hiding, he fell asleep....and the only people who have said that he was found in the club asleep are the CM's........
Turning this whole thing around, who's to say the CM's aren't lying to cover themselves, and that maybe they found the kid wandering around on deck? NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE. Many have said that it's IMPOSSIBLE for a kid to escape the club, yet some have said that their kid did.

No one knows for sure about any of this. But I sure do wish that people could just for once admit that maybe, just maybe, DCL might have a problem or may have made a mistake.

 

[Lisa Lisa]

I can't believe I've read all 15 pages... and that I'm chiming in for the first time at this point! If I had been in that man's place, given that neither he nor the CMs in the club could locate his child AND the child's wristband came up unreadable, I would have been pretty upset as well. I'd like to think that I would have kept my composure, but I can't guarantee that I would have.

The issue to me is not how he reacted in the moment, but the type of recompense he asked for afterward. In the aftermath of an incident like that, I just don't see asking the cruise director to have the captain to stop by my table at dinner to apologize and wish me or DH a happy birthday. I also can't imagine asking for a full refund. As others have said, I would want to know what actions would be taken to try to prevent similar incidents in the future. Plus, honestly, I would want to see DCL offer something as a goodwill gesture. A bottle of wine and tickets to WDW would have gone a long way for me.

Even more telling than the above though, to me, is the way that the dad posted on his blog. Unless I've missed it, no one has mentioned the title of his blog post:

"How Disney Wonder Cruise Lost Our Child, Destroyed Our Vacation, and Lost Our Confidence"

Can you say "sensationalism?" This is where the man's profession comes into play. I would argue that he came up with the most inflammatory wording possible in hopes that the "story" would spread.

One other note. I agree that the issue with the wristband is concerning, but no technology works 100% perfectly 100% of the time. It is unfortunate that, in this instance, the wristband was being worn by a child who was asleep out of sight.

 

[justmestace]

So the dad tossed the idea around of getting a refund.....and he was turned down.

Is that so awful????


How many times have any of us tried to get something for free, when we felt that an establishment has "done us wrong"? A free dinner because we weren't satisfied with a meal.....any number of things.

What's the big deal that he asked for a refund? He asked, they said no, and that was the end of it. He didn't SUE. He didn't threaten to sue.

 

[bengals01]

I was on the elevator with my 2 grandsons. One was in the stroller and one standing along side the stroller. We stopped on other floors and other people got on. When our floor came my grandson got off and I tried to move the stroller but the wheels wouldn't go the way I wanted. The people just stood there and let the door close. So my grandson was left standing outside the elevator. He was 4. I immediately hit the next floor. I hurried and got off and then go back down. Luckily he just stayed there. He was very upset. I can't believe people don't try to hold the door open seeing I was trying to get off. It was a sick feeling but once I found him everything was fine. I wouldn't have let that ruin the rest of my cruise.

 

[manhattanman]

The kid was hiding. As far as I can tell the bracelet is not intended to pinpoint the child's exact location so they wouldn't have found him right away even if it had worked. Just if they're in the club or not. From what he wrote, he thought the kid could have left the club and went around the ship looking for him, so maybe they couldn't tell if the kid was still checked in or not. I'm unsure on that point.

if they wanted to know whether a kid is in the kids club, a key logger would be more than enough ( slide the KTTW card going in and coming out). That's NOT what the RFID bracelts are for, the bracelet IS intended to pinpoint the childs precise location and I can assure you that Disney DOES market the use of these bracelets to entice security-concerned parents.

The fact that he went around the ship could be due to his belief that the RFID system was working and that one explanation for this sons signal being " unavailable" was that he was no longer in the kids club. The other, obviously, is that he was still in the club but for some reason it wasnt picking up his signal. if its the latter they should address this, that's all i'm saying.


Should he get a full refund, that's not for me to say. but misrepresenting what the intent of the bracelets is ( to either make disney look better or the father worse) does nobody any good.

Personally I'd rather find a thumb in my chilli than the realization that my child is somewhere on a huge ship with thousands of strangers and the people I entrusted to at the very least, corall my kid, have no idea where he or she is. but perhaps that's just me.

 

[dansamy]

I have not read this entire thread. I have never cruised. I do not know exactly which security band Disney uses. I am a pediatric/mother/baby nurse. Our hospital uses a very common security band. It is not a GPS. It shows which receiver last picked up a signal from the band. If the band is tampered with, even accidentally, it alarms. The hospital's entire security team responds & the doors to our secure units & associated stairwells are locked. If an infant goes out the doors in an unauthorized fashion, the system also alarms for that. If Disney's system is in any way similar, the child could not have left in an unauthorized fashion without an alert. And I can't imagine that Disney, with their far greater resources, doesn't have a system at least as basic as what newborn nurseries in hundreds of hospitals in America use.

 

[MrsScooby]

I can't believe I've read all 15 pages... and that I'm chiming in for the first time at this point! If I had been in that man's place, given that neither he nor the CMs in the club could locate his child AND the child's wristband came up unreadable, I would have been pretty upset as well. I'd like to think that I would have kept my composure, but I can't guarantee that I would have.

The issue to me is not how he reacted in the moment, but the type of recompense he asked for afterward. In the aftermath of an incident like that, I just don't see asking the cruise director to have the captain to stop by my table at dinner to apologize and wish me or DH a happy birthday. I also can't imagine asking for a full refund. As others have said, I would want to know what actions would be taken to try to prevent similar incidents in the future. Plus, honestly, I would want to see DCL offer something as a goodwill gesture. A bottle of wine and tickets to WDW would have gone a long way for me.

Even more telling than the above though, to me, is the way that the dad posted on his blog. Unless I've missed it, no one has mentioned the title of his blog post:

"How Disney Wonder Cruise Lost Our Child, Destroyed Our Vacation, and Lost Our Confidence"

Can you say "sensationalism?" This is where the man's profession comes into play. I would argue that he came up with the most inflammatory wording possible in hopes that the "story" would spread.

One other note. I agree that the issue with the wristband is concerning, but no technology works 100% perfectly 100% of the time. It is unfortunate that, in this instance, the wristband was being worn by a child who was asleep out of sight.

Missed that title...
Also wondering about his agenda at this point...
I also agree with alot of the posts prior about how badly the Dad handled the situation. Not saying that I wouldn't have done the same thing, but wondering if he had stayed calm and remained in the club if the whole thing would have turned out better.
But, also hoping DCL learns from this incident and follows through on their promises to adjust the lighting and educate the staff so no one else has to have this scare. Plus I'm thinking I'll be looking at my own reactions in the future to make sure I remember how important it is to remain calm in difficult situations.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Here's a picture of the chairs in that particular kids club. My point is that too many people are ASSUMING things that are just wrong.
Too many people are trying so hard to come up with reasons why this could never be the fault of DCL or anyone who works there.

Someone even falsely said just recently that the KID WAS HIDING.....which is a sad attempt at making it sound like it's the fault of a 3 year old CHILD. He wasn't hiding, he fell asleep....and the only people who have said that he was found in the club asleep are the CM's........
Turning this whole thing around, who's to say the CM's aren't lying to cover themselves, and that maybe they found the kid wandering around on deck? NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE. Many have said that it's IMPOSSIBLE for a kid to escape the club, yet some have said that their kid did.

No one knows for sure about any of this. But I sure do wish that people could just for once admit that maybe, just maybe, DCL might have a problem or may have made a mistake.

Stacy, we don't know if DCL has a problem or a issue, your basing all your opinions on the Fathers blog........what there is true and what isn't?

So far DCL has admited the child was lost for awhile, the braclet has a issue, most seem the beleive, as I do ...........other wise to say CM's are lieing is the same as saying everything the Father said was to put him it a good light including lies.


This is why many here are questioning.

AKK


I would rather discuss this in private, but so you know, I have had my hand slapped for defending a person and it being seen as a attack, so I cannot email for awhile

 

[manhattanman]

I have not read this entire thread. I have never cruised. I do not know exactly which security band Disney uses. I am a pediatric/mother/baby nurse. Our hospital uses a very common security band. It is not a GPS. It shows which receiver last picked up a signal from the band. If the band is tampered with, even accidentally, it alarms. The hospital's entire security team responds & the doors to our secure units & associated stairwells are locked. If an infant goes out the doors in an unauthorized fashion, the system also alarms for that. If Disney's system is in any way similar, the child could not have left in an unauthorized fashion without an alert. And I can't imagine that Disney, with their far greater resources, doesn't have a system at least as basic as what newborn nurseries in hundreds of hospitals in America use.

not the same, the kids wear them all the time, inside and outside of the clubs. they get if the first time and they are supposed to keep it on the entire time, then return the bracelet at the end.

my understanding is that the RFID dectectors are only in the kids club although how deeply vested in analytics disney is ( my understanding is that fastpass plus is pretty much this to track and analyse individuals withing WDW) it would not surprise me if there were detectors in other parts of the ship.

I'm okay with my kids being guinea pigs to improve customer experiences, so long as they dont misplace them.

 

[jjje]

The bracelet does not pinpoint the child's exact location. Nor do they suggest to parents that it does. When you go to pick your child up they scan your card and tell you if your child is in the club or on the lab. This is based on where your child last scanned in. I once went to pick my daughter up at the lab and I was told she was on her way over from the club. I stood there and watched as a cast member walked a group of kids over from the club and had them all "tap in" to the lab. After that I was able to check her out of the lab. That is the extent of how far they are able to track where a kid is.

 

[artemis908]

Wow. So I posted this story on another board (cruise specific) and didn't get half as many responses about it. I didn't even think to look here until someone mentioned that those siding with Disney were die-hard Disney fans from a Disney forum. And here you all are Obviously though, even though many of us here are Disney fans, not everyone is agreeing with the way Disney handled the situation.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Well, I DID say "or some other line".....and why not, that's the first thing DISer's do when excessive drinking is mentioned.

LOL....well you may have noticed I have not(recently).......you explained the short cruise crowd so thats no longer on my issue list


AKK

 

[manhattanman]

The bracelet does not pinpoint the child's exact location. Nor do they suggest to parents that it does. When you go to pick your child up they scan your card and tell you if your child is in the club or on the lab. This is based on where your child last scanned in. I once went to pick my daughter up at the lab and I was told she was on her way over from the club. I stood there and watched as a cast member walked a group of kids over from the club and had them all "tap in" to the lab. After that I was able to check her out of the lab. That is the extent of how far they are able to track where a kid is.

that's not how RFID works. When we picked up our kids on the dream, they could tell us specifically which room they were in ( the computer room etc). I'm not sure it is real time ( or quasi-real time), I think that is is the last detector that recognized the signal because like you, we went to where they were "supposed" to be but they were not so we went back to the front desk, asked them where they were now and went and picked them up ( second time is a charm).

I can assure you, that whatever the detectors are, they are distributed INSIDE the club and are not just at the sole point of entry/egress. that's no different than a turnstile where you have to be buzzed in our out.

 

[MrsScooby]

if they wanted to know whether a kid is in the kids club, a key logger would be more than enough ( slide the KTTW card going in and coming out). That's NOT what the RFID bracelts are for, the bracelet IS intended to pinpoint the childs precise location and I can assure you that Disney DOES market the use of these bracelets to entice security-concerned parents.

The fact that he went around the ship could be due to his belief that the RFID system was working and that one explanation for this sons signal being " unavailable" was that he was no longer in the kids club. The other, obviously, is that he was still in the club but for some reason it wasnt picking up his signal. if its the latter they should address this, that's all i'm saying.


Should he get a full refund, that's not for me to say. but misrepresenting what the intent of the bracelets is ( to either make disney look better or the father worse) does nobody any good.

Personally I'd rather find a thumb in my chilli than the realization that my child is somewhere on a huge ship with thousands of strangers and the people I entrusted to at the very least, corall my kid, have no idea where he or she is. but perhaps that's just me.

I was told previously that DCL makes sure that no child (under 18) is allowed off the ship without their parent. When the KTTW card is swiped a picture comes up along with basic info. That's why the gangplank is not the first place I would run to in a situation like the dad had.

From what I know of the kids clubs, the CMs should have known to explain to the dad how the wrist band works and what the chance was of anyone leaving with his kid (either by accident or on purpose). If they (both Dad and CMs) had looked closer in the club they would have found his son sooner. They obviously didn't look well enough. The CMs made the same mistake in their search that the dad did, but they should know that club better than the dad and known that hiding spots (or sleeping spots) could be an issue. Since we don't have a detailed account from the CMs or non-biased witnesses at the time and the Dad doesn't strike me as non-biased, the only info we have is from other parents that have used the club.
Most parents I have talked to and conversed with are happy with the DCL security.
Hopefully DCL and parents learn from this incident and move on.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

that's not how RFID works. When we picked up our kids on the dream, they could tell us specifically which room they were in ( the computer room etc). I'm not sure it is real time ( or quasi-real time), I think that is is the last detector that recognized the signal because like you, we went to where they were "supposed" to be but they were not so we went back to the front desk, asked them where they were now and went and picked them up ( second time is a charm).

I can assure you, that whatever the detectors are, they are distributed INSIDE the club and are not just at the sole point of entry/egress. that's no different than a turnstile where you have to be buzzed in our out.

OK.so the braclet only works in the clubs/rooms correct? does it sound a warning or alarm if a child tries to leave the club?

AKK

 

[manhattanman]

I was told previously that DCL makes sure that no child (under 18) is allowed off the ship without their parent. When the KTTW card is swiped a picture comes up along with basic info. That's why the gangplank is not the first place I would run to in a situation like the dad had.

I dont blame him for acting irrationally, I'm sure he wasn't thinking rationally. But where are the KTTW concerns when another guest takes your kid into his/her stateroom ? the problem is not that your kid is missing, its that you realize extremely quickly that you are now powerless to protect them. That doesn't mean that every time a kid wanders away from their parents that something bad happens, but its also true that the statistics of these things rapidly become irrelevant when its your kid.

The kid getting off the ship ( however unlikely) is indeed a nightmare but that's not to say that bad things could not have happened to the kid ON the ship either.

 

[manhattanman]

OK.so the braclet only works in the clubs/rooms correct? does it sound a warning or alarm if a child tries to leave the club?

AKK

kids can't leave willy nilly. When you go in they scan the bracelet ( as a measure that you are in there) when you leave they scan it again ( to show you left) then unlock the swinging door. I dont know if there is a button where the CM could open the door without the exit scan or whether the door can only be unlocked with the exit scan.

We had a group of five, and they insisted that the kids be let out by parentage ( 2 then three) as opposed to 5 at once.

 

[threewilmingtonwalls]

that's not how RFID works. When we picked up our kids on the dream, they could tell us specifically which room they were in ( the computer room etc). I'm not sure it is real time ( or quasi-real time), I think that is is the last detector that recognized the signal because like you, we went to where they were "supposed" to be but they were not so we went back to the front desk, asked them where they were now and went and picked them up ( second time is a charm).

I can assure you, that whatever the detectors are, they are distributed INSIDE the club and are not just at the sole point of entry/egress. that's no different than a turnstile where you have to be buzzed in our out.

On the Magic (and I would guess also on the Wonder) they do not tell you where in the Club or Lab your child is. The Dream and Fantasy may be more technologically advanced, but what jjje said about the kids' spaces on Magic is correct.

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